PREVIOUS HOUR

-SCH/PSV-VP/2A/1.00

׻֟ ֟ (֟): ֯ ֮ և ו֋ ִ׸ ֮ ϲֻ ֵ֤ ֮ , ֮ ֕ã֮ ߴ ָ ׻֋ ֟ ׾֬ ֬- ָ پָ֓ ֮ ֤ ӿ֮ ß־ ֮ ־ֿ ׮ִֵ ֮ ֵ , þ֟ , ֬- , ׻֋ ׸ ֵ ׾֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֋х ִ֣Ԯ օ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

ֳ ן־ָ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ֿá ߴ ֻ ׾֬ ֵ ֵ , ָ ֤ߵ ״ן և ׾ָ֓ ׾ָ֓ ֤ ֮ ßן ֣ ׾֬

֮֮ߵ ӡ ֓ ֵ֟ ӛ-ֻ, ӛ-֮, ֲֻ֟ ֻ ֮ ָ ߴ , Ϥ֮ וִָ ֻ ָ 15 ָ ߙ ִ߮ ߴ 7 ָ ߙ ߲ Ù ߴ ָ ֮ ֛ ߴ, ָ ֛ , Ϥ֮ , ך ִ ָ ֛ , ֻ־ֵ, ָ ׻֋ ֮ ֛ ߴ ֡ ֻ ߮ ־ã ־׸ ך ֤ , ָ ӛ-ןֲ֟ , ןֲ֟, ִ ݻ֤, ß֮ פ ߴֆ ָ ָ ָ , ִ ֟ ֮ , ֮ ן ӓֻ֮, ֵ כô , ֻ ך ֻ ך ֮ ָ ߴֆ ִ ׻ֵ օ ߴ ֻ ֚ ֵօ ֵ 1962 ߮ ֻ ֤ ֵ ־ֿ ו ߴ־֟ , ִ ־֮ ֋ ֣ ֣ ֛ ֱ ֛ ֮ ָ և ֟ և ֣ ִִ ָ ָ֬, ֟ ֣ ו ָ ֟פ ָ , -ֻ Ϥ֮ וִָ ߴ ֻ և

֮־ָ, ֕ ו ָ ֤֟ ֚ , ֚-ִ֟ á ףֵָ ִ֟, ֋-֋ ֬׮ ו ָ ֯ ֮ ָ

ֳ֬ ( ϟ֯ ) ߚ߮

ָ֬ ך -- ֻ ֙ ߴ ׮ ֮֟ ָ ָ ך ָ֯׬ ָ , Ӭ (2c/000 ָ ֿ:)

2b/HMS-PB/1.05

ֳ ן־ָ (֟) : ִִ ָ Ӭ ִִ ָ ָ , ָ ߴ ֋, ָ֬ ֻ ֋ ׻֋ ֤ ߴ ֻ ֚ ֵ , ִ ֣--֣ ֋ ףֵָ ֋ ֟ ֵ , ִ , ֮֟ ָ ֻ ֿá ִ , ָ ִ ָ ߴ־֟ ֻ , Ӥ ־֮ , ָ ָ ִ - ߴָ ֤ , ֯ ӲӬ ֮֋ ֮ ִ ֮ ָ ֟ ֮ ߴ־֟ ־ָ ֮ ״ֻ - ָ׬ֵ ״ֻ ֟ ֵ֕ Ϥ֮ , ֟ ֟־ָ ֟-ִ֟ ֻ , ֵ֕, ״ֻ ֟ ָ ׿ֵ֟ ָ ֟ ָ ָ֕ ֮ ־ֿ , ָ ָ ֻ Դָ֤֮ , integrity ֵ֮ Ӥ ־֮ ӟ ֮ օ , , ֯ ִִ ָ ֮֟ ֻ disturb օ ָ ֆ֤ ֛-֛ ˛ ֮ ֋ ֮ ׸ , - , ֮ ָ ָ֬ ֟ , ׻֋ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ֻ ֟ ֛օ ֵ ׻֋ և ָ֮ ֛, ܟ ֛߅ ׻֋ ׬׸ ï™ ׮֤ פ ֮ ָ ֻ ֟ ָ ֤ ֻ ֋, ֮ ֱ֟ ״ֻ߅ ׻֋ ־֮֬ ־֮֬ ֣--֣ ׮ֵ׌ֵ ־֮֬ ֟ ֻ ָ ״ֻ , ״ֻ ָ ־֮֬ ־֮Դ ָ״ֿ֮ ָ ֤ ״ֻ , ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ָ ֱ ָ֮ ־ֿ ׻֋ ֵ֮ ֮֬ ֲֻ ֋ ֮ ־ֿ خ ֬׮--֬׮ ףֵָ ֋ ֣-֣ ׻֋ ָ ִ ָ߲ ָ ֲ֤ ׸ ִֵ ֮ ֺ ֣ ׻ ן ׾ ֟ ™ָ֓ ָ֬ ֵ֕ ״ֻ ֟ , ָ ׸ 000 ֋ פ ָ ֤ ֲִֵ ״ֻ߅ ׾֬ ־֮֬ ߴ ֻ ׮ֵӡ ӓֻ֮ ֯ ָ , ָ ָ֕ ִ֟ ֤ ׾֬ ֿ ֣ ִ֣Ԯ ָ ָ֕ ֮ ־ֿ ֯ ׬--׬ ֬׮ ϳ־ ֮֋ ֳ ֮ ֛ ֤ ֻ ָ ֛ ָ֯׬ ן׾׬ֵ , ָ ߴ־֟ Ӥ ֟ , , ָ֯׬ ן׾׬ֵ ָ և

ֲ ֣, ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ ֮ ã֮

(ִ֯)

(2 /֕ ָ )

2c/1.10/skc

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (WEST BENGAL): Sir, we support this Sashastra Seema Bal Bill, 2006. The Standing Committee had discussed the Bill elaborately and made certain recommendations. The hon. Minister has also made certain comments about those recommendations. It is based on that actually that our Party supports this Bill. We all know that the Sashastra Seema Bal is charged with guarding of Indo-Nepal and Indo-Bhutan borders and it seeks to ensure that the standards of efficiency and discipline of the force are of high order. Sir, the Special Service Bureau was changed to Sashastra Seema Bal with effect from 27th March, 2004. But I would like to point out one thing here once again and that is that the Padmanabhaiah Committee made a recommendation for the organisation's motivational role for security preparedness in border areas and they laid emphasis on it so that the SSB enjoyed goodwill and popular support in the border areas. This point had also come up before the Standing Committee; and this special role of our border security should be given high importance. I want the hon. Minister to let us know the position on this particular point. The Home Secretary had agreed on this point before the Standing Committee. So, I would be glad if the hon. Minister could let us know how the Ministry is working on this aspect of the matter and lay emphasis on this point while replying to the debate. The civic action programme, the national awareness and security consciousness of the border people and such aspects should be given greater importance.

Now, one point was discussed in the Standing Committee and that was that there are different kinds of BGF working in our country in the name of Border Security Force and in other names also on the Indo-Tibetan border and their duties are almost the same, their functions are also almost the same. So, why can't we have one common BGF? This point was discussed. In the Standing Committee, the officials also placed their views and their argument was that the sensitivity of different border stretches is different. They had also added that cadre management is also very important. That is why these forces functioned in that manner. So, I want the hon. Minister to explain these aspects also.

So far as the term 'enemy' is concerned, the Committee also made its recommendations that a more comprehensive definition bringing persons involved in illegal and other such activities within its ambit should be there. The Committee had made such a recommendation. (Contd. by 2d/hk)

HK-AKA/2d/1.15

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (CONTD.): Lastly, I would like to point it out here that Dr. Karan Singh has referred to the Maoists issue here. We know that 32 Naxalite-Maoist factions are working in the country. Our party's position is very clear that they should leave the arms and join the mainstream. So far as Nepal Maoists are concerned, they have joined in the mainstream. That is our position so far as the Maoists are concerned. In our country, in Bihar, in Jharkhand, in West Bengal and in some border areas of Andhra, we know that regular attacks are going on weakening the national position. So, this is our position so far as the Maoists are concerned. With these observations, we support the Bill. Thank you. (Ends)

0 ִ ӛָ (ײָ) : ֮־ָ, ֮ ֣ ֮ ֙ 'ֿá ߴ ֻ ׾֬, 2006' ִ֣Ԯ ׻֋ ֛

, ָ ײָ ֟ ָ-ֻ ߴ ָ ָ , ׻֋ ߴ ָ ן׾׬ֵ , ָ֮ ״ֻ֟ , ִָ֓ ֡ ׻׾֮֕ ִ֬ ָ֮ ֟ -߮ ָ ךև, ֮ ־ ָ֬ ָ ֟ , ߴ ָ 800 ߙ ָ-ֻ ߴ ײֻ ׻֋ ôݻ, ֛ ֮ ָ ָ, ֻ ״ֻ֮ , և ֤ ָ ֟ ָ ״ֻ֮ և ֤ ֻ ֻ ֟ ߴ ָ ֤֟ ָև , ֆפ ָ ֓ , ָ ֙ ֤, ֳ ֤ , ָ ֻ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֳָ ׾ֿ ־ã , ָ-ֻ ߴ ָ ָ-֮ ߴ ָ ߴ ֿá ֻ ־ֿ , ָ ֻ ָ-ֻ ߴ ָ ֓ օ ו ׾ֿ , ӡֵֻ ӟԟ ֮ ֤ ӡ ײֻ ִ֬ ߴ ֿá ֻ ֟ ֮֜ ׻֋ ִ ֮ ßָ , ׻֋ ײֻ ־֮֬

, ߴ ָ ֻ ִ ך ֛ ־ֲ֤ ߴ ֻ , ߴ ָ ִ ߅ ׻֋ ׮׿֟ ֟ ִ ֮ ־֮ ßָ ֳ ߴ ָ Ӿ , Ӿ ֣, ׮־ֵ ֣ ֤ ӲӬ ֮֋ ֮ ־ֲ֤ ('2e/nb' ָ ָ)

NB/KSK/2E/1.20

. ִ ӛָ (֟) : ֳ֬ , ָ ָ ׿ֵ֟ և - ֳ Ӿ ֟ , ִ - Ӿ - ߴ ָ Ӿ , ׮־ֵ ֣ ־ָ ָ ׻ ׿ֵ֟ ֟ ֲ ֮ ֟ , ׿ֵ֟ , - ׿ֵ֟ ߴ ָ ֲ ֻ ׮ֵ׌ , ֤ ֻ ָ ֲָ ֻ ׮ֵ׌ ֤ ׮׿֟ crime smuggling ׻֋ ֻ ־ֿ ׮׿֟ ֻ ָ ׮ָ֮ ־ֿ ֲ ֛ ֤׬ָ , ָ -ָ ׮ָ֮ ֻ ־ֲ֤ և , ָ ֻ ִ , ׮ָ֮

ֳ֬ , ֿ ׾ ֻ ׮ֵ׌ ֤ ߴֆ ָ ָ ִõ֋ , ו֮ ֤ ֮ ™ , ִ ߅ ָ-ֻ ָ ֟ ֳ ֬ "֬" , "֬" ֲֻ֟ ָߵ ׯ֔ ߮ ָ֟ ׾ֹ ֟ ֵԾ ֻ ׮־ ֆ֤ , "ֵ֬" ָ ׻֋ ָָ ֮֕ן ßָ ָ ִõ ִ֮֬ ֋, ָ֮ , ײ ֻ ֲ֤ և ִ ֬ "֬" ֕ , ԕ, ֤-ָ֤ ֋ ֲ ֣ ֻ ٣ ̲֕ ֮֮ ֛ ָ ֤֮ ִו -״ֻ ֋ ָ פ ָ ֻ , ֻ ֵ ֋, ֛ ִõ , ו ָָ ֮ ™ ִֻ ߴ ָ ֻ ׮ֵ׌ և , ־ֲ֤ ֮֟ ָ ߴ ֤ ֟ , ָ ֋ ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ , ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)


KUMAR DEEPAK DAS (ASSAM): Sir, in support of the Bill, I would like to speak only two lines. In 1963, the Special Service Bureau was raised in the name of SSB. On 27.03.2004, this name was changed to Sashastra Seema Bal. (continued by 2f - gsp)

GSP-VNK/1.25/2F

KUMAR DEEPAK DAS (CONTD.): Sir, at the time of Chinese aggression, this SSB was formed. I remember, during my school days, these SSB people used to train us with respect to self-protection and also to fight against crimes including bomb-attacks. Whether this force will take up the same job in our Border States. That is my question, which I would like to be clarified by the hon. Home Minister.

Sir, in our country, particularly, in the North-Eastern States, it will definitely be more effective to fight with the growing terrorism and stop such activities alongwith protection of the borders.

Sir, alongwith this cross-border terrorism, unlawful cross-border activities are also going on. At the Indo-Nepal and the Indo-Bhutan border, many illegal activities like smuggling are going on. So, I request the hon. Minister to pay attention on such a problem in our States and protect the borders as well as the people of the States. (Interruptions)

.(ߴ֟) ִ֕ . ֟㻻 : ָ, ֮֯ announce ӓ ..(־֮֬)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI UDAY PRATAP SINGH): It has already been decided..(Interruptions)..

DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA: Sir, I am sorry to say that I have to get up and point out about the procedure that has to be followed. A decision taken in the Chamber has to be announced in the House. If the decision was taken that due to some important business in the House, we would not be going to have the lunch-break, then, at least, inform the Members about it, and, then, take the sense of the House. We have no objection. We are not hungry. That is not the point. Yesterday also, I mentioned that the procedure of the House has to be followed, however, everybody agreed not to have lunch. Surely, everybody will have lunch but not the lunch hour.

ֳ֬ ( ϟ֯ ) : ׻֋ ..(־֮֬).. ״֮֙, ֯ ׳ִ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: There were hardly one or two Members speaking on this..(Interruptions)....

DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA: That is not the point, Sir. You don't have lunch. You may go after it is over. (Interruptions) I am only trying to bring in the procedure. Sir, you had been the Speaker of Lok Sabha. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Madam, when you were the Deputy Chairman...(Interruptions)...have been reminding...(Interruptions)...

DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA A. HEPTULLA: No, Sir. Not only as a Deputy Chairman, as a Member also, I had said. More so, the former Speaker of Lok Sabha is with us. He will agree with me. That is the only thing.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: You are right, Madam.

KUMAR DEEPAK DAS: Sir, I don't want to say anything more on this issue. With these words, I support the Bill. Thank you.

(Ends)

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (RAJASTHAN): Thank you, Sir, for the kind indulgence. A new feather has been added to the resplendent cap of hon. Home Minister by formally giving a new name to this old organisation of 44 years vintage. He has already Central Armed Forces under his tutelage, CRPF being the oldest one, BSF, ITBP, CISF and Assam Rifles. It is understandable that functions in general will be merely same of any Central Armed Force except that their postings will be at different places and for different purposes. (Contd. by sk-2g)

S/2G/1.30

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): This Bill is very well drafted for which the hon. Home Minister deserves kudos and congratulations. I wish the other Central armed police organisations also got the benefit of this Bill in redrafting or restructuring their old structure. However, as far as this organisation is concerned, as has been already pointed out, it was a bureau earlier, with a very special intention and purpose. Now, it is not a bureau; it is an armed force now. Character has been definitely changed. As it was pointed out earlier, it was a kind of collection of intelligence, espionage, counter espionage, preparing self-defence groups. It was the same kind of covered organisation as is usually under Intelligence Bureau or other bureaus. Now, it is an open organisation with an armed structure, with a very specific duty, with a very new role of border guarding force of two borders, Indo-Nepal and Indo-Bhutan. As has been very well pointed out by hon. Members, these international borders are very important for us. They are very sensitive for us also. But, unfortunately, they are porous and because of their being porous, they are open to infiltration, smuggling, terrorist activities, etc., because, as the hon. Home Minister knows so well, criminals respect no international borders. So, cross border anti-national activities shall have to be very specifically watched and cared for by this new organisation. It shall have to act as a watchdog for guarding these two very sensitive borders. As has been rightly pointed out by another hon. Member, as this is the latest new armed unit, its training, its equipment, its arms are expected to be of better order than the earlier ones, and, I am sure, the hon. Home Minister will ensure that. It need not be emphasised that along with armed posture, this new force has to keep a friendly face with border villages and amicable relations have to be developed with them because without that, a border cannot be guarded. No armed force can guard a border without the help of people living on that border and without those people having patriotic sentiments for the security of the nation.

I will like to sound a word of caution, Sir, on two or three points. One is the rate of attrition. Somehow, it has to be secured that rate of attrition in this new force is not as bad as it is in old forces. I am sure that the hon. Home Minister is aware that nearly 41,000 border security force personnel, one in five in the 2.09 lakh force, have quit their jobs over the last 30 months. It is a matter of very serious concern and, I think, the whole House will take cognisance of that. Within 30 months, 41,000 trained personnel of BSF have quit their jobs. (Contd. by 2H)

-SK/YSR/1.35/2H

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): There must be something which troubles them. It can be their prolonged duties. Most of the time they are away from their families. They are not having quarters for their families or other kinds of comforts. They face difficulty in getting leave from office. This attrition is not peculiar only to the BSF.

Out of these personnel who quit the job, 7000 men were deployed along the Indo-Pakistan Border and the Indo-Bangladesh Border. They put in their papers in the first half of 2007. Nearly 16,200 quit in 2006 and more than 17,000 in 2005. It was not peculiar for one year. A trend has been set and it has to be looked into why it is there. And, primarily, those who quit were constabulary who spent prime of their life at the border. The annual attrition rate is 8 per cent. I am quoting from statistics. But the BSF personnel are not the only personnel affected by that.

My concern is that this infection should not spread to the new force which you have now renamed and which you are bringing up through a new legislation. Nearly 2000 personnel quit the CRFs. It is a force of 2.48 lakh personnel. It is the oldest vintage force of your armed organisations. Nearly 1,500 personnel quit the Assam Rifles. Nearly 1,000 personnel quit the Central Industrial Security Force.

More alarming is the suicide rate in the BSF which is three times higher than the Army. Last year, 41 BSF personnel committed suicide. Suicide rate in the BSF is 20.5 per lakh against 6.6 per lakh in the Army. Why is it so? It is for you to look into it. But it is a matter of alarm.

Obviously, as I am able to visualise, our security forces have had enough of tough life, long periods away from home and few rewards. They are not satisfied with the role they are playing. This infection should not spread to the new force which you are raising. I thought I would bring this fact to your notice. You may already be aware of it. What is the tension which is eating into them?

In this beautifully drafted Bill, you have put so many restrictions. One restriction is about the right to form associations which is a fundamental right given in the Constitution. We are denying it to our Armed Forces. It is freedom of speech.

You may be aware, Sir, that a mutiny took place in certain armed forces of States as well as Central Armed Forces. And it was with a very great difficulty that the nation was able to get over it. One commandant of Punjab Armed Constabulary was shot dead by his own people in Uttar Pradesh. It was because too many restrictions were there. It was because their voice was throttled. It was because their grievances were not redressed. And it was because officers mal-treated their constabulary. Constable and Head Constable consist of 90 per cent of any force, and rest are officers. I just want to emphasise the point that there must be a proper redressal grievance forum for them and they should be permitted to form their welfare societies which are there in all armed wings and other wings of State services. They may not form a kind of trade union. There is a difference between a trade union and a welfare association. (Contd. by VKK/2J)

-YSR/VKK-MCM/2j/1.40

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD): That should be there. I think, there may be some kind of thinking on this line and may be, already, some kind of mechanism is there. But, it needs very special care because as I said, Sir, " ָ ֮֯ פ ־֕ ֋, ߻ פ ־֕ ֋ ֤ ֮ , ߻ օ"

So, that medium is to be taken care of because already we have suffered in our country because of revolt or mutiny. There is a clause of mutiny here. I didn't like this word 'mutiny' being used in our armed organisations. It is not a very happy nomenclature. That is what I was feeling. I have not talked about incidents of fragging. I have talked about suicides; I have talked about attrition. Fragging is there which is a matter of very serious concern. Fragging means a person of the same organisation killing his brother officer or brother colleague -- BSF man, with rifle, killing his own commandant or CRPF man killing his own colleague. That is fragging. It is taking place at a higher pitch in Central paramilitary forces than in the Army. There is something wrong somewhere. What it is, that has to be looked after.

Tension, no leave, inhuman treatment, etc. have to be taken care of. Last, but not the least, is, there is a Maoists threat which is very obvious across Indo-Nepal border. It has to be specially taken care of by this force which is meant exclusively for Indo-Nepal border and Indo-Bhutan border. Prof. Bhandary has very rightly and very pertinently pointed out the plight of the Madheshis. I mean, there is a genocide. There is a kind of ָָ going on. It may not be relevant for this issue, but, it is something which needs attention. When we got an opportunity, we thought, we may mention it to you. More than 90 lakh Madheshis are there who have put their blood and sweat to bring Nepal up economically, agriculturally and industrially. And, today, they are being butchered; they are being persecuted; and, they are running across the border. I think, the hon. Home Minister is aware of the problem and he will find some kind of refuge for them. They deserve it, hon. Minister. I think, I have taken enough of your time. I have no pretension to teach things or to tell new lessons to the hon. Home Minister. He is so well versed in his portfolio. I just wanted to make certain submissions which are there. Sir, I congratulate him for bringing forward a comprehensive and well-drafted Bill. But, at times, way to hell is paved with the best intentions. Let us take care that this organisation becomes the best organisation out of all the Central Police Armed Organisations which are under his kind care. Let it be the best feather in his cap. Sir, I wish him the best of speed and the best of time. Thank you for your indulgence and bearing with me for so long. Thanks to the Chair for his kindness.

(Ends)

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (GOA): Sir, I stand here to support the Sashastra Seema Bal Bill, 2006. Sir, there are about 156 sections in this Bill, which are quite exhaustive. We, at this stage, need not dwell into each of the clauses. Let us see the working of this legislation and only when some difficulties may arise, we may venture into suggestions or amendments at a future date. I would like to make a few broad suggestions at this stage. (Contd. by RSS/2k)

RSS/2K/1.45/

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD.): Sir, we are aware that our Armed Forces and Paramilitary Forces remain awake so that we get sound sleep. Tears came down in Jawaharlal's eyes when he heard Lata Mangeshkar singing " ֤ , ָ ֋" This is the sense of patriotism and feelings we have towards our Armed Forces. Sir, just as sometimes we feel bad if we don't get an opportunity to speak in Parliament or to ask a supplementary, similarly, our Armed Forces also get hurt when they don't get an opportunity to face bullets of the enemies. This is the type of patriotism they have. We only say that we do not get a chance to speak, but they would like to venture into dangerous zones and face bullets. If they don't get a chance, they feel sometimes hurt. Sir, it is a good thing that in recent times, people from the film industry, actors and actresses, have been going to the borders and trying to entertain them. It is a good venture that our film industry is having, and many times, it has been seen that this interaction has brought some sort of solace on their faces. But I would like to say that despite all these things, the Armed Forces or the Paramilitary Forces are supposed to face any given situation, that is, to go to the borders and protect us. But it is our duty, duty of the politicians, duty of the Government that we do not unduly expose our Armed Forces to aggression. It had happened during the Kargil war because of the failure of the then Government that we could not visualise the Kargil situation. When Vajpayeeji was riding a bus, the Kargil war was very much happening. The Government did not know about it. When Vajpayeeji was in Arunachal Pradesh, intrusion of the Chinese was already there in Arunachal Pradesh. When Vajpayeeji was in China, intrusion of the Chinese was there in Arunachal Pradesh. So, Sir, the Government has to be awakened all the time so that the Army or the paramilitary forces are not exposed unnecessarily on account of our failures. Now, Sir, in view of the Pakistani scenario, the Government has rightly kept the Army on alert during all these developments. And even now, when Musharraf is giving up uniform, and installing another Chief of the Army, he may try to do something across the border and put the blame on the Chief of the Army saying that he was not knowing about it, it was done by the Army, or otherwise, to scuttle the democratic process also, Pakistan may venture into something for which again, we have to be quite alert. The Forces are supposed to protect Nepal and Burma border also. But, may I ask whether protecting our borders in a particular area means only physically standing there on the borders? Is it not our duty to see what is happening in Burma? It is only when we create an atmosphere there that there will be less incursion, whether by the Forces or otherwise. Therefore, physically standing on the borders may not necessarily give results. We have to see what is happening in Burma and we have to play our role to see that the democratic rights of the people of Burma are established so that we do not face problems on our borders.

(contd. by 2l)

-RSS-TMV-ASC/2L/1.50

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD.): As far as the jurisdiction of the court in a matter decided by the court of the Armed Forces is concerned, how far are we going to allow normal courts to interfere with the decision-making process of a different hierarchic system which we established under an Act? Earlier the decisions, whatever it be, which were given by the Court Martial Authorities were not questioned in a court of law. In recent times, the courts have started to interfere and there is no judgement of a Court Martial Authority of the Armed Forces which is questioned in a court of law. If the same situation is going to arise in this case also, there will be difficulty. There are so many hierarchies of courts here. In each case, if the decisions are challenged in a court of law, there will be no end to it and it will not be conducive to maintaining discipline in these Forces.

Another point that I would like to rise is not directly related to this legislation itself. As far as unified command is concerned, we have got a unified command. It was considered not desirable to have a unified command. Our predecessor Governments had wisely not opted for a unified command. But thereafter the Government has a unified command. I would like to know whether the Home Ministry has got any information whether the unified command is going to be disbanded. In fact, I feel that there should not be any unified command among our Armed Forces.

As far as transportation of Paramilitary Forces and Armed Forces is concerned, their transportation is an important matter of concern. You must have heard, Sir, that there were conflicts between the civilians and the people from Paramilitary Forces while travelling in the trains. There are conflicts and fights in the railway stations. Therefore, I would suggest that, as far as possible, separate bogies should be attached for the transportation of the Armed Forces. I know that there are arrangements. But still they are not sufficient. There should be sufficient separate bogies for transportation of the Armed Forces from place to another.

Secondly, now the airlines have become very cheaper and, I think, the Forces can travel from one place to another by airlines, of which the fares are not much more than 2nd AC or 3rd AC. Therefore, this option should also be explored.

Another aspect is relating to the communication system. Earlier members of the Armed Forces hardly used to have any mode of communication with their family members. They used to write letters and the letter used to reach their houses after 15 or 20 days; and there was joy in the family when they received the letters, etc. Now, on account of the improvements in the communication system, the Armed Forces can access their family members easily. I think, there is further scope for improvement on this aspect. I would suggest that there should be visual communication between the members of the Armed Forces and their families. Video communication between the members of the Armed Forces and their families should be allowed, from time to time, so that they can see their family members in their houses on the video system. This will give them a feeling that they have gone to their houses, met their children and other family members.

Another aspect which I would like to mention is that we should try to avoid corruption. In many departments of the Armed Forces, especially in the purchase of commodities and food items, we find that several cases of corruption are going on. They should be minimized because the image of the Armed Forces--it is not a question of corruption only--among the civilized society gets tarnished. We see them in a different light and this should not happen.

(Contd. by VK/2M)

VK/2M/1.55

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD): Lastly, I would like to stress, as has already been stressed by many hon. Members from time to time, that we should try to use the services of the Armed Forces and Paramilitary Forces for the purpose of controlling law and order situation to a minimum extent because when the Armed Forces or the Paramilitary Forces wield lathis or arms, it is the civilian society which accuses them. The civilian society accusing the members of the Armed Forces is not a healthy thing. Therefore, to keep them away from accusations by the civilian society, we should see to it that the services of the Armed Forces are used very rarely to control the law and order situation. Thank you. (Ends)

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFARIS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Sir, I would like to start my statement by saluting in the memory of the martyrs who have laid down their lives while guarding our borders. I would also like to thank the hon. Members who are present in the House because their presence indicates their support to this Bill. Definitely, I would like to thank the other hon. Members who have spoken and supported this Bill. Almost all the Members who have spoken, have supported this Bill. This Bill provides for the constitution of the Force and the conditions of services of the members of the Force. It provides for the offences, punishments, deductions from pay and allowances, arrests and proceedings before trial, procedures of code, confirmation, revision of proceedings, execution of sentences, pardon and remissions. This Bill will become a law and will help the Force to function in a manner in which other Forces are working. The

BSF was created by a statute. The CRPF was also created by a statute. Other Forces, like the ITBP, the Assam Rifles also have statutes. Now, this Force also will have a statute and it would be helpful to see that this Force functions in a proper manner.

Sir, there are a few points which have been raised by the hon. Members. One of the points raised is, why should we have many border forces. We have the BSF, the Sashastra Seema Bal, the ITBP, the Assam Rifles and then the CRPF, the CISF and the NSG. Out of these forces, only the BSF, the SSB, the ITBP and some men and officers of the Assam Rifles are guarding our borders. Our borders are very long. It is not realised that a very long area of more than 7,000 kilometres has to be guarded. One of the most important things is that this border is in the Himalayan region. These are very, very difficult areas. It is not easy to live in these areas and remain their during winter, when there is not even a blade of grass or not even a tree standing over there. (Contd. by 2N)

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