PREVIOUS HOUR

MKS-PSV/4.00/3N

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA):

Clauses 21 to 25 were added to the Bill.

Clause 26: Amendment of section 27A

 

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: In clause 26, there are 5 amendments.

Amendments (No. 12 and 13) by the hon. Minister.

Amendment (No. 22) by Shri Tapan Kumar Sen.

Amendment (No. 32) by Shri Tiruchi Siva.

Amendment (N0. 34) by Shri M.V. Mysura Reddy.

SHRI ASHWANI KUMAR: Sir, I beg to move:

(12) That at page 9, for lines 40 to 42, the following be substituted, namely:-

"(b)" a senior technical officer conversant with the inspection and

examination of boilers, to be nominated by the Government

of each State (other than a Union Territory);"

 

(13) That at page 10 for line 1, the following be substituted, namely:-

"(c) equal number of other persons as in sub-section (b) above

to represent-"

 

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Amendment (No. 22) by Shri Tapan Kumar Sen.

Are you moving it?


SHRI TAPAN KUMAR SEN: No, Sir.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Amendment (No.32) by Shri Tiruchi Siva. Are you moving it?

SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA: No, Sir.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Amendment (No.34) by Shri Mysura Reddy. Are you moving it?

SHRI M.V. MYSURA REDDY: Sir, I move:

(34)                   That in the list of amendments dated the 14th November, 2007

Amendment number 13 be deleted.

 

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, I shall first put Amendments (No. 12 and

13) moved by the hon. Minister to vote.

 

The questions were put and the motions were adopted.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I shall now put the amendment (No. 34) moved by Shri M.V. Mysura Reddy to vote.

The Amendment( No. 34) was negatived.

Clause 26, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clauses 27 to 31, were added to the Bill.

Clause 32: Amendment of section 34

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up Clause 32. In clause 32, there is one amendment by the hon. Minister.

SHRI ASHWANI KUMAR: Sir, I beg to move:

14      That at page 12, for lines 8 to 14, the following be substituted, namely:-

'32. In section 34 of the principal Act, for sub-section (3), the following

shall be substituted, namely:-

"(3) If the State Government is satisfied that having regard to the

material, design or construction of boilers and to the need for the

rapid industrialization of the country, it is necessary so to do, it may,

by notification in the Official Gazette and subject to such conditions as

may be prescribed by regulations, exempt any boiler or boiler

components in the whole or any part of the State from the operation

of all or any of the provisions of this Act."'

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 32, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clause 1: Short title and commencement

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up Clause 1. In Clause 1, there is one amendment No.2 by the hon. Minister.

SHRI ASHWANI KUMAR: Sir, I move:

(2)    That at page 1, line 3, for the figure "1994" the figure "2007"

be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted

. Clause 1, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Enacting Formula

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I shall take up the Enacting Formula. In the Enacting formula, there is one amendment by the hon. Minister.

SHRI ASHWANI KUMAR: Sir, I move:

(3)  That at page 1, line 1, for the word "Forty-fifth" the word "Fifty-eighth"

be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

The Enacting Formula, as amended was added

to the Bill.

The Title was added to the Bill.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, Mr. Minister.


SHRI ASHWINI KUMAR: Sir, I move:

That the Bill, as amended, be passed.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

(Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, we will take up the Indira Gandhi National Tribal University Bill. ...(Interruptions)...

ֵ ֺ : ֳ֬ , ־ã Ͽ , ׯ֔ פ ְָ () ײֻ 000 ؙ ײֻ 18 ֲ , ֵә Ӳָ 28 , ִ ׻ - ײֻօ

"The Business Advisory Committee's usual practice is to consider only those

Bills which have been recommended by the Business Advisory Committee." ײֻ ׸ ֵ , ׻֋ ײֻ ָ ֓ ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: The Chairman has got the right. ...(Interruptions)...

ֵ ֺ : , ָ ...(־֮֬)... ֻ֟ ָָ ֟ ֋ ...(־֮֬)... ֻ֟ ָָ ֟ ֋, ...(־֮֬)...

֚ : ־ã ־ֻ ...(־֮֬)... ָ, ־ã ־ֻ ...(־֮֬)... ְָ () ײֻ ߮ פ ...(־֮֬)...

(3/000 ָ )

 

 

 

-MKS-TMV-KLG/3O/4.05

0 ִ ӛָ : ָ, ޙ ײֻ ֮֕ןֵ ׻֋ ׮־֙ ײֻ ...(־֮֬)

ֵ ֺ : ޙ ײֻ , ָ ֵ ..(־֮֬)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Are you opposing the Bill? (Interruptions)... Are you opposing the Bill? (Interruptions)... Then, why don't we discuss the Bill? (Interruptions)...

ֳ֬ ( ӟ ֛פ) : ֯ , ֟ ӡ ֯ ו֋ ..(־֮֬)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: It is for the Tribal people in the tribal areas. (Interruptions)...

ֵ ֺ : ֲ ָָ , ײֻ ֟ ָ , ָ ..(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ : ֯ ӡ ֟ ֮ ו֋ ..(־֮֬) ... , ֯ , ָ ֲ ֟ ׮Ե օ ...(־֮֬)

֚ : , ֻ֟ ־ã ֻ ֋ ..(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ : ֻ֟ ִ , ֯ ׮׿ӓ֟ ..(־֮֬)

ֵ ֺ : ָָ ײֻ ֟ , ֳ ײֻ ֯ , ׯ֔ ߮ פ ޛ ְ () ײֻ ֕ ָ Ӳָ ָ פ ֵ ..(־֮֬)

0 ִ ӛָ : ֯ Ù ֟ , ևֻ ܵ ׬ ׻֋ ײֻ ו֋ ׸ և ..(־֮֬)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: It is for the Tribal people in the tribal areas. (Interruptions)...

ֵ ֺ : , ևֻ ֟ ֯ ֟֋Ӆ ִ ևֻ ָ ָ֓ , ָ ֓ ֻ ..(־֮֬).. ֳ ײֻ ֯ ֯ ײֻ ָ ֓ , ׮ִֵ ..(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ ( ӟ ֛פ) : ֯ ֮ ֯ ֯ ֟ ꅠ (The Vice-Chairman) Do you want me to give my ruling or do you want to continue to talk? ֮֯ פ? ֮ ? ֯ ־ã ֟ ײֻ , ׻֋ ײֻ " ְ () ײֻ, 2007" Shri Praful Patel is to move a motion for consideration of the Aircraft (Amendment) Bill, 2007.

THE AIRCRAFT (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007.

THE MINISTER OF STATE (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) OF THE MINISTRY OF CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI PRAFUL PATEL): Sir, I beg to move:

That the Bill further to amend the Aircraft Act, 1934, as passed by

Lok Sabha, be taken into consideration.

(THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN) IN THE CHAIR.)

Sir, the Aircraft Act, 1934 has been sought to be amended and this Amendment has been passed by the Lok Sabha earlier. The entire aviation scenario has undergone a major change and the situation, as it exists today, is far, far different and dynamic than what it was when this Act was passed in 1934. Of course, amendments have been taking place, from time to time. There is also an issue that our legislation should also be compatible with the legislation passed in different countries because the aviation transcends borders, and any legislation will have to be effective and it will have to be in tune with the international practices as adopted by the....


THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN): Mr. Sen, please sit down.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: ... Charter of the International Civil Aviation Organisation. Therefore, many member-countries have also brought up this issue and it has also been brought up in the various meetings of the International Civil Aviation Organisation, and to bring more parity with the legislation which is available across the entire world, our Aircraft Act, 1934 is sought to be amended to some extent.

Broadly, before the hon. Members would like to participate, I would like to say that the key aspect behind this Amendment is to bring in more safety and security control by giving more powers to the regulatory framework to be able to, basically, licence the people who are engaging in civil aviation activities. Even our airports were not earlier licensed because it was all arising out of the function of the regulatory authority. It was known as the Director-General of Civil Aviation, coordinating the entire activities connected with aviation, including running of airports. Then, it became the Airports Authority. We had the National Airports Authority and the International Airports Authority. It became the Airports Authority. Now, we also have a situation where it is not the Airports Authority alone which is doing the function of running airports; we have private airports and we have joint venture airports; and the scope of these activities is going to keep on increasing more and more in the future. So, we definitely feel that a more comprehensive legislation, which will confer more powers on the regulatory framework, especially, in the licensing of airports; licensing of personnel engaged in air traffic control; certification, inspection and regulation of communication, navigation and air surveillance; and air traffic management facilities. (Contd. by VK/3P)

VK-AKA/3p/4.10

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (CONTD): Also, in a way, we find that the existing power of the DGCA to issue directions needs to be enlarged, especially in the field of aircraft operations, air traffic control and maintenance, operations, as I said, of aerodromes, communication, navigation, surveillance and air traffic management. Also many a time, we find that bird hits are taking place which is being commonly reported and which is a concern to the safety of aircraft and to the people travelling in those aircraft. There is a prohibition of slaughtering and plying of animals within a radius of 10 kilometres. Right now there is no power or regulatory framework to bring all these activities within the framework of the Aircraft Act. These are a couple of things. Then the safety oversight functions of the DGCA also need to be enlarged further. Then there is a need to bring in certain provisions to make violation punishable because right now there are very limited powers and there are very few offences which are actually punishable and the extent of fine or the kind of penalty is very, very limited. As I said, since aviation transcends borders, aircraft of one country flying to another country and vice versa and we have foreign registered aircraft coming into India, our regulatory framework must also permit that we can exercise certain powers and certain effective controls so that aviation in our country and for the people who fly from our country is also equally safe and conform to certain standards because each State has its own regulatory framework. Therefore, when an aircraft flies into India, though technically it is being monitored by that regulatory framework, but ultimately it is landing on our shores and carrying passengers to and fro India, so we have to have certain kind of overriding power to be able to regulate the activities of these foreign registered aircraft also. These are broad parameters on which we are seeking an amendment to the Aircraft Act, 1934, first and foremost, to make flying more safer to be able to handle the higher and increasing volume of traffic; and also to be able to have certain overriding powers to, in a way, effectively check licensing and control over the overall aviation activities. This is the motive behind this amendment. Therefore, I request the House to take this Bill into consideration.

The question was proposed.

ֵ ֺ (ָӛ) : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֮֯ ֵ֮ (ӿ֮) ׾֬, 2007 ָ ֮ ׾ָ֓ ֌ ָ פ, ֲ ׻֋ ֯ ֳָ ןֵ֯ ־ ֮ ؓ֟ֆ ֣, ו֮ ו , ӿ֮ ׾֬ ִ֣Ԯ

, ӡ ӿ֮ ׾֬ , ׾֬ ֟ 7 ß, 2006 ֳ ß ֵ , ו ֤ ֤ߵ ãֵ ״ן פ ֵօ ֤ߵ ãֵ ״ן ֤ ִ׮֟ ֤õ, ߟִָ ײֻ ֵ֟ ־ֿ ִ֟ ׾֬ ֳ , וִ ׾ֻ ׾֋֮ ״׮Ù ׬ָ, ֮ ӡֵֻ ׬ָ, ָ ׸ כ ׬ָ Ù 껛 - ָ כ, כ֮ ָև, ָ, ױָ ָև, DGCA ֣ ָ ׸ և ֋֮ ן׮׬ֵ ֓ ߅ ('3q/nb' ָ ָ)

NB/RG/3Q/4.15

ֵ ֺ (֟) : ֓ ֤ ãֵ ״ן ֓ ׸ օ ׸ ӿ֮ և, ִ ãֵ ״ן י , ãֵ ״ן -

"The Committee feels that no proper thinking has gone into the preparation of the Bill, and that it is a hastily drafted Bill. The Committee strongly feels that it is a piecemeal legislation, and, therefore, it urges upon the Government to carefully consider all the points mentioned and recommends that the Government should come up with a comprehensive legislation incorporating all the suggestions made in the proceedings and paragraphs of the Report and covering all the issues concerning our civil aviation sector."

recommendations , ָ ӡ ֟ ָ : ׾֬ ֳ 10 ֟Ӳָ, 2007 , ֯ ӿ֮ ׾֬ ֲ ֳ ß ֵ, פ ײֻ ֳ ײ֮ ֓ ׸ ֵօ

ֳ֬ , ָ ׾ֻ ׾ֵ֮ ן ֮ ֕ 95 ֮ 1912 ֮ ֓ פ ׻֋ ָ 95 ֤ ֕ ו֮֟ ן , ֮ ן ֵ֤ ߅ ֕ ֲ ָ ׾ 9 ןֿ֟, 10 ןֿ֟ ֟֟ , ׾ֻ ׾ֵ֮ ׾ ׯ֔ 20 30 ןֿ֟ և ׾ֻ ׾ֵ֮ וִ ֟ , ֡ ֟ , ִ סֵ ܵ ן ߲ 50 ןֿ֟ ר ָ 滵 ָ֬ ָ , ָ ו֮֟ ׮ֵԟ , 滵 ָ֬ ָ ו֮֟ ׿ ׮ֵԟ , 35 ןֿ֟ ֵ֮ ִ֬ ׮ֵԟ ָ ו֮֟ ׾֤ ֵԙ ֟ , ִ 97 ןֿ֟ ֵԙ և ֵ֟֟ ֟ ִ

ֳ֬ , ָ ׯ֔ ָ ׾ִ֮֮ ֮ߵ ן 1994 ֤ ֲ ׮֕ ָև ׮ֵ ָ ָ ֻ֮ և, ָ ָ և ֳֻ וִ ָ ׸ כ פ ֵօ ֵ֮ ܵ ֣ ֮ ֱ ר

, ֻ , ӓָ ִ֬, ֮, և ֵ֟֟ ϲӬ֮ ׮ָ֮ ӡ ֮ߵ ׸֟Ԯ ׸ãן ֵ ֣ ָ ָ ׸֟Ԯ ־ֿ ֵօ ׾֬ ָ ׾ִ֮֮ ׮֤, ו֮ Director General of Civil Aviation , ׬ָ ֵ֜ ֵ ׮ִֵ ֣ ֮ ָ ӑ֮ , ׻֋ ׮֬׸ ֕ Ԯ ָ ר և ,

ֳ֬ , ӿ֮ ׾֬ ֯ ֟ ׾֤ וÙ և ֕ ֣ ִ ֵԸ ׾֤ ׸ ן׾׬ֵ ׮ֵס֟ , ָߵ ִ߮ ֿ ֮ ָ 3R/VNK ָ ֿ:

-NB/VNK-KS/3r/4.20

ֵ ֺ (֟) : ֕ ָ ֵ֮ ܵ , ִֵ , ֲ 2005 ܵ 160 , ֜ 250 ߲ և ֕ Ͽ ָ ӡ 2014-15 ܵ ֤ ֋ ֮ 2014-15 ָ ֵ֮ ܵ ߲֮ ֟ ֋, ֻ ָ և ֵ֮ ܵ ֮ ֕ ִֵ և ߲֮ ݵָ ֵ֮ ָ ׸ ֮ , וִ ־׵ ׮֕ ֵ֮ ֟ ܵ ֚ ָ ׬ ֮ ן ו ָ ꌙ ָ֜ , ֵ֮ ܵ ָ֜ , ֲ ֵ֮ ׸ֻ֮ ׬ ר ߅ ֕ ָ ߲֮ ֜ ָ և ׼ , וִ ߲֮ 125 և Airport Authority of India ߮ , ֻ 125 և ֡ 15 և ֳ , Airport Authority of India ױ וִ֮ ָ 㴲և פ և , Airport Authority of India ֕þ ֯ , 33 ןֿ֟ ֳ ֱ և ֯ , և , Ù ӟ ֮֕֬ , economically viable ָָ ֻ֮ ֛

, ݵָ ӓ־ ֮ Civil Aviation 12,435 ֋ ֮ ֣ ָָ ֋ և ׻֋ և , ׾ßָ ׻֋ ֣ סֵ ׬ ׾֬ ׻֋ ֮ ֮և , ֟ ֤ ׾ִ֮ ֣ סֵ ܵ ָ֜ ָ ָ֜ ߯ ֵ ֋օ ֕ ָ ָ ָև ׮ֵ ܵ ן ר , ֻ ָ ֮ ׮֕ ָև ׮ֵ ܵ ֟ , ֕ פ և ӡ ֮֟ ןפ ֋-֋ ־ ֕ ָ ָ ֵ֟֟ ܵ ֋ 2006 , ֮־ָ ־Ӳָ , ߲֮ 29 ״׻ֵ֮ ֮ ֲ ָ סֵ ִ ֱ օ ׮֕ ָև ֛ ָ סֵ ֮ ֓ , þ֟ ݵ , ִ֬ ֵ և ֵ֟֟ ָ ״ֻ

, ָ ָ և ָ ֜ ߛ-֛ ׾ִ֮ ׼ ָ ׾ִ֮ ִֵ סֵ ֻ ָ׮ֵ ָ ׾ִ֮֮ ӡ ֮ ™ ָ ֿ ֵ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮ ӡֵֻ , ָ ָ֬ ׾֬ֆ ײ֮ ֋ ָև ן ֮ , ־ օ

֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮ ӳ߸ ׾ֵ ™ ׯ֔ פ ֙֋ , וִ֮ ׾ִ֮ ִ߮ ָ ֿ ׮֬׸ , -ָ ׮ ָ ֋, ݵ ֤ , ֮ פ ֮ , ֲ ֵ֮ ֜ ֵֻ֙ ־ֿ ָ ֵֻ֙

('3s/mp' ָ ָ)

MP-KGG/3S/4.25

ֵ ֺ (֟) : ָ ֵ֮ ׮ֵ ׾֤ ֵֻ֙ ִ ָ , ָ ָ֮ ״ֻ ָ ֵֻ֙ , ־ ־֢ ִֻ ִ ӳ߸ ֟ , ߬ ӲӬ סֵ ֕ Unstarred Question No. 734 ӡ Ͽ ֵ , וִ ׾֤ ֵֻ֙ ֕ ָ ָև ׮ֵ ִ ܵ - ָ ֳ և ָև, ׮֕ ָև ܵ , 671 ׾֤ ֵֻ֙ ֕ ָ ׮֕ ָև ָ כ ֮ ִ ־ ӕ׮ֵ ָ ׾֤ ֵ , ܵ 131 , ׾֤ ֵֻ֙ ֱֻ , ִ ָ ... ָ ֕ ָ ֤֟ ן׾׬ֵ ̸ , ֲ ֵֻ֙ .... ָ ן ֟ , ָ ׾ֿ ֮ ־ֿ

ӟ ֳ ֟ ӡ ֮ ֮ Ϥ ָӛ פ֮ օ , ֕ ױֻ ™ߵ ßָ և ӓ , Ϥ ֮֕֬ ָ ֯ ֻ , ֯ ִ֬ և ֮ ֋ ׻֋ ָ և , , ӡ ֮֟ և ֋ ָ ָ և, ָ֬ ׾֬ ִ֟ ָ֜ , ӓ ָ , ׻֋ ֮ פ ֮ ӓ ־ ִֿ, ֲ֤֮ ִֻ և ֌ ֮ ׿ֿ

֟ ӡ ֮ פ֮ ָָ ָև ֮ ָ כ , ֻ פ , ָ פ ָ ָ סֵ ׾֬ ֵֻ֙ ָօ ֕ ֲָ ֵ ָ ֟ և ֮ ֻ פ 24 ә ׻֋ ֵֻ֙ ֲֻ ִ ֻ֟ և ֲ ִ פ ֵ, ֵֻ֙ և ֕ ֮ ֮ פօ ӡ , ֲ ָ ָ ָָ ָև ֮ ָ כ , ׾ ָ ָ ֛ , ׻֋ ׿ֿ ֮ ָ כ ו֮֟ ֮ , ִ ֵֻ֙ ꅠ , ֲ ־ ֣ ß ӿ֮ ׾֬ ִ֣Ԯ ߤ ֮ ֻ ׾ֻ ׾֋֮ ֜ꅠ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Thank you very much, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support wholeheartedly the Aircraft (Amendment) Bill, 2007. Most of the clauses are, I should say, enabling clauses so that the aircraft or airline system in the country can improve. But the most important clause I consider is amendment to Section 5(a). I am not going into the sections but only the last 3-4 lines I would like to quote: "To any person or persons using any aerodrome or engaged in aircraft operations, air traffic control, maintenance and operation of aerodrome, communication, navigation, surveillance and air traffic, management facilities and safeguarding civil aviation against acts of unlawful interference shall be substituted." It is an important substitution and I will speak on the subject a bit later. But, in the meanwhile, I take this opportunity to complement the hon. Minister. (Contd. by 3t)

KLS/3t-4.30

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD): The way the growth has taken place even an ordinary citizen of the country can travel by air today. This is what was required. It was earlier considered not only a luxury but only very rich people could afford it. Even I should say that second level rich people were also finding it difficult. But today I know anybody and everybody can just decide and he or she can afford it because sometimes the airfare for passenger traffic is lesser than the railway fare. This is really excellent. With his vision, with the kind of growth we have in this country in different spheres, he has risen to the occasion and it has gone ahead of development in other areas. It is another credit that goes to him. Sir, as Maooji has pointed out, the passenger growth is 50 per cent. This percentage of growth is 40, 50, or 60 but the point is that the growth is phenomenal. I know the importance of development of aviation in the country. In Paris Show, Sir, the maximum number of aircraft was purchased by India in 2006. Am I right? That is where the whole world was wondering what is happening in this country. Before that, the country was not exposed to the entire world. The moment they found that it is this country, which is considered to be a poor country, this is the country where they never thought that India could grow like this, the maximum number of aircraft is being purchased by this country, different operators of this country. This is how Indian window has been opened by an act in the Paris Show. Sir, it is all right that we have developed. I also understand you cannot develop everything together. There is need for infrastructure like airports; the need for pilots, the need for ATCs and all these things will follow. This is very well taken. But whatever is available is it being used properly? That has to be seen. Whatever is available is it being used round the clock? Are we having the maximum utility of the infrastructure that is already available? We know unless we use it in a proper manner there will be problems. What Marooji has said and what we experience everyday is the delays, air misses. It is frightening. But I can inform, through you, Sir, Marooji and the House because I understand sometimes these air misses are more notional than real. Sometimes what is projected by media is not always true. I understand that the safest system and controls are in our country in the world. The record for accidents is lowest in our country. But still it does not mean that there is no scope for improvement. The hon. Minister is seized of this problem. So, I am sure this fear of misses should not be there because in ordinary life when we pass through we hit somebody or we miss somebody or even on the road when we are moving around somebody misses or somebody gets into an accident. An accident after all is an accident. But the important thing is whether we are taking all the precautions required or whether we are compromising on the quality of safety requirements. If you are not compromising then whatever risk is there, that risk is to all, each one of us that we have to accept because we cannot go beyond a limit. Risk is always there in every walk of life.

(Contd by 3U/sss)

SSS/3U/4.35

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Sir, when we mentioned about foreign pilots, one problem I want to tell the hon. Minister, through you, is the language. Sir, a number of foreign pilots do not know Hindi or English. I know about pilots from Russia, Uzbekistan and some other countries. I am not talking about accent only. It is a question of language. They don't even know that language. They just speak a few words and they think they can get away with it. I request the hon. Minister to kindly have a test of their language. Whether they can fly or not, language is important Flying knowledge is separate but communication is equally important. The ATC says, "land" and he might think he has to go up. What will happen? Just think of it. So, the language of the foreign pilots is very important. I also hear that some foreign pilots who have been rejected...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF P. J. KURIEN): Why can't they be given some language course?

THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI PRAFUL PATEL): I will inform the House after the discussion.

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: This matter has been discussed in the Standing Committee before the recommendation. We had discussed it in detail.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: I am happy that the Standing Committee has discussed this matter. That means it is an important matter. I am happy that hon. Minister has some ideas, so we will all know about it and we will feel more assured. Sir, licenses of some Indian pilots have been cancelled for different reasons. I understand they have gone outside the country, got the licence and they are again operating here because getting licences outside the country, I am told, is much easier than getting licence in India. If that situation is also there, I request the hon. Minister to kindly look into it that somebody who cannot get a licence here simply gets a licence from outside the country. Please see that he does not become necessarily eligible to fly in our country and create security risk for all of us. Sir, at this stage, I will strongly recommend to the hon. Minister through you, Sir, that we need more airports. We need more airports within the big cities like Delhi. Since there is only one airport, there is congestion not only in the skies near the airports, not only there is congestion on the terminal buildings but there is congestion on the roads. A few days ago, on the day when there was a bit of a problem in Calcutta I had to rush back. I started at 9 o'clock. I took one hour 45 minutes in the morning to reach from the airport to my home. It is just because there is no airport. Everybody has to land there. But the infrastructure to get out of the airport is limited. So, Sir, leaving aside all other problems, we must have more airports. In every corner of Delhi we need airports. Delhi is quite spread over. If New York can have more airports, if London can have more airports, why not Delhi? Why not Bangalore? Why not Hyderabad? Why not Calcutta? Why not Chennai and Yavatmal? I don't mind. Sir, we need more airports. So, I know some people may object to this decision. Since airports are going to be operated by private people, they would like to have monopoly. But it is not a question of their convenience. It is a question of convenience of the country. It is a question of convenience of the nation. It is a question of convenience of the public, the masses and the convenience of growth. Can we grow by restricting? No. So, we have to open up there also. Sir, now you are well developed in these areas. Private people are coming. You have lot of resources. I know small towns are not your problem. In some places, the State Governments have to do it. (Contd. by NBR/3W)

-SSS/NBR-ASC/3W/4.40.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Either you fund them or you encourage them. You have to find out a policy. The way they are developing here, small towns and cities should also be connected. I would say, particularly, places like the North-East, Rajastan, border areas, have to be connected. For example, Sir, places like Bikaner and Barmer in Rajasthan are remote areas. But, you will be amazed to know, people from all over the world want to visit those places. And, Sir, even people from India want to go here. But, they have no access. There are no airports. There are no flights. Still, people go there by rail or by road. Why cannot we develop airports in such places? If we develop airports, I am sure, the private operators will take their aircraft. Then, there are industrial belts. There are religious places like Ajmer and Bhilwara, known as the second Mumbai for textile industry. Sir, 60 per cent suit-length is manufactured in Bhilwara and we have no flights! It is because the airport is small. It is not big enough so that the flights can land. So, the Central Government has to come forward to develop those areas. The Government need not have to bother about the big cities. Now, the private people are coming forward, since they are beneficial and profitable. But, if you think of the smaller places, the private people will not go. You have decided, 'All right. We will allow the private people.' But, they will not go there. This is where the responsibility of the Government comes in. You have to develop areas which are not economically viable in the beginning. We talk of airports in places like Delhi.

Mr. Maroo has mentioned about the delay in flights. I get scared now-a-days. Earlier, if I want to join for dinner, I will board 5 o' clock flight in the evening and by 7 o' clock the flight lands and I will be able to attend the dinner. Now, 5 o' clock flight can come at 9 o' clock or 10 o' clock or 11 o' clock. Time is not the limit. So, I request the hon. Minister to know one thing. It is the question of mindset. If private operators can operate the flights much more on time, why could not own national carriers do that? I am fully supporting Air India. Today, Air India includes international and domestic flights. I am in full support of it. But, the point is, if the private operators can handle it, I am sure, AI can also handle it. Why is it not being handled? I want to tell you the mindset. 15 ״֮֙ , ֮ ? 20 ״֮֙ , ֬ ә . Now, in the case of private operators, the passengers know that the counter would be closed at a particular time. Under no circumstances, anybody will be taken in after that. Passengers know the aircraft will not stop if you come late. The security people will not be able to delay the flight if you are not able to cross the security line. The aircraft is not going to wait for you. Therefore, our mindset has to change. I request the hon. Minister to please tell the operators of AI to change their mind set. There is no question of one minute delay. I think, the thinking in our national carrier is that fifteen minutes delay, probably, he can correct me if I am wrong, is taken as 'on time.' How can it be 'on-time?' Fifteen minutes delay is fifteen minutes delay. On-time means on-time. There is no question of tolerance. There should be zero tolerance. It is only then our national carrier can really compete with the private people.

(CONTD. BY USY "3X")

-NBR-USY/3X/4.45

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Sir, another very, very important thing, as I was mentioning, is safeguarding the civil aviation against the acts of unlawful interferers, security risk. I don't think we can compromise on security and safety. We have already mentioned that the pilots or the ATCs or the maintenance of the aircraft, all are important. But, it is the sovereign right and the duty of the Government to keep all the airports in the country secured and safe. But, unfortunately, it is not true, particularly, in the case of Delhi itself. Sir, for your kind information, the temporary passes for the entry inside the airport are being issued by private people. It may be daily passes; it may be only for one hour; it may be only for ten hours. A terrorist does not need a permanent pass for one month to carry out his act. No officer, no Ministry has this authority to pass on this responsibility to any other authority, which is private. But, unfortunately, this is happening day in and day out. Unless this is checked we will cut a very sorry figure some day when we will know something disastrous has happened. I would also like to warn the private operators who are very eager to take this kind of responsibility. What has happened in the case of Uphar? All of us know that the owners have been held responsible for that incident. They will be jailed. Similarly, no private operator, taking such responsibility, is able to understand that. I want to warn them that if any untoward incident takes place, they will personally be held responsible. Forget about what will happen to all of us, what about innocent citizens of the country who don't even know what is happening.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Why forget us? The safety of everybody is essential. (Interruptions)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): He is not saying in that sense. (Interruptions) Please proceed. (Interruptions)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, my brother enjoys interrupting me. (Interruptions)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No problem. If you speak more, his time will be curtailed. So, you don't worry about that. (Interruptions)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I am not worried. I am enjoying him. (Interruptions) The point is that the ordinary citizen may not know it. Obviously, he cannot know it. But, at least, the House should know, the Ministry should know, the hon. Minister should know that this is going to be a very great risk, unless something is done about it. And, why it is not being done, I fail to understand that. What is the advantage of the private operator, that too I fail to understand because monetarily he does not get any advantage. You know, Sir, a foreigner is heading the organization. He is at liberty to move around. But an Indian citizen will not have the same right.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Bagrodiaji, there is one more speaker from the Congress Party.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I will not take very long time. If you want, I will close very soon. I will not take very long time. I will quickly make a reference to the example of Kolkata episode.

(Contd. by 3y -- VP)

VP/4.50/3Y

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): For example, there is the Kolkata episode. That day, suddenly, a 48-hour bandh was announced. Thousands and thousands of people came to the Airport at night. They were sleeping on the floor. Nothing can be done by the Ministry; by the Government, I understand that. Since I also wanted to get out of the town on that day, I telephoned the Indian Airlines authorities in Delhi. I don't want to name the officers. Very senior officer told me, "I am helpless. I don't know what will happen next morning." I warned even the local officers by saying, "Look, if the crew members are not brought to the airport in time, the Bandh will start at 6.00 a.m. I knew from internal sources that they are going to block first time near the airport." So, please get the crew before 5 0'clock." After a lot of effort, I am glad to say, they accepted it, and they brought them. They brought them, and the result was our flight could leave in time also. What I am trying to say is that I had to make an effort. This should have come automatically. If there is an emergency, then, emergency action should have come automatically. I am not going into the details of what happened at the Airport because that will be too personal. I am not talking about myself. I am talking of the thousands of passengers who had problem.

Now, Sir, another thing, which we are all seeing is that the hon. Defence Minister had mentioned something about frisking of all the three Chiefs; the Air Chief, the Army Chief and the Navy Chief. I do not find any reason why they should not be exempted. So, I am not on that issue. I have no problem; they should be rather exempted. Many others have been exempted and they should also be exempted. Three of them, at least, should be exempted. But, at this stage, I also want to tell my friends in the Services, I have noticed at Jaipur Airport and Delhi Airport that, maybe, legally they are not exempted, maybe, they do not go like that, they go in a lawful manner, but a number of officers at the lower level from these services, they just pass through without any frisking. Not only this that they pass through, along with them a retinue of officers pass through. They are not going to board the flight. They have no reason to pass through the security, but even retired officers from these Services just pass through. The poor constable or the officer, whoever is frisking there, cannot dare to speak a word about it. Probably, he will be beaten on the spot. That also has to be stopped. Anybody who comes in that uniform thinks, he has the right to pass through without frisking. I do not think as a Member of Parliament I have that right. I think by frisking me he is saving me also from a disaster. I am happy about it. I am not even asking for that kind of privilege for any Member of Parliament. But, this privilege should be only for three of them and not for anybody. Nobody else should be allowed to enter along with them. That has to be thoroughly checked, Sir, otherwise, the meaning of this frisking will be completely lost.

Sir, this is a very important point that was published only one or two days before. The report has come about the merged Air India finances. I will just tell you that in 1996-97, Rs. 296 crores the Airlines were minus; in red, that is, at that rupee value. (Continued by PK/3Z)

PK/3Z/4.55

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): In 1997-98, it was Rs.181 crores; in 1998-99, it was Rs.174 crores, and, slowly, it went on improving. It was Rs.37 crores next year; in 2000-01, it was Rs.44 crores, and in 2001-02, there was a profit of Rs.15 crores. In 2002-03, there was a huge profit of Rs.133 crores, in 2003-04, it was Rs. 92 crores, in 2004-05, it was Rs.96 crores, in 2005-06, it was Rs.14.94 crores. I can't understand how, suddenly, why there is a big, big loss of Rs.1,100 crores. I won't like to use the word 'manipulation'. There is no way out; with the expert advice of accountants in the books you can show lesser losses, but the actual loss is Rs.1,100 crores. Something has to be done about it.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Please conclude.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I will take only two more minutes.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, after merging, the Indian Airlines people are very much demoralised. So, I know, whenever there is a change, this kind of a situation arises. So, I will request the hon. Minister to do something. The communication with them has to improve, so that they are not demoralised any more.

Sir, the last point I would like to make is that Centre is yet to take action on delays. There was a meeting in Bombay where the Secretary chaired the meeting. I thought Air India is an autonomous body. I thought CMD is an independent individual. I do not know how the Secretary can chair the meeting of an autonomous body, that is, Air India.


THE MINISTER OF HEAVY INDUSTRIES AND PUBLIC ENTERPRISES (SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV): Why not?

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: If it is allowed under the law, I have no problem, but I think it is not. If it is allowed, then, it is all right, because with him only three or four PSUs are there, but the hon. Minister has got 48 PSUs; so, if Secretary is allowed, it is all right. But that will only create unnecessary interference from the Government, which I am sure the hon. Minister won't like. With these words, I support the Bill and whatever I said, I still compliment the hon. Minister because even small people like me can travel by air now. Thank you. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): But you are not that small Bagrodiaji, keep that in mind. Now, Shri Matilal Sarkarji.

SHRI MATILAL SARKAR (TRIPURA): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I thank you for having given me this opportunity. First of all, I support the Aircraft (Amendment) Bill, 2007 which has been placed here by the hon. Minister. At the same time, I would also like to express some of my concerns about the Bill.

Sir, coming to clause 4 (a), here, it is mentioned, "The Director General of Civil Aviation or any other officer, specially empowered in this behalf by the Central Government, shall perform the safety oversight functions...." Sir, it seems to be unwise to say " any other officer". There should be some specific officer, holding some rank, status and powers. When there is the Director-General of Civil Aviation, why the question of "any other officer" comes. So, here, it is not specific as to who will bear the responsibility.

Now, Sir, coming to clause no. 6, here it is stated that the functions which befit the Airport Authority of India are now being proposed to be shifted to the Director-General Civil Aviation.

(Contd. by PB/4A)

 

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