PREVIOUS HOUR

TDB-MP/2Z/4.00

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (CONTD.): With these words, I commend, Sir, that the Proclamation issued on 20th November, 2007 under article 356(1) of the Constitution in relation to the State of Karnataka be approved by this august House. A copy of the Proclamation as stipulated under the Constitution along with the consequential order has been placed on the Table of the House on 21st November, 2007. In keeping with the convention, a copy of the Governor's report recommending issuance of the Proclamation is also placed on the Table of the House. It is clear from the current political situation that there is no likelihood of any Government being formed in the State of Karnataka. Once the august House approves the Proclamation, the intention of the Government is to dissolve the Legislative Assembly in the State of Karnataka.

(Ends)

The question was proposed.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (KARNATAKA): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I agree with the contention of the Government that in the present situation that there is no possibility of any stable or meaningful Government to be formed in the State of Karnataka.

(The Vice-Chairman, Prof. P.J. Kurien, in the Chair)

The only way is to go in for fresh elections in the State of Karnataka. Sir, while discussing it, we must understand what has happened. In 2004... Sir, my friend is also standing and I am also standing. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Because he is your friend.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: He is my friend and a good friend also. He is a good person also. Though may not be in a good party, but he is a good man.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Thank you for your good certificate with bad intention. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I would like to have the attention of the hon. Home Minister. Sir, I would like the hon. House to understand the background of the present move of this Government.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, I seek your permission to go to the other House.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: If the other Minister is here, fine. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: The Minister of State for Home Affairs is here. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I would recall that the Karnataka Legislative Assembly elections were held along with the Lok Sabha elections. In 2004, when elections were held to the Karnataka Assembly, the Congress was in a comfortable majority in the State of Karnataka. It had, Sir, in the outgoing House more than 160 MLAs, out of 224. But in the elections, the people's verdict was very clear that the Congress Party was rejected by the people, because from 160 plus its strength had come down to 65. Almost 100 seats they lost. So, that means, the verdict of the people was 'no' to the Congress Party. But, Sir, unfortunately, as usual, the Congress Party using its own methods had manipulated the mandate of the people and came to power through backdoor in the State of Karnataka.

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: You had an MoU with your coalition partner. ...(Interruptions)... It was written on the paper. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You can reply when your turn comes. ...(Interruptions)... No disturbance, please.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Did the people of Karnataka give the mandate to the BJP at that time? ...(Interruptions)... No, no; let him answer this point.

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SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: He is saying this thing about the Congress. Did the people of Karnataka give the mandate to the BJP? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You can reply when your turn comes. Please continue.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, if my friends don't understand arithmetic, don't know the numbers, I cannot help it. Sir, in the Lok Sabha elections...(Interruptions)... Their point is, either they should rule or nobody should rule or they should rule through backdoor. That has been their practice. Sir, the BJP, out of 28 Lok Sabha seats, got 18 Lok Sabha seats from the Karnataka State. (Contd. by 3a-kgg)

kgg/3a/4.05

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): The Congress Party's strength came down from 160-plus to 65. BJP's strength has gone up from 44 to 79. And, our ally, JD(U) got 5. That means the figure of 84 seats is more than the figure of 65. If my figures are right, I think, they will appreciate my point. Please try to bear with me.

Sir, they were the ruling party and the ruling party has been reduced to minority. We were the opposition party. Our strength got increased. But, at the same time, the people of Karnataka did not give the full mandate to any political party. The BJP emerged as the largest single party with an ally having 5 MLAs, making it 84. But 84 was short of majority. You need 113 to rule the State of Karnataka. No party was given the full mandate, BJP getting 84, Congress getting 65, and JD(S) at that time having 58. That was the scenario.

At the same time, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House that both BJP and JD(S) contested elections against the Congress party. We were the non-Congress parties, opposition parties. They were the ruling party and they lost the mandate. What I am trying to say is, people had rejected them in 2004. That is my first point.

My second point is, after that, whatever may be the reasons, Congress party and JD(S) came together and formed a Government headed by Shri Dharam Singh. Sir, that Government also did not run its full term. Whatever may be the reasons, I do not want to go into the reasons. At the end of it, JD(S) MLAs said that they had been humiliated and their party was split by the Congress party, and the Congress encouraged defections; that is why, they are totally disgusted with the Congress party and they came out and said that they also had non-Congress blood in their veins, they made statements and I have relevant quote from the leader of that party also. Then, they said that they wanted to put an end to Congress rule in the State.

So, that being the case, the BJP thought, at that time after 20 months, that still 40 months were there, we thought, people normally did not favour frequent elections and MLAs too were not willing to face elections at that time. That was the mood at that time. Keeping that in mind, the BJP extended support to JD(S) to form a Government under its leadership. Sir, again I want to remind the number; we were 79, JD(S) MLAs -- whether came out of their parent organisation or split the parent organisation, whatever it is, it is their internal matter -- were around 40. We joined together and we gave a solemn assurance to the people of Karnataka that we would rule the State and we would have a Common Minimum Programme. We presented the Common Minimum Programme before the people and we came to an understanding that the Government's first turn of 20 months would be headed by JD(S) and the next turn would be headed by the Bharatiya Janata Party.

Accordingly, Sir, for 20 months, both JD(S) and BJP ruled the State and given to the people of the State a good governance. Many developmental activities were initiated, many welfare programmes were announced and also implemented; the people were by and large happy. That was evident by the results of the local body elections also, I am not going into the history in depth. That is very clear because both BJP and JD(S) though contested differently, we accounted for the 2/3rd and the Congress 1/3rd of the local body election results.

That being the case, Sir, afterwards when 20 months were completed, we expected JD(S) to honour its public commitment which was given to the people, to support the BJP Chief Minister. That did not happen. As that did not happen, they had gone back on their word and they were delaying it, and then we decided that we should not be part of that Government which did not honour the agreement. Accordingly, we have communicated the same to the hon. Governor, as rightly said by the hon. Home Minister, and subsequently the Chief Minister had to resign and then the Governor was faced with a situation that the Chief Minister had resigned and there was no alternative Chief Minister forthcoming at that time. At that time, I would like to stress this point: BJP said that because the JD(S) betrayed it, there was no other way but to go to the people. We started a Dharma Yatra also. We were approaching the people. There was tremendous enthusiasm among the people in favour of the BJP, and there was a groundswell of sympathy for the BJP because the largest single party, at the first instance, was denied an opportunity and at the second instance also, it had agreed to make a junior partner as the Chief Minister, and at the third instance, when its turn came, it was once again betrayed. That was the mood of the people!

We were going ahead with approaching the people because, you know, Sir, in democracy, there is no other way and when you do not get justice, you go to the people. (Contd. by kls/3b)

KLS/3B-4.10

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD): We were approaching the people. At that time what had happened again that is another interesting thing the House has to take note of. At that time the Congress Party once again started its machinations and again started trying to woo certain sections of the JD (S) MLAs. They have openly invited certain JD (S) leaders to Delhi to hold talks to form an alternative Government. They were rejected at the first instance; secondly, they manoeuvred the mandate; thirdly, they failed and fourthly, again they tried to again form the Government in the State of Karnataka. This was there in the back of our mind. On 27th of October I happened to be in Bangalore. The JD (S) leadership approached us saying, "No, no, whatever has happened has happened. Now we have realised that the Congress Party instead of agreeing to the recommendations of going for dissolution and election is trying to split our party, so, we feel that we should not allow this to happen." So, they approached us. I was there personally, they approached me, and I said, "We had enough experience, there is no need to have one more experiment in this regard." But they said, "No, Sir, see that M.P. Prakash, one of the leaders of the JD (S) has been called to Delhi, and then senior Congress leaders they were holding consultation. They are bent upon splitting our party and they want to come to power once again through backdoor methods." This is the reality and they said, "We have learnt by our experience, we stand by you and we are extending unconditional support." Sir, because personally I was present a lot of debate is taking place across the country. I would like to make three things clear. First thing to ask them is: Is your National President in agreement with this? The answer was, 'yes'. Second, what is the basis of forming the Government again? They said, "the same basis of 2006 January where both the parties came together and gave a solemn assurance to the people." Third thing, I asked, what about the so-called reports appearing in the Press? They said, "No conditions, it is an unconditional support" They gave a letter, Sir. The letter is also with me. After that I discussed with my Parliamentary Board and the Parliamentary Board came to the conclusion that 'though we were basically interested to go to the people, in order to thwart the attempts of the Congress Party which was again trying to hijack the mandate of the people, we have decided that we should step in and accept this offer and then form the Government. " And for that the Congress people are saying that we are power hungry. You people have been rejected by the people, you lost the mandate, and still you came to power through backdoor. And you are accusing me. I am 80 you are 65. Are you power hungry or am I power hungry? For first 20 months I sat in opposition, for second 20 months I gave the leadership to JD (S) though they are only forty plus and you are saying that we are power hungry.

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN IN THE CHAIR)

The third instance, again, you have the audacity to publicly make efforts to split the JD (S) again and form the Government. At that situation, we agreed with this and, Sir, on 27th, we approached the hon. Governor and we informed him "both BJP and JD (S) are coming together without any conditions." We requested the Governor to invite Shri V.S Yeddurapa who is the leader of the single largest party and who is also head of the coalition of these two parties to form the Government. But unfortunately the Governor did not do anything. Secondly, on 29th, within two days of this, as we were sensing, certain developments were taking place at the national level and the manoeuvring of Congress Party still continuing, we went to Governor. All the 129 MLAs met the hon. Governor and also presented themselves and filed affidavits signed individually by each MLA before the hon. Governor to convince him, "Sir, here is a clear cut majority for these two parties; we have come together, there are no conditionalities attached. Invite Shri B.S. Yeddurapa to form the Government." Fortunately, I was also there in Bangalore on that day. Sir, after that also nothing happened. The Government of India was still moving in the direction of manoeuvring the verdict of the people once again. Then we came here and met the hon. Prime Minister here. The hon. Prime Minister was kind enough to call the Home Minister also. The Leader of the Opposition, Shri Advaniji, our National President, Shri Rajnath Singh, I and our other senior leaders along with the Karnataka leaders, we went and met the hon. Prime Minister. We apprised the hon. Prime Minister that the Governor was unnecessarily delaying the matter. There was no reason for the Governor for delaying this matter. We also brought it to the notice of the hon. Prime Minister that the hon. Governor came to Delhi, held discussions and gave a statement on 24th October saying that nobody has approached him to form the Government and his first priority will be to exhaust the possibility of forming a popular Government.

(Contd 3C/sss)

SSS/3C/4.15

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): That was the statement made on 24th and on 27th , we approach him. On 29th, we present ourselves. Nothing happens. Secondly, we are compelled to come to Delhi and meet the hon. Prime Minister and then, brief him about what are the things that are happening and told him. So, in between the AICC spokesperson under the Congress Party officially gave a statement saying that no popular Government is possible; dissolution of the House is the only remedy. This was the stand taken by the Congress party's official spokesperson. When you have an opportunity to form an alternative Government, no problem, but, when others have an opportunity to have an alternative Government as per the original mandate of the people then you come in the way and demand dissolution of the House. After that, nothing has happened. So, we are compelled to get all the legislators to Delhi and we took the time from hon. Rashtrapathiji. Rashtrapathiji was kind enough to give time and we presented all our MLAs before Rashtrapathiji and apprised him of the developments and the background of what has happened in Karnataka and requested the President of India to intervene and advise the Central Government not to do politicking but accept the mandate of the people and invite Shri Yeddyurappa to form the Government. My point is, why this delay? We meet on 27th and you don't take steps to form the Government up to 9th of November. Why is this delay on the part of the Governor in between? We are sitting in the Council of States. The Governor is also responsible to the Centre. He is a Constitutional representative there. Why he took so much time? Is it not at the behest of the Congress Party? In spite of declaring on 24th October saying that he is waiting for somebody to stake claim, in spite of 129 MLAs coming and presenting themselves before you and filing individual affidavits, why should you take time? Are you bothered about letters written outside or to the President? Have you understood the spirit of S.R. Bommai case? Have you understood the spirit of hon. Supreme Court in the Bihar State Assembly dissolution case? Sir, in the case of Bihar Assembly dissolution, I would like to recall the memory of this House, Sir, at 2.30, the Governor sends recommendations and at 11 o' clock at night, the Union Cabinet meets, and at 1.55 a. m. in the morning the President's signature was obtained from Moscow. See the speed -- afternoon 2.30, evening 11. o' clock and early morning 1.55, you complete the entire process and you want to deny the people of Bihar their right and you have dissolved the Bihar Assembly. Then, of course, you received a fax from the Supreme Court. I don't want to go into the details. But, at the same time, what has happened in the State of Jharkhand, the way in which the Governor behaved there also, came for judicial scrutiny. What has happened to the State of Goa? After the Chief Minister has proved his majority, you dismiss him and install somebody and give 30 days time. Same thing you did in Jharkhand also. But, here in Karnataka, from 27th to 9th November, you just wait and see that the move becomes a failure and you do not want any non-Congress Government to come in the State of Karnataka. Is the role of Governor not questionable? The Governor is only a pathradhari, all Governors for that matter, mostly in the Congress regime. The real suthradhari was sitting in Delhi. It is the Congress party in its high command which was manoeuvring politics of Karnataka through backdoor methods. For that, they have taken such a long time. Otherwise, there was no explanation whatsoever. Sir, the hon. Supreme Court -- I need not quote the judgements -- while referring to the Bihar Assembly dissolution case said that whatever happens outside, even shifting of stand by political parties is no consideration for the Governor to arrive at an understanding. This is the crux of the judgment of the Supreme Court in the Bihar Assembly case. They went further. They even said allurements, defections, change of parties, loyalties. That is not the consideration. The Governor has to be satisfied about the numbers, that they have majority. That is the judgement. I am not going into the merits of the other part of the judgment. But the question is, when it is very clear he was saying, "no, no, Governor is verifying whether the letter which was written earlier..." The letter was written to the hon. Prime Minister of India. It is a political letter written between two politicians. It was not a representation made before any Constitutional authority. You try to refer to that letter and then, delay it and Sir, there also, the letter was supposed to be written on 24th after the BJP and JD(S) staked claim, the endorsement for that letter was sent on 27th night at 11 o' clock. See the intention. If at all Raj Bhawan is so prompt enough to endorse letters , he would have given endorsement on the same day. You wait because now that the other side has mustered enough strength and they are coming together, there is a possibility of BJP-JD(S) forming the Government.(Contd. by NBR/3D)

-SSS/NBR-ASC/3D/4.20.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): And, now, you give the credence to that letter and cite it as a reason for the delay. But, compelled to that fact that we present ourselves before the Governor, we present ourselves before the hon. Rashtrapati and present ourselves before the entire nation and when the entire country was convinced that we had the number and it was an un-conditional support which was explained by the leader of the JD(S) also at that time, and when the Centre was left with no other option, finally, the Governor had allowed the formation of the Government led by Shri Yeddyurappa, leader of the BJP in the State.

Here, again, the third point I would like to draw the attention of this House is, as per the earlier record, in Goa, after dismissing, you had given time for a minority Government to prove its majority by manipulation. And, in Jharkhand, you did the same thing. Here, just now, the hon. Home Minister has said that the Governor had given the Chief Minister 8 days time! Why? When you have the crystal clear 129 MLAs presented themselves before you signing individual affidavits, when two political parties come and present letters of support to you, you give 8 days! Is it your mercy? ӡ ֯ ޵ ֻ֮ ? ֯ Ù ֯ puppet ׌ ܵ ӡ ֮֟ , ֯ defections encourage , ֤ ִֵ , ִֵ ִֵ ֮ פ, But the point I want to say is that the Chief Minister, after taking the oath, said that he would like to take floor test on 23rd, because the JD(S) said that they would join on 21st. But, you said, 'No. No 23rd. Do it on 21st.' Even if you give one day's time, if we are capable of proving our majority, we have to prove it. If we are not able to prove our majority, we have to go. We could not prove our majority because of the action of the other party. I agree. But, at the same time, I am asking about the stand of the Governor and how the institutions are being misused. Should we not take a serious note of what has happened in the State of Karnataka? Why 129 MLAs come to you with an understanding? They have an understanding and they ruled the State for 20 months. And, you give them 8 days or 9 days or 10 days and then for others, during the same regime of the UPA, you -- the Governor of Jharkhand, the Governor of Goa -- give enough time. Why is this double standard? Why is this opportunistic stand? Is it not the duty of the Central Government to explain to the people of the country? That is why I am raising this question. They have no answer whatsoever. They have the audacity now to come and tell the people, 'No, no.' Sir, in the meanwhile, they have announced, 'If the BJP-JD(S) forms the Government, we will go for a mass action.' And, they called for a massive rally at Palace grounds. Palace ground is the biggest ground in Bangalore. There is no crowd to support their claim. I don't want to count the numbers, because I leave it to the wisdom of the Congress leaders. They had announced that they were going to launch a State-wide rally and lakhs and lakhs of people were going to come. And, the Governor told that, "You are saying 'Chalo Rajbhawan.' They are launching a massive programme. It will lead to a law and order situation." Nothing has happened, because the Congressmen did not find any support from the people.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Lakhs of people turned up.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Some people have turned up like our friend Mr. Narayanasamy and various other leaders as they have to go and attend the rally. What can I do?

In between, the hon. Minister in the Prime Minister's Office, if I am correct, Mr. Prithviraj Chauhan, visits Bangalore, meets the Governor and holds discussions. There is nothing wrong in holding discussions. My point is the other side has a clear majority. You have been rejected by the people. You have lost the mandate. And, still you try to manipulate. You tried your best to prevent the formation of an alternative Government. What is this? What is the rationale? What is the morality in doing such things? Still, you call, 'The BJP is crazy. The BJP is power-hungry.' You dismissed more than 108 popularly-elected Governments and tried to come to power through backdoor. You don't have even majority at the Centre. You have alliance partners. You are depending on their support. If you simply say -- if I go by the analogy of the Governor and the statement made by the Spokesperson of the Congress Party -- that the JD(S) national President has written a letter to the hon. Prime Minister of India, I would say that there are so many letters and so many stands between the Congress Party and the Left. How many times they are meeting? The other day I saw a news item which says that the Coordination Committee of the Left and the Congress Party met and decided to meet on a particular day again to decide when to meet again. This is what is happening between these two parties. Without their support, you are not there and you are running such a coalition Government in a perfect manner, it is called the 'national coalition.' In the State, at least, there is an alternative. You can keep the Assembly in a Suspended Animation. Here are the parties of the Left Front which are supporting your Government. You did not take them into confidence. You go to international arena and sign an agreement and now you come back and trying to convince everybody!

(CONTD. BY USY "3E")

NBR--USY/3E/4.25

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): Is it the way to run a Government? Then, you are trying to preach morals to us; teach us how to run a Government, saying that you don't have a stable Government, and you don't have a right to comment. Once again, I am stressing upon the point that I had got more seats than you. You were in the ruling party. You had more than 165 seats. Now, you have been reduced to 65 seats. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: You did not have the majority. If majority was there why did you seek the support of JD(S). Then, they withdrew their support. They did not trust you. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please let him continue. (Interruptions)

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: They trusted you. (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI PREMA CARIAPPA: You were there for twenty months. (Interruptions)

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: How many days? Earlier, we were there for thirteen days, and, then, came back for six years. Try to understand that. Yes, it happens. You have been in power for so many years. Still you leader has been defeated. You have been reduced to half, or, even less than that. All this is a part of history. (Interruptions) Sir, I am saying the same thing. My point is, you were rejected by the people. Accept it with humility. You are saying that the party, which got more seats, is defeated. You are saying, "I am defeated; I am rejected; I am power hungry!" We sat in Opposition for forty-five years. We did not do this sort of compromise in Sarkar and hara-kiri, the way in which it was happening -- one step forward, three steps backward, and making the situation awkward. We did not do it. Everybody knows what is happening in your Government. The entire country is watching. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: What about Ram Mandir and article 370, when you were in power. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamy, please let him complete. (Interruptions)

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I am happy that my friend, Narayanasamy, because he is swami, he wants Ram Mandir. We will move in that direction. We will do it. If not today, or, tomorrow, or, day after tomorrow, but the day is not far off when no force on the Earth will be able to stop the construction of Rama Temple at the birthplace of Lord Rama. (Interruptions) It is very clear. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we are missing the focus. (Interruptions)

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: The Common Civil Code also was not proposed by the BJP. It was proposed by the founding fathers of our Constitution. Do you feel Mahatama Gandhi was wrong, Dr. Ambedkar was wrong, everybody was wrong, who had put in the Directive Principles of Directive Policy, who had put in the Common Civil Code? Even in the State of Goa, now, there is a Common Civil Code. Let us not ridicule. We did not have full majority, that's why we could not implement the agenda. But you have your Government, now. Narayanasamyji, have you been able to implement your agenda, in this Government? No, you can't, because you don't have the majority. You have do depend on your friends; you have to depend on political parties. You signed an agreement. Now, everybody is heckling you. Your own Cabinet Minister is criticising. That is the situation. So, don't get into that arena unnecessarily. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let us come back to Karnataka. (Interruptions)

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I have enough patience. We had been in Opposition for 45 years. I am ready to have patience. But Mr. Narayanasamy interrupts me. I have no problem. It is a happy interruption. (Interruptions) It is an interesting interruption. He is reminding us, time and again. I am thankful to him and other colleagues also.

My point is, instead of condemning this opportunism, instead of joining together the people's mood of condemning the betrayal, my Congress friends are deriving a satisfaction, which is called a vicarious satisfaction. The vicarious satisfaction is that the BJP has been denied after taking our support. So, they are very happy. Do you want such a situation to come here also? Are you waiting to come such a situation here also? We had, in good faith, accepted the JD(S). We had allowed them to rule the State for twenty months. We had given our full cooperation. We had performed our responsibility. Is it a big sin? Is it a big sin to expect that from a party, which takes our support for twenty months and enjoys power, to reciprocate the same after their tenure is over?

(THE VICE-CHAIRMAN, PROF. P.J. KURIEN, IN THE CHAIR.)

Is it new to Indian politics? It is a betrayal. Do you want to heckle the other side? Do you want to enjoy this because it gives you vicarious satisfaction? If that is the mood of the Congress Party, I will leave it to the collective wisdom. I have no problem on that. We are very clear that the people are with us. An opportunity will come right now. Immediately after Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh, let us go to Karnataka. Let us meet the people of the State. They will give a clear-cut mandate this time. (Interruptions) (Contd. by 3f -- vp)

VP/SCH/4.30/3f

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): Sir, Karnataka's BJP history is like this. We had four Members, we had 8 Members, we had 18 Members, we had 38 Members, we had 40 plus Members, and, now, we are having 80 Members. Next time, it will be mighty. This time, it was in Opposition, but next time, it will be in position. That is the position with regard to Karnataka. Nobody will be able to stop us. And, if you do more such things, -- and for this drama, they bring the good names of Shri Rajasekharan, ...(Interruptions).. ֯ ؓ֟ ֟ ׸ , because of that only you are able to spend that money which we earned for the sake of the country, otherwise, you could not have done anything.

Sir, my point is, you try to bring in names of people, who had some reputation, and, then, try to suggest, one day this man will be the Chief Minister; one day that man will be the Chief Minister. Sir, there was a cartoon in the Times of India. I don't want to take big names in this House. The cartoon says this. They have put Mahatma Gandhi's photo and Rs. 1000 note and say, "I promise to pay the bearer Rs. 1000/-." And the latest cartoon was, they put a photo of JD(S) Leader and say, " I promise not to pay Rs. 1000 to the bearer of this letter." This is the way the people are ridiculing that Party; the JD(S) for betraying the BJP, after enjoying power. Now, again, you are trying to hold talks with them. You try to ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Why did you join them? ...(Interruptions)... You enjoyed it, for the first time, after 20 months. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Please sit down. (Interruptions)..

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: I have not enjoyed anything...(Interruptions)..

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: You enjoyed it.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, my entire approach is to prevent this party, which ruled and ruined the State of the country for more than 40 years. ...(Interruptions)... Since they have been known for manoeuvring politics and backdoor entry, we stepped in, otherwise, we were willing for election. You ask your Governor, you ask your Central Government, in the first instance, after Shri Kumaraswamy resigned, why you did not dissolve the Assembly. Why have you not called a special session of the Parliament? Why have you sent your Minister in PMO to Bangalore? Why did you invite Shri M.P. Prakash to come here to Delhi, and, then, made efforts to split that party? Mr. Deve Gowda, the President of the national Janata Dal, has gone on record saying that you tried to split his party. You have not been able to contradict it. ...(Interruptions)..

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, sit down. ...(Interruptions)... You can speak when your chance comes. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, what is this? What is this running commentary? ..(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Narayanasamy ... (Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: He is the Chief Whip, he should restrain himself, otherwise, what will happen is that when a speaker from the Congress Party will speak, he will face the same thing. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Venkaiahji, please proceed. ..(Interruptions)... Please stop it. ...(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ֮֮ߵ ߱ ׾ , ֯ ֯ þֵ ֛ ֛ ? ...(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Pani, allow him to speak. ...(Interruptions).. Mr. Pani, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Venkaiah Naidu, please continue. ...(Interruptions).. Mr. Siddiqui, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, nobody can teach or preach lessons to the Congress Party. They are above everything. They are above everything. I am a small man, Samyji. I am a common man. You are a great Samy, and your party is also a great party. Everybody knows it. But, I am only trying to remind you what happened, from time to time, with regard to Jharkhand, with regard to Goa, with regard to Uttar Pradesh, with regard to other States also... (Interruptions)... Yes, Bihar and even Arunachal Pradesh also which you encouraged...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamyji, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: What has happened in Karnataka is a mockery of democracy. ...(Interruptions)... We are capable of taking them and his party on this. Let us not worry about that. My point is, what has happened in the State of Karnataka is a mockery of democracy. It is a betrayal of the worst kind. It is the lowest ebb of opportunist politics. The level of politics has gone down. The respect for politicians has also gone down. Unfortunately, in this country, if two or three or four people or one or two parties do this, it affects the entire politicians. When you go by flight, when you by train, when you travel in bus, or you meet people, they ridicule politicians, talk about our conduct, and political parties behaviours, it pains you. Because, you cannot say, this party, that man, this man, this exception, that exception; they won't believe that. You enjoyed power for 20 months. You took our support, and now you talk of conditionalities; sometimes, put this suggestion, and, sometimes, put those conditionalities.

(Continued by PK/3G)

PK/3G/4.35

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU (CONTD.): I would like to put on the record that the so-called conditionalities were not about people's welfare, were not about any public issue. Can there be any discussion on issues like "You give this portfolio, I enjoyed it for 20 months, and, again, you will be in the same portfolio." These are matters for mutual consultation by political parties. Some people are saying, they are trying to give an impression, as if we have failed to sign an MoU. MOUs are, normally for setting up a plant in Nandigram, Singur or some other place! This is how the Government and industries come together for an MoU. But I have never seen an occasion where somebody suggested that you sign an MoU for forming the Government, and in which you say that the posting of senior IAS and IPS has to be given to somebody, that too on the stamp paper. This never happens. What has happened to the solemn assurance given to the people of Karnataka in front of lakhs of people is there in front of us. So that being the case, the BJP leadership, after having consultation, decided not to accept this. Sir, in a coalition, I agree that there always has to be some give-and-take approach. We have seen the give-and-take approach of our hon. Prime Minister also, even of the Congress President. After having said that the people who are opposing nuclear deal are enemies of the nation and its development, finally they said "one issue is not the end of the life"! So, that sort of give-and-take approach we are seeing, in the present situation, in the Centre also. That being the case, you say that you are perfect; don't make any attempt; don't come anywhere near to power; don't even ask for reciprocation; you allow us continuously to rule the country and ruin the country. So, this is the attitude. Our friends should understand that these people who have ruled the country for years together, and ruined the country, and now, they are again trying to divide us, ridicule us, and then say, " only we can rule, nobody else can rule; otherwise, we would be back to rule through backdoor; this is not permitted. I am happy that wisdom has finally prevailed upon the Union Government. Having failed in their attempt to split JD (S) once again after this experiment, they have not learnt a lesson, even after having realised that this is not going to succeed. As there is all-round condemnation, they have now come forward and are saying, " if the House agrees for this Resolution that means, the Assembly of Karnataka will be dissolved." This is what the hon. Home Minister has said. He was compelled to say it, because they have exhausted all other methods. Had there been even one per cent of chance, they would not have left it. We have in front of us the live of what has happened in Jharkhand, Goa and also in Bihar. So, with all these experiences, if the Central Government today comes forward before this august House, and says that there is no other way than the dissolution, I am happy about it. That is the resolution of the House. We have to go to the people. Let us go and tell what all you want to talk about me and my Party, other Parties, your former friends, and would-be friend also whom you support as Prime Minister of India. You support him as Prime Minister of India. You have pulled him down, and, again, you entered an alliance with him, and Mr. Narayanasamy, you are saying, "Don't teach us, preach us and all." I am not preaching anything, as I told you, Sir. You have enough experience; we also have enough experience, and people have experiences of both the sides. They have seen what it is. My Government led by Shri B.S. Yeddyurappa could not prove the majority on the floor of the House because the other side betrayed us. The betrayal is one of the major issues. And the backdoor manoeuvring politics of Karnataka, Congress Party headed and supported by Central leadership are all important issues. And the third issue is that Karnataka deserves a better treatment. Karnataka is a forward-moving State. It is a progressive State. A lot of people are looking towards Karnataka. Bangalore is an international destination. So, the people of Karnataka should have at the earliest an elected Government. 1st November was the Rajyotsav day. Sir, please note that these people have denied the people of Karnataka to have their own Government on the 1st November, which is the formation day of Karnataka. Secondly, they appoint in haste advisers also. That means, they have made up their mind. Without exhausting the possibility of formation of a popular Government, without inviting the single largest Party -- whether I am able to prove the majority or not, you should leave it to me -- even without doing it, you appoint Advisers. And, you start reviewing, you start holding meetings. This is a fascination for the Governor, for janata darbars, and holding all these review meetings. This is only a stop-gap arrangement. I am just concluding. This should be an eye-opener to others.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You can't criticise Governors' action.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I am not taking names. I am talking about the institution. Yes, Governor's institution being reduced ..(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): No, please. (Interruptions).. (Followed by 3H/PB)

PB-HMS/3H/4.40

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No; to criticise a Governor, there should be a substantive motion.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: I have. I have, Sir. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No; no; on Governor's act ... ...(Interruptions)... That is not ... ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, the Council of States has got a right ... ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No; no; please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... That is between us. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: No; Sir, it is not between you, him and me. The point is, why we are discussing the issue that we are discussing at present is because it is an act of a Governor. ...(Interruption)... Certainly, we will discuss. Why will we not discuss? ...(Interruptions)... We have to discuss. ...(Interruptions)... It was not an Akashvani. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No; no; please don't make that an issue. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, when we are discussing the recommendations of the Governor, how is it that we will not mention the name of a Governor? ...(Interruptions)... What is this? ...(Interruptions)... What is it? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You can mention. I said, "Don't criticise."

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, it is not an Akashvani. It is not an Akashvani. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You know the rules. ...(Interruptions)... You know the rules. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, it is not an Akashvani. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Venkaiahji is doing a good job. Please proceed. But how much more time do you need?

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, I am only talking about the misuse of the institution of the Governor. This is the point, not per se one individual who is sitting in Bangalore as on now. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: For that, there should be a substantive motion. ...(Interruptions)... You know the rules. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please proceed. ...(Interruptions)...

. ֵ֛ : և ֟, ֜ ֟օ If you want to discuss the individual conduct of an individual Governor, then you need to have a substantive motion. Sir, I mentioned Jharkhand, I mentioned Bihar, I mentioned Goa; I did not mention the names of those Governors who are actively getting indulged into politics and then there was attack on one of the Governors also because he was trying to do politicking in Dimapur. ...(Interruptions)... It is there in front of us, the other day, day-before-yesterday. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, the Sarkaria Commission said, "The party or combination of parties which commands the widest support in the Legislative Assembly should be called upon to form the Government." Did the Governor of Karnataka do this? He didn't. The second is this; "The Governor's task is to see that a government is formed and not to try to form a Government which pursue policies which he approves." This is another recommendation. The third is, "If there is a single party having an absolute majority in the Assembly, the leader of the party should automatically be asked to become the Chief Minister." Then, it says, "If there is no such party, the Governor should select a Chief Minister from among the following parties or groups of parties by sounding them, in turn, in the order of preference indicated below." He did not do that. The Governor did not do it. That point was also not followed. When we made the last attempt of bringing all the Legislators and presenting them before the hon. Rashtrapati and the nation, they were forced or compelled, with no other alternative, except to invite us. That is the situation. They must understand it. The first thing here, Sir, is (i) "an alliance of parties that was formed prior to Elections." It was not formed. Neither Congress-JD(S) nor BJP-JD(S) has formed any alliance. Then, (ii) "The largest single party staking a claim to form the government with the support of others, including 'independents'." The BJP was the largest party. That also was not done. (iii) "The post-electoral coalition of parties, with all the partners in the coalition joining the government." That was our intention. In such a situation, in the Centre also, there are parties which have not joined the Government and the Government in the Centre is a minority Government thriving on the support of external parties, supporting from outside and not joining the Government. The CPI, the CPM, the RSP, the Forward Bloc and other parties have chosen not to join the Government but to support the Government in order to prevent the BJP. That is their stand. They have got every right to take that stand. Similarly, in order to prevent the Congress Party from staging a backdoor entry once again, we have decided to take the support of JD(S) legitimately which we had given to them for twenty months. They betrayed us. They have deceived. It is not Yeddyurappa personally who was deceived. Some people were saying, 000 ָ ֮֯ , ָ ֋օ ֯ ֮ ֻ ־ ֮֯ ָ ֵ ָ ָ ָ ׮ִ ֮֟ ָ ִ֣Ԯ פ ֜ ֻ֮ פ ï™ ֟ ָ ֮ ־ ׻ֵ

The last point that I want to stress, Sir, is that why we need a clear-cut majority because the people have enough experience. If nobody gets majority, these sort of things are likely to happen. That is why, there is a need for a clear-cut majority for a particular party. Sir, which is the party which is the victim? Which is the party which is the front-runner? Which is the party which is the largest in the last year elections? It is the Bhartiya Janata Party.

I am sure, Sir that the people of Karnataka will give a clear-cut verdict in favour of Bhartiya Janata Party. I only urge upon the Government that once this House approves this Resolution today, don't dilly-dally the matter further because you have the courage, you have the conviction, you are taking the bold steps, you demanded the election earlier; so, fix the election date immediately at the earliest.

(Followed by 3j/SKC)

4j/4.45/skc-klg

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): It is already a part of the statement; it is already there.

SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: Sir, it is a part of the statement but holding elections is the only solution, because then they may wait for another six months and rule the State through the back door. This is the point I am trying to make; my point is, without loss of further time, they must approach the Election Commission and take steps. It is the Central Government which has to do this because once the Assembly is dissolved, there would be only the Central Government in the picture. Please see to it that elections are held at the earliest. If you are really interested, if you are really confident of facing the people, then, do not commit the mistake of again trying to prolong it on the plea that ߕ ִ ״ֻ ָ ִ , ִ ״ֻ, ֙ ֣ ֵ , ִ ״ֻ ֮ ֵ ֣ , ָ ֣ ֵ ֵօ ֮ ִ , ָ ܵ ӡ ܵ ӡ ָ ָ ׯϵ֟ ֜ ևԅ ׻֋ in the interest of democracy, as per the spirit of the Constitution, keeping even the S.R. Bommai case and the Bihar Assembly dissolution case in mind, the Assembly should be dissolved forthwith and elections announced immediately.

With these words, Sir, I thank you for having given me this opportunity. (Ends)

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (KARNATAKA): Sir, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. The hon. Member from Karnataka, who was born and bought up in Andhra Pradesh, got elected twice from Karnataka. He has made several charges against the Congress Party with a lot of vehemence.

Sir, the truth is not with him or with his party. In the initial stage, while presenting his case, he had admitted that there was no mandate. I would like to explain things to you and through you, to him and also to this august House. In the 2004 elections, BJP got 79 seats with 28 per cent of the votes; the Congress got 65 seats with about 36 per cent of the votes and the JD(S) got 58 seats with 20 per cent of the votes. For the information of the hon. Member, BJP has lost its deposits in 46 seats; JD(S) has lost deposits in 96 seats and the Congress has lost deposits in only 6 seats. This is the position. Nobody has been given the mandate, not the Congress, not the BJP and not the JD(S). But what had happened? The people of Karnataka did not want their party to run the Government. They are dubbed as communal foes. If the party is given the power, they would saffronise the entire State, as they have done...(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ֯ ֟և, ֵ֮ ? ...(־֮֬)

SHRI SURENDRA LATH: The people have rejected you. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: I did not disturb anyone and heard with rapt attention..(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ָ֙ ֮ ? ׾ֳ֮֕ ֮ ? ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ ( .. ׸֮): ߕ ֯ ך ...(־֮֬)

SHRI SURENDRA LATH: The people have rejected you. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please sit down. (Interruptions) Please stop it, Mr. Pani. Don't make noise unnecessarily. What is this?

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Mr. Pany, I respect you. I am told that you are an honest and simple person and you are unmarried too! So, I respect you, but please listen to me ...(Interruptions)...

Sir, the political situation in Karnataka is stinking. It is most unfortunate and that is why, I rose to speak with some anguish. The people there are disgusted by the dirty, opportunistic politics of the BJP and the Janata Dal, which have tarnished the fair name of Karnataka and caused irreparable damage to the reputation of the State.

(Contd. by 3k/hk)

HK/3k/4.50

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD.): You represent the Council of States from Karnataka. In your speech here you have stated, immediately after the downfall of the Government, our friends rushed to media and gave a statement saying that it was the worst type of betrayal in the Indian history. Let him deny. By whom? By JD(S), not by the Congress. Sir, why did the Congress form Government with JD(S)? It was formed to keep the communal forces out. The understanding arrived that there should be Congress-led Government with Janata Dal for five years, not for twenty months. That was the clear understanding. But what had happened? When twenty months was over, when the Government of Congress and JD(S) was running smoothly, this BJP -- Yeddyurappa and some five or six people -- hatched the conspiracy. They went to the house of Kumaraswamy at that time through the backdoor. It is not stated by me; it is stated by the person who mediated, the famous lawyer, and who defended, he claimed to have defended, ten thousand cases of workers of this party. And they hatched the conspiracy to topple the Government. Why was this betrayal? Why was this conspiracy? It was to get the power. They are power-hungry. I will prove that. The question before the nation is: Is it not betrayal? Is it not cheating? Then, Sir, the Government was formed under the leadership of Shri Kumaraswamy. At that time, our great former Prime Minister started crying before the people. He did not approve it, according to him. He pretended as if he were sick or on death bed. But after the formation of the Government with BJP, he reconciled and appreciated his son. What had happened before that? He stated, it is on record, if the Government is formed it will be on his grave. The Government was formed and it was decided that they would rule the State for twenty months for JD(S) and twenty months for BJP. They were very happy. After that, what had happened? We have not touched them. We did not hatch any conspiracy like them. They themselves quarrelled. Every day, there were statements making allegations against each other. One party was saying that Chief Minister is corrupt and another party Ministers were saying that Chief Minister is not competent and he is corrupt. We did not do anything. They were making allegations against the Chief Minister. (Contd. by 3L/KSK)

KSK/4.55/3L

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD): They have stated that he is a dacoit, and he has swallowed Rs.150 crores in mines deal. The Congress has not made these allegations. It is your party M.L.C., Mr. Bhandary, who has done it. Then, what has he stated? He has stated that this Chief Minister is trying to kill him. He lodged a complaint with the police station. Has the Congress done it? What has the high-command of BJP done here about it? Did they deny it? Did they condemn it? They will not do it. Then, Sir, there was BJP Minister going before the police station and holding dharna and saying that Mr. M.P. Prakash, another Minister of JD(S) Government, should resign making allegations. Has the Congress done it? The BJP is putting blame on Congress. Then, Sir, what has the MLC from BJP done? He has gone to the High Court and he has gone to the Supreme Court saying that these people are corrupt; the Chief Minister of Karnataka is a corrupt fellow and he made lot of money. We have not made that allegation. The BJP wants to put the blame on us. Then, Sir, what have they done? Why has the Government fallen? It is not because of us. Their JD(S) partner has given advertisement in one-and-a-half pages throughout the newspapers of the State making a chargesheet against them stating that they are corrupt; they are anti-secular; the people of Karnataka are not safe in their hands. We have not made it. Then, what has happened? Whether there is truth. Sir, there are...(Interruptions).

Then, Sir, in my district, within a short span of one month, there were communal riots twice. The curfew was imposed. Two Muslims were killed. Did they shed any tears? Then, Sir, there was retaliation also. One Hindu was killed and, then, two Hindus were killed in police firing. That was their governance. That was their rule and they wanted to poison the minds of the people, and it is not our charge; it is the charge of their own partner, who is running day-to-day administration in the Government. Sir, we suffered a lot. Within a short span of two months, once, there was curfew for five days. People were not allowed to go out; no water, no milk, no vegetables. They could not go to shops also. That was the position. And, poor people could not go to work to earn their daily wages. That was the situation. That is the governance these people have given. Shri Venkaiah Naidu is not here. He should hear it. And, they are putting the blame on us, the Congress people. Then, who has withdrawn the support? We have not withdrawn the support. (continued by 3m - gsp)

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