SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (CONTD.): And the UPA is claiming the credit for that. They got tripped into this because they had a very paternal feeling of the river-linking project. And, when the UPA disowned the river-linking project, they thought that they are going to disown all the projects that were started by the NDA. And, therefore, they slipped into the position and started criticising that child which was really their own. That is how they have got fooled. That I can understand. But, what I can't understand is, the position of the CPM. The CPM says that there is going to be a disaster if the Agreement is accepted, but they are prepared to allow that disaster to come rather than run the risk of seeing this side turn to that side. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI TAPAN KUMAR SEN: See the...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: I am not yielding. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Sen, please don't interrupt. ...(Interruptions)... We are sitting very late. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: I think this attitude can be compared to the attitude of Jai Chand who allowed Mohammad Ghori to come in in order to have his revenge on Prithviraj. I think that is the only comparison that can be made. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, in all this argument and counter-argument and obfuscation, there is something that is very important that has happened, and I think, that has passed entirely unnoticed. I often paid compliments to the Prime Minister and his team for having started in 1991 the process of economic reforms, and whether it is the NDA Government or the UPA Government, nobody disowns economic reforms. Some are capable of implementing them; some are not capable of implementing them. ...(Interruptions)... Now, I find that what has happened is, having shaken one of the cobwebs or one of the things that we owned from the old times, we made a departure to economic reforms in 1991, and now we are getting rid of another cobweb, another mindset which unnecessarily attached importance to so-called neutrality or rather under the name of neutrality, a definite tilt towards the USSR. Now, what this Government has done, and I want to compliment for that, is, they are certainly trying to correct that tilt. It might appear like a tilt towards the USA for the time being, but that is important for correcting the tilt we had to the USSR, and now we might be somewhat more or less on a balanced position. There are very few people, Sir, who have caused two revolutions in one single lifetime. And I acclaim Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh for having brought about two revolutions, in 1991 for having put aside the economics of Pandit Nehru, and now for having put aside the economics and romanticism in foreign policy of Pandit Nehru. Thank you very much, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI NARESH GUJRAL (PUNJAB): Sir, I deem it a privilege to rise and express my views on behalf of my party, SAD on this very sensitive issue that confronts the nation today. Sir, Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru's vision has bequeathed to India the broad paradigm of our foreign policy. One of the fundamental principles of our Foreign Policy has been to uphold, preserve and protect the freedom of independent thought and action. It is in this context that we must examine and debate the Indo-US Nuclear Agreement.

Sir, it is a matter of great pride that the Indian economy is growing at almost nine per cent per annum. Today, internationally, the country commands the kind of respect that it didn't before, largely due to our economic and scientific strength. Our entrepreneurs are taking on the world with new-found confidence. Our middle class is expanding rapidly and a huge market has opened up as a result of the responsible economic policies followed by successive Governments since Dr. Manmohan Singh unshackled the economy in 1991.

Sir, since the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, it is an accepted reality that the U.S. is a paramount superpower.

(Contd. by 6p-kgg)


SHRI NARESH GUJRAL (contd.): It is also the largest market in the world. Sir, there is no doubt that it is in India's interest to strengthen ties with the U.S. as we have much in common. Not only are we the largest democracy in the world, but we also share common values and institutions like independent judiciary, free press, respect and tolerance for all religions and equality of opportunity for all our citizens.

Our trade with each other has grown exponentially and the U.S. continues to be our largest trading partner. Yet, while our trade with the U.S. was 30 billion US$ last year, China's trade with the U.S. was 343 billion US$.

Today, a large number of the U.S. companies are investing in our country with renewed vigour not only creating thousands of jobs but also bringing with them modern technology and know how. Sir, internationally both the countries have been victims of terrorism and are determined to fight and eradicate this menace. It is certainly in our national interest to end our nuclear isolation and be accepted by the Nuclear Suppliers Group as a responsible nuclear State which, in turn, would help both our economy and our security.

The world has, for the time being, moved away from proliferation to non-proliferation and India has voluntarily declared that it will not test in the future. Sir, geographically, India, unfortunately, is surrounded by politically destabilised neighbours, be it Myanmar, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan or Sri Lanka. We have been, and continue to be, victims of terrorism much of which has emanated from our neighbourhood. China, unfortunately, but for its own strategic reasons, has been taking undue interest in the affairs of our neighbours and has invested substantially in building their military infrastructure. No responsible Government can ignore this threat and consequently we require the friendship and support of powerful friends like the U.S. as well as other Nuclear Suppliers Group countries to counter any potential mischief from the neighbourhood.

Sir, another compelling reason for ending our nuclear isolation is that a growing economy like ours certainly needs to balance its energy production. With the price of oil hovering around 100 $ a barrel and given the environmental damage, which is caused by thermal and hydro-electric plants, we must increase our reliance on nuclear energy. France generates 85 per cent of its requirements through nuclear power plants while we are languishing at 3-4 per cent. Access to NSG countries who are keen to do business with India, be it Russia, Canada, Australia or France, would accelerate our power production process and lend stability to our nuclear fuel requirements.

Sir, an accommodation with the present non-proliferation establishment is essential if we wish to secure fuel supplies and not waste time and resources on re-inventing the wheel. The fuel situation is critical, if not desperate. Any Government, whatever its complexion, today or tomorrow, will have to secure our energy. What its terms should be is a matter of debate. The price we pay for such an accommodation has to be measured in terms of our national interest. The timing also has to be determined by our judgment as to when the international situation is most favourable.

Sir, there is an old American saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Obviously, while this agreement may be in the mutual interest of both the nations, it is being offered with some attendant conditions as are mentioned in the 123 agreement which, according to the Government, insulates us from the Hyde Act, but according to many respected opposition leaders, is, in the ultimate analysis, an extension of the Hyde Act. Since much has been spoken about these conditions by my senior colleagues, I shall refrain from repeating them.

(Contd. by kls/6q)


SHRI NARESH GUJRAL (CONTD): Despite these conditions, Sir, some eminent citizens of India which include former Army, Navy and Air Chiefs, former Chairman of Atomic Energy Commission, and high ranking civil servants, in an open letter to Members of Parliament have expressed their opinion that the deal cannot get better for India. We respect their opinion.

Sir, historically we have learnt from our freedom struggle how to withstand all kind of pressure and walk tall with dignity and self-respect. Time and again we have shown courage and acted in our national interest without fear whether it was in 1974 when Mrs. Gandhi ordered the first test or our refusal to succumb to international pressure on CTBT or once again when Shri Vajpayee ordered the 2nd peaceful explosion in 1998.

Each time, we were isolated for a while before getting back to the international mainstream. ...(Interruptions).. (Time-bell).. Sir, this is my maiden speech. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, my party believes that we must not accept any conditions which may cripple or put fetters on our peaceful nuclear programme in the future, as we cannot jeopardise our very existence given the regional architecture.

We are in a unique position today - we are the world's largest secular democracy with an independent judiciary. We have attained economic and scientific strength that the whole world admires; we offer a huge market, which would be equal to China's in a few years and we have a young educated population, which will be our greatest asset in the future.

Personally, I have deep respect for the Prime Minister. His integrity and patriotism is beyond reproach. I am certain that he has carefully examined all the aspect of the treaty in great detail.

However, Sir, in a parliamentary democracy, it is wise to evolve a national consensus especially over such a vital issue -- this has been our tradition. I would urge the Government to respect the collective wisdom of our Parliament. There are no differences amongst us about the ultimate objective, what divides us, is the strategy to achieve those objectives.

An impression is being sought to be created by various interested lobbies that it is now or never for this agreement. Artificial deadlines are being talked of, and it is being said that after President Bush, it would be impossible for the next U.S. President to revive the treaty. This sic completely erroneous.

Sir, foreign policies are never static but always dynamic. It is as much an America's strategic interest as ours to befriend and strengthen each other. The next U.S. President will be as keen to conclude this deal with India as the present administration as it also in their national interest to forge closer ties with us.

Sir, my party believes that since there is no real deadline to sign this agreement, the Government should commit the country only when there is political unanimity on this issue.

Meanwhile, the Government must take all steps to safeguard and not mortgage our nuclear independence. This is a prerequisite to India emerging as a future global power, which is second to none. Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI (WEST BENGAL): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, ֬ ә ״ֻ?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): It is already midnight. ...(Interruptions)... Anyhow, you are not making your maiden speech. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, there is a lot of demand for me to speak so I hope you will consider that. Sir, I am definitely making a maiden speech at 11.15 at night because I have never made it earlier. Sir, like the saying goes, the wise one has the last word. And thank you very much for giving me the last word. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, -ָ - ֟ ׮, ִ ֌ we definitely need energy. There is no just way out. Now the debate is what kind of energy we need, that is one debate. And the second point which has come out is, who is more nationalistic and the third which is also very important that ֮ٛ ֮ , ִ energy ֟ , ָ synergy ֟ ֤ ԅ synergy ָ ? Hyde Act ֟ , there is hide and seek, they were hiding in their act of Nandigram in that Coordination Committee and seeking the blessings that... (Contd by 6R/SSS)


SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI (CONTD.): և ꮙ ԕ ֟ ֮, ߲߆և ֟ ֮ I seek your blessing ֯ ֮ , և IAEA և, ֮ , և Sir, it is very open. Sir, I don't want to give those kinds of definition that they bark and they don't bite , ևؙ , , օ So, I don't want to use such phrases. But they themselves say that if need comes, 'we will bite also'. So, it is very clear that all along * -- not so much of the Left but at least CPM -- is coming out. פ , ֯ ײֻ ֟ ֟ ׸, ֯ ֋, ֋ , IAEA ߱ ֋ , ߱ ֟ ֟ ׸, ֯ - ֟

Then, Nandigram came and the entire hell broke loose ֋, ֕ ֟ ֮ ָ , ָ ߮֕ ֟ ֤ և, ־֮, ֯ ֓ , ֯ ֮ , ׾ֵ֮ ֮ , և ׾ֵ֮, ֮ ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Translation is not coming.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: ֋ ..(־֮֬)..Sir, the point is, you look at their condition. The entire country is watching the drama and the * . First, they say, 'you are not going to see the girl at all.' The moment you see the girl we are just going to get out of it. This is again a love affair which is going on. Then, they say that, 'all right, for marriage you can go and see the girl but don't get married. The

moment you get married, I will divorce'. ן-֟ ֯ ֛ , ױ ֟ I know ultimately what will come. Ultimately,

they will come with a demand. Even Nandigram is hotting up. Their sins are coming out in the open. How they have killed, how they have compromised, all these things are today out in the open. Ultimately, what will happen is, they will say, 'all right, you go and get married but don't produce children'. They will have such conditions also.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Is this is a speech on marriage counselling?

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: No, no, I have seen your marriage with the Congress. That marriage counselling I can see it very well. Sir, Sitaramji was saying, 'you are mortgaging the country and the country's interest.' Sir, let me tell you and with all seriousness, I had been and we had been in the Congress and I was very proud of it.

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)

Sir, if anybody has truly fought the freedom struggle, it is Gandhiji, Nehruji or Indira Gandhiji. Nehruji was in prison at the prime of his life. So, if anybody knows what nationality is, I don't have to say, nationalism is nothing but Congress has talked and I definitely have been very proud that I was associated. But, where did the problem come from? Sir, the problem came when a good apple gets contaminated with a bad one.

ֲ ֮ ִ ֲָ ß ֟ , ֲָ in that


* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

sense is a word. Please don't take it as derogatory. ideology contaminated և, the moment they came in touch with the CPM. That is where they have got totally haywire and I have no doubt about it that one-day and that day is also coming very, very soon and they will realise. Their intentions are all genuine.

ֳ֯ן : ֵ 挻ߵָ Deal ָ ׻֋

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: But, Sir, I have to tell you with a heavy heart...

(Followed by NBR/6S)


SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, 'nuclear' starts with 'N' and 'Nandigram' also starts with 'N.' That is why he is clubbing both.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: But, with a heavy heart, I must tell you...(Interruptions)...

SHRI DIGVIJAY SINGH: Sir, 'Natwar Singh' also starts with 'N.'...(Interruptions)...'N' for 'Nandigram', 'nuclear' and 'Natwar Singh.'

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, I am telling you with a heavy heart that even my friends in the Congress Party have love for the nuclear deal. I am not, for a moment, casting any aspersions. They listened to them and did not act on Nandigram. People of Nandigarm were killed. But, our friends in the Congress looked at the other side. Who are getting killed? There were minorities, children.


SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: I know. I am coming back to nuclear deal...(Interruptions)...Before you could tell me...(Interruptions)...People of Nandigram...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Trivedi, you are in the Panel of Vice-Chairmen. You should know the problem.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: I know the problem, Sir.

But, what surprises me the most is that for the last two years the entire Parliament is seized of the nuclear deal only, as if this country is so rich, everybody has a full belly, everybody sleeps well, everybody has a house and this is what the most problematic area. Sir, I would like to ask the Government whether nuclear deal is life and death for this country. Don't we have other problems in the country? Yes, by all means, if you think that your nuclear deal with the US is going to solve all the problems of the poorest of the poor, I have no objection. But, I want to ask a question. Somebody was talking about Panditji's and Gandhiji's philosophy of self-reliance. 껱 ׸ֵ ִ ֵ 껱 ֛ ֵօ From 'self-reliance' the word 'self' goes away what remains we know that.

AN HON. MEMBER: Reliance Industry.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: I did not say that. People are saying that. From 'self-reliance', the word 'self' has lost somewhere...(Interruptions)...I will tell you the logic of opposing...(Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ֋օ Everybody has taken time. -߮ ״֮֙ ֟

פ ס־ : ֯ ֮ Sir, one logic which comes to me is, if the CPM opposes this deal, then this deal has to be very good. I tell you why. The logic is: when the first computer came to Kolkata, they were the first one to oppose it. And, they are running after IT industries now. Even from that logic, I personally feel, if the CPM is opposing this deal could be good.

Look at our education. This country needs roti, kapda aur makaan. Sir, only yesterday's newspaper carried out this article that India has slipped down five ranks since last year to 105 on global education parameters, leading to fears that the country would miss most of the Millennium Development Goals for its children, according to the UNESCO's study. Sir, girl's dropout is 66%. The reason I am mentioned all these figures is that...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Trivedi, unfortunately, you are the last speaker and you will have to bear the brunt...(Interruptions)...

פݾֵ֕ : ָ, ָ֙

SHRI NATWAR SINGH: I have said so earlier on...

ֳ֯ן : ֙ ..(־֮֬).. ֲ ֻօ ֯ ?

פݾֵ֕ : ׾֤ ӡ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ׾֤ ӡ?

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have seen the ruling...(Interruptions)...I will give my ruling...(Interruptions)...

SHRI NATWAR SINGH: Sir, I had asked Prof. Kurien when he was sitting in the Chair...(Interruptions)...I said I will speak at the end and he has named me...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has named you. But...(Interruptions)...

SHRI NATWAR SINGH: I charge...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You cannot charge...(Interruptions)...You cannot have everything...(Interruptions)... (FOLLOWED BY VP "6T")


SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI (CONTD.): Sir, in this country, I think, poor people are seized of much larger issues of education, health and corruption. ֮ ֟ ........(־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ך,......(־֮֬)

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: I am telling you this with all responsibility. ..(Interruptions).. Sir, I am concluding by saying that if...(Interruptions).. I know your compulsion. The Left is not going to last long with you. With the Left, the nuclear deal will also go. Sir, the point is very clear. In between, Sir, I must read this because Atalji was misquoted.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: What are you reading?

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, give me one minute.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have not been misquoted.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: You must listen to the full sentence. The sentence was not completed. He says that, 'yes', the NPT can be signed provided all the other countries also sign. As per article 14, without any restriction, we will sign if all other countries also sign." So, half sentence was read. Full sentence was not read. So, in all fairness, I just thought that I will clarify that. We were part of the Government, so, I know that thing.

In conclusion I would say about the things which I had narrated. Is your nuclear deal going to take care of the last man on the street? They all keep on talking about the trickle-down effect. I was talking to Shri Rahul Bajaj. I said, "You people go to Taj Hotel, have food there ֓ That is what is known as the trickle-down effect. ֓ ֟ , ָ ֋ So, there is no trickle-down effect there also. Sir, if India is going to sort out the problems of the last man on the street, which I just narrated, then, we are all for the deal. But, I am not very certain whether we are actually, focussing ourselves on the Aam Admi, which is your slogan. Aam Admi is what India is all about. India lives in the villages. The villages should get their life blood. And, you have to tell us also, which you did not, that once you get this nuclear deal, will it be only stuck to Reliance, Tatas or others, or, will it be spent for irrigation, which is our life blood. Today if we are surviving here, it is thanks to our farmers and our labourers. If that is what is going to happen, I think, the country also needs to listen to you. Thank you very much to listen to me. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Natwar Singhji, you have accepted that what Shri Digvijay Singhji has said is right, so, there is no need for any clarification. The House is adjourned to meet tomorrow at 11.00 a.m.


The House then adjourned at twenty-eight minutes

past eleven of the clock till eleven of the clock

on Wednesday, the 5th December 2007.