PREVIOUS HOUR

-TMV/VK-SCH/1M/12.00

The House reassembled at twelve of the clock,

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.

-------

ק: ָ, ָ ...(־֮֬) ָ ֻ ...(־֮֬)

شری شاہد صدیقی : سر، آگرہ میں آگ لگی ہوئی ہے۔۔مداخلت۔۔ پورا آگرہ جل رہا ہے۔۔مداخلت۔۔

ָ : ָ, ָ ֻ ...(־֮֬)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Papers to be laid on the Table. PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE

SHRI OSCAR FERNANDES: Sir, I lay on the Table

I. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Labour and Employment, Notification G.S.R. 465 (E) dated the 4th July, 2007, publishing the Employees State Insurance (Central) (1st Amendment) Rules, 2007, under sub-section (4) of section 97 of the Employees State Insurance Act, 1948.

II. A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications of the Ministry of Labour and Employment, Directorate General of Employment and Training, under sub-section (3) of section 37 of the Apprentices Act, 1961:-

(1)           G.S.R. 430(E) dated the 15th June, 2007, publishing the Apprenticeship (Second Amendment) Rules, 2007.

(2)           G.S.R. 467(E) dated the 5th July, 2007, publishing the Apprenticeship (Third Amendment) Rules, 2007.

(3)           G.S.R. 488(E) dated the 16th July, 2007, publishing the Apprenticeship (Fourth Amendment) Rules, 2007.

III. A copy (in English and Hindi) of the Maritime Labour Convention, 2006, adopted by the International Labour Conference at its 94th Session, Geneva, February, 2006.

SHRI SHRIPRAKASH JAISWAL: Sir, I lay on the Table a copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following delay statements of the Ministry of Home Affairs:-

(1)                                               Delay statement regarding G.S.R. 315 dated the 17th September, 2005, publishing the Central Industrial Security Force, Fire Wing, Subordinate Ranks, Group C Posts Recruitment Rules, 2005.

(2)                                               Delay statement regarding G.S.R. 316 dated the 17th September, 2005, publishing the Central Industrial Security Force, Security Wing, Subordinate Ranks, Group C Posts Recruitment Rules, 2005.

(3)                                               Delay statement regarding G.S.R. 1 dated the 7th January, 2006, publishing the Central Industrial Security Force, Para Medical Staff (Combatised) Recruitment Rules, 2005.

SHRI DINSHA J. PATEL: Sir, I lay on the Table, a copy (in English and Hindi) of the Production Sharing Contract signed between the Government of India (Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas) and the Niko Resources Limited for exploration of oil and gas in respect of block CB-ONN-2000/2.

SHRI ASHWANI KUMAR: Sir, I lay on the Table, under sub-section (2H) of section 29B of the Industries (Development and Regulation) Act, 1951, a copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications of the Ministry of Commerce & Industry (Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion):-

 

(1) S.O. 1169 (E), dated the 17th July, 2007, publishing the Newsprint Control (Amendment) Order, 2007.

 

(2) S.O. 1361 (E), dated the 6th August, 2007, publishing the Newsprint Control (Amendment) Order, 2007.

SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH: Sir, I lay on the Table, under section 48 (3) of the Coffee Act, 1942, a copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Commerce and Industry, (Department of Commerce), Notification G.S.R. 363 (E) dated the 21st May, 2007, publishing the Coffee Board Employees (Probation) Rules, 2007, together with delay statement. (Ends)

 

 

 

MESSAGE FROM LOK SABHA

THE APPROPRIATION (RAILWAYS) NO. 3 BILL, 2007.

SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following message received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:-

"In accordance with the provisions of rule 96 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to enclose the Appropriation (Railways) No. 3 Bill, 2007, as passed by Lok Sabha at its sitting held on the 23rd August, 2007.

2. The Speaker has certified that this Bill is a Money Bill within the meaning of article 110 of the Constitution of India."

Sir, I lay a copy of the Bill on the Table of the House.

(Ends)

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have to inform Members that the following letter has been received from Shri Rajkumar Dhoot stating that he may not be able to attend the House due to his indifferent health and prior commitments. He has, therefore, requested for grant of leave of absence from the 20th August to 14th September, 2007 of the current Session of the Rajya Sabha.

Does he have the permission of the House to remain absent from 20th August to 14th September, 2007 of the current Session of the Rajya Sabha?

(No hon. Member dissented)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Permission to remain absent is granted.

(Ends)

 

MOTION FOR ELECTION TO THE CENTRAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE NATIONAL CADET CORPS

 

THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI A.K. ANTONY): Sir, I move the following Motion:-

"That in pursuance of clause (i) of sub-section (I) read with sub-section

(IA) of section 12 of the National Cadet Corps Act, 1948 (XXXI of 1948), this House do proceed to elect, in such manner as the Chairman may direct, one Member from among the Members of the House, to be a Member of the Central Advisory Committee for the National Cadet Corps."

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

(Ends)

(Followed by RG/1n)

RG/PSV/12.05/1N

 

STATEMENT RE. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS CONTAINED IN NINETY-EIGHTH REPORT OF DEPARTMENT-RELATED PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, TOURISM AND CULTURE

 

THE MINISTER OF CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI PRAFUL PATEL): Sir, I lay a statement regarding status of implementation of recommendations contained in the Ninety-eighth Report of the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Transport, Tourism and Culture.

(Ends)


STATEMENTS RE. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS CONTAINED IN THE SIXTY-SEVENTH REPORT OF DEPARTMENT-RELATED PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE

AND

STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS CONTAINED IN THE SEVENTY-THIRD REPORT OF DEPARTMENT-RELATED PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE

 

THE MINISTER OF STATE OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY (SHRI JAIRAM RAMESH): Sir, I lay the statements regarding (a) status of implementation of recommendations contained in the Sixty-seventh Report of the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Commerce; and (b) status of implementation of recommendations contained in the Seventy-third Report of the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Commerce. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now some hon. Members have mentioned that they were not able to express their parties' concern..(Interruptions) I will call you...(Interruptions) So, it was agreed in the morning that issues would be just brought to the notice of the Government, in the sense, only two minutes would be taken by each Member. I am saying this because there are other items on the Agenda...(Interruptions)

ק : ָ, ָ ...(־֮֬)... ָ և ֻ ...(־֮֬)...

شری شاہد صدیقی : سر آگرہ میں ۔۔مداخلت۔۔ آگرہ اس ٹائم جل رہا ہے ۔۔مداخلت۔۔

ֳ֯ : ָ ֟֟ ...(־֮֬)... ֯ ׸ ...(־֮֬)... ֯ י ו֋ ...(־֮֬)... י ו֋ ...(־֮֬)...

ק : ָ, ֻ ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)...

شری شاہد صدیقی : سر، وہ ابھی جل رہا ہے ۔۔مداخلت۔۔ وہاں ابھی آگ لگی ہے۔۔مداخلت۔۔

ֳ֯ : ...(־֮֬)... ֣ 0 ...(־֮֬)... ֣ 0 ...(־֮֬)...

ִ ֕ʹ : ָ, ֮ ...(־֮֬)...

شری ابو عاصم اعظمی : سر، وہاں بہت نقصان ہو رہا ہے ۔۔مداخلت۔۔

ֳ֯ : ...(־֮֬)... , ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)... ֣ 0 ...(־֮֬)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : ָ, ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ן : ֋, simultaneously ֯ ֲ ֲ ...(־֮֬)... ֯ - , ֟և ...(־֮֬)... ֯ ך ...(־֮֬)... ֵ ...(־֮֬)... ֯ ׻֋

RE: BOMB-BLASTS IN HYDERABAD (CONTD.)

SHRI EKANATH K. THAKUR (MAHARASHTRA): Sir, on behalf of my party, Shiv Sena, I join the House in offering our condolences to the bereaved families. Sir, we condemn the attacks in the strongest possible terms. My party leader, Shiv Sena Pramuk, Shri Balasaheb Thackery, has been warning the Indian polity, from time to time, that we are taking these attacks in an individual way, as if they are the attacks on cities, on people, on mosques or mandirs. But these are the attacks on the nation, and my leader has expressed, from time to time, that Indian nation has not only to survive but it has to also prevail. Therefore, instead of being a soft State, we have to become a hard State and we have to come down heavily on the terrorists everywhere. Sir, the Government does not have the courage to attack the camps in Pakistan, Bangladesh and elsewhere.

I have only three points to make. No.1; please send the strongest message to that nation by hanging Afzal today itself. It is the demand of the Shiv Sena Party that Afzal should be hanged, and all the terrorists should be given the message. Secondly, dismiss the Andhra Pradesh Government. The third demand of my party is, restore POTA. These things have to be done. Otherwise, this Government will be considered a Government of *

(Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri D. Raja. Not present...(Interruptions) SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: The Home Minister is not present here.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: This is not a discussion and I cannot direct the Government...(Interruptions) There are Cabinet Ministers here...(Interruptions) Shri Syed Azeez Pasha.

֤ ߕ ֿ (֮ Ϥ): ֳ֯ן , 24 ß ֲԸ ...(־֮֬)... ָ, ֲ֤ 24 ß ԙ , ו֮֟ ׮֮ ֋, ...(־֮֬)... ֲԸ ...(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, please,...(Interruptions) We have to respect whatever we agreed ti in the Chamber. Only one Member from each party or individual groups will be given a chance to speak, and not all. (Followed by 1O)

* Expunged as Ordered by the Chair.
1o/12.10/ks-hms

֤ ߕ ֿ : כ ָ ָ, ֟ ֮ ֺ ֟פ ֕ օ ֲ , ָ, ֌ Õ֤ Ù פ ֤ ָ ִֻ ֟ , օ 00և0 ֻ ֵ , ָ ןָ ֟ߕ ׮օ

ָ, Ӳ֮ ֙ ӛָ lethal particles ßֻ ֋ ֌ Õ֤ lethal particles ßֻ ֋, modus operandi ֻ , ו֮ ߅ ִֻ , ֟ ִֻ ֙ ؙ ֮ ֿ־ָ֟ suggestions ־֮Դ פ

ָ -߮ ֟ ֕ ו֮֟ ֤֟ , hitech methodology և , ָ ꌵ׸ counter ׻֋ ֮ hitech methodology ? ָ , ָ, ֲ ֟ ֮ ָ high alert red alert ֮ ꌵ׸ ׻֋ ֱ ֤ ׻ פ high alert red alert day , ֳ ִ

ָ ֌ narrow political consideration ִֵ ֤֟ ״ֻ, ֲֻ ָ և ֮ օ

(ִ֯)

ֳ֯ : Ӭ ֤֕

Ӭ ֤֕ (ָ Ϥ) : , ֲ֤ ֙ ֤֟ ָ ֌ֻ־֤ ָ ֙ , ܵ ִ֕ ֮ ӯ ֙ خ֤

, ֤ ִ֬ ִ ִ , "׮ֵ , ָ ָ ָ ׮־ָ פ ֋ ׮ֵ " , ָָ ֮ ™ ֤֟ , ֌ֻ־֤ , -- ָ ֺ ׻֋ ֵ ִõ ׮ָ ׻֋ ״ן ֮և ֋ ־ ָ ֟ ֋ ֲ ִõ ׮־ָ ֮ օ ֣--֣ ֲֻ ׻֋ ֮ ֋ ףֵָ ֋ ß-ß ֵ֮ ֋ ֲ ׮־ָ ӳ־ , ֿ , ָ ָָ ָ ֺ ֵԾ ߅ ֣ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ (ִ֯)

ֳ֯ : 0 ֹ ֕

DR. BARUN MUKHERJEE (WEST BENGAL): Sir, on behalf of our Party, the All India Forward Block, I also condemn this heinous act of violence and bloodshed caused by bomb blasts that killed about 42 innocent people. It is a matter of serious concern. We should not look at it as an isolated incident. Starting from Bombay, Benaras, and then to Hyderabad and Delhi, all these incidents appear to be inter-linked. There is a strong hint that some foreign hand may be involved here. If this is a fact, then it is high time the hon. the Home Minister conducted thorough investigation into the whole matter and found out if there was any major plot behind it. The Home Minister should also come out with some positive analysis as also measures that need to be taken. It is unfortunate that when the whole country is bleeding and so many innocent people are dying people are trying to pass the buck. It is no time to pass on the buck whether it is the Centre passing the buck to the State or it is the State passing the buck to the Centre.

(Contd. by 1p/tdb)

TDB/1P/12.15

DR. BARUN MUKHERJEE (CONTD.): But it is a matter of national importance. So, it is not the point to be debated here in whose jurisdiction this will come. The major responsibility lies, definitely, with the hon. Home Minister and he should take all such effective measures in this regard. In order to determine the jurisdiction of one State or the Centre, if that be the point, if necessary, a constitutional amendment should also be made.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

DR. BARUN MUKHERJEE: But effective measures must be taken to stop all these serious series of attacks on the innocent people of our country. Thank you very much, Sir.

(Ends)

SHRI TIRUCHI SIVA (TAMIL NADU): Sir, we have the proud privilege of being the largest democracy in the world. But, it is sad to note that life has become insecure to the common man in this country, whether in an amusement park or in a chaat shop or on the road, anywhere. How many more innocent lives are we going to lose? We are afraid that the international terrorism is stretching its wretched hands. To quote our leader, I should say, "If there is an issue between two persons, it turns out to be a quarrel. If there is an issue between two countries, it turns out to be a war." But, here there is no quarrel, there is no war, but still so many innocent people have become victims of these terrorists' heinous acts. Sir, expressing grief and sorrow and passing resolutions are not solutions to this problem. The way we discuss, the decisions we arrive at and the way we implement it, alone will feed hope into the minds of these people.

Sir, I would like to suggest only one or two things to the hon. Home Minister. The weapons and the technology used by the police personnel must be modernised. The intelligence force must be strengthened. This would send a ray of hope to the people that hereafter such things won't recur here in this country. Sir, I on behalf of my party DMK, while condemning this heinous act, share the grief of those people and the family members who have lost their near and dear ones. Thank you very much, Sir.

(Ends)

MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR (ORISSA): Sir, taking the lives of innocent persons in Hyderabad bomb blasts reminds us all of the similar incidents of killing innocent people by terrorists in Mumbai. This also reminds us of our insufficient and ineffective efforts to nab terrorists and their nefarious designs. Sir, the POTA which was introduced by the NDA Government has been withdrawn by the UPA Government. This should again be brought into operation to control terrorist activities in the country. We should stand united to condemn this cowardly act and take a resolve to discourage recurrence of such acts in future.

(Ends)

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (MAHARASHTRA): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, it is with great grief that I pay homage to those killed in Hyderabad explosions. My grief is even greater because ten of the victims happened to come from the college very near where I stay, from the Amrut College of Sangamner. And my grief is even greater because I tried to warn the Principal of the college that it was dangerous to take the students to Hyderabad within a week of the attack on the Bangladesh writer Taslim in Hyderabad, where not only was she attacked, but the attack was defended by certain quarters and a prize was announced for her head. Unfortunately, I could not save these students. The question that is to be raised is, how are we going to stop it in future? I agree with hon. Sitaram Yechury that even when POTA was alive, there was an attack on the Parliament, and, therefore, mere POTA cannot stop further acts of terrorism. What is important is something more aggressive, something more effective than POTA. And, I would suggest that Dr. Alexander's six steps can be implemented. If the Government takes immediate steps to declare a partial emergency to deal with the situation of terrorism, that would permit the Government to take the kind of action that Dr. Alexander suggested. Thank you very much, Sir. (Ends)

(Followed by 1q-kgg)

kgg/1q/12.20

SHRI RAM JETHMALANI (NOMINATED): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, this is an occasion which is pregnant with very, very dangerous potentialities. What has happened is tragic and it is very difficult to suppress one's anger and excitement when one is speaking in the House. Mere expressions of sympathies for those who have lost their lives or for the kith and kin are just not enough. What calls for by this tragic situation is deep introspection. And, Sir, deep introspection requires, first of all, that we must eschew party politics completely. We must stick to strict truth, seek to discover the truth and seek to lay the blame where it ought to lie.

Sir, first of all, I wish to cure this Government of some Constitutional superstitions. Terrorism is not a State-subject. Terrorism is not even an aggravated form of public order. Terrorism, the Supreme Court has held, falls within the entry of defence of India which is exclusively the entry of legislative competence and executive competence by the Centre. Therefore, Sir, what has happened in Hyderabad and events like that are certainly not within the purview of the State Governments. They are primarily within the purview of the Government, the Ministry which deals with the defence of this country. If the Defence Minister in this country thinks that it is a matter for the Home Minister and the Home Minister thinks that this is a matter for the State Governments, Sir, these superstitions must go and the responsibility must be located where it lies.

Sir, I do not agree, at all, that law and more law is the solution of this problem. Mere law is only an escape route for incompetent enforcement of the present law, and it is an excuse for the incompetent politicians whose duty it is to enforce the law. POTA did only two things: denial of bail and confessions to the police being admissible; otherwise, Sir, every act of terrorism involves a serious offence of murder which is the most serious offence known to the law and everything that you can do for the murder, you can do for terrorism.

The most important thing is, this is a case of total failure of our intelligence. I want to know who is the Minister who is in-charge of our intelligence agencies and who is evaluating the intelligence which is received from time to time.

Sir, the House is entitled to know this, the House must be taken into confidence. I want the Minister to tell the House that during the last five years at least, after September 11, 2001, six years have gone by, what information has been received from our intelligence agencies, who are receiving not only salaries but in whose hands and control is the large amount of public money, which is being spent without any transparency or accounts. The second is, to whom is this information conveyed? Who is assessing this information? The third is, was the information ever assessed? Whose duty it was to respond to that information? Whose duty it was to act upon that response by taking concrete steps to meet that grave situation?

Sir, obviously, nothing of the kind has happened in the last six years. The House should be taken into confidence and the Ministers have a lot to explain. This explanation must be called for at the earliest possible opportunity. Sir, let me say one more thing. For successful intelligence, what you require is experts in infiltration. These are the things which, I personally think, even our Ministers are not aware of.

(Contd. by sss/1r)

SSS-NB/12.25/1R

SHRI RAM JETHMALANI (CONTD.): You require experts who can infiltrate into every organisation, which you suspect, and that information must then, by a well known experienced hand and espionage must be communicated to the proper authorities and suitable action taken. Sir, I regret to say, that I am, at the moment, of the opinion that until and unless material is forthcoming from the Government, which will dispel my suspicion, which is almost a conviction today, there has been a situation in which some heads must roll. If this country is to be saved we must put in charge more competent people. That is all I wish to say.

(Ends)

ָ֮ (׸) : כ ָ , ָ כ ״׮Ù , פ , fall-out ? ֲ֤, international sports city ֮ , ֲ Afro-Asian Games ֕ ֲָ ֵ International Badminton Tournament, ֲ֤ ֻ , cancel ֵ , ָ ֲָ և ֲ֤ , Ù׻ֵ ֻ refuse , ָ, ֻ Army Games are scheduled to be held 100 countries ֮ ֻ , ָ֟ World Games ָ כ ֻ , ?

ֳ֯ן , ׾֮֟ ֲ , ֟ ֟ ß֮ , ָ scapegoat , ֤ ִֻ ֟, ִ ֻ ֵ ָ , ß֮ ֻ ִ ֟ ֟ ָ ֟ ָָ ׻ ßֻ ֤֟ , religious body religion ӕֲ , 30,000 ׮֤ ֌ kill ֵ, ֤֟ ֟ ָ և ֋ ֤֟ ֕ ִ ֣ ػ , ֤֟ ִ ׾֮֟ ׸ֻ ׻ֵ ֋ ׯ֔ , ָָ ָ ִ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)

֕ ֕ߚ (ӕֲ) : ָֻ ָ , ׿ָ ֻ ָ ֙ ָ ְ خ֤ ӕֲ terrorism ֮ ָ߸ ָ ָָ ָ֮ ֟ , ֣ ֟ ϯ̻ , ִ ֻ֮ ָ intelligence ֲ ָֻ , ֲ intelligence ָ ֛ , ֟ ָ ܟ action ָ intelligence ֮ ̲֕ ָ ֟ ֲ ֣, ֯ ֮־֤ ִֻ ָ ֈ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, I am not trying to seek some kind of a bonus for speaking as a second Congressman. But, as an eyewitness to the entire episode, let me tell you first, as a shocked Hyderabadi I am really grateful to the entire House for the kind of solidarity they have expressed, the kind of concern you have shown.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reddy, what is it? (Interruptions)

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: I was not in my seat. He went on to say that my Leader was away in a marriage. In fact, he came out in between the marriage. It is not fair to make such an allegation...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no, please sit down. Don't raise this. Some serious discussion is going on. (Interruptions)

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: I am telling you as far as I am concerned, I do not want to mix politics at all into this field. There is no gainsaying that the elders who took part in the debate today did not mix politics at all except for two or three interventions that you did.

MR. DEPUTY CHARIMAN: Please keep up that.

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: I am one of those who do that, Sir. Let me tell you, I am thanking TDP, I am thanking CPI for the first time. Soon after the incident we had an all-party meeting. The kind of suggestions that TDP gave -- because the person who joined us was none less than the former Home Minister -- showed us how SIT has done, how the CBI failed. He took the floor for half an hour and gave suggestions.

(Contd. by NBR/1S)

-SSS/NBR-VNK/1S/12.30.

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO (CONTD.): I was the first person who said, 'All that he has said should be unanimously accepted.' It is only on your advice a SIT has been constituted. First you had asked for a Judicial Commission. But, later, when I and the Government joined the issue, you dropped it. I am also thankful to the BJP. Sir, the next day we had an All-Party public meeting where the BJP President said on the platform that ֮ ִָ ִָ ֤ ֮ ָ߱ , ֮ ָ߱ ֮ ֮ MIM ֋ MIM ֻ ֟ ָ ֕ Every party joined us to condemn it and gave suggestions. As far as the Government is concerned, we said that if there is anything to be corrected, we would correct it. If there are any things that are wanting...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hanumantha Rao, please ...(Interruptions)...

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: This is not an occasion at all to bring politics. Let me tell you that any attack on individual citizen is an attack on India and attack on India's soul. And, what you are leaving is indelible. This will remain for decades in the minds. So, we have to look at terrorism as a whole. As my DMK friend has rightly said, 'if two people fight, it is a quarrel. If two nations fight, it is a war.' But, we are not known what exactly terrorism is, because it runs in anonymity. Extremism is different from that. We have been able to grapple with extremism. We have been able to grapple with naxalism. We have been able to face the ULFA. We are facing the LTTE. We are facing everything. But, we are not able to control terrorism for the simple reason that it operates anonymously. We have all the studies made what kind of situation it takes advantage of. It is unfortunate...(Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ : ֯ ׻֋, ֯ ׻֋

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: Sir, I said all this requires...(Interruptions)...I understand that you are a great thinker. If your extra-sensory powers can tell us who created this, please tell us so that we can solve it ...(Interruptions)...I don't have any extra-sensory power. So, let us really concentrate to say that Hyderabad is, unfortunately, becoming, if not emerging, some kind of a centre. We are all concerned. We are really concerned about it...(Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : ֯ ֣ ״ֻ ־ ֛ .. (־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ֯ ך, יָ , .. (־֮֬).. Nothing will go on record...(Interruptions)...Nothing will go on record ...(Interruptions)..Please sit down...(Interruptions)...This is wrong ...(Interruptions)...No, no. ?.. (־֮֬).. ߕ ך ִ ֯ ׻֋.. (־֮֬)..

׾ֵ֮ יָ : *

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Katiyar, this is not correct ...(Interruptions)...You have not been allowed...(Interruptions)...You are completely disturbing the House...(Interruptions)...Please sit down ...(Interruptions)...I have not identified you...(Interruptions)...Please sit down...(Interruptions)...֯ ך ֲ ֯ ִֵ ֋ ֲ ֯ ׻֋օ Nothing will go on record of what he is saying...(Interruptions)...

Please conclude...(Interruptions)...֯ ׸ ֋օ ָ״ֿ֮ ֯ , nothing will go on record.

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: Sir, therefore, any good suggestion given by all political parties, including the Samajwadi Party, will be accepted. We want to do it. We understand it. This is like a great demon which has to be fought against by all. The Government alone cannot do it. There cannot be a better person than Shri Jethmalani who explained how the Centre is responsible. Nonetheless, the State Chief Minister got up to say...(Interruptions)...It is my last sentence. He said a disaster has happened. Somebody has to be responsible. Here is the first Chief Minister in the country who got up and said that something did happen. So, somebody must be responsible. All cannot say that we are responsible. He said, 'I am morally responsible.' That means, he wants to be alert. That means, the Government machinery has to further open

 

* Not recorded.
up itself to all of you, because the Governments alone cannot solve such a kind of problem. It is immaterial whether this subject comes under the State List or the Union List. What we want is that people should join us. We are fighting for it...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rao, don't take cognizance of what he says...(Interruptions)...

DR. K. KESHAVA RAO: Let us all join together. We will go back, at least, Mr. Chandra Sekar or whoever, to the State with new encouragement to fight this out ...(Interruptions)...

(Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let us take up the Zero Hour. Mr. Santosh Bagrodia...(Interruptions)... ֯ ։օ

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: Sir, I may be permitted to make a point. Having debated this issue at length, where is the hon. Home Minister? There has to be some sort of respect to the House...(Interruptions)...What is the purpose of this entire debate? ..(Interruptions)... (FOLLOWED BY USY "1T")

MP-USY/1T/12.35

ֳ֯ : ӛָ , ֯ ։օ ....(־֮֬).... Your name is there...(Interruptions)...

. ִ ӛָ : ָ, ײָ ִֻ Just a minute, Sir.

. ִ ӛָ : ֛פ ֟ ײָ ִֻ ֮

ֳ֯ : ֵ֟ ֵ օ ...(־֮֬)....

. ִ ӛָ : ֮ פ օ

ӟ ֛פ : ָ, ָ ֮ , ִֻ ֮ ו֋

ֳ֯ : , ׻֋ ....(־֮֬).... Mr. Reddy, please sit down...(Interruptions)... No; no, this is not a debate. I cannot ask the Government to reply immediately. ...(Interruptions)...

֮֮ߵ ֤õ : ָ, ֯ ״׮Ù և ....(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ӛָ , ֯ ׻֋ ....(־֮֬)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, I have a point of order. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Where is the debate? ...(Interruptions)... No point of order. ...(Interruptions)... ӟ ־ , ֯ ך .....(־֮֬)...

. . ֮ : ָ, Ӭ ־ֲ ....(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No; no, ֯ ך.....֯ ך, ߕ ך .... ״֮֙ This was a notice, which we discussed, for suspension of Question Hour. ָ, we all were allowed by agreement. It never happens, but, because of the seriousness of the issue, it was allowed. Now, the Government is aware of the sentiments of the House. The hon. Minister will come here to reply, but we cannot say that the Government should immediately reply on this...(Interruptions)...

פݾֵ֕ : ָ, ֟ ? .....(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ֋, ֯ ֟ ֛ ֟ ! ....(־֮֬)... ֯ ֟ ֛ ֟ ....(־֮֬)...פݾֵ֕ , ֯ ָ ....(־֮֬)... ֯ ך ....֯ ך.....(־֮֬)....ߕ ך ....֋, this is not a debate. I am sure...(Interruptions)... I am sure...(Interruptions)... I am sure, the Government will...(Interruptions)...

֮֮ߵ ֤õ : ָ, ָ ֻ , ָ ָ ֟ և ....(־֮֬)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ֳ֯ן , ֮֯ ׾ֵ ӳ߸ ֮֟ ֳ֯ן Ͽ-ֻ ã֟ ֲ ֮ ֟ ̟֕ , ָ ֟ talk out ֋ ! logical conclusion ֤ ӡ ֮ ֟ ....(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ֋, Ù ֋օ .....(־֮֬)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : , ָ ....(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The Government may not...(Interruptions)... ̸ ׮֋.....(־֮֬)... ̸ ׮֋ ....(־֮֬)... I have asked the Parliamentary Affairs Minister to respond. He wants to react. ...(Interruptions)... Don't you want to...(Interruptions)...

.. ׻ֵ : ָ, ӡ և ....(־֮֬)... ٻִֵ ״׮Ù ...(־֮֬)... ֯ ӡ և ....(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ״Ù ׻ֵ, ֯ ׮֋ ....(־֮֬)... ֋, ߕ..... ֳ debate ״׮Ù , օ ....(־֮֬)... ̸ ׮֋....(־֮֬)... ֯ ٻִֵ ״׮Ù ֮ ? ...(־֮֬)....֯ ״׮Ù ֮ ? ...׮֋ ....(־֮֬)... ߕ.....״Ù פݾֵ֕ , ֯ ו֮֟ , ֮ ׻֋ ָ ...(־֮֬)....

פݾֵ֕ : ָ, ־ֻ ֮ ֵ օ ....(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ? ....(־֮֬)... The Minister has a prerogative. He wants to say something. ....(Interruptions) (Followed by 1u -- SG)

-USY/VP/SC/12.40/1U

֤ߵ ֵ ӡֵֻ ֕ ӡ ( ֓) : ֳ֯ן , ֲ֤ ִ ׾ñ ݵ֯ ֙ Ͽ ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ӡ ־ֲ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ֯ ٻִֵ ״׮Ù , ׮֋..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ֟ , ׮֋ ..(־֮֬).. ֲ ֲ֤ß ..(־֮֬)..You are going back from whatever you agreed to. ..(Interruptions).. You are going back on the agreement. ..(Interruptions).. You are going back on the agreement. ..(Interruptions)..

֓ : ָ, ֯ ׮ָ֤֮ ָָ ָ ֌־ ׻֋ ָ ֌־ ֤ ֤ ָָ ׮ִֵ ־֮֬ - ִֵ ׮׿֟ ֋, ִֵ ָ ֓ ׻֋ ָָ ָ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ֮֟ ֤ ֮Դ ֮ ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ӡ ֵ ֋ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ֻ֟ ֲ֤ß ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ֤ ָָ ֮ ֮ ..(־֮֬)..׻ֵ , ֯ ֟ ו֋ ..(־֮֬).. ..(־֮֬)..

֓ : ָָ ׻֋ ָ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ִ , ֟ ..(־֮֬).. This is not correct. ..(Interruptions).. This is not according to the agreement. ..(Interruptions).. I am making it a point. ..(Interruptions).. ָ ֯ ֈ ֻ֮ ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ֋, ֳ ӡ ..(־֮֬).. ӡ ֳ ..(־֮֬).. ֳ ֻ ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ֳ ֮ ֵ ..(־֮֬)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I am sorry, this is against the agreement. ..(Interruptions).. This is against the understanding. ..(Interruptions).. I feel very bad that the Members are going back on the agreement. ..(Interruptions).. After a smooth debate, the Members are going back and this is really bad. ..(Interruptions).. I am very sorry. ..(Interruptions).. I request the party leaders to calm them. ..(Interruptions).. This is not correct. ..(Interruptions).. This is not correct. ..(Interruptions).. Otherwise, there is no meaning for agreement. ..(Interruptions).. There is no meaning for agreement. ..(Interruptions).. You can say anything. ..(Interruptions).. No; no. ..(Interruptions).. ֻ֟ , ֻ֟ ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ־ֲ ..(־֮֬)....(־֮֬).. ״׮Ù Ù the Government is agreeable for further discussion. ..(Interruptions).. The Government is agreeable for further discussion. ..(Interruptions).. This is totally wrong. ..(Interruptions).. Mr. Reddy, this is totally wrong. ..(Interruptions).. I never expected that after reaching an understanding, you would do it. ..(Interruptions).. Please don't do it. ..(Interruptions).. This is wrong. ..(Interruptions).. You are not going to.. (Interruptions).. You are not going to solve the problem of terrorism like this. ..(Interruptions).. Mind it. ..(Interruptions).. The problem of terrorism cannot be solved by coming to the Well of the House. ..(Interruptions).. It can be solved by a discussion. ..(Interruptions)..

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, I am on a point of order. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Where is the point of order, Mr. Narayanasamy? ..(Interruptions).. What is there for point of order? ..(Interruptions).. Where is the point of order? ..(Interruptions).. The House is adjourned till 2.00 p.m.

-----

The House then adjourned at

forty-three minutes past twelve of the clock.

PREVIOUS HOUR