PREVIOUS HOUR

2a/1.00/skc-psv

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, please allow me half a minute. (Interruption) The hon. Member has raised a point.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let us decide whether we are going by... (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, it is a very important point. I would take only half a minute. The situation is this.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamy, please.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, there are two divergent views.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamy, if you wish to express your views, you may do so by giving your name.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, there are two divergent views expressed by the Supreme Court. One of them states that if a dalit community migrates, they don't carry the caste name. That is one judgement. There is another judgement. It is totally confusing.

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: There is nothing confusing. If the hon. Member reads the Supreme Court judgement, his confusion will be removed. (Interruption)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, there are two divergent views. Let me tell you; I have personally known that when a person of the dalit community migrates to another State, if he wants to contest elections, election authorities do not allow him.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Let the Minister respond to it.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: This is the situation. Let the hon. Minister respond to it. It was upheld by the court too.

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: That is my point.

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֬ Ϥ) : ָ, ײֻ ָ ָ ֻ ֻ , ִ ׾ֵ ߴ֟ Ӥ ֵ , ׻֋ ִ֣Ԯ ׻֋ ֛

, ׾ֵ ִ , ׾ֵ ֮ ֤ ִ߸ ָ ָӛ ־ ֛ ׾ֵ ֮ օ וֻ ֤ constituency , ֤ concentrated ִ ؙ ָ ֋ ֣ ֛ ֵ ָ ߻߳ߟ , ֟ , ִ ֛ ܵ ָָ ֤ߵ ֵ ӡ ׯϵָ֮ ӿ , ׾ פ ֋ ד֟ ן ״ֻօ Ӥ ֵ֟ ָ ִֵ , ֲ ָޛ 000 ָָ , ֮ ֵ֤ 껵֮ ׸ ד֟ ן ״ֻ֮ ߻߳ߟ ָ ָ Ϥ ִִ ֆ , þֵ ִ ד֟ ן ״ֻ֮ ׻֋ ָָ ӡ ֮ ֕ ָָ ֮ ֤ פ֮ ִ ן ֣ ֛ ֵֵ ׿ִ ֻ ד֟ ן , ָָ ָ ָ֣ ֋ ֋ , ד֟ ן ִִ ׾֬ֆ ד֟ ׻֋ , ֤ ֛ , ִ ן ד֟ ן פ֮ ׻֋ ָָ ֜ (ִ֯)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, we are dispensing with the lunch hour as we have a lot of business today. Yes, Mr. Natchiappan.

DR. E. M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (TAMIL NADU): Sir, I support this Bill which seeks to amend the Constitution by providing for inclusion of certain castes in the list of the Scheduled Castes.

(THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN) IN THE CHAIR)

We are celebrating the sixtieth anniversary of our Independence. In these sixty years, we are proud to say, many of the Scheduled Caste and the Scheduled Tribe people have risen to the top. We are proud to say that for the first time in our country, we have a Scheduled Caste person holding the office of the Chief Justice of India. But I should also add here that he has not come to occupy this high office on the basis of reservation. He has risen to this position only on the basis of his own efforts and merit. Sir, the Constitution of India provides for upliftment of socially and educationally backward people so as to enable them to come at par with those belonging to higher classes. During the British period, many people could rise to the top because of their social and educational status. Sir, even after the end of the Vedic period, much before the British came to India, we had the caste system in our society where there were divisions based on occupations. (Contd. by 2b/hk)

HK/2b/1.05

DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): They have to do the same job which their ancestors were doing. They cannot come up out of that particular job. In Tamil poetry during the Sangala period about 2000 years before, a poet said that even if he is a backward or a Scheduled Caste person -- at that time the word 'Scheduled Caste' was not used -- or at the lowest rung of the society, by his education and by his efficiency, he can bring himself out of that caste system. That was the thought of the Tamil poet at that time. Kanyan Poongunranar made that poetry who belongs to our district. We are proud of him. There are people who are still socially and educationally backward and are suffering even though their caste names are included in the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Lists by the Proclamation of the President of India after a consideration at the State level and the national level. Sir, after 60 years, we have to make a thorough study upon this subject because a new thinking is coming up through the media and people who are occupying the highest position that if someone utters a word of caste, then he is dividing the society. Sir, it is a wrong notion. It has to be curbed at that stage itself. If it is said that policy of reservation means division of society, then we are not understanding our history. For so many years, people were suppressed and they were socially excluded from the society. They could not get the education; they could not get the opportunity to live as others were living. Even after 50 years of Proclamation, if these people could not come up, if they could not get the right to education and right to have a social acceptability in each and every position, then we are ashamed of it. We are proud in one way that we have improved many of the things. We have got the President of India earlier who belonged to a Scheduled Caste. He has never come as a person from the category of Scheduled Castes. He came as a diplomat, he came as the best person and he came as a person who is reliable for social justice. He has never been elevated as a President of India on the basis of reservation. But, Sir, the situation has been changed. People, who are living in the villages and cities, are migrating from one place to another place for seeking jobs or seeking livelihood. They are now outcaste. To which caste they belong, we don't know. If a person from Tamil Nadu migrates for his work in Delhi, as per the interpretation of present judgements, he loses his category as Scheduled Tribe or Caste because he has been uprooted from his geographical area. This is the thinking. Sir, I am sorry to say that if a social justice person is sitting there, he will not say like that. Even if these people migrate from one place to another place, they are having the same status. How they are socially and educationally backward, that classification we have to find out. If he migrates to urban area whether he is having the same social status or is he getting the education immediately? No. Even now they are living in slums. They are wriggling out like worms in the slums. We can see many of the people live on the railway tracks in Delhi Railway station. About 20 tracks are there. If the train is coming in No.2 track, then these people shift their place in the mid-night to another track for sleeping. Next day, they shift to another place. Railway track is the best bed for these poor fellows. They have to go for a small job in the city. They are Scheduled Cates or Scheduled Tribes but they are not recognised according to the present interpretation of the law. Can we accept it? Another thing is that if a person wants to get social status or education, some religions are allowing them. (Contd. by KSK/2c)

KSK/1.10/2C

DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD): They are sending their children in a proper way to the schools, but they are unable to come up to the level of colleges or universities. They are still termed as converted Christians or converted Muslims, but they are having the same tag of Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribes. They cannot marry outside their caste. Even in Tamil Nadu, many of the mosques are there. If a particular mosque belongs to Scheduled Castes and another mosque belongs to Scheduled Tribes, then people belonging to particular Caste cannot go to the mosque belonging to other Caste. This is the position now. That means, even now, they are socially and educationally backward citizens as mentioned in article 16(4). Therefore, we have to see what is the status of Scheduled Caste whose caste name has already been proclaimed by the President as Scheduled Caste. We have to see as to how many people have been benefited by reservation, and to what extent, and how many are still left out. That is the statistics that we have to ascertain. Sir, article 341 of the Constitution gives the power to the States and the Union Territories to notify as to who are the persons that have to be classified as Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The Union Government can accept it. But, at the same time, we have to see whether the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes is empowered to find out whether the social and economic development programmes of the Government of India are reaching these people; whether the programmes are being implemented for their benefit. Are they doing it? Are they empowered to do it? The Constitution empowered it. But, how are they calculating it? How many people have been uplifted by these social and economic development programmes of the Government of India and the State Governments as stipulated in the Constitution? Has the Commission fulfilled the mandate given to it? What does the Annual Report say regarding the number of Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe people who have crossed the economic and social backwardness status? I request the hon. Minister to see that these words in the Statement of Objects and Reasons, "the inclusion of new castes based on social, educational and economic backwardness". I request that this phrase 'economic backwardness' should not be there. It cannot be there. It is against the Constitution. The Constitution recognises only the social and educational backwardness. Therefore, we cannot include the economic status because some people within the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe communities can very easily be excluded when the Officer sitting in position decides the fate of a person while deciding whether a person belongs to a Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe or not for reservation purposes. Sir, economic status is not at all recognised in the Constitution. If you see the Constituent Assembly debate, many of the people had asserted that economic status should be included. But, finally, Dr. Ambedkar came to a conclusion that economic status cannot be taken into consideration. A rich fellow today may be poor tomorrow. I will give an example, Sir, just for appreciation. When I was contesting elections to Lok Sabha, I was asked to meet a particular person. He was introduced to me as the Zamindar of Sivaganga. He was from King's family. I thought that he would be a very rich man having a decorative dress and he would be coming in a very rich way. But, I saw a very poor fellow with a very bad cloth, without having cloth on the body. He was having cloth just to hide his own organ. That poor fellow came. The person, who came along with me, told me that I need not remove the shoes. He told that they had to remove the shoes because this was the obligation that they had to do before that particular gentleman. Then, they removed the shoes and bowed before him. They told their Maharaja to urge his people to vote for me. He said, "Yes, I will do it." But, I thought whether he was having a palace. He had a very ordinary house. His status was that of a Maharaja, a Zamindar, who owned acres of land in that area. But, now what is his status? He is a poor fellow? Socially, he may be recognised as a big person, but he is educationally and economically poor.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Natchiappan, there are other speakers also. (followed by 2d - gsp)

GSP-AKA/1.15/2D

DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): Therefore, Sir, my submission is that economic status cannot be taken into consideration. Socially, they may be recognized; but, educationally, they were not recognized. They have not come up to their standards. My main point on which I would like to stress is that it is high time to see that High Courts and the Supreme Court should have the social justice system. The people who belong to the Scheduled Caste or the Scheduled Tribe should occupy the positions through reservation. Until and unless they occupy these posts, we cannot get justice and we cannot have social justice in judgements. We would be appearing as if we are living in the heaven. Everything is happening here. Why are you classifying the citizens into caste system? Sir, even today, ninety crore people are living according to the caste system and they are not having anything to live on. Such is the situation. If such a person occupies such a position in the judicial system, only then, we can hope for a change. If there is reservation in the Parliament, if there is reservation in the Assembly, and if there is reservation in Panchayati Raj system, then, why can't we have it in the judiciary? Even, in the Executive, this reservation is there. For judiciary also, we should have this system of reservation because then only, social justice will be interpreted as per the Constitution. The present interpretation is totally against the social justice.

With these words, I support this Bill but the hon. Minister has to review the entire performance of these Commissions and how the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe people have been occupying proper positions, which is guaranteed by the Constitution. This list is now larger than the initial list. We can enlarge the numbers but are we giving them the positions. If we are not giving them positions, and, at the same time, we are enlarging the list, it means that we are doing injustice to the community, we are not properly appreciating their position, their social background, their educational background and we are not bringing them up. Thank you very much, Sir. (Ends)

ָ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֬ , - ֮־֤ ׾֮֬ (ד֟ ן) ֤ (ӿ֮) ׾֬, 2007 ִ֣Ԯ ֛ ֮ ִ֯ӣ ףֵ ָٳ֟ ֌־ ן ֌ , ֬ Ϥ, , ָ ״ֻ ֋ , þ֟ ׸ֵԟ ־ֿ ָ ײֻ ï™ ֮ ִ֣Ԯ ִ þָ֕ Ӥ ָ ִ ִϤֵ ָ ֵ֮ פ , ן ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֤ ֋ ֋ ӳ߸ ֻ ֋ ִ ִֵ ָ ™ ָ þֵ ֮֟ , ߻߳ߟ ָӛ ֮ ָ ״ֻ ִ ִϤֵ ֻ֟ ֯ ӡ, ׯϵָ֮ ӿ ֲ ֋ ָӛ ִ ִֵ ׻֋ ֮ פ օ ׻֋ ִ ִֵ ָ ־ֿ ָև ϵ֟ ָָ , ֿ

™ ֣ ֛ ֤֕ 60 ֻ ֤ ן ָ ֱ ֓ ֕ ִו, ֮֕ן, ٣ ׯ֮֔ ֣-֣ ֮֕ן ִ ֮֮ ֤֮ ן ָ֬ ָ ֱ ֵ ֮֕ן ָ ִ Ͼ ֋, ֮֕ן ָ ן ִ־ ֋, - ֮֕ן ׾֌ ֟ , ן֌ ֟ ׾֌ ן֌ ֮֕ן ֵ֤ ײֻ ֟, ֵ ׻֋ ֛-֛ ֮ܵ , ֤ Ӿֿ߻֟ פֻ , ֕ ̸ ן֯ ϴ , ֮ ֯ ׾ֵ ו ֓ , ֮

('2e/nb' ָ ָ)

-AKA-NB/SK/2E/1.20

ָ (֟) : ֻ ָ ֻ ..... (־֮֬) ו֋, ׻֋ ֟ .... (־֮֬) ֯ ֤ ָ .... (־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J.KURIEN): Shrimati Jaya Bachchan, please take your seat. ...(Interruptions).. Mr. Amar Singh, please address the Chair. ...(Interruptions)..

SHRI AMAR SINGH: Sir, he is in the habit of interrupting ...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. ...(Interruptions).. Amar Singhji, please address the Chair. ...(Interruptions).. You please address the Chair. ...(Interruptions)..

.. ֯ (ԙ) : ֮ ִֵ

ָ : ֮ ִֵ , ֲ ֟ , ֲ ֟ , - Ͽ , ֟ כ Ӿֿ߻ ֤ ָ ֮֕ן ָ , ָ , ߓ , ָ ֲ , Ӿֿ߻֟ -ֲָָ , ֤֕ 60 ֻ ֤ , ϵ֟ ֮ ָ Ϥ ֳָ֕ ן ן, ׾֬ ״ֻ ֳָ֕ ן ׾֬ ׻֋ ָ Ϥ ֲ-ֲ ִ֕־֤ ֙ ָָ , ָ ֻ֟߮ ִܵӡ ִֵ ֤ ֳָ֕ ן ן ׬ָ ֛և ֛ , ֜-֜ ֛

ӡ ִ ִֵ ׻֋, ֳָ֕ ן ׻֋ ן ׻֋ ד֟ ־֮֬ ϵ֟ ֿ߸ִ ָ ׸ ֳ֟ , ֛և , ֮֟ ׻֟ ֮ ׻֋ ֤ߵ ֿ߸ִ ִ , ֜-֜ ִ ֤ߵ ֿ߸ִ ׻֋ ָָ ײ֮ ־֮ פ , þ֟ ֿ߸ִ ׻֋ ָ ־֮ פ ֋, ׻֋ פ ֋, ׮ִֵ ֮ ָ , ׻֋ ײ֮ ־֮֬ ־֮ פ ֵ , þ֟ , פ þ֟ Ӆ

ֳ֬ , ߸ ָ , ֮ ֤ߵ ׯ֟֕, ֟: ôָߵ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ , ֮֓֯ ו֮ ָ ֟ ֋ , ָ ֤ , ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ôן ֛ ôָ ֵ֮ ֋ ֿ߸ִ ׻֋ ־֮ פ ֵ , þ֟ , ֲ ׻֟ ֮ ׻֋ ֲ ִ , ֟ ֳ ֮ ׻֟ ӯϤֵ ֲ ע ֺ , ֻ ׻֟ , ־ , ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ߾֮ ִ , ֟ ָָ ֮ ֮ ֮ ֵ ִ֮ , Ӥ ֆ , ֓ ֣ ־ , ֣ ״ןֵ ֟ ׯϵ , ֙ ן ן , ֲ ֟ ֣ ֯ , ׾֮֟ ֯ ֟ ִ֣Ԯ ֲ ׻֟ empowerment ֟ , ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ôן ׮ָ֤ ֟ ׸ ִ֣Ԯ ׸

ֳ֬ , ֳָ֕ ן, ן ִ ִ־ Ӥ ֋ , , ֱ ֮֕ן ׸ , ֮ ֟ , ֮ ֮֓ , ֮ ד֟ ןֵ ֮֕ןֵ ֮ ׻֋ ִ֯ ֲ Ӿֿ߻ , ָ ߓ ֣ , ָ ֣ , ָ ֣ , ִ ָ , ָ ִ , ו ָ ָ ׬ ׾ֵ ָ , ָ ־ֻ ָ, ָ ֳ ִ , ׻֟ ן ׻֋ ֜-֜ ֮

ָ ױ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ , ׻֟ ֮ , ֮ , ôן ִ ִ֮ ߸ ָ ו ָ ֿ߸ִ ׻֋ ־֮ פ ֵ , ָ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ôן ־֮ ִ , ֯ ֿ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯) 2F/YSR ָ

-SK/YSR/1.25/2F

SHRI D. RAJA (TAMIL NADU): Sir, my party, the Communist Party of India, supports this Bill. We find that the intent of the Government in this Bill is sincere and genuine in this regard. Having said this, I must point out that there must be a comprehensive approach to the issues related to dalits. There are some practical problems related to this particular Bill. The dalits, who are recognised in some parts of the country, if they migrate and settle down and become citizens of other region, they are not being treated as dalits. It happens in case of dalits who have migrated long back and settled down in Mumbai, Maharashtra. It also happens in case of dalits who have migrated from Tamil Nadu and settled down in Pondicherry and other region. So, there is an anomaly. This anomaly needs to be looked into. How the Government will address this anomaly, I leave it to the Government. But this is an anomaly and this has to be looked into and sorted out.

Then, Sir, I must come to certain other issues related to dalits. Several hon. Members spoke here. I agree with their emotions. I agree with their strong feelings when they spoke about dalits and their conditions. We are celebrating the 60th anniversary of our Independence, but the conditions of dalits continue to be miserable in several parts of the country. I must say if India, the great nation, has to emerge as a modern civilised nation, the dalit question has to be addressed with a sense of urgency. Dr. Ambedkar said, "India could not emerge in true psychological and social sense as a nation as long as castes exist and it is the caste system which has to be fought." The annihilation of the caste system must be a priority for all political parties and social forces. This caste system is really vegetative and it is stagnating the progress of the society as a whole. We need to fight against the caste system. But it is a long drawn battle. Dr. Ambedkar said, "Casteism or castes are a mental twist and to straighten it takes time." We will have to fight it and we will have to carry on the battle against the caste system. Social oppression is a problem in our country. Social discrimination is a problem in our country. Even after six decades of Independence, as many Members pointed out, the dalits are discriminated in every respect of social life and dalit women are being discriminated. The way they are being tortured, the way they are being raped or killed, it is in fact very difficult to explain it in words. Such atrocities are happening in our country and these atrocities are on increase and here comes the question of constitutional safeguards for dalits. The rights of dalits must be treated as basic human rights, democratic rights, and constitutional protection and safeguards are needed for them. There is the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989. (Contd. by VKK/2G)

-YSR/VKK/2g/1.30

SHRI D. RAJA (CONTD.): I do not know how that Act is being implemented properly in several parts of the country. If that Act is implemented, there should be action against those who commit such heinous crimes against dalits in our country. Having said this, I must point out that the Government must initiate certain meaningful measures without any delay for the uplift of dalits. For instance, land reforms is one of the most urgent needs and unless we implement radical land reforms, unless we change the agrarian relations, dalits cannot have livelihood in the countryside, dalits cannot have any self-reliance or independence on their own in the countryside. Even though it is for the State Governments to implement land reforms, at the national level, we must have a perspective and the country should go in for radical land reforms and all feudal remnants will have to be eliminated and feudalism, in any sense, cannot be tolerated hereafter and there comes the importance of land reforms.

Then, dalits must have priority in education, health and housing. In fact, I must point out that housing must be treated as one of the Fundamental Rights. If people do not have a decent house or hut for living, they cannot have an address also. On the one side, we claim to be independent citizens in this independent country, but they do not have permanent hut or permanent house. How can they give their permanent address? That is the problem with majority of the dalits in this country. I really feel that housing must be treated as one of the Fundamental Rights for all the citizens and in case of dalits, it is the most important issue and that is where the demand for housing quarters or housing sites has become very crucial and in several parts, there is a struggle, even in Andhra Pradesh. That is one of the reasons for such struggle by poor people, demanding house sites. On the question of health care also, dalits are neglected in health care.

In totality, I must say, on the one side, we talk about globalisation, we talk about 9.4 per cent GDP growth, double digit GDP growth in the country, but, it does not reflect in the living conditions of our common people, particularly in the living conditions of dalits. This nine per cent GDP growth doesn't have any meaning for dalits and the double digit GDP growth doesn't have any meaning for dalits. I must say this. That is why, now, everybody talks about inclusive growth. What do they mean by inclusive growth? Then, what happened? It is a known fact that in the process of economic development, dalits have been excluded, dalits have been neglected and dalits have been marginalized. Unless we break the shackles of globalisation, the conditions of dalits cannot improve in this country. It is a fact that discrimination is becoming more and more acute and in this process, dalits are becoming the worst victims. I do not know whether one Ministry can address these concerns of dalits. That is why, I suggest that the Government should have a comprehensive approach to the problems of dalits. Now, there is a new issue. Earlier there used to be a sub-plan or a component plan for dalits, for Scheduled Castes. Now, what is happening? How much money is being earmarked for this plan and for dalits and their welfare? There is a feeling among dalits that they are facing a new challenge, the new challenge of economic exclusiveness, economic untouchability. That is what many dalit activists and many dalit intellectuals are feeling so badly. There is a kind of economic untouchability that is emerging in this country because dalits are being neglected in the process of economic development. This needs to be urgently addressed.

Then, I come to the question of reservation. Reservation is there, but the point is how it is implemented. There is reservation to SCs, reservation to STs and reservation to OBCs. We know what is happening to the twenty-seven per cent reservation to OBCs. It is being challenged. (Contd. by RSS/2h)

RSS/2h/1.35

SHRI D.RAJA (CONTD.): It is being challenged by the Judiciary, the Apex Court of this country, and what Parliament is going to do. In fact, the policy of reservation is a policy matter. It remains in the domain of Parliament, it remains in the domain of Legislature, and once the Parliament decides a policy, that must be the policy of the Government, and the Government of the day will have to implement that policy. How come the Judiciary comes in the way and says, no, you cannot implement this policy? There is a conflict between the Judiciary and the Legislature, the Judiciary and the Parliament. This conflict will have to be resolved. Otherwise, there can be a demand that if there is a reservation at all levels, why can't there be reservation at the judicial level also? That demand can be a very genuine demand also because now, it is a question of ensuring social justice. There is no point in talking about economic growth alone. Economic growth should go in correspondence with social justice. Without social justice, if you talk of economic growth, it has no meaning for the common people, and it cannot convince anybody. If at all there is economic growth, there must be equity of justice, there must be social justice. That is where, as a Member of the CPI, I think, the economic development and social justice must go hand in hand. If one differs from the other, then we cannot achieve our objective. This is one thing we have to keep in mind. And having said this, I must say that now there are new demands, reservation for dalit Christians, reservation for dalit Muslims. Dalits are discriminated, wherever they are. Irrespective of religious affiliations, dalits are dalits. That is the social reality. I do not want to go into details...(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ûִ և ִ ן ־ã ..(־֮֬)..ָָ ֮֕ן ׻֋ ә ..(־֮֬).. ׾֮֬ ֣ ֻ־֛ ͅ..(־֮֬).. ֮֕ן ә ..(־֮֬)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Pany, please don't disturb. What do you want?...(Interruptions)... Mr. Pany, please sit down...(Interruptions)...Hon'ble Members, this is the maiden speech of the hon. Member...(Interruptions)... Don't disturb him. He is not saying anything unparliamentary....(Interruptions)... Mr. Pany, if you want to say something, I will give you a chance. You send your name. I will give you a chance. Don't disturb others. Please sit down. Don't do this. Mr. Pany, don't test my patience. Don't do this. This is unbecoming of a Member of Parliament. Don't do that....(Interruptions)..

ֵָ : ûִ և ִ ן ־ã ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI D.RAJA: Whether I made my maiden speech or not, that is not the issue. I will have my say....(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Raja, how much time do you need?

SHRI D.RAJA: I will finish very shortly.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Pany, if you want, I will give you a chance. Then you can make your submission. Mr. Raja, please address the Chair.

SHRI D.RAJA: Right, Sir. I address you. Through you, I must make it clear that this House does not belong to them only. This House belongs to me also. I have every right to speak in this House...(Interruptions)...Do not argue with me....(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): No, no. I will do that. I will take care of that. Hon. Members, it is his maiden speech.

SHRI D.RAJA: Whether it is my maiden speech or not, I have a right to speak in this House, and don't think that this House belongs to them only. I am speaking on issues related to the most oppressed sections of society of this country. If they have no botheration about those sections of the society, let them keep quiet. They should not interrupt me like this. That is my point....(Interruptions)....

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Raja, you please continue your speech. Don't get agitated.

SHRI D.RAJA: They should understand what is happening in India. We claim that it is an ancient land, a civilized nation. Which civilization are you talking about when dalits are being butchered on the streets of this country? (contd. by 2j)

MKS-MCM/1.40/2J

SHRI D. RAJA (CONTD.): When dalit women are being raped every day in this country, when dalit children are burnt alive in this country, what civilisation are you talking about? And you are interrupting whenever people talk! This is what I am talking about. Now, dalits need political empowerment; they need economic empowerment; they need social justice; they need equality. How are we going to ensure that? This Bill addresses a limited concern of dalits, and this House, this nation will have to address the larger concerns of dalits. Unless we address the concerns of dalits, India cannot progress, India cannot emerge as a modern civilised nation. That is my submission. This House will have to consider that. Thank you very much.

(Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Raja.

Ӥ 껻 (֮ Ϥ) : ֳ֬ , ֕ ֤ Ӥ ׾֮֬ (ד֟ ן) ֤ (ӿ֮) ׾֬, 2007 ֵ ֵ ִ֣Ԯ ֕ ָ ד֟ ן ӓ , ֤֕ 60 ֻ ֤ ׸־֮ ָ ֯ ִִ ߕ ֟ ֤֕ 60 ֻ ֤ ֕ ß֮ Ӥ ׸ ׸ , ֻ ֙ , כÙ , ֟ ָ 滛 Ù ֣ ֻ ֮ ߮ ֻֻ ֻ ֛ ִ ֟ ֲ ׾֮֬ ׮ִԟ , ֤ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ - ßֵ ׸־֮ ׻֋ ֱ ӑ օ ֕ ֳ ֯ ׾֮֬ ֳ ֯ ӓֵ֟ ׸־֮ ־֕ ִ֕ ֱ ׸־֮ ֻֻ ֻ֟ ? ָ 꿓֮ ָ, ָ ׻֋ ׸־֮ ֤ ָ ו֮֟ ן , ו֮֟ ָ ֕ ָ , ָָ ָ ִ ֻ 00 00 ֲ כ֙ ָ כÙ ֱ ֟ , ֵ֤ ֯ ֮ ״ֻ ״ֻ, ֻ , և ֱ ָ ֲ ֵ ֮ ׻֋ ֟ ֲ ֯ ן ֯ ן ײֻ ָ ֵ ָ ֮ ״ֻ֟ ֕ ָ և Ӥ ָ ߠ ߮ ִ֕ ֲ וִָ ֕ ֙ ֟ , ֙ ֟ ֻ֟֠ ֯ 000 Դָ֤֮ ׸ ֛ Դָ֤֮ ׸ ֤ ֲ ִֻ ׾֙ ִ֯ ֟ ִִ ߕ (2K ָ ֿ:)

GS-TMV/2K/1.45

Ӥ 껻 (֟) : ד֟ ן ָ ֯ ָ , ֯ ִ߮ ߴ ֛օ ו ֌ ߴ֟ פ Ӭ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ , ֌ 20 ߵ ֵ օ Ӭ Ϥ ָ ֌ ӓ ָ ֯ ִ֮ , ֲ ֻ֮ Ù, ٻִֵ Ӥ, ϕ֟ӡ Ӥ, ׬ָ , ִֵ וָ֬ ֙ ָ֙, landlords , ־ָ , וָ֬ Ɵ , ָ ֻ֮ ֻֻ օ 20 ևә ִ ֤, ִ߮ ߴ ֤, ֮ ן ֵ כև , ߴ֟ פ Ӭ ִֵ ׸֮ ן ֵ߅ ׮־

ָ, ָ Ӭ Ϥ ָָ, ָ ָֿ֕ ܵ ӡ ֵ֟ ִ ֕ ָ ָָ ִ , ו֮ ֻ ֻ֟ , ו֮ և׿ֵֻ ֻ֟ , ָ ָָ ״ ߴ ֵ֤ , ׮ֳ֮ ֛օ ֮ ֵ֤ օ ָ ָָ ָָ , ֻ ָ Ӭ Ϥ ָָ , ֮ ֙ ָ ִ օ ...(־֮֬)... ָ ָ ֤ օ ...(־֮֬)... ָ, ָ ָָ , ָ ָָ ..

ֳ֬ (. .. ׸֮) : ֯ ִ֯ ו֋

Ӥ 껻 : ֕ 0 ֕ ֮ ָ ֕ ֮ , ָ߲ , ָ ָָ ָ߲ ֮ ׻֋, ָ߲ ׻֋ ֮ ֮֮ ׻֋, Ù ָ , ֙ ָ , ו ֺ , ׻֋ ֮ ֕ ֮ ָֿ֕ ָָ ָ ָ ָ ִ ָ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ָ ..

ֳ֬ : ֯ ִ֯ ו֋

Ӥ 껻 : ָ, ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ֮ personality ӿ߸ִ ôן ׻֋ ֮ ֙ ֵօ ָ ֵ֤ ߮ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ָ , ֣ ָ ֤õ Ϭ֮ ӡ ״ֻ ֮ ָ ֮ , ׸ֻ ֮֮ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ "ָ " ָ כӛ ֮ ָԮ ߴ֟ ׮ֵ Ӭ ָ ֵ ߴ֟ ׮ֵ Ӭ ֮ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ׻֋ ֙ פ ָ ָ֤֮ ־֮ ֮֮ օ ִ ׻֟ , ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ן ֛ ־֮ ֮ ׻֋ ִ ֻ ֛ ֟ ֯ ָ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ָ ֟ ...(ִֵ ә)....

ָ, ָ ֟ ֕ ꌙ ꌙ ֮ 00 00 ֮ , ֕ ָ ׻֟ ן , ֲ כÙ֮ , ׿֟ , ֲ ãן ָ ֕ ָָ ָ ִ ֻ ד֟ ן 00 ֟ ֟ (2 ָ ָ)

-GS/ASC-VK/1.50/2L

֮ 껻 (֟) : ...滛 Ù ֮ ֟ , ִ֟ ָ ָ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ߴ֟ ߸ ָ , ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ֛ , Ӆ ִו ֵ ׬׸ ӡ וִָ ӳֻ ֮֟ ֯ כ֙ Ӥ י , ֕׸ ֕ ׾ֳ ߕ ֮ וִָ ָ ָ ..(ִֵ ә) ..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN) : Please conclude. There are a lot of speakers.

֮ 껻 : ָ, ֮֟ ߕ .. ...(־֮֬)....滛 Ù ִֻ ָ 滛 Ù ֤ ......(־֮֬).... ָ ֤ .....(־֮֬)....

ֳ֬ : ֲ

֮ 껻 : ֻ֮ Ù֮ , ׸ִ Ӥ Ù Ӥ ׸־֮ ו ִ֮ ֲ ֜ , ִֵ ֱ ֵ - ߅ ֕ ִֵ SC ׻֋ Ù ֮ Ù SC ׻֋ ׸־֮ ִִ ׾֬֋ ־֕ , ִ Ù ػ ׻֋ Ù ػ ָ Ù ֵ ִ ןֵ , וִ֮ ָ ֮ ִ֮ ߱ ״׮Ù ֕ ױָ ֛ ֻ SC ״ֻ ֋ .....(־֮֬)....

SHRI N. JOTHI: Mr. Yellaiah, will you yield for a moment? Sir, he is...(interruptions).

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Jothi, there is shortage of time. (Interruptions). There is paucity of time. I am not permitting you. (Interruptions). Mr. Yellaiah, please conclude. You have said everything. Please conclude. There are other speakers also.

֮ 껻 : ֳ֬ , ָ ֠ ֮ Ϥ ...(־֮֬).... ָ ֱ ӑ ָָ , ִ ֮ ֮ ֣ ֮ ֮֋ ָ ֻ֟ ֋ ָ ӛ ֛ 򲻴 ևԅ ד֟ ן ֛ ֳ ׻֋ ִ ָ ֮֮ߵ ߴ֟ ׮ֵ Ӭ ֿ߾Ԥ ָ ־֮Դ ָֿ֕ פ ֜ ֜ ӡ ֯ 滛 Ù ׻֋ ֱ ׸֟Ԯ ֛օ ֕ ֙ ָ ֯ ׸ꌙ ׾֙ ָ ֯ ׸ꌙ ֻ֮ 껙 ֕ Ӿ ֣ ׸ ׸֕ 滛 Ù ֮ ֮ߵ ãן ָ ׻֋ ִ ӿ֮ ָ , ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ , ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)

ָ : ֳ֬ , ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ֮־֤ ֮ ֌־ פ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ ׻֋ ־֮ ׮ִ ־֮֬ , ֮ ו ־֮ ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ , ׻֋ þן ״ֻ ־ֻ , ׻֋ þן ״ֻ֮ .....(־֮֬)....

֮ 껻 : ָ, ׻֋ ϵ .....(־֮֬)....100 MPs ݮָ ׸׌וֿ֮ և ָ .....(־֮֬)....

ָ : ֲ ֕߾֮ ִ Ɵ , ôָ ֮ ? ...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): There are four more speakers. Now every speaker will take five minutes each.

SHRI K.B. SHANAPPA: Sir, I will take less than that. ֯ ә ֮֕ ։օ

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay.

.. ֯ ( ԙ) : , ֟ ׸־֮ ִֻ , ׯ֔ ֚ ֻ ׸׿š ן ָ ֻ ִ֕ ֵ , ָ ָ ֲ ׻֟ ָ ־֕ և Ӿ׮ פ־և ֚ ֻ ֜ (ֿ: LP/2Mָ)

LP/RG/1.55/2m

..֯ (֟) : ֲ ֟ , ֲ ׾ֻ ֟ ֟ ϳ־ When we go to villages, we find that the status, which prevailed for SCs then, still exists. - ֻ ֤ ָ ׸־֮ ֜͟ , ׻֟, ֮ ׾ֻ , - ִ߮ , ֟ ևԅ ָ ׸ և ׾ֻ ֮ օ ֲ ֵ ׾ֻ ו֮֟ ׻֟ , ׸ãן ׸֟Ԯ ֵօ ֲ ִ֮ 1932  , ֌ ֱ .. ָ ߅ ֚ ֻ ߟָ ߿֮ ֵ 110 ֵ ׸־֮ ״ ׸ãן ָ ״ֻ ֻ Ù, ֻ ֙ ָ֬ ָ ״ֻ ָ ֻ ֮ ָ , Ӿ ֮ , פ ֮ , ֮ ״ֻ , ׻֋ ֲ ָָ ֣ ֧  Ӭ ָ Ùև ևԅ It has been accepted. But what is the position today? ֕ ֮ ߔ 60%, 70% ֮ ׸ãן , ִ ׻֟ ׸ãן 24% Ӧ פ ֮֯ ָ ֜ ԙ ִָ֕ ָ 45 families of the Dalits were boycotted by the Suvarnas. פ, ֙ ֮ פ, ֮ ָ פ, Ӿ ֕ פօ ֚ ֻ ֤ ׻֟ ֕ ׸ãן ֯ ֮ ֮ ו֋, ԙ ֟ 1600 cases are pending. ִ in respect of four cases, they have been completed. ָ ׻֟ ָ ֵ ֻ ָ ֯ ִִ ߕ ׮ֻ֮ the Government should have a powerful machinery. How are you going to deal with this problem? It is not that ֮ ֮ פ, ֻ ָ ִו ׸֟Ԯ ֮ , ֮ ׿ ׻֋ you have to give all the help. ָ, ָ ׸ և . և׸ 90% ֯ ֈ ָ ׮֙ , ָ ן ֯ ֈ ֕ because they are economically weak. ׸ ׿ ֲ ׿ ״ֻ֟ ֲ ֮ Ùޛ ׻ؾ ׸֟Ԯ ׻֋ ֲ ׿ , ך ֆ, ֤ ֮ Ù ׻֋ ֛ ֕ ׸ãן ָ ֛-֛ ֟ Everybody seems to be very kind towards Dalits. ׻֟ ָ ֟ , ֟ , ֯ ׻֟ ֮ ֋ ׸ãן ..֯, Ӥ  ָ ֮ ? ֮ ׻֟ ָ ? ֲ ָ ֈ ׻֋ ׸־֮ օ Ùߙә 괲ֻ ֻ ֌ ֜-׻ ׻֟ ָ ָ ֌ ֮ , ߸ ָ ֯ ָ ֈ ׻֋ ׸־֮ ֮և ׻֟ ꅠ There should be a reservation for this House too. Earlier we were not very much educated. ֲ ״ִ֮ , ֌ פ ִ ֵ֮ , ָ ֮ ִ ֟ , ֛-֛ ָ (akg/2n ָ ָ)

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