PREVIOUS HOUR

kgg-sc/2.30/1f

The House re-assembled after lunch at thirty minutes past two of the clock, MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.

 

ֳ֯ן : ײֻ ә֮օ

֮֮ߵ ֤õ : ֕ ֈ ֻօ ֕ ײֻ , ׻֋ ֻօ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֵ ׮֋

ָ֕ : ֯ ֻ֮ ֻ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֕ ֮ , ו֋..(־֮֬)..

ӟ ֛פ : ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ׻֋ ִ ߅ ֕ ִֵָ

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ, ֻ ә֮ ֻ ײֻ ִֵָ , ߛ֮ ׻֋ ֵ ׻֋ ֈ ֻ , ׻֋ ֻ

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ׻֋

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

BILLS INTRODUCED

THE FARMERS (OLD AGE PENSION AND REMOVAL OF INDEBTEDNESS) BILL, 2007

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֬ Ϥ) : , ß־ :

־ã ֮ פ ֮ ß֟ , ָ ֣ ãֆ ָ ׻ֵ ֵ ׮֮֯֙ ãֆ ָ Ϥ֮ ֮ ָ ֟ פ-׮֤ ׮֬׸ ֣ ֟֌ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲ֮ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : , ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ (Ends)

THE ORPHAN, EXPLOITED AND UNDERPRIVILEGED STREET CHILDREN (CARE, PROTECTION AND WELFARE) BILL, 2007

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֬ Ϥ) : , ß־ :

׾֬ ֯ ָ ֓ ׻֋, וִ֮ ׬ӿ ֣ ־ ֲ֤֮ ו֮ ֟-ׯ֟ ֙ ׮־, ׳ָ - ָ֬ ׬ӿ֟: ֓ ֮ þã ָ֟ ֻ֟ ָ֑ ֣ Ӥ ã֮ ד֣֛ ߮, ָ, -ָ֯֙, ֤ ײ פ - ָ֬ ֮ ׮־ , ߵ ָָ ֕ ָָ ָ ׿, ԤԮ ֵ ִ֬ ָ ֮ ֻ ִד֟ ֳֻ, Ӹ, ־ ִ֮ ֵ ֣ ֟֌ ־ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲӬ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : , ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ (Ends)

THE DALIT AND TRIBAL GIRL CHILD (SPECIAL EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES AND WELFARE) BILL, 2007

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֬ Ϥ) : , ß־

׻֟ ֮֕֟ߵ ׻ֆ ׻֋ ֣״ îָ֟ ßָ , וִ , דߵ ־ֵ ׿ ״ֻ , ֡־ ׾֬ֆ, ֡־עֵ, ׿ ֤ ֳ֯Ϥ ָ Ϥ֮ ׾ֿ ׾֬ֆ ֣ ׮־ֵ ߴ, 㿟 ןֳן Ӭ֯֡, þָָ ׻֋ ԤԮ ׾֢ ָ ֵ ֣ ֵ ֟֌ ־ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲӬ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : , ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ (Ends)

(1-֯ ָ ֿ:)

KLS/LP/2G-2.35

THE WORKING WOMEN (PROTECTION, BASIC FACILITIES AND WELFARE) BILL, 2007

 

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill to provide for the protection of women from discrimination, sexual exploitation and for the basic facilities like creches, recreational facilities, maternity benefits, hostel and transport facilities, etc. and for the welfare measures to be taken by the employers and the State for the women employees working in government establishments, public sector enterprises including banks and ports, educational institutions including universities, colleges and schools, factories, mines, plantations, agricultural fields, orchards and such other places and for matters connected therewith and incidental thereto.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007 (INSERTION OF NEW ARTICLE 16A AND SUBSTITUTION OF NEW ARTICLE FOR ARTICLE 41)

 

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Constitution of India.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007 (INSERTION OF NEW ARTICLE 21B)

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL (NCT OF DELHI): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Constitution of India.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007 (INSERTION OF NEW ARTICLE 16A)

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL (NCT OF DELHI): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Constitution of India.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

THE YOUTH WELFARE BILL, 2007

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL (NCT OF DELHI): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill to provide for a comprehensive policy for the welfare and development of youths in the country and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

 

SHRI JAI PARKASH AGGARWAL: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

 


THE DESTITUTE, ABANDONED AND NEGLECTED WIDOWS AND OLD WOMEN (WELFARE AND REHABILITATION) BILL, 2007

. סֵ (ָ֟) : ß־ :

׮ָ֟, ֮ ֟-׸ָ ָ ׸֌ ֟ ֣ ֕ ָ ִ֕ þֵ ֮ ָ- ׻֋ և ׾֬־ֆ ֆ ֳֻ, Ӹ, ׾֢ߵ ֵ֟, ־ ֣ ֟֌ ־ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲӬ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

. סֵ : ׾֬ :ãׯ֟

(ִ֯)

THE SCHOOL EDUCATION (REMOVAL OF DISPARITIES BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS THROUGH UNIFORM SYSTEM AND SYLLABUS) BILL 2007

 

. סֵ (ָ֟) : ß־ :

™ߵ ãׯ֟ ׻֋ ִ ֤ ֓ ׻֋ ָָ ׾ֵֻ֪ ִ֕ ִ ׌ֵ ֓ ׻֋ ײ ߓ ִ֮֟ ׳֮֟ ֯ ִ֯ ׻֋ ׿ ִ֮ ִ֮ ֻ ֚ ֟֌ ־ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲӬ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

. סֵ : ׾֬ :ãׯ֟

(ִ֯)

THE SMALL FAMILY BILL, 2007

 

. סֵ (ָ֟) : ß־ :

׮ֹ ֕ ָ ׸ָ ׮ֵ֮ ӲӬ ֵ ִ֬ ֡ עֵ ָ ׸ָ ֮ , ֮ܵ ר , ָ , ٣ ִו ׾ ֣ ׸ãן ӟ֮ ֮ ָ ϳ־ ׮ֵӡ Ӳ׬֟ ־ ֮ ׾ֵ ֲӬ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

. סֵ : ׾֬ :ãׯ֟

(ִ֯)

(Followed by 1H/sss)

SSS-AKG/1H/2.40

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Mahendra Mohan. He is not present. Shri Kalraj Mishra.

THE PRESIDENTIAL AND VICE-PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007

ָ֕ ״ (ָ Ϥ) : , ß־ ™֟ߵ ָ™֟ߵ ׮־ԓ֮ ׬׮ִֵ, 1952 ӿ֮ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

ָ֕ ״ : , ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ (ִ֯)

THE MOTOR VEHICLES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007

ָ֕ ״ (ָ Ϥ) : , ß־ ֮ ׬׮ִֵ, 1988 ӿ֮ ׻֋ ׾֬ :ãׯ֟ ן ֋

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

ָ֕ ״ : , ׾֬ :ãׯ֟

(ִ֯)

THE GENERAL CLAUSES (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT (WEST BENGAL): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the General Clauses Act, 1897.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, I introduce the Bill. (Ends)

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2007

(AMENDMENT OF ARTICLE 15)

MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR (ORISSA): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Constitution of India.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR: Sir, I introduce the Bill.

(Ends)

MESSAGES FROM LOK SABHA

(I)              Motion Re: Extension of time for presentation of the Report of the Joint Committee to examine the constitutional and legal position relating to office of profit.

(II) The Apprentices (Amendment) Bill, 2007.

SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following messages received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of the Lok Sabha:-

(I)

 

Sir, I am directed to inform you that Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on the 7th of September, 2007, adopted the following motion regarding extension of time for presentation of the Report of the Joint Committee to examine the constitutional and legal position relating to office of profit:-

MOTION

"That this House do extend upto last day of the Winter session, 2007 the

time for presentation of the Report of the Joint Committee to

examine the constitutional and legal position relating to office of

profit."

(II)

"In accordance with the provisions of rule 120 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to inform you that Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on the 7th September, 2007, agreed without any amendment to the Apprentices (Amendment) Bill, 2007, which was passed by Rajya Sabha at its sitting held on the 30th of August, 2007".

 

(Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we will take up The Compulsory Voting and Prohibition of Pre-Poll Survey and Exit Poll of Election Bill, 2004. Shri Santosh Bagrodia.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I have told the mover of the Bill that I will speak next week.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Okay. Dr. M. S. Gill.

THE COMPULSORY VOTING AND PROHIBITION OF PRE-POLL SURVEY AND EXIT POLL OF ELECTION BILL, 2004.(CONTD.)

 

DR. M. S. GILL (PUNJAB): Sir, I look forward to Fridays. As my Christian friends might say, 'it is a Good Friday'. We have got the House going and we have got lots of Members present and we have got a very important item to talk about. I am happy that Mr. Narayanasamy managed to get this important Bill on the Election Commission and our electoral management system into discussion and I am glad that the discussion is taking place. I stand here more as a former Chief Election Commissioner and a person who was very much involved in this. Mr. Narayanasamy has taken the trouble to get all the material and the very fundamental basic order of 20th January, 1998 is my order as CEC.

(Contd. by NBR/1J)

-SSS/NBR-SCH/1J/2.45.

DR. M.S. GILL (CONTD.): It is a six page order. We had spent a lot of time in crafting that. Therefore, I will try to assist the House, because it is a matter for the whole House and all the parties something really worth looking at it. Sometimes, I do feel sorry. And, I say it without any rankour that the last Government was in office for six years, really speaking, it did not advance the electoral reforms. I have to say it. And, this Government also, more than three years have gone, there is no occasion when I have heard that it wants to look at this issue collectively. I think it should be looked at. There are so many things to look at. Today what has been brought, through this Bill, are two very simple things. The first one, what I think, is, more a kind of class factor -- upper middle class and people of a certain level -- which think that there should be a compulsory voting. Then, examples are given that some few countries in the world try to do it. Now, this is a matter quite easily dealt with as far as I am concerned. As Chief Election Commissioner, I said it, at least, in my judgment and I say it now. Yes; the material here before me talks about minor countries, here and there, which have tried to suggest that it should be compulsory, every citizen should vote, it is his duty, it is a part of your citizenship duties and, of course, everybody can understand that. In an ideal world, yes, of course, every citizen should vote. There is no denying the necessity of the benefit of doing so. But, when I look at this, out of the countries quoted here, as people who go for compulsory voting, the only one really worth talking of is Australia. It is a highly advanced country, extremely rich with small population. And, they have a US $ 20 fine or $ 100 Australian if you do not vote. They don't really bother to collect it. But, anybody can pay it. It is no big deal. Other countries to talk of are: Fiji, Greece, Liechtenstein and Luxemburg. No. The large countries of democracy in the world, England, France, Germany, America, Canada and I could go on, do not have this. We don't have it. I think this is not something to focus on in my opinion. In fact, I put it another way with my kind of thinking and I had said this as CEC that before you go in for compulsory voting for citizens, putting a duty on citizens that they must go and do this duty, I would like to ask that there should be compulsory food, there should be compulsory shelter, there should be compulsory education and there should be compulsory health. You have not done that. No Government in this country has done this in sixty years and you may not be able to it in another 100 years. So, what are we talking about telling the man who is on the footpath that you have to vote. Otherwise, we will do this and that. Whether my fried is aware of the harassment that is going to cause due to a little punishment which he prescribed here, if God forbid, if you pass such a law? And, do you know every Havaldar will mint money taking every fellow and say, " ֆ ֯ ֛ , ִֵָ ױ ? և, , ׻֋ " Yes; we must have the highest percentage of free voluntary voting. When I was there for eight long years, I worked for it. I will tell you that in one election in six States, I learnt four sentences. I wrote in Roman English. I learnt Bengali, Telugu, Malayalam and Tamil. I wrote two sentences which I wanted to say in Roman letters like the British used to do. I practised it and I went on TV to say again and again, 'Come out and vote. It is good for you, good for the country.' And, I am glad to say, for Parliamentary Elections -- I held three of them -- that I consistently had more than 60 per cent of voting and rather high percentages going up to 70 per cent in State elections. So, the correct way to go for more voting is not compulsory voting in my opinion. It is really for all of us to push for democracy, the Commission to propagate. I used DD a great deal. It is a public broadcaster.

(CONTD. BY VP "1K")

-NBR/VP/PSV/2.50/1K

DR. M.S. GILL (CONTD.): It is a public service channel. I believe, the private channels should be asked to do it. And, they used to do it for me voluntarily by way of certain slogans, encouragement, and so on and so forth. But, I am against compulsory voting. I would suggest that you do not carry it further.

But, the serious thing I want to talk about is this question of opinion polls and exit polls before elections, just before elections and during elections. We just had a seven-phase election. I had personally pushed and taken up major States, like Tamil Nadu, West Bengal, and Assam for one-day polling; at best, a two-day polling. In Uttar Pradesh, if there were difficulties, it was for two days or the maximum might have been for three days. It was over in about ten days with three day gaps. We did it. Now, we have seven-day polling. We had five-day polling in West Bengal and, God knows where we are going to end. And the worry and the great issue before this country is: Can the channels and the Press, of any shape, be allowed to put out opinion polls and opinions right up to the moment when a man is going to go for voting, that is, 48 hours before polling. I will refer to the laws which were passed by this Parliament in 1996. And, other countries have passed it that in the 48 hours before polling, that is, before the first day of polling, can they do this? And, then, something horrendous in my eyes, and in the eyes of the vast majority is, they can go on doing this, including, the so-called exit polls. In the recent Punjab elections, -- I was reading about it; there are lots of cuttings here also -- there were kind of roll on, continuous exit polls during the middle of the polling day, '11 ֕ ߟ ֋, ָ ֋', '1 ֕ ֵ, ߮ ֕ ֵ', ֟ ֟ I would think it is ֟. But it is allowed now. It is going on since my time and I will explain what happened. And, that is a matter of serious concern to this country. All our views that we run a very fair election system, I think, fails with this thing that is happening today. And, no decent democracy in the world allows this. It is considered as a crime or an offence in a number of countries. And, yet, it is going on. Now, what happened is that when I was CEC, frankly, I blocked it. We blocked it. And we sustained that blockage for a while. I think, Chief Justice Barucha was there then. We managed to do it. Then, in one election, I think, in Andhra Pradesh, before a High Court single judge and some other places, the Commission was challenged. We tried and we went to the Supreme Court. For once we got no joy. And, from that time, today it is 2007. Shakespeare said, 'the law's delay.' In this matter, it is continuing. As I always said even in other cases, well, these are the highest matters of democracy and they should get the highest priority in the Supreme Court or in the High Court for hearing these cases, and not bail for Mr. A or Mr. B. Then, they break everything and, immediately, cases are heard. We all see it. But this is a serious matter. It is 2007. And even now, -- there are cuttings here -- it was heard in 2004 after this last election. The current incumbent, Mr. Gopalaswamy, cried against it. All my successors have cried against it. But the case is pending, pending and pending. I think, that is something to be taken note of and something which has to be decided by the Supreme Court or any court immediately after hearing all the political parties and anyone else who is interested. I also feel, and I am surprised I have been saying since then that the political parties should go; them and you and you and everyone should go and demand of the Court that we want this settled. We should know where we are. Now, it is interesting; my order of 20th January, 1998 was casually put away. What is it? We talked everything about how they influence. I have already mentioned that. ...(Interruptions)... And, I called a meeting of all the political parties -- that was one of the methods I was fond of -- on 22nd and 23rd December, 1997... (Continued by PK/1L)

PK/1L/2.55

DR. M.S. GILL (CONTD.): ...before I gave the order on 20th January, 1998. And, there, the broad and strong view was that many of the polls were motivated and were not impartial. I invite you to get a copy of this order because I am just going to touch some of its points from here and there; it is too long. A large number of parties were in favour of restrictions being applied from the date of notification for the elections. Almost all the parties were opposed to allowing the exercise of Exit Polls. They emphatically stated that the results of such Exit Polls, even if permitted, should, in no way, come out before the polling, in all the constituencies, in States and Territories, is over. That is the basic law of the world. It is the basic common sense of fairness. It does not need a great lawyer to explain this to us. Everybody knows it. Then, what does the Canadian Law say? It prohibits the publication of any results of any opinion poll two days before the voting begins. It says, "No person shall broadcast, publish and disseminate the results of an opinion survey ... from midnight the Friday before polling day, which is on Monday, until the close of all polling stations." So, it is 48 hours before, till the last man has voted, at five o'clock. After that, do whatever you like. And, what does the Italian decree of 1995 say? It says, "...it is forbidden to publish or circulate the results of Exit Polls, even if such surveys were carried out before the above-mentioned period." The same thing is here. Now, the strangest thing is that this Parliament of India -- the old Ambedkar Act of 1950-51, Representation of the People Act, -- when this Parliament used to work a little more -- had passed an Amendment Act in 1996, that is, on 1.8.96. It was comprehensive. It is a law which is binding on the Commission and everybody, which I presume the court, should support and apply. It says, " No person shall convene, hold, attend, or, address meetings" -- I am just giving the briefs -- display to the public any election matter by means of cinematography, television, whatever" "..propagate any election matter... in any polling area during the period of 48 hours ending with the..." Forty-eight hours are meant for a calm reflection. ֯ campaign ׻ֵ, I mean, every party. But in the last 48 hours, I, as a citizen voter, have the right to have a calm reflection peacefully in my house to think, shall I vote here, there or there? This is my basic human right, I would say. All their laws say this, be it Canadians, Italians and one can quote even 10 more. The Indian law also says that you cannot do it during the last 48 hours, "....ending with the hour fixed for the conclusion of the polls...". "Any person who contravenes shall be punishable with imprisonment up to two years," -- for God's sake, ֟ -- "and fine, whatever they like to give." And, the election matter should not be displayed means, any matter attended or calculated to influence or affect the result of an election. Can it be broader than that? Can it be more wide-ranging? But, this is what you passed in 1996 and it has been blithely ignored for the last eight years, since 1998, with a situation of stay order, and nobody is interested in trying to bring it to a conclusion, if I may say so. This is your law and this is what you passed. So, we have written in the rest of our order that we obey Parliament, we have read it. I am now reading my order: "The Commission is statutorily bound to take all such steps as will give effect to Parliamentary intent and implement the law." That is what we did, but we had been blocked, and the block remains. I don't mind if there is a short-stay, but after that, get on and hear the case, and let the country know; whatever you say. If you want to open it out, at least, the country will know that that is the final order and we all obey it. This is where it is stuck. Then the Press Council did the same thing. Frankly, they looked at us. As you know, sometimes, you all give Commission slightly less than the Press Council. Yes, there are lawyers and judges sitting here, but, frankly, their order is exactly the same thing because it is the follow on of my order, which our people, our experts and all of us combined gave. No newspaper shall publish Exit Poll surveys, whether genuine or not, till the last of the poll is over. That is the fundamental fairness. After five o'clock, one minute after that, in the world, you can expose your Bhavishyavani of Exit Polls, but how can you give it in the middle of the voting? (Contd. by PB/1M)

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