PREVIOUS HOUR

HK-KLG/3x/5.00

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It has to be completed. It has been listed. We are giving time. But it should be completed within time. ..(Interruptions)..

DR. K. MALAISAMY: This is the most important issue. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Then let us take it up in the next Session under Short Duration. ..(Interruptions)..

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Let us discuss this. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Half-an-Hour should be within the rules. ..(Interruptions).. If sometimes it has taken two hours, that is not the rule. Two hours is not the rule. ..(Interruptions).. Half-an-Hour is the rule. ..(Interruptions)..

0 ֮ : ָ, ֮ 22 ָ ..(־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ֻ ..(־֮֬)

0 ֮ : ָ פ , 22 ָ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֲֻ֟ ָ ָ ..(־֮֬) ..

0 ֮ : ָ, ׾ֵ ֮ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : , ֟ ߅ ..(־֮֬) I have to control the time. The time has to be regulated. Don't say not to regulate the time. ..(Interruptions).. It is against the rules. ..(Interruptions).. You are telling the Chair not to regulate the time. ..(Interruptions).. More than half an hour will not be allowed. ..(Interruptions)..

DR. K. MALAISAMY: I bring it to your kind notice that in the name of Half-an-Hour discussion, we discuss for more than one hour. There is a precedent. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That will not be allowed. ..(Interruptions).. That will not be allowed. ..(Interruptions)..

KUMARI NIRMALA DESHPANDE: You talked about Chairman's discretion. This morning I approached the Chairman for discussing Professor Thorat Committee Report. He promised that it will be taken up. When will it be taken up?

ֳ֯ן : , ߕ, ֯ ׻֋, ߙ ו֋ ....(־֮֬)

0 ֮ : ֳ֯ן , ִ , ִ ֻ , ױֻ ׻֋ ֮ և ״׮Ù ߻ ߅ ..(־֮֬).. ִ ӟָ™ߵ ֵ , ևִ , כ֮ և ֣ ײֻ ִָ֮֮ , ԟ ָ ߻ ߓ ӟָ™ߵ ֻ- , ײֻ ִָ֮֮ ֕ , ׯ֔ ֻ ָ ָ ָ Ù׸ ֙ ׬ָ , ָ , ߻ ׻֋ ָ әֻ ֙ ִֻ ָ ִ , ָ ߻ , ֟֟ ߕ -ָ ָ ָָ ָ ׬ָ ײֻ ֮֮ ָ פ ֮ ִ ׮ֻ , URLs , ָֻ֮֯ ֵָ׌ , http://www.dtic.military/whsdirectivescorrespondence/200506305india. ..(Interruptions)..

SHRI T.R. BAALU: He is roaming around so many things. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Reply while your turn comes. ..(Interruptions)..

DR. E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN: Are we governed by the US proceedings? ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: If this is the situation, I will have to stop the debate. ..(Interruptions).. I will have to stop this. ..(Interruptions).. How much time will you take? ..(Interruptions).. ֯ ׻֋ ...(־֮֬).. ֯ ֮ և ? ...(־֮֬).. , ֯ ֮ և ..(־֮֬)

SHRI T.R. BAALU: No country has got any right to dictate the sovereignty of India. ..(Interruptions)..

0 ֮ : ֳ֯ן , ֕ ֮ ӡ ָ ֤ ֵԾ כÙ ...(־֮֬).. ָ, ٻִֵ ״׮Ù ...(־֮֬).. ָ ? ..(־֮֬).. ָ ָ ? ... (־֮֬)... כÙ , ־֮֬ ֻ ? ֤ ִ֮ ֣ ֋, ָָ ֋ ֟ ׻֋ ָ-ָ ֤ כÙ ..(־֮֬)

SHRI T.R. BAALU: You are misleading the House. ..(Interruptions)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: While replying, you can make your point. ..(Interruptions).. 3y/ ָ

aka-ksk/3y/5:05

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ӡ , ֯ ־ֲ օ ..(־֮֬)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Baalu, you can tell that in your reply...(Interruptions). I will give you time, whatever time you require for your reply. So, please listen to them and then give your reply. , ֯ ֮ ֌ , ֟ ו֋

0 ֮ : ָ, ָ כÙ ִ֯ ׿ֿ օ ֬ ә ִ֯ օ

ֳ֯ן : ֬ ә ״ֻօ ..(־֮֬).. No, it is not possible....(Interruptions). How is it possible?

00 ׻ֵ : ״ֻ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ָ ׻֋, ֯ ֵָ֮ ָ ..(־֮֬).. Half an hour ..(־֮֬)..

00 ׻ֵ : ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ׸Ù , ֮ և ? ..(־֮֬)..

0 ֮ : Half-an-hour ..(־֮֬)..

00 ׻ֵ : ә ..(־֮֬).. Let us discuss this issue. What is the problem?...(Interruptions).

ֳ֯ן : ә ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ, 10-10 ֕ ..(־֮֬).. ׸ , ָ ..(־֮֬)..

00 ׻ֵ : ׸ ..(־֮֬).. ֮ ֋, ׸ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֲ ׸Ù ֟ half an hour ׻֋ ֟ , ֤ ֟ indefinite time ..(־֮֬).. ָ ָ ։ ? ..(־֮֬)..

00 ׻ֵ : ָ, ֯ ָ וûי ײ֮֕ ֓֯ ן ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ֕ ӓ ׻֋ , ָ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : Half-an-hour ә ..(־֮֬)..

׾ ֤ : ָ, ִֵ ֻ ֵ , ֮ ו֋

0 ֮ : 23 ߻ ָ ֵָ׌ פ ֯ Ù׸ ֙ և ֮֟ medial line, ָ ߻ ߓ Administrative Line , ӟָ™ߵ և ֮ և ָ ָ ׾ ׬ָ ִ ֮ ָ ֵ ־ֻ ָ ֻ , ָ ֮ , ָ sovereignty , ֮֯ ߅ ָָ ן ֯ ֮ ָ ׬ָ ׸ ִ֮ ָ ? 23 30 ߆ և ָ ֟ , ֯ և, ֙ ו֋ 2 և ֙ ֵ! ָ , ָ? ָ ֯֙ ӓ ִ ֤ ׸֟Ԯ bathymetry , ִ ӟ׸ Ӹ֮ , ӓ , ָ ָ ָ ֮ , ֟ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֵԻֵ 18 queries ֟ ֓ ߮ ϵֻֿ ִ ֤ bathymetry ׸֟Ԯ ָ ߮ Ӥ ָ ׸ , ׾֮ ӡ , ֮֟ ֟ 23 ֯ և ׻ ֲ ߕ , և ֙ ׸ You surrender your sovereignty to America. ֯ ֮ ִִ ן ֮ Prof. Tad S. Murthy, ׾ ֲ ֛ ִ ϲӬ , ׻ , ֺ օ , I quote, "During the Indian Ocean tsunami of 26th December, 2004, the very southern part of Kerala was generally spared from a major tsunami, mainly because the tsunami waves from Sumatra region travelling south of the Sri Lankan Island, partially diffracted northward and affected the central part of the Kerala coast. Since tsunami is a long gravity wave, during the diffraction process, the rather wide turn it has to take spared south Kerala coast." ֯ ָ ָ Thorium deposits , monazite sand ָ ָ ָ ֯ ã֋ ָ ָ total destruction ֟ , "...and this could impact Kerala. In late 2005, I had a face-to-face discussion in Chennai during a very cordial meeting with Shri Raghupathy (I do not know his exact title, but he is the head of the project, to the best of my knowledge) during which I raised this point. I requested him to consider slightly re-orienting the entrance of the Setu canal on the Bay of Bengal side, so that in future, tsunami events, tsunami energy will not be preferentially funnelled into the Setu canal. Shri Raghupathy assured me that he would look into this matter."

(continued by 3z - gsp/sch)

SCH/5.10/3z

. ֮ (֟): ו ֤ ָ ָָ ִ ϲӬ֮ ϴ ׌ ֵ֮, ӲӬ ֵ ׌ ֯֙ ֵ , ֯ ؓ֟

֯ և כ֙ ׸ ו֋, ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ , It is a man made thing. ֟֟ ָ Ù ״ֻ , ֟֟ ָ ֵ֮ ֵ , ֯ ָ ָָ ־ ׾ֳ ϟ , - " ӓֻ" ? ָ ׸ - " ӓֻ", ױ - ? ָ

֟ ײΕ , , ֲֻ֟ ֮ ָ ײΕ օ ֦ ָþ֟ և ׸ , ֟֟ , ̸ ̴֕ ֻ֑ ߯ ֋ , ֲֻ֟ ָ օ ָ ָ , ׻֋ ָ ִ օ ָ ӣ ׻ ָ ִ , ָ ן ֟ ִ , ׮ֵ ֌ ִ ִ , ָ ִ

ֻ ־ֻ ֲ ָ ֵ , ûִ ָ֔ ״ֻ, և ָ֔ ״ֻ ֲ֮ , ֓և, ָ פ , ָ ֟ ׻֋ ֵ׿֟ , , ׸ָ ֕ ־ֻ ֟ , ־ֻ ׻֋ ? ָ ִ֮ ־ ֲֻ֟ ? ֯ ׸ ִ֮ , ־֮ֆ ֮ , ֙ ־֮ֆ ֮ , ֮

ß ֻ 300 ߙ ֮, ֯ ֟ ֛ ֕ ? ָ ß ֛ ָ ֋, ߻ ֌ ֮ ֛օ , ִ 2,00,000 ֕ ? ֮֟ 32,000 ֤ ֛ ֕ ֋, ֮ ֻ ָ ֻ ֕ օ ױ ֯ ִ֮ ? ֤ ֤ ָ ָ, ׸ ָ ָ ׻֋ ֻ ִ֮ ߕ , ֛ ֕ ? օ ׸ ֟ ֱ ־ ֕ ֋ ֲ ־ ֕ ֋ כٿֵ Ù׻ֵ ֵ ß, ß ׸ ָָ ׻֋ ָ ָָ, ׸ ָ ײֻ , ָ sovereignty ֣ ֕ , ָ ן ֣ ֕ , ָ ٴ ־֮ֆ ֣ ֕ ָ ֡ ׮ֵ ֡ ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ ֮ ָ֬

֯ ֟ ֟ ָ ׸ִ ™ ׿ֿ ִ ֲֻ ׮ , ִ և׮ִֵ ָ ֡ ׮ ָ̲ß ã֮ , ׻֋ ָ ֓ әֻ֮ ֻ ָ , ָ ׸ և ֮֮ ׸ և , ٴ և , ן և ™ ָ ׻֋ ֺ , ֲ ֛ ֟ ָ sovereignty ן׮׬֟ ָ International Waters ָ , ׸ , ָ ߻ Ù׸ և

ӲӬ ߻ ֯עֵ ֮ ָ ֮ ֯ע ֲ ֯ כֻ և ֮ Ù ֛ ֋ ֮ ֛ ָ֟ օ ֯ ߻ ֛ ? әֻ֮ ֻ֟ , ״ ֻ֟ , ևיױ ֻ֟ , Ù׸ ֻ֟ , ߿ֻ֮ ֻ֟ , ָ ֻ֟

֯ ֲ ִ ֋ ו֮ ֯עֵ , ָ פֵ ֋ ӡ ָ פև ֵ֤ פ֋, ֋ ߮-߮ ָ-ָ ָ , ֟ ֻ ֟ ָ ֮ ? ָ ֟ ? ָָ ֯ ָ ֿ ָָ ײֻ ׾ִ֮ ֲ ָ ִ ֵ ֵ ׾ָ ױ , וִָ ָָ ָ ߅ ָ ֮֟ ֮ ٴ þ֟ӡ֟, ן þ֟ӡ֟, ־Գ״ þ֟ӡ֟ ָ ׮ þ֟ӡ֟ ֻ֟ ׾֮™ ִ֟ ָ ֤ ָ ״ֻ ָָ ָ ־ ֻ֮ ִ ֻ֟ ֳ ִõ ִ֮֬ ֟ þָ ׾ָ , ևִ ׾ָ (ִ֯) 4a ָ

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Pp 639 Onwards will be issued as Supplement.

MCM-SK/4A/5-15

HALF-AN-HOUR DISCUSSION ON POINTS ARISING OUT OF ANSWER TO STARRED QUESTION NOS. 405 AND 416 GIVEN ON 3RD MAY, 2007 REGARDING "CAMPAIGN TO PROTECT RAMSETU" AND "SETHUSAMUDRAM PROJECT ENDANGERING LINK BETWEEN INDIA AND SRI LANKA." - (CONTD.)

 

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֬ Ϥ) : ֮־֤ ֳ֯ן ߅ ֳ֯ן , ֬ ә ֓ ߮ ߮ ָ ֕ ֳ ׸ ӡ ָ Ͽ ܵ -405 Ͽ ܵ - 416 ָ ֕ ֤ߵ ֵԴӡ ׾ֵ ֯ ָ ֮ כ֮ ֮ ׻ ֓ ֮ ߅ ָ֮ ׻֋ ֟ ׾ֵ ֮֟ ֮ ׻ ֓ י פ ׻ ֓ ָ ֤ ֮֟ ߅ ֲ 3 և Ͽ ܵ -405 Ͽ ܵ -416 Ӳ׬֟ ֋ ־ֲ ӡ ָ פ ֋ ־ֲ ֟ ָ ׻֋ ֮ ָ ׾֬ ָ ׻ֵ ֱ--ָ ֮ ֬ ә ֓ י ׻֋ פօ ָ ֮ כ֮ ֡ ִ֯ ֟ ָ֓ ״ן ָ , ״ֻ֟ Ӆ ָ ׾֬ ָ ֮ ֟ ״ֻ ָ ֱ--ָ כ֮ þ և ߅ Ͽ ־ֲ , Ͽ ָ ӡ ן־ ߸ִ ׻֋ ߸ִ ׾ָ ׻֋ ״ֻ ָ Ͽ ָ ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ ׮ ֯ ָ ֟ ָ ӡ ֮֮ ֟ ֛ ן׮׬ִӛ ߸ִ ׻֋ ִ ™ן ״ֻ֮ ֵ օ ֤ ֮֮ߵ Ϭ֮ ӡ ״ֻ Ϭ֮ ӡ ן׮׬ ӛ ֯ ״ֻ֮ ׻֋ ֲ ן׮׬ִӛ ֯ ״ֻ ֮֯ ֯ ։, þֵ ֯ פ։ ֯ ֆ ׮ָ օ ֕ ֟ ֮ פ ֋, ֯ ִӡ ӟָ֕ , ֮֯ ֵ, ֮֯ פֵօ ־ ֲ 0 ֮ ֟ ֡ ׻ օ ֡ ן־ ? ָ֮ ָ ָ ֵ֓ ן׮׬ֵ ן׮׬ ӛ ֯ ָָ ֯ ߵ ӡ ֣ Ϭ֮ ӡ ״ֻ , ֯ ״ֻ օ ן־ ? ֯ ָָ סֵ ֯ ֡ ׻ ן־ ? ֯ ֚ ֯ ן־ ״ֻ, ־ֲ ֮ פ ӡ ֟ ֤ , ׻ פ ֟ However some other representations have been received. ָ ֚ ן־ ״ֻ ו֮ ָ ׻ ֯ ־ֲ ֤ ֯ ן־ ״ֻ ֯ ֬ ֋ ֮֯ ן־ ו օ Ͽ ׸ױ֮ , Ͽ ܵ -405 ָ ֮֯ פ օ

Ͽ ܵ -416 ־ֲ ֮֯ ֮־ ׮״ԟ և ӓ ׮ ֟և פ ֵ ־ֲ ָ֮ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ օ þִ ֻ ָ֮ ָ ־֮ ִ ֮־ֵ օ ָ ״ֻ ֋ ָ ׯ׾ֻ ֋ ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ օ ֲ ֯ ־ֲ ֜ ָ ؾÙ ֻٓ ٓ֟ ֤ ֵ, ֵ֤ ֮֯ ָ ֻٓ ֟ ָ ß ֙ ֋ ֮ ևԾָ Where are we? ևԾָ ָ, We are in the car. ֮ Is this the way of answering the question? ֮ Sir, this is the way you answer the questions in Parliament. ֟ , ָ Where are we? They were in the car. ևԾָ -We are in the car. ־ֲ օ ֟ և ־ֲ օ ׮ ӓ ׸ և ָ פֵ ֵ, ß֮ ׾֮֕ ָ פֵ ֵ, ? ӓ , ֯ ֮֮ ָ ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ ׮ 000 և ָ פֵ ֵ, ו ָ ִִ ׾֮֕ ֻ ׸ , ӓ ? ָ ׮ ָ֮ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ ֯ ֮־ ׮ٴ֟ ӓ ֟և ֓ ׮ ֋ ֯ ׸ױ֮ , ӓ ׾֮֕ ָ (4B ָ ֿ:)

YSR-GS/4B/5.20

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ (֟) : ֟ 0 , ֮ ֻ ֟ ߔ ӓ ָ - ָ, ׾ֵ - ָߵ ã ־֮ ߸ִ ֵԤ ִ ß , ֮֮֟ , ׻֋ ־֮ , ׻֋ ֵԤ ִ ָ ָ ֮ , ß֮ ן ֤ ׻֋ - ָߵ ã ׾ֵ , ֟

ָ ֟ ׸ִ ָ ӛָ ָ ֛ ָ, ִ ϟ ӟ ִ֟ ֟ , ִ ֓־ ִ֟ ֟ ӓ־, ָ ֲ ֓߮ ָ ֳ֯ן , ֯ ִ֬ ִ ָ ׾֬ ׻֋ ֱ ӓ-ӓ ָ ו֮ ָ ׾֬ ..(ִֵ ә)... ָ ֟ ״֮֙ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ߅ ֟ ֯ ־֮ ãֆ ֟ ӡ , ָ ָ ߚ ֟, ָ ֵ֓ ߚ ߚָ֬ ָ Ӥ֮ 韾 ׻֋ ֵ ָ , ٴ ֵ֮ ׻֋ ֲ-ֲ ֟šߚ ֵ֮ , ָ -Ԯ , ֮ ׾ֺ Ӥ֮ և ׻֋ ֟ þֺ֮Ӥ ָþ֟, ׮ֻֿ֮Ӥ ָþ֟, þִ ָߵ ߣ ִֻ߻ ֮ ֵ, Ӥ֮ 韾 , ו ׻֋ ָ-ָ ׻֟ , ו ׻֋ ֮֕ ׻֟ , ו ׻֋ ӟ ֟ ׻֟ , ֯ Ӥ֮ ִ֟ ֟ , ׻֋ ֯ ֵ֕ ֮ ֛ Ӥ֮ ׮ ֯ ֢ ß , ָ ߸ִ ß ֯ ׮Ե , ׮Ե ֯ ֤׻ֵ ß֮ ãֆ ֯ ֮ ׸ ׮Ե ֤, ֯ ֢ ֓, ָ ֯ ֢ ֓ ִִ ֟ ָ ו֋ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

־֟ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ֮֯ ִ ׸֮ ֓ פ, ׻֋ ֯ ֳָ

ֳ֯ן : ֯ 꿓֮ ה ׸ױ֮ ה

־֟ : ֮־ָ, ׸֮ ֕֯ 韾 ֻ ֕ ָָ ֵֻ , ӲӬ , ׾ָ ׻֋ ִ ӲӬ ָ ן ™ߵ ô֟ ֮־ָ, Ͽ ִ ־ֵ֮ ־֮ֆ ׸ ׸ ӟ׸ ã "" ß֟ ϴ֟ ֮־ָ, ֣-֣ "" ָ ... ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ־ֻ ה ..(־֮֬)..

֮ ֻ ӛ : ָ, ״ ֮ ..(־֮֬)..

00 ׻ֵ : ָ, ֮ ו֋ ..(־֮֬)..

־֟ : ֮־ָ, ֓ ֮ ֟

ֳ֯ן : ֓ ..(־֮֬)..

־֟ : ֮־ָ, ד֡ ϴ֟ ָ ߻ ߓ ִ ֜ 17 ָ ֮ ß֟ ֣ ™ߵ ָ , ß ָ ָ ™ ֮־ָ, ײי ֮ ֻ ָ ִ ־ ־ ֕ ־ִ֮ ׻֋ ™ ֮ ߅ ֮־ָ, ֮ þָ օ ֤ ֟ ֦ ֕יָ ï™ 1480 ָ ߻ ߓ ־ִ֮ (4 ָ ָ)

-GS-YSR/SC-VKK/5.25/4C

־֟ (֟) : ָ ָ ִִ ߻ ׻֋ ߻ ָ , ִ , ִ ׸֮ ״ֻ֛֮ 13 ֙ߵ וֻ , ָ ϳ׾֟ ֲ , ָ֔ ָָ ָ ֋ , ִִ ӟָ™ߵ ֚ ֮ ִ ֻ֟ ָ ִ ֮ ׮ֵ ߮ ߾ָ ֡ -և ָ ֮ , ױ ß ׻֋ ӓ ָ ֮־ָ, ׮ֵ ֟ ֵֿ ָָ ִ ׮ֵ ֵֿ ״ֻ ֵ֓ ֋ ӟָ™ ָ þָ ֋ (ִ֯)

ֳ֯ן : ֮ ֻ ӛօ

׾ ֤ : ӛ , ֯ ֮ ֟ օ

֮ ֻ ӛ (ײָ) : , ִ֕־֤ ֯ ֮֟ ֮ ֮֟ , ֤ߵ 0 ֮ ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ ֟ ָ ֣ ֋ , ִ ֣ ֟ , - ֟ן ָ - ׮ ־ , ִ Õ֤ ָ ֱ ٴ ־֮ , ָ ן ־֮ ָ ן ָ ־ , ָָ߮ ָ ָָ߮ ִ ϟ - ָָ߮ ָ ֟ן ן ָ , ׸ִע ׻֋ ָ ־ ָ ־ , ֕ ֓ ָ þ פ ָ ־ ߕ ֱ ٴ ־֮ ֟ ֤ Ͽ ֋ , 0 ִ ӛָ ֣ - ӡֵֻ , ׿د ״׮Ù օ ָ Ͽ ֵ , ן ӡֵֻ ־ֲ ׿د ״׮Ù ־ֲ ֵ, ִ ׮ ן ӡֵֻ ־ֲ , ִ ֟ן ֲֻ֟ ӓ և ֵ ִ ֟ ִ þֺ , ֕ օ ָ ִ , ָ ָ ׾־֤ ָָ ָ ֮ ִ ִ ™ן ֮֯ פ ֵ, ֮־ָ Ϭִ֮ӡ Ӳ׬֟ ӡ ֵօ ָָ ֤ ֟ ֻ, ֤ Ͽ ־ֲ ӡֵֻ ֵօ ָ ָָ ֮ ֟ ֵ ֲ ָָ ֮ ֟ ֵ ӓ ִָ֓ ֡ ָ ֟ ֵ ׮ և ֟ ֵ , ֮֟֯ ֋, ָ ָ ־ ֋ ָ ߕ ן ָ ϴ , ו ß֟ ָ ָ ß , ֱ ã ־ֻ , ָ ן ׾ָ֟ ־ֻ ו ™ (4-֯ ָ ֟)

-VKK-TMV-MP/4D/5.30

֮ ֻ ӛ (֟) : ׻֋ ָָ ֮֮ canal ֮ , ִ ׸ әÙ , ִ ָ әÙ ֛ ߻ , ߻ ֯ע ֻ ֯ע þָ , ֻ ָ ߴ ֟ , ׮֮ ־ֲ , ߻ ֲ ָ ֯ע , ָָ ӳ߸ פև ? ָ ֳ , ׾ ׸֤ ָ , ִ֕־֤ , ֲָ Õ֤ ִ , ִ Õ֤ ִ , þ פ ִ ִ ִ ִϤ׵ ֮ע , ׻֋ ִ ָ ֲ ֟ , ׮׿֟ ׮ ӓ ֟ן ־ ָ ִ , Ӹ ־ֿ ׾֮™ ֮ ָָ ָ ӳ߸ ׾ָ֓ , ָ ־֮ ־֮ ֟ ֣, ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ָָ ֮֮ ָָ ׮ ־ ֋? ָָ ֟ן ־ ֋ ֲ ִ ׸֮ , ? ֟ ֣ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRIMATI S. G. INDIRA (TAMIL NADU): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, for giving an opportunity to speak on this important topic. I hail from the district of Ramanathapuram where the Rameswaram bridge is situated. This is a golden opportunity that you have given to me. So, I must thank you for that, at the outset.

Sir, Sethusamudram Ship Canal project, which envisages dredging of a ship canal across Palk Strait between India and Sri Lanka, is finally taking shape now. It is said that the project would allow ships sailing between east and west coasts of India to have direct passage through Indian territorial waters. Here the issue to be opposed is that the Government is attempting to destroy the evidence of the existence of a mythological bridge, that is, Ramsetu, as described in the Hindu epic, Ramayana. It has been described so in the Ramayana which I read in the morning. It had been built with the help of Vanaras and Nala, the son of Samyukta, and with the aashirvad of Lord Samudra. It has been mentioned in the Ramayana like that. I have seen all this evidence in the epic, Ramayana.

Now, I come to my party's view. Madam (Dr.) J. Jayalalita, the supreme leader of my party, is also opposing the demolition of Ramsetu on the ground that the project would destroy the marine ecology of West Bengal and deprive the fishermen of their livelihood. (Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No. The rule is very clear. I will not allow any new names because the rule is very clear.

SHRIMATI S. G. INDIRA: Sir, the survey shows that there is a mark from Rameswaram to Dhanushkoti to Sri Lanka. It has been found and mentioned as Adam's Bridge. It is also borne out by NASA images. The USA space agency, NASA, has established the antique nature of the bridge. Everywhere efforts are on to protect historical monuments. The world over Governments are protecting the historical monuments. But here the Government, the Ministry, is particular about the demolition of Ramsetu. I don't know the reasons. It can't be accepted by all the people of India. This is the view of our party. Finally, I would like to say that this action is hurting, particularly, the Hindus. It was under water when the bridge was constructed by Lord Rama with the help of Vanaras in his campaign against Ravana. The satellite image of NASA has confirmed the existence of the bridge. (Contd. by VK/4E)

VK/4E/5.35

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA (CONTD): Finally, after all the views of the concerned people and the Opposition, we get a reply from the Minister, "A few more dredgers would be chartered from other countries" He is very particular about the demolition of Ramsetu. He has also mentioned, "There is no evidence where 91 places revealed that there was no man-made bridge." But how can the NASA exhibit it? How can some leaders, without any scientific evidence, say, "Anti-national People". They do not know anything about the history. They are very particular about their family, which should be in power. Thank you.

(Ends)

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: Sir, kindly give me one minute.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no. It cannot be done. (Interruptions). It is not possible.

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: Sir, I hail from Tamil Nadu.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is all right. (Interruptions). Please sit down. (Interruptions). What is this? There should be some order. Mr. Malaisamy, you are a very disciplined Member. Please sit down. (Interruptions).

SHRI K. MALAISAMY: Sir, I am not asking you to permit me to speak. But after the reply of the Minister, would you give me a minute to clarify?

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: Sir, I would like to make a request to the hon. Minister. I also hail from Tamil Nadu. We are all interested in the project, as mentioned by Dr. Joshi and Shrimati Sushma Swaraj. Nobody is objecting to the project. It is only the question of route. My request to the Minister is this. Many valid points have been made by our leaders and all other party leaders and so many Sadhus, technocrats, engineers, experts, etc. have expressed their opinion. This route is not correct. There is a temple.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: This has already been said. Make some new point.

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: One minute. In the corner, there is a temple. There is a gap between the temple and the Ramsetu bridge. That should be the way for the new channel. Why doesn't the Minister consider it? Let him constitute a committee and start the work now. Already 150 years are over. Nothing has happened. If it is delayed further, the cost would increase further. Would the Minister consider this point?

THE MINISTER OF SHIPPING, ROAD TRANSPORT AND HIGHWAYS (SHRI T.R. BAALU): Sir, in view of the pendency of two court cases vide No. 59 of 2006 in the Subordinate Court of Ramanathpuram and Writ Petition 2262 of 2007 in the hon. court of Allahabad, the matter pertaining to implementation of Sethusamudram Channel is sub judice. In spite of knowing fully well, the Chair has allowed Half-an-Hour Discussion and my old friend, Dr. Joshi, who is a Science graduate and Professor ....(Interruptions)....eminent Professor in the Allahabad University...(Interruptions) . I don't want to insinuate him because he is my old friend. Each and every Government and this Government also has to abide by the Constitution. Article 51 A (h) of the Constitution, which he also quoted, says, "It shall be the duty of every citizen of India to develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform." (Followed by 4F)

RG/5.40/4F

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: That is the only thing which I have been saying.

SHRI T.R. BAALU: My dear friend, who is an eminent professor of the Allahabad University, knows that for any project of this kind, there is a reconnaissance study, and everybody concerned with the project, would undertake surveys; there will be a DFR and DPR, and then the whole process goes on. Whoever is in the Government, as well as, many of my friends know this very well. I can tell my friends how many people have put their heads into this project and how many processes they have undergone in this. Right from 1998 to 2005, fifteen scientists, Ph.D. level doctorates, from the National Environmental Research Institute (NEERI) have involved themselves and participated in the study. Two IIT professors from Chennai and two eminent doctors of NIOT, Chennai, have participated in this study. One Prof. Sambandan of the NSDRC has also been involved in this study. Dr. B.R. Subramanian of the Department of Ocean Development. Ten doctors of the Central Marine Fisheries Research Institute, seven doctors of Infrastructure Development and Miscellaneous Projects, seven doctors and eminent members of the Environmental Monitoring Committee, four doctors of eminence in science faculty of Indomer Coastal Hydraulics Pvt. Ltd., seven eminent persons of Alkyon Hydraulic Consultancy and Research, two persons of eminence of the National Hydrographic Organisation, three members of Tidal data collection, Kodiykkarai and three from the Tida data collection, INS 'Sandhayak", have participated in the preparation of the projects. Sir, various studies have been made. Many of my friends have said that studies have not been made and a proper application of mind was not there. But the fact is that various studies have been made, and a study was made my Madam Uma Bharati herself; she was the Minister of Minerals and Mines. I have already informed the other august House that hon. Shri Jaitley, when he was Minister of Shipping, proposed it, and Shri Thirunavukkarasar, as Minister of State, prepared the grounds and submitted the matter before Shri V.P. Goel, who was the Minister at that time...(Interruptions) After that, Shri Shatrugan Sinha...(Interruptions)

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: Sir, one minute, please...(Interruptions) Since he has mentioned my name, I would like to clarify...

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Why do you interfere?(Interruptions) There is evidence in the files. What is your problem? I only paid encomium to you that you were instrumental in initiating this project...(Interruptions) My mentor, Shri Shatrugan Sinha, had written a letter...(Interruptions) And, in response to a Special Mention put by one of the former Members, Shri Sanjay Nirupam,...(Interruptions) If you want, I can read everything. These are all evidences...(Interruptions) What is this? If they disturb like this,...(Interruptions)

SHRI SU. THIRUNAVUKKARASAR: Why don't you yield?(Interruptions) I would only like to say that we had not selected this route...(Interruptions) We only asked the NEERI to explore the feasibility of this project...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Okay; you have made your point that you did not clear the route...(Interruptions) (Continued by 4G)

4g/5.45/ks

SHRI T.R. BAALU: I can read from the files. So many things are there. Shatrughan Sinhaji has written, "The first study report on Rapid A.A. and the project was submitted by NEERI in October, 2002, suggesting fresh alignment through Adam's Bridge, east of Pamban islands. What is that alignment? I will just show it to you so that they can understand how it has been aligned. This is the report submitted. This was discussed by the Minister. (Interruptions) Why do you say? You should not misinform the House. (Interruptions) Sir, this is the... (Interruptions) Sir, this is the alignment. (Interruptions) This is the medial line, the small line... (Interruptions) This is the alignment cutting across... (Interruptions)

THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please. I can't allow you. (Interruptions) This is not a debate. (Interruptions) No, no. This is not a debate. (Interruptions) You have made your points. (Interruptions)

SHRI T. R. BAALU: Sir, they said that we have not gone in depth to verify whether any manmade things are there or not. Well, these are all in files. I do not want to take the time of the House. But I do want to say one thing. Sir, Ms. Uma Bharati was the Minister of Mines and Minerals. This is a newsletter released by the Geological Survey of India. This is of September 2003 (Volume XVII, No.2). Sir, I can quote from this. Sir, all my friends had approved it. That is a good thing. The Project Rameswaram was envisaged at that point of time and Ms. Uma Bharati wanted to know whether any manmade structures were there. It is natural. Any person would like to explore the possibilities scientifically. Sir, I quote:-

"Satellite imageries over the South Indian coast, the North Sri Lankan coast and the adjoining sea released by NASA were published in the Indian newspapers to suggest that India and Sri Lanka were once joined by the Adam's Bridge. It was also reported that the bridge may have its origin at about 0.175 Ma. Honourable the then Union Minister of Coal & Mines, Sadhvi Uma Bharati evinced keen interest in this news item and discussed the issue with the Director General, GSI and the Dy. Director General, Marine Wing, GSI. She desired that the GSI should take up an R&D project on the past climatic fluctuations in the area to establish a probably palaeogeography of this terrain".

 

It is further stated here:-

 

"Shri P. C. Shrivastava, Dy. Director General, Marine Wing, GSI, accordingly planned and launched a special programme, "Project Rameswaram", in an incredibly short time in four phases -- (i) reconnoitory survey, (ii) drilling in the Dhanuskodi Foreland, offshore surveys involving collection of bathymetric data, seabed samples, side scan sonar images of the seabed, (iii) drilling in one of the islands within the EEZ of India and (iv) laboratory studies including dating of the samples towards construction of the chronological climatic fluctuations in the past. The programme was implemented on a war-footing from December, 2002 to March, 2003 under the dynamic leadership and an impeccable supervision of Shri Srivastava himself".

 

Sir, now, once again, what is the finding? It says, and I quote again:-

"Three boreholes, approximately 4 kms apart, were drilled to collect subsurface sediment/rock samples towards generating geological data for suggesting a possible geological milieu of the Dhanuskodi Foreland and the Adam's Bridge. The first borehole at Mundram Chatram near CRPF Camp was drilled up to 120 m depth and the third borehole at the first island of the Adam's Bridge up to 103m depth.

The result was, and it says further:-

 

"The sedimentation pattern clearly points to the past sea level fluctuations. Preliminary studies suggest that all the boreholes are within the Upper Quaternary period".

 

Upper Quaternary period, Dr. Joshi knows, means, from today it is five to seven lakh years ago. (Contd. by 4h/tdb)

TDB-AKG/4H/5.50

SHRI T.R. BAALU (CONTD.): That means, it is not 17.5 lakh years. But whatever it may be, Sir, I want to reiterate one thing in the presence of hon. Dr. Manmohan Singh, who is the Prime Minister of India, who is a secularist himself and the Government run by him has a secularist approach -- I want to say it with all strength at my command, -- never intend to hurt the feelings of any religion, including the Hindu religion.

Sir, from here you can understand how Uma Bharti herself wanted to know the palaeogeography of that particular area. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I don't want to go into the details of any other thing, other than scientific evidences. I only said, and I only reiterate that the scientific evidence has shown that there were no man-made structures. ...(Interruptions)... At the same time, Sir, I would like to say that my friend, Dr. M.M. Joshi who is the mover of the Motion was the Minister of Human Resource Development. He was in-charge of Culture Department also. If he was really interested on this subject matter, then, he would have declared that particular site as a heritage site, during the time of the previous Government. Why has he not done it? Or, at least, he could have recommended it to the UNESCO to declare it as an international heritage site. He did not do that because he is a scientist and he knows that there was no man-made structure. ...(Interruptions)... That is why he had not done it.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, what the hon. Minister is saying is totally irrelevant. The issue is, whether this is a setu...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, is your reply over?

SHRI T.R. BAALU: No, Sir. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: ...it should be broken or not. For declaring it as a heritage site, there is a rule and regulation and there is a method through which sites are declared as heritage sites. ...(Interruptions)... Many sites of India were declared as heritage sites during my ministership.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is his question. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: He cannot make absurd allegations.

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Sir, my friend knows, the previous Government of which I was also the part and parcel, there was no discussion about ...(Interruptions)... heritage sites or cultural sites. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: He should clearly tell the House what happened on 23rd June...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Joshiji, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Let the Minister reply.

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Sir, from 1980 to 2005, studies were going on. At that point of time, did anybody raise any issue? Sir, for 13 times there were public hearings. You know many eminent environmentalists are there. The public hearings were held 13 times. There were three rounds, not one. There were three rounds. Thanks to my friends from opposition there. They made me to go three rounds. There were three rounds of public hearings. Any single petition by anybody on that matter could have objected to that particular site. They only declared it. Sir, the genesis lies in their decision. It is not with me. It is not with Dr. Manmohan Singhji. The genesis lies in their decision. They have finished the alignment. Sir, on July 2, 2005 the hon. Prime Minister had inaugurated the project. How come after two years people are now making a hue and cry about it? Where is the possibility? Sir, I can only say...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : פֵ, , ֮ ? פֵ, ָߵ ׾֮֕ ָ פֵ ֵ, ?

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: She wants to know what the NASA has shown about it. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI T.R. BAALU: You are correct. I agree with you. ...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ ֮֮ ־ֲ ֵօ ֮֮ ? Just tell us, what was telecast? ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI T.R. BAALU: You are very much correct, Madam. I have to thank you for having reminded me. ...(Interruptions)...

ִ ֻ ֳϾֻ : ִ , ִ ָ ... (־֮֬) ...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ִ ֻ ֯ ִ ֯ ִ ֋

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Sir, my former colleague, the most important person...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: He was in the same Cabinet, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is why he is saying, 'my former colleague'. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Sir, I have to thank her for having reminded me to say something about the NASA. Sir, the NASA had published a particular image in 1983 itself, not some two years back or three years back. There is an evidence of that. If you want, I can show you everything. (Contd. by 4j-kls)

kls/4j-5.55

SHRI T.R. BAALU (CONTD): But what is the reaction of eminent scientists, historians, etc. in India? Sir, what they say it is given in website of the Times of India. Dr. J.V. Narlikar, I think, he is from Maharashtra, an eminent astrophysicist, when contacted in Pune said he has seen the reports claiming about the mythical bridge but there was no evidence to suggest that located the links with the bridge mentioned in Ramayana. That is a different issue. Dr. R.S. Sharma, an authority of Indian History says there is no archaeological or literary evidence to support this claim. Eminent historian told this to the Times of India in Patna. ...(Interruptions)... Now, I come to what J.N. Sharma has said. He is from Delhi University. ...(Interruptions)... He is J.N. Jha, he is professor of history of Delhi University, Sir. He says what has been captured by NASA camera was geological formation. The issue had more to do with geology than history. ...(Interruptions)... Since the claim was 2.75 million years old, to link that with Ramayana and Rama is ridiculous. ...(Interruptions)... Linking just anything with Ramayana and Mahabharta may be mythology but it certainly is not history. ...(Interruptions)... I want to know ...(Interruptions)... Please allow me to speak. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, after the NASA's observation, the Government has written to NASA. ...(Interruptions)... The implementing agency has written to NASA, but there is no reply. Sir, what my friends have said just now has disappeared from the Website of NASA itself. Can you go out and retrieve it today? ...(Interruptions)... Can you go out and retrieve it from NASA's website today? (Interruptions)... Why has it disappeared? ...(Interruptions)... It is because this is void. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S. S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, he is misleading the House. ...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ahluwalia, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... This is not a debate. It is a question. You sought clarifications. ...(Interruptions)... The Minister has answered them. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: He is misleading. ...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He is not misleading the House. ...(Interruptions)... He has given his opinion. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI T.R. BAALU: Now I come to what they have said about Dr. Tad S. Murty, who is an eminent tsunami expert. ...(Interruptions)... His observation was reported in some newspapers on 28.1.2005 in some of the newspapers. Chairman of TPT contacted him through E-mail on 28.2.2005 but he has not received any reply. Then again he contacted the Baird Coastal Engineers, Ottawa, Canada where Dr. Murty worked in April 2005 and requested them to send the e-mail to Dr. Murty. Dr. Murty responded on 9.4.2005 through e-mail. Sir, Chairman, TPT once again e-mailed on 21.09.2005 explaining the rationale of selection of alignment. Dr. Murty in an interview stated to www.rediff.com on 29.9.2005, "I am not against the Sethusamudram Project. I think it is a good project. What I suggest is slight modification of 0.1 per cent. If there is a reorientation of the eastern entrance of the channel towards the northwest, it will fix the tsunami problem." The terms of reference for a study by Dr. Murty were also communicated to him. We communicated the terms of reference and how to go about it. Once again...(Interruptions)... Sir, Dr. Murty had detailed discussion with the Chairman of the Tuticorin Port Trust who is the Managing Director of the Sethusamndram Corporation also on 28.12.2005. During the discussion our Chairman wanted to know about his cooperation and association with our project. In an interview at that time, he says, that you interact with some organisation in Delhi and he said that he should not be given nomination, but at the same time, we will try and we will interact further so that we can come to a conclusion. Any changes, you want, we can do it. ...(Interruptions)... Any changes means what he has proposed is .1 per cent alignment. The total length is 186 kms and .1 per cent is three meters only. What he has suggested I will read that because then only you can understand. Sir. He said, "What I suggest is a slight modification of 0.1 per cent; if there is a reorientation of the eastern entrance of the channel towards the northwest, it will fix the tsunami problem." (Contd by 4K/sss)

 

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