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-VKK/MKS/PSV/5.00/2z

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD.): Whether we can instruct our Police people or the concerned people to be more alert on the issue is a question before us. Sir, our Police have no modern weapons. They have outdated weapons while the enemies have sophisticated arms like AK-47 rifles. Our police officers have only revolvers. I don't think that unless and until such stronger weapons than the weapons held by the terrorists are given to them, the situation would improve. Therefore, what else is required is already expressed by Mr. Arun Jaitley in detail. You require to have a strong Act to take action against the terrorists. The POTA was cancelled for political reasons, and, thereafter, no new Act was enacted in place of POTA. Therefore, it is necessary that such things are done. The problem before the country is this. I have mentioned about certain parts. It is also true that the Islamic terrorism and the Maoist insurgency are the problems which we are facing today. I personally feel that a special law has to be enacted if we really want to save the people of our country.

And my last point is about appeasement. Sir, on this issue, I have to again quote the Prime Minister's statement. The hon. Prime Minister has said--it is a very important statement, Sir:

"We must recognise that the Muslim community in large parts of

the country nurses a strong grievance of not having been active

participants and beneficiaries on processes of social and economic

development. All of us have an obligation to redress legitimate

grievances of our minorities."

Sir, I agree with this; I personally feel that legitimate grievances of minorities are to be resolved. I am not against the Muslims nor was I ever against the Muslims. And for the information of hon. Members, I would only say that during my tenure as Chief Minister, since somebody mentioned about it, there was not a single riot against the Hindus and the Muslims in Maharashtra; that was the period. Therefore, it is not that I am speaking something against the Muslims, but I am against the appeasement that is being done by the Government, and also by the Congress Party, in respect of Muslims.

Sir, I have already mentioned about the sentiments of the people of our country. I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the Government knows that it is not the poor, illiterate, unemployed Indian Muslims alone but even the educated people who become terrorists. Sir, the information now received is--Sir, the Minister can correct me if I am wrong. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Terrorists are also there in other religions. Why do you specialise? ...(Interruptions)... This is not the kind of argument to make. ...(Interruptions)... Why do you say 'this community' or 'that community'? Terrorists are terrorists. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Narayanasamyji, you have made your point. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, if we want to give a correct medicine, the diagnosis must be correct. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, if diagnosis is not correct, no proper medicine will be found. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, what is the kind of argument that he is making? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayansamy, please sit down. You have made your point. ...(Interruptions)... You have made your point.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, he is a senior Member. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You have made your point. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: *

׾ֵ֕ ָ :*

ֵָ : *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Nothing else except Mr. Manohar Joshi will go on record. ...(Interruptions)...

------------------------------

*Not recorded.


SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

׾ֵ֕ ָ :*

ֵָ : *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): ֯ ָ և ...(־֮֬)... Please carry on, Mr. Joshi. ...(־֮֬)... Please carry on. ...(Interruptions)... , ֯ ך ...(־֮֬)... Please carry on, Mr. Joshi. ...(Interruptions)... Please carry on.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, during the last Session, I have requested......(Interruptions)... Mr. Narayanasamy, I am replying to your point. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I will reply to him. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD:*

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. V. Narayanasamy, you have made your point. He is going to clarify it. ...(Interruptions)... If you allow him, he will clarify the point. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Nothing else except Mr. Manohar Joshi's speech is going on record.

(Contd. by TMV/3A)

------------------------------

*Not recorded.

TMV-KLG/3A/5.05

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Nothing is going on record. (Interruptions)... Joshiji, please carry on. (Interruptions)... Panyji, please. (Interruptions)... Panyji, please. (Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

SHRI RUDRA NARAYAN PANY: *

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, this was the question which I raised in the last debate on Mumbai blasts in the House. (Interruptions)....

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I will not go away from my point. (Interruptions)... I have said that this appeasement policy is also creating internal disturbances. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Pany Sahib, please. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I will give you examples. (Interruptions)... I will give you examples. (Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANSAMY: You don't talk about any particular religion. (Interruptions)... If you want to say something, you say in general. (Interruptions)... There are terrorists in the Hindu religion also. There are terrorists in the Muslim religion. (Interruptions)... There are terrorists in the Christian religion also. But terrorists are terrorists. (Interruptions)... But why do you distinguish them? (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamy, you made your point. (Interruptions)... Let him clarify. (Interruptions).. Please give him a chance. (Interruptions)... Please give him a chance to clarify. (Interruptions)... Please give him a chance to clarify. (Interruptions)...

------------------------------

*Not recorded.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, the partition is created for the appeasement and for vote-bank. (Interruptions) This is for vote-bank that you people have given this appeasement. (Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANSAMY: Why are you targeting Muslims alone? (Interruptions)... Why are you targeting them alone? (Interruptions)... You are doing that. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: We are not doing that. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): May I request you to let me handle it? (Interruptions)... Please let me handle it. (Interruptions)... Will you let me handle it? (Interruptions)... Will you let me handle it? (Interruptions)... Will you let me handle it? (Interruptions)... May I request you to let me handle it? (Interruptions)... Please let me handle it. (Interruptions)... Let me handle it. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: This is only for vote-bank. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please let me handle it. (Interruptions)... Please sit down. (Interruptions)... Let me handle it. (Interruptions)... Please let me handle it. (Interruptions)... Joshi Sahib, can you just clarify your point? (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I was mentioning... (Interruptions)....

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: He is clarifying the point. (Interruptions)... Nothing is going on record. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I was mentioning that during the last debate in the House on the Mumbai blasts I had requested the hon. Minister to lay on the Table of the House the list of those accused people. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Let him speak. (Interruptions)... Let him speak. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Why are they not tabling the list? (Interruptions)... Their reply is with the hon. Minister. (Interruptions)...

DR. FAROOQ ABDULLAH: Sir, most of us have to go. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: In the 1993 Mumbai bomb blasts what had happened? (Interruptions)...

0 ֺ : ִֵָ , ֣ ֟ .. (־֮֬) .. ֮ ־ֲ , ו ֮ ߕ, ֯ ֆ, ֱ ֟ , ֻ֟ օ ..(־֮֬)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Farooq Sahib, do you agree with his argument? (Interruptions)...

DR. FAROOQ ABDULLAH: No, I don't agree. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Narayanasamyji, I have to find out... (Interruptions).... Please one minute. (Interruptions)... I want to say something. The House can't run like this. Do you want the debate to continue or do you want the House to be adjourned? (Interruptions)... This can't continue like this. I am sorry. (Interruptions)... You have made your point, Mr. Narayanasamy. Joshiji is likely to clarify whatever he has spoken. (Interruptions)... Kindly bear with him. (Interruptions)... Kindly bear with him. (Interruptions)... This can't continue like this. I am sorry. (Interruptions).... , ߕ ֯ և (Interruptions)... Narayansamyji, if you don't want to listen to the debate, I have no problem in adjourning the House. (Interruptions)... You have made your point. (Interruptions)... Let him clarify. (Interruptions)... Let him clarify. (Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANSAMY: My demand is that what he is talking would create communal disturbance in this country and, therefore... (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I want the Minister to reply. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): May I request you to let him speak? (Interruptions)... Joshiji, please carry on. (Interruptions)...

SHRI VIJAY J. DARDA: Sir, I am on a point of order. (Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please let him carry on. (Interruptions)... Please let him carry on. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, my point is that during the last debate I had requested the hon. Minister.. (Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, there is a point of order. (Interruptions)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: .... to give the list of the accused people. (Interruptions)... (Followed by RG/3B)

RG/5.10/3B

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair.)

SHRI VIJAY J. DARDA: Sir, I am on a point of order. Is he going to withdraw his remarks against the minority community? He cannot accuse the minority community like this.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: There is no rule that 'community' cannot be mentioned. Even in the earlier debates that we had on Mumbai blasts and the rail bomb blasts, I had requested the hon. Minister to put on the Table of the House the names of those who have been named as the accused. In the case of list of persons who have been named as the accused in connection with the Mumbai bomb blasts, you will find that these are people belonging to a particular community. Also, if we look at the names of persons who have been declared so far as guilty by the court, their names are also appearing in the Press; everybody knows whom they are. So, everybody knows it. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has concluded. I have to adjourn the House now...(Interruptions) The Minister wants to say something.

DR. FAROOQ ABDULLAH: Sir, I just have one request. A point has been made by the hon. Member. I would like to speak tomorrow so that I can put my viewpoints before the House.

SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: Sir, I want to make a simple submission to the House and to the people outside. It does not help to accuse any community saying that they are the terrorists. Terrorists are terrorists. They may belong to any religion; they may belong to any caste or to any group. Unfortunately, we have information that the people belonging to different religions and different regions are involved. But only some of them, or, a very few of them, are involved in this. So, we should not attack one community. Probably they were trying to do it; Shri Joshi was trying to explain something else. But this matter should not be presented to the House in such a fashion that the division is widened rather than narrowed.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I would like to reply to this.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is enough. There is no question here, and we cannot have any reply now. I fully agree with the sentiments of the hon. Members. We are debating a very important issue of internal security. We are already facing problems, and it is not right, as everybody has said, that we attribute something which would hurt the feelings of each other. So, while participating in the debate, it is better that we make points which would help control the situation rather than inflating the situation.

With these remarks, I would adjourn the House to meet tomorrow at 11 o' clock.

----

The House then adjourned at fifteen minutes

past eleven of the clock, till eleven of the clock

on Tuesday, the 28th November, 2006.

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