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´Öï †Ö×ÜÖ¸üß ²ÖÖŸÖ µÖÆü ÛúÆü®ÖÖ “ÖÖÆæÑüÝÖÖ ×Ûú ‹Ûú counter insurgency and counter terrorism doctrine ²Ö®ÖÖ®ÖÖ ÆüÖêÝÖÖ… “ÖæÑ×Ûú Æü´Ö 1956 ÃÖê ™êü¸ü×¸ü•Í´Ö ÛúÖ ÃÖÖ´Ö®ÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü, ¯ÖÏÖòŒÃÖß ¾ÖÖ¸ü ÛúÖ ÃÖÖ´Ö®ÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü, Æü´Ö®Öê ¯ÖÓ•ÖÖ²Ö ´Öë ÃÖÖ´Ö®ÖÖ ×ÛúµÖÖ, ®ÖÖò£ÖÔ-‡ÔÃ™ü ´Öë ŸÖÖê Æü´Ö ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ¯ÖÆü»Öê ÃÖê ÃÖÖ´Ö®ÖÖ Ûú¸ü ¸üÆêü Æïü, Æü´ÖÖ¸Ö ‹Ûú ®µÖæ×Œ»ÖµÖ¸ü ›üÖò×Œ™Òü®Ö Æîü, Æü´ÖÖ¸üê ¤æüÃÖ¸üê ›üÖò×Œ™ÒÓüÃÖ ³Öß Æïü, »Öê×Ûú®Ö Æü´ÖÖ¸üÖ counter insurgency and counter terrorism doctrine ®ÖÆüà Æîü… Æü´Öë ‡ÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ‹Ûú ›üÖò×Œ™Òü®Ö ¤êü¿Ö Ûêú ÃÖÖ´Ö®Öê ¯Öê¿Ö Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ ÆüÖêÝÖÖ, ¯ÖÖÙ»ÖµÖÖ´Öë™ü ´Öë ˆÃÖ ¯Ö¸ü ÝÖÖî¸ü Ûú¸ü®ÖÖ ÆüÖêÝÖÖ… ¾ÖÆü comprehensive ÆüÖê®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… ¾ÖÆü law and order ÛúÖ ÃÖ¾ÖÖ»Ö ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖê®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹… ¾ÖÆü ‹êÃÖÖ ÆüÖê®ÖÖ “ÖÖ×Æü‹ ×Ûú ¾Öê different groups, •ÖÖê †Ö®Öê ¾ÖÖ»Öê ¾ÖŒŸÖ ´Öë terrorism Ûúê ×¾Ö×Œ™ü´ÃÖ ²Ö®Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖ ×¿ÖÛúÖ¸ü ²Ö®Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü, ×¾Ö×Œ™ü´Ö ÃÖê ´Öê¸üß ´Öã¸üÖ¤ü µÖÆü Æîü ×Ûú terrorists ˆ®Æëü †¯Ö®Öß •ÖÖ»Ö ´Öë ±ÑúÃÖÖ®Öê Ûúß ÛúÖê×¿Ö¿Ö Ûú¸ü ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü, ¾Öê cannon fodder ²Ö®Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛêú Æü×£ÖµÖÖ¸ü ²Ö®Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü †Öî¸ü ‡ÃÖ ¤êü¿Ö ´Öë ‹êÃÖê ²ÖÆãüŸÖ ÃÖê »ÖÖêÝÖ Æïü, •ÖÖê µÖÆü ²Ö®Ö ÃÖÛúŸÖê Æïü, ŸÖÖê ˆÃÖê ÛúÖˆÓ™ü¸ü Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûêú ×»Ö‹ ŒµÖÖ socio-economic strategy Æîü? •ÖÖê alienated ü Æïü, ˆ®ÖÛúÖ alienation ¤æü¸ü Ûú¸ü®Öê Ûúß ŒµÖÖ strategy Æîü? ŒµÖÖë×Ûú ÃÖ¸ü, †ÝÖ¸ü Æü´Ö alienation ¤æü¸ü ®ÖÆüà Ûú¸ëüÝÖê, ÜÖÖÃÖ ŸÖÖî¸ü ¯Ö¸ü minorities Ûêú alienation ÛúÖê, ŸÖÖê Æü´ÖÖ¸üß ‡ÃÖ ²ÖÖŸÖ Ûúê ²ÖÖ¾Ö•Öæ¤ü ×Ûú Æü´Ö ¯Öæ¸üß ŸÖÖÛúŸÖ Ûêú ÃÖÖ£Ö ×Æü®¤ãüÃŸÖÖ®Öß Æïü, †ÖŸÖÓÛú¾ÖÖ¤üß Ûãú”û »ÖÖêÝÖÖë ÛúÖê ±ãúÃÖ»ÖÖ®Öê ´Öë ÛúÖ´ÖµÖÖ²Ö ÆüÖêÓÝÖê †Öî¸ü ˆÃÖÛêú ×»Ö‹ †ÖŸÖÓÛú¾ÖÖ¤üß Æüß ×•Ö´´Öê¤üÖ¸ü ®ÖÆüà ÆüÖêÝÖÖ, Æü´Ö †Öî¸ü Æü´ÖÖ¸üÖ ¤êü¿Ö ³Öß ¯Öæ¸üß ŸÖ¸üÆü ÃÖê ×•Ö´´Öê¤üÖ¸ü ÆüÖêÓÝÖê… †Ö¯ÖÛúÖ ²ÖÆãüŸÖ-²ÖÆãüŸÖ ¿Öã×ÛÎúµÖÖ… ¬Ö®µÖ¾ÖÖ¤ü… (ÃÖ´ÖÖ¯ŸÖ)
SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (
country has witnessed some of the serious incidents of terrorist violence. The recent blasts at
SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (CONTD.): ....to create communal
tension and, thus, to weaken the unity of the country. Who was behind the attack? This attack had been perpetrated by the
enemies of the country with a design to disrupt normal life and create social
tension. And, that is the biggest danger
before us. It was perpetrated by the
enemies of the country. But, how the
Sir, we know that terrorism knows no religion. The States, together with the Central Government, should ensure a coordinated action. This should be seen with utmost seriousness. The Government must take all necessary measures to strengthen internal security of the country and should identify intelligence and security lapses. Proper inquiry and punishment to the guilty should be ensured. All important places should be guarded and protected suitably.
One point has
been raised here. Some say that this is
taking place due to the appeasement of the minority. During the NDA rule,
Sir, I would
like to refer to one speech of Shri Kalyan Singh. In
(Contd. by 2o VP)
CHATTERJEE (CONTD.): And, in
Sir, what is civilization if the majority
community cannot protect the lives of the minorities? Sir, we are discussing the internal security
situation. Recently, a Computer Analyst
was arrested. And the Head of the
National Security Coordination Cell has revealed how a spy ring, linked to a
U.S. Diplomat, was operating. In
Now, Sir, the Afzal's death sentence has been deferred. It was a serious incident. Our Jawans sacrificed their lives to protect this building, and this institution; a great democracy. Now, Sir, the Supreme Court has given a judgement, and the mercy petition has been submitted before the President. We all know this, and it has been referred to by some of us here, that 22 mercy petitions are pending. The oldest case is that of 1997. Even the Rajiv Gandhi's murder case is pending. The Tamil Nadu Government, as we came to know, sent a petition on 4th May 2000 to the Government. It was kept pending there. Only in 2005 the Home Ministry sent it to the President. Since the last 4-5 years, it has been pending. Submitting such petitions to the President is the law of the land. It is a judicial provision. The BJP has not objected to any of the petitions; none has been touched. We know, Sir. Then, why is there this particular case? It is in order to communalise the situation. And, they want to take advantage of the U.P. elections. Our position is that the law of the land should prevail. With these few words, I want to conclude. There is another speaker from my party; he will speak. I conclude my speech. Thank you, Sir. (ends)
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Mangani Lal Mandal. Shri C. Ramachandraiah. You might be aware of the time allotted to your party. You should speak within that time. ...(Interruptions)... You know the time. ...(Interruptions)...I am just reminding you. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, this issue has been discussed umpteen times. It is being discussed continuously because of the deterioration in the internal security situation of this country. The Home Minister has submitted a book containing the details. It is a very beautiful book, but the real situation is ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: I hope you have read it. ...(Interruptions)...
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: But the real situation is not that beautiful when we see the book. Sir, irrespective of the party in power...(Interruptions)... Yes; yes, so that we should not have time to go through that. Irrespective of the party in power, the situation has not improved. (Continued by PK/2P)
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH (CONTD.): I am not blaming a particular Government. It may be naxalism, insurgency in North-East, or, more terrorist activities because of cross-border terrorism. So, it is rather frightening to hear that more than one-third of the country is afflicted with internal disturbance. This is a report that I read in a newspaper...(Interruptions).. Sir, I cannot quote, but I had read in a newspaper.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: You please rely upon it. I am sending it and giving it to you.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: I am unable to authenticate, but what I am saying is subject to correction also. But I read that it was the Home Ministry Report, and 165 districts and 14 States are afflicted with Maoist activities.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: It is not correct.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: I wish it should not be true.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: I have given you in writing which is authenticated. You shall have to rely upon it. I am making a statement on the floor of the House that if it is wrong, I am subject to the direction of the House and the Presiding Officer. You are relying upon something which....(Interruptions)...
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: Sir, I will, definitely, rely upon you...(Interruptions).. Sir this was circulated only today...(Interruptions)...
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: You sign it and give it; we will rely upon you...(Interruptions)...
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: Sir, you being the Minister, you will have access to the information; whereas, we don't have that facility. So, we have to reply upon the information whatever appears in the newspapers. I am handicapped.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: May I say that whatever appears in the newspapers cannot be brought to the House unless and until you go into it and authenticate that what has appeared in the newspaper is correct. This is the rule.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: Sir, should I ask the editor of a newspaper to authenticate it first, so that I can present it here?
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: Not the editor, you have to do it.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: But, you can, at least, accept that you have pressed the panic button.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: This is not correct.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: No, at least, you can accept that you have pressed the panic button of the internal situation in the country.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: Not at all.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: And, you said, Sir, that vital installations were going to be the targets.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: No; again, I am going to say that I have not made that statement. That statement is incorrect, and I don't know how it appeared in the newspapers...(Interruptions)..
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: Sir, for everything, contradiction is coming...(Interruptions)..
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: No, no; what can I do?..(Interruptions)...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ramachandraiah, when the Home Minister is saying categorically, you should accept....(Interruptions)...
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: No, no, Sir, I am accepting his statement. But we have our limitations. That is what I
am saying. How do I get the
information? Should I sit on the chair of Home
Secretary and take the files?...(Interruptions)..I read in the newspapers that
nuclear installations were going to be targeted, vital installations were going to be
targeted. If it is a
contradictory news, how can I know?
Should I sit on the chair of Home Secretary and summon the files, so
that I can get the authentic information?
That is the only source of information I am getting. And, in spite of
the Right to Information Act, I am unable to get information from the concerned
Departments ...(Interruptions).. This has created jitters. Honestly, Sir, this has created jitters. But what exactly are the plans of the
Government to avert it? Because in spite of so many refusals, every day, a number of
incidents are happening. I am not
blaming a particular Government, or, a particular Minister. This is happening. What is true is happening. Why didn't it
happen in the
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH (CONTD.): Whom do we believe? Where is the clarity? The Indians are totally in darkness, as far
as the terrorist activities, terrorism and internal security situation is
concerned. And, we do not know whom we
should believe or whom we should not believe.
The Ministry of Home Affairs says one thing, and the Security Adviser
says another thing. The IB Chief advises one thing, and immediately the hon. Prime Minister will
refute that thing. It was said,
"The existing laws are not sufficient to deal with the special
crimes." That was the sum and
substance of Mr. Narshiman's opinion. So, he wants special laws. More stringent provisions have to be
incorporated. But immediately the Prime
Minister said that there is no necessity of it.
Why? Now, if the existing laws are so stringent, so punitive, why the
crime rate has not been reduced, why the situation has not been improved? Who are responsible for this? It is not a question of present Government or
past Government. I am not blaming a
particular Government. Who is
responsible for it? And what is the role of the Government in containing these
terrorist activities in this country? We
have been continuously blaming one community or the other. Where is the end of it? Have you ever enquired why the people of a
particular community are going and being trained in other countries and coming
back and going to the extent of damaging their own nation? There is a reason for it. There is a reason for everything. We have to
enquire it, as the
Sir, take the case of
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH (CONTD.): Their officers are being trained on our side. Why, Sir?
Is it to kill the Tamilians there? What is the
Foreign Policy that you are adopting? There is no rational thinking or rational
policy. And you make claims that it is
in the interests of the nation! It is not at all so. You can achieve eight per
cent growth rate, but it can never be an inclusive growth as long as this
internal problem exists; it can never be inclusive. And, we have been totally
depending on the
Who is responsible for the rise of Taliban, Sir? Who had
strengthened Saddam Hussein in the earlier stages to contain Islamic leaders in
I think the
Sir, irrespective of the so many economic losses of this country, even today we are unable to control the flow of funds to terrorist organisations in this country. Hawala functions even more efficiently than the established banks. Hawala system in this country is functioning even in the remotest parts of the country and the credibility of the Hawala system is so perfect that a bank may refuse to honour its cheques but Hawala will not. That is the network we have developed. What has the Government been doing? Have we ever tried to demolish this system? Money-laundering is there and country-to-country financing is there. Country-to-terrorist financing is there. Transfer of funds from one terrorist organisation to the other is there. There are umpteen number of ways and methods through which funds are being flown. This channel has to be demolished. Unless this is demolished, it is very difficult to control.
Then, Sir, of course, it is a State subject. State Governments don't have that type of machinery, that type of resources, to control this type of terrorism in the country. The country requires federal laws. There are umpteen number of reports. Even the Vohra Committee Report -- I read part of that report... (Time-bell) Sir, I shall take a few minutes more.
Federal laws need to be there. It is very unfortunate that the hon. Prime Minister has refused to accept the recommendations made by Narasimhan, with all his experience. I think Narasimhan is one of the finest officers of this country who, with all his experience, has made these suggestions. When existing laws are insufficient to combat this menace, what is wrong with having a special law? You have diluted POTA. I have no objections to that as long as you control terrorist organisations. You have diluted so many laws. It has been proven time and again that the existing laws have been inadequate. Parliament is quite willing to confer the powers on you to contain this menace. We shall support you. Please come forward with a Bill. (interruptions)
Then Sir, this is with regard to the disposal of cases. It
is very unfortunate that these
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH (CONTD.): Now, you have come out
with a new mechanism, that is, India-Pakistan Anti-terrorism Institutional
Mechanism. I don't know the modalities
of the mechanism but I am an optimist by conviction and pessimist by
experience. I don't know to what extent
this will be effectively dealt with. It
is like asking Dawood Ibrahim
to enquire about the
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: We are giving it to the State Government.
SHRI C. RAMACHANDRAIAH: Coast guards are there and their area of jurisdiction is 200 nautical miles or so, and civil police is also there. I don't think that there is necessity to create coast guard police also. Kindly think it over. Creation of more organisations is not going to serve the purpose. Strengthening of the existing organisations will serve the purpose. Sir, lastly, we have been blaming a particular community. Let us think it over. Why are these things happening? Do some research; there is no use of blaming anybody. Try to introduce some reforms. Try to find out the deficiencies that a particular community is facing and solve them so that they will be totally integrated in the mainstream of life. Thank you. (Ends)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI (
(THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI) in the Chair.)
Therefore, this is not the first time that the House is debating on this important issue. This issue was discussed, to a certain extent, in the last Session also and this debate is important only because here the accused people are terrorists who always try to kill the innocent people.
(Contd. by 2t/KSK)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD): And, this debate might
go on for hours together. The question
before me is whether this debate is going to be useful or is going to be a
usual debate without results. I, for
one, personally feel that the facts are known to everybody. Remedies are to be suggested, and as one of
the earlier speakers has mentioned here, we must be all united and honest in
our approach to find out a solution to the problem. Sir, the present situation, as we find it,
and while initiating the debate, as Mr. Arun Jaitley has rightly said that Jammu and Kashmir, North-East
areas and from the point of view of naxalite problem,
many parts of the country are the places where internal security is a serious
problem. The Pakistan-sponsored
terrorism has claimed the lives of 29,151 people. These were the civilians whose lives were
claimed. About 5,101 security personnel
also lost their lives. This has caused
4,730 explosions and rendered about 2,78,601 people
homeless. I am mentioning these figures
only because we must understand the seriousness of the problem. Sir, the loss to private and public
properties is about Rs.3,000 crores. So, it seems that throughout the country, so
far, the Governments have to deal with -- whether the local Governments or the
Central Government -- three problems which were always mentioned. One was the problem of drinking water; the
other was the problem of food; and, third problem was the education. Some more problems were also there like
health, etc. Now, I think the country
may have to add one more problem, that is, safety of life. In this House, we may say anything, but it is
true that particularly in metros, the people are scared that their lives will
be in danger at any point of time. I am
not talking about the remote areas, but the places which are active and where
people are always worried whether they would see tomorrow or not. It is only because of the incidents that
have taken place so far, particularly in places like Mumbai and
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD.): One of the actions,
which we have taken in
But is the Government seriously considering that after banning
these organisations also, the activities of terrorists have not stopped. In order to stop such activities, in order to
see that the
Sir, according to my information, one-third of the country is affected by some kind of internal disturbance. The question is whether we have been able to stop this, whether after this debate, something will come out. Sir, it is said that 165 Districts in 14 States are affected by Maoists activities. Sir, I do not want to go into the figures. The question before us very simple. Before this, I would like to refer to a question which our hon. Member, Shri Arun Shourie asked through Indian Express on 1st August, 2006. He asked four questions, which give a reply in themselves. The four questions, which were asked by him are:
a Do the people of the area look to the police for protection from the Naxalites, or are they now conducting themselves in such a way that the Naxalites would spare them?
b Have the contractors of the area to pay Naxalites a cut for the works they execute - say, on construction involved in 'development projects'?
c Who is dispensing 'justice' in the area? The regular courts, or the Naxalites' mobile courts?
d Are the government officials themselves not paying protection money to the Naxalites?
Sir, this situation is absolutely an honest picture as to what is happening in naxalite areas. And, therefore, if the police are made to pay the protection money, then what else remains. (Contd. by 2w-sk)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD.): And, how those police, who are hand in hand with the Naxalites, would be able to cure the menace of Naxalites in the State. Therefore, if this is to be stopped, right governance is required. According to me, the Naxalites are spreading all over the country only because, in Arunji's words, the third class Government cannot give a first class response to terrorism. He says this because the Government has to be alert, the Government has to be determined and the Government has to take prompt and immediate action. Then only, the problem of Naxalite can be solved. Sir, there are two schools of thoughts. One school of thought comes from Lage Rahey Munna Bhai. I think, most of the hon. Members must have seen this picture. Therefore, they have always a sympathetic attitude towards the criminals and they feel, this school of thought feels that we should not punish the culprits; we should try to be sympathetic with them as much as possible. And, another school of thought is of those who have got a firm opinion that the exemplary punishment to the terrorist is the only way out. The general public in the country is supporting the second school of thought. Sir, let me tell the Government in the House that the delay in hanging of Mohammad Afzal Guru has also upset the minds of the people of our country. I am sure that the country feels that Afzal should be hanged at once. It is not that the procedure should not be followed. But, at the same time, my question to the hon. Minister is: Why is the Government not expressing its opinion on the issue? When there is a lot of debate in the newspapers, when there is a lot of discussion, at least, I have not been able to read from the Government's official statement that he should not be pardoned and the President should not take the issue lightly. People wanted that the Government should strictly stand up and say that Afzal Guru should not be pardoned under any circumstances. But, Sir, the Government has not expressed its opinion at all. This Government, or, for that purpose, any Government, or, any popular Government has to express its stand on the issue. And, this Government is not prepared to do it. Today, I would like to hear from the Hon. Minister what is the stand of the Government.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: The stand of the Government has to be Constitutionally correct.
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I could not follow exactly what the Hon. Minister has said.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: What is required by law would be done.
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, it is not necessary that the Government has to express its opinion on the issue. When there are reactions from the people, the Government can always say that this is the view of the Government.
SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: Under the Constitution the matter has to be decided by one authority. Any other authority should not take the responsibility of doing that.
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I still personally feel that the Government cannot wait on such issues if the Government wants to avoid certain things. The communal tension unnecessarily increase because of this approach. And, some people have also thought that it is nothing but the appeasement of a particular community, for which the Government does not want to make its opinion clear on the issue. And, I personally feel that on such issues, the Government has to express its opinion even when the issue is raised in the House. The Government's desire on the issue has to come before the people. Sir, not only this, it was so simple that nothing should have been said on this. People should have said only that 'wait, let us see what His Excellency, the President, does in the matter'. (Contd. by ysr-2x)
MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD.): Lots of people expressed their opinion,
including the political leaders. The
Kashmir Bar Association and Hurriyat Conference have
said that this is a part of conspiracy against the people of
SHRI R.K. DHAWAN: Will you yield for a minute?
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Are you yielding?
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Yes.
SHRI R.K. DHAWAN: You have been Chief Minister and I am mystified by your contention that nobody should say that he should be excused or he should be hanged. Normally, I do not interrupt a Member, but I was mystified by your statement. It is the legal right of the person, who is convicted, to apply for a mercy. When a mercy appeal is filed, it has to be examined and on whatever decision the Government reaches, it has to be conveyed to the competent authority, that is, the President of India. So, when you say that the mercy petition should not be examined, I would like to remind you that when Mr. Bhutto was being hanged, the Congress Party and other parties also appealed to the world the he should not be hanged. So, you cannot say that nobody has a right to say that he should be excused and he should not be hanged and all that. It will be ultimately the decision of the Government. How do you expect the Government to express the decision before the decision has been taken and before it has gone to the competent authority? I am amazed by it. You have been Chief Minister, there must have been cases, and such words coming from you have really mystified me. Thank you. (Followed by VKK/2Y)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, unfortunately, the hon. Member has not understood me properly. I said, the Government should have expressed its opinion only because there were a number of opinions expressed by other people. (Interruptions)
SHRI R.K. DHAWAN: That doesn't matter. You cannot deny the right to a convict.
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: The Government also is responsible. The Government is a popular Government; they have to express the opinion. People have a doubt in their minds that the Government does not want him to be hanged. (Interruptions)
SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Mr. Narayanasamy, please, let him continue. (Interruptions) He is not yielding. Please, let him continue. Nothing else is going on record. (Interruptions)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: If somebody comes and threatens the Government that there will be dire consequences and it keeps quiet, that is objectionable.
ÁÖß ¸üÖ•Öß¾Ö ¿ÖãŒ»Ö : *
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Nothing else will go on record except Mr. Joshi's speech. (Interruptions) Please carry on. (Interruptions)
SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *
* Not recorded.
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, people feel that this Government does not want to hang him. They want to find a way out; they want to threaten the Government; they want to threaten everybody; and the Government prepares to be silent on this issue, it's for them. Sir, the Congress Party also did not express its opinion. I don't know what is the reason. (Interruptions) What is the opinion of the Congress Party, would you be able to tell me Mr. Narayanasamy? Give me the opinion. Just now, give me the opinion. (Interruptions) What is the opinion of the Congress Party?
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Manohar Joshiji, whenever they will get a chance, they will react. You kindly address the Chair. (Interruptions)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Mr. Narayanasamy, you can stand up and tell me just now. (Interruptions)
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Narayanasamy, you will have a chance to speak. You can clarify if you want to, at that point of time. (Interruptions) Please carry on. (Interruptions)
SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, the family of Kamlesh Kumari who was martyred in the Parliament attack has threatened to return the Ashoka Chakra awarded to her family. If really something happens and if they returned the Ashok Chakra, I am sure, that will be a shame on our part. The families of five Delhi Policemen who died in the Parliament attack said, they would return the Kirti Chakra if any concession is given to Afzal. These are the people who saved our lives; these are the people who saved this supreme body of the country. It is really surprising that some people come and say that don't punish them, don't take action against them. And, therefore, it is out of mere frustration, I say, that this is the country where such type of people can stand and speak. (Interruptions)
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SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: No, I am not yielding. I am not yielding to you.
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): He is not yielding. (Interruptions)
ÁÖß ×¾Ö•ÖµÖ Ûãú´ÖÖ¸ü ºþ¯ÖÖÞÖß : †Ö¯Ö ÛúÖ ÃÖ´ÖµÖ †Ö‹ ŸÖ²Ö ²ÖÖê×»Ö‹… (Interruptions)
ÁÖß ´Ö®ÖÖêÆü¸ü •ÖÖê¿Öß : †Ö¯Ö ÛúÖê ´ÖÖîÛúÖ ×´Ö»ÖêÝÖÖ, ˆÃÖ ÃÖ´ÖµÖ ²ÖÖê×»Ö‹ÝÖÖ… Sir, these disturbances in different parts of the country are also because of the policies of the Government. The Government policies upset the people and sometimes such things occur because the Government does not expressly say anything on issues on which the Government is required to speak. Sir, how can this situation be improved? Firstly, the police has to be effective and it has to be given authority to deal with the domestic terrorism. In the recent Mumbai blast, the Prime Minister himself had informed the State. He had informed the hon. Chief Minister and the police that such things might happen and this is very unfortunate that even though the information was received in advance, the Police Department did not act. The hon. Prime Minister came to Mumbai and he himself made a statement that he had expressed this fear, but nothing was done. (Contd. by MKS/2z)