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VK/2Y/3.00

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (MAHARASHTRA): Sir, I will try to conclude in five minutes. Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, there has been an across the party agreement that the child marriage is a very horrid custom and needs to be done away with. There is also a general agreement that the legislation that was passed 77 years back, has not proved useful and that something needs to be done in order to strengthen the arms of the law and make the law more effective. Sir, the fact remains that only very few laws, which are intended to bring about social reforms, have succeeded. Prohibition did not succeed; the anti-dowry law did not succeed. There are very few laws which have succeeded at all. The reason is...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): They were not implemented. The anti-dowry law was not implemented, that is why it has not succeeded.

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: Not only that they could not be implemented but also they were against some realities of the society.

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: What about anti-rape laws?

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: They are taking place.

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Do you want to do away with them?

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI: What I am saying is that, actually they result in greater corruption in the administration. Before prohibition, the Bombay police was one of the best outfits. But today it is one of the most corrupt. Similarly, the anti-dowry legislation has given rise to a lot of corruption. So before we try to legislate a law, we should take into account some of the bad effects that can happen when you try to legislate laws. What I would say is, it is necessary to understand why the customs have happened. I am not averse to some kind of legislation, the kind of legislations that we have seen particularly in the last two years. Though passed with the best of intents, they are becoming very disastrous in consequences. One example is, we passed a law giving women co-parcenary right in the property, with the result that that girl now gets, after her marriage, a share in the ancestral property as also the self-earned property of the father. The Supreme Court has now ruled that that property which the girl earns becomes Stridhan and after her death, it has to go back to her parents house, to the children of her brother. This kind of gaffe could have happened only because nobody thought properly about it. Now the women are asking, "What is the point in quarrelling with the brother or with the father if the money has ultimately to go back to the parent's house?" Similarly, Sir, even in the case of the Domestic Violence Bill, a number of cases are now coming forward where the husband is being accused and put in jail because he criticised a friend that the wife had brought home. I think just good intentions don't give good legislations. What is necessary is, a very close study of the woman's real problems. We have carried out a study. I represent one of the largest rural women organisations, which has done substantial work. Recently, we carried out some study on the subject. We tried to find out why child marriages are taking place. The reason given by the rural women was that the father tries to get his daughter married. In Maharashtra, at least, girls are not married before the age of 16. The farmers, at least, maybe, in their ignorance, think that the age of 18 has no particular sanctity except in the law of contract. They think that, at least, in the rural areas where there is a lot of sunshine, the women mature early and they, for practical reasons, think that if the girl has attained the age of 16, if they have good crops and good income and if they come across a good boy, then it is much better to get her married, rather than waiting for the formalities of the 18 years to be completed. One more reason is that even in the old days, as Shri Kalraj Mishra was mentioning, when the foreign invasion took place--and now when we have the rule of the mafias and the goondas--the parents thought that virgin daughter, an unmarried daughter at home was a risk because there was a misconceived notion that the virgins were some sort of anecdote against some of the diseases. That is the reason there was a price put on virgin. Even today most of the parents are unhappy particularly when the daughters have to go to the school. In every village there is a liquor shop and you have a lot of goondas gathering there. They are worried about the safety of their children. What is important is, if the Government fulfils its first duty of ensuring law and order, rather than pass more legislations, it would be easier to have a ban on child marriages. (Contd. by 2Z)

RG/PSV/2z/3.05/

SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (contd.): I would also say that the kind of Protection Officers and Prevention Officers that have been appointed could have a disastrous effect. When you give an officer certain powers, the power brings in corruption. We have seen a few NGOs trying to blackmail parents in case of mistreatment of their daughters-in-law, and that kind of a thing is likely to happen. Now, what do we do if the children, who have been married, are below the age of 18 years? Something has to be done about it. I don't think even the Finance Minister can create a fund which will really help them. What is required to be done, as one of my colleagues in the Women's movement said, you cannot put them in ashrams because ashrams are the unsafest places for women. Therefore, you cannot put them in some sort of a place where you can't expect them to be protected. What is important is, -- I think, Dr. Prabha Thakur has made a very constructive suggestion -- you should have said that if at all this kind of a marriage happens, where either party is minor, then, it should be treated as a solemnisation of only an engagement, and nothing should be allowed to happen till the marriage satisfies the legal position. All this bureaucratic approach, all this trying to prevent things and trying to punish people for creating an offence, will result in nothing. A law failed 77 years back, and that law had a certain chance to be passed. This law has no chance to be implemented at all.

(Ends)

ㇵ (֬ Ϥ) : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֻ ׾־ ִ֮ ׾֬ 2006 ß ֵ , ִ֣Ԯ ֣ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֻ ׾־ ִ֮ ׾ָ֓ ן ד֮ ֌ , ׻֋ - ֬և ֮־֤ ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ֻ ׾־ ִ֮ ָ ׾ָ֓ ֌ , ׻֋ ׾ָ֓ ָ ָ х ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֟ , ֮֟

, ™ߵ ֵ ֜ ָ ֻ ֵ ֮ ׾ֿ ָ ֻ ׾־ ִ֮ ϳ־ ָ ׳ֵ֮ ֵֻ օ ִ ׾ֿ ָ ׬ ֡ פ , -֕ã֮, ֬ Ϥ, ֜, ָ Ϥ, ָӛ ײָ ֕ ֮ ׳ֵ֮ ֵֻ օ ֣ ֮ ֻ ׾־ ׻֋ ֮ ־և ֮ ־և ִ֬ ָ ִ֮ ֣ ֋ ֮ ׮ֵ , ß־ ֛ ָ ֻ ׾־ ֤ ֛ ֣ ãןֵ , ׿ ãן ߅ ָ ֬ Ϥ וֻ ߅ ֕֜ , ֓ ֮ ֻ ׾־ ׻֋ ָ ֮ ־և ߅ ָ߲ ׸ָ ־ֻ ֯ ֮ ֓ ֤ ֮֓֯ ֟ ׸ ֕ ָ ֮ ֤֕ ׻֋ ֟ ָ ׸ָ ֓ , -ֻ ? ֮ ֮ ֓ -ֻ ׻֋ ֮ 12 ֻ ֛ ָ פօ ֣ ? ֣ ָֻ֟ ֵ, ִֻ ָ ֮ ָև ԅ ֯ ֟և ֮ דֵ ? -ָ ֛ , ֮֓֯ ׾֬־ ֟ , ֓ ֣ ֻ ֻ ָ - ׮ֵ ָ ִ֮ ևՅ ֵ ָ ָָ ֮ 1995-96 ׸, ֱ׸ և ֮ 2004-2005 ֮ -ָ ֱ׸ ֣ ׾ֿ ָ ׮ ֋, ִ ܵ ׸ָ ָ߲ ֲ ֛ ãן , ֛ ׾־ ׻֋ ֬ ֮ ֛ ֟ ֣ ֟ ו֮֟ ֻ ֛ ֤ ֋, ֮ ֻ ָ ׮ ֋

ָ ֟ - ָָօ ֕ã֮, ֬ Ϥ פ ו֮֟ ֕ , ֤ ֛ ֛ , ִ֕ ָ ֮֟, ׻֋ ֻ ֤ (3/000 ָ ֿ:)

aka-ks/3a/3:10

ㇵ (֟) : ִ ׾־ ִ֬ ֤ ֟ , ִ ٣ , ָ ֓ ׮ָ ֋ ָ ߕ ֮ ״ֻ ֻ, ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮, ִֵ ™ߵ ֵ ֮ ׸ , ִ ܵ ֮ פ ֻ ׾־ ׬׮ִֵ ӿ֮ ׬ ֵ֮ ֋ ֣ ִ ־ã ׬ ׬ ꅠ ֻ ׾־ , ִ֯ ֋ ֻ ׾־ ָ֯׬ ֵ ֮ ֋ ֻ ׾־ ֣ ֮ ֻ ֣ ׌ ׾־ ã֟ , כ ֋ ֣ ֵֿ ָ֮ ֮-ָ ִ֕ և ֋ ֻ ׾־ ֮ ߵ ָ֬

֟ ִ֮ և ֻ ׾־ ׬׮ִֵ, 1929 ֮ , ָ ִ , ָ֮ ֮ ֻ֮ ֻ ׻ , ָ֮ ֺ ֮ ֮ , ָ ֵ֮֮ ױ ֲֻ֟ օ ָ ֯ ׾ֿ ֮ ֺ ֮ ֮ ֤ ֕ ֆ ãן , ֕ ֮ , ָ׸ ָ׮ֵ ֻ ׾־ ֮ ֮֮ ֤ ãן ׸֟Ԯ

֟ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ™ߵ ֮־׬ָ ֵ ׸ 2001-2002 ֌ ֵ , וִ ֮־ ׬ָ ֵ 1929 ֻ ׾־ ׬׮ִֵ ӑ֮ ֻ և ֣ ֵ ָ֯׬ ֮ ֋ ֻ ׾־ ӿ׬֟ ֵ , וִ ™ߵ ֵ ֣ ™ߵ ֮־ ׬ָ ֵ ßן ״׻֟ ֕ ֵ ֮ 2004 ֻ֓ Ϥ, ִ, , ֻ֓ Ϥ, ִ ߸, ԙ, , ׌, ״ֻ֛֮, ׿ִ ֻ ֕ ָָ ָ օ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮֮ ֟Դ֮ ׾֬ ß ֵ , ִ ֕ ן ֯ և ?

ֳ֬ , ֳ ֮֟ ֮ ֳ 76 , ֕ ֻ ׾־ ָ և ֕ ײ֮ - ן ָ ֳ , , ִֻ֮ , , և , ϓ׻֟ ׻֋ ָָ ֮ ֵ֮֮ ֲ ܟ ֋, ֲ ֮ ֮֮ ֳ ï™ ֋ ֮ וֻ ßָ ֮ ׻֋ ֕ ָָ ָָ ָֿ߮ ֲֻ ֋߅ ֣ ־֮֬ פ ֿ֟ ֻ ׾־ ׻֋ Ӳ׬֟ ׬ָ כ ֋օ

ֳ֬ , ֯ ִ֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮ ûִ ִֵ ֆ ׮ ֻ ׾־ ִֻ ִ֕ ֣ ֣ ִ֕ ן ֋ ׻֋ ֮ ֳ ָ ִ֮ ֋, ֻ ׾־ ֳ ׻֋ ϳ׾֟ ָָ ׮׿֟ ֮ ֳ ָ ִ֮

, ӟ ֯ ֟ '׮' ֆ þã ãן ָ ן־ ß , וִ ָ ֆ ãן ׸ ؓ֟ ֌ ֟韾 韵 ֤ , ׬ִ ßָ ָ ײָ, ֻ֓ Ϥ, ֜ ֣ ֕ã֮ פ ֕ ׸ ָ ֆ ϣִ ־ 19 , ֣ ׸ ָ ֕ 45 ןֿ֟ ֛ 18 ֵ ׾־ ׻֋ ֲ֕ ֟ ׾ ו֮֟ ֆ ־ ִֵ , ִ 1/4 ָ , ֮ؓ֟֕ ãן ׾֬ ֵ֮֮ ֵ ָ ׬ ׾ָ֓ օ

ֳ֬ , ֮֯ ֯ ײֻ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ִֵ פ, ׻֋ ֯ ֮־֤ (ִ֯) ('3b/sch' ָ )

SCH/3.15/3B

֮ ֮ ̴֕ (֬ Ϥ): ֤--ָօ ָ ָ ֕߸ և ׸ ײֻ 2004 ֈ և ָ ָ ףֵ ֮֟ ָ ֱ߻ - ™ ֳ ״ֻ- ֵ ϣ ֟ ֋ ֮֟ , ִ֕ ֵ֓ ֋

ָ, ֲ׻ ֓ ֤ ֟ ָ, ֤֮֮ ָ ָ ֮֟ , ֮֟ ֱ ̸֕ ָ ֟ ֱ ֮ ֲ ֻ ֮ ֮֮ ָ ָ ָ ֮ ֮ ִ , ײֻ ßֻ ֵ , ײֻ ֻ ֵ ִ ָߴ ײֻ ֻ ֮֮ ׿ֿ ָ

ָߕ ָ ֟

ָ ֜ ֵ ߠ

֮ ֤ פ י ֟, ױ ָ ָ ׮֟ ֵ ָ ֮ؓ֟-֮֮ ֟ ֕ ו ׸ãן ײֻ ֵ , ֮ؓ֟ ֮֮ ״ֻ

֓ ָ ֤ ֮֟ ֤ ֲԤ ֤ ֕ ֲԤ ֮ ״ֻ ֤ ׻ ו̴׸ , ֤֮֮ ו̴ָ , ֟ וʹָ , ֻ-֓ וִָ , ִ֕ ו̴ָ , ו̴ָ , ִ֟ ֤ ֮ ֻ ׻֋ ֤ ׮Ե ֌ ֲ ֟ ֮ ֻ֟ ׻֋ ֲ ָ ן ֮ ֟ , ן ֮֟ ן ֮֟ ָ פ ׸ ָ ן ֮ , ָ ן ֻ ֮ , ׻ ״ֻ

ָ, פ և, ֤ - ߛ֋ , ִ֟ ֤ ִ֕ ֵ֤ ֮ ׻֋ ߲֟ ӛָ ֮ , ׻֋ ֮ ߲֟ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ו֮֟ ֤ כ , ֱև ָ ו֮֟ ןֵָ֟ , ָ ׻֋ ֮ ֟ և , ֻ ָ ִ֕ ׯ֮֔ ׿ָ ֵ֮ ָ דֵ , ֮֟ ִ ֟ և ֤֟ ׸ ֟ ׻ֵ ֟ ֻ ֌ͻ ֌ͻ 녠 ָ ֌ ֕ Ù , և , ֜-׻ וֻ֟ ָָ ָ ִ֮ ֟ , וֻ֟ פ ߔ ־Ӥ ׮ֵ֤ ָ, ֟ ׮ֵ֤ ָ, ׾ֻև֮ ׮ֵ֤ ָ ָ ָ ֮ ״ֻ ߅

ִ- , ֮ ףֵ ָ ֱ ־ ӡ ֮ ״ִ֮ ֤ ֟ , ֮ ִ֮ ֮ ִ֮, ׮ֵ֟ ̺ ־ֿ ֮ ִ֟ , ֮ ָ ֟ ָ֮ ײ֮ ָ֮ ֳ ִ ֟ , -֮ ֮ ״ֵ֟ ִ֮, ֮ ֮, ֮ ֳֵ֤ ײ֟ , ־ֿ , ֺ , ױ ӓֵ֟ ִ֬ ,  ִ֬ , ֕߆ ִ֬ , ־֮Դ ָ ׾ֳ ִ֬ , ֟ ־ִ ֮ և ֟ כ , ָֻ֟ ִֻ ֮֯ ֮ כ ? ױ (ִֵ ә) ָ, ,

ָ ִ þָ֕ , ָֻ֟ ֻֻ ֮ Ԯֻ ֵ ֈ , ֛ ָֻ֟ ֻֻ ֮ Ԯֻ ֵ ֕ ֮ ֮߮ ָ ֕֋ ִ֮ ֋ ִ֕ ™ָ֓ ֱ֮ ܾ֟ ָ ִ ֮ ׿ֿ օ ָ ֕֋ ֟ , ׸֟ ֵ ׸֟ ֵ, ߻ ֙ ׻ֵ ֵ, ֕ ֙ ׻ֵ ֵ, ֻ֟ ֮ ׻ֵ ֵ,  ֮ ֙ ׻ֵ ֵ ָ ׸ ֲִֵ ֟ 3C/MCM ָ ָ

-TDB-SSS-MCM/3.20/3C

֮ 㻻 ֮ ̴֕ (֟) : ܿ פ ֟ ִ֟ ו֮֟ ֮ ֮ ָ ֮ ֮֮ ֵ , ֵ օ ׻֋ ׸ ִ ֲ ֤ ָ֮֕ ־ֿ ֺ ֲ ֤ ֟ ָ ֵ֟ ֋ 00 ִ֬ ֵ֟ ֋, כ ִ֬ ֵ֟ ֋, ֲָ ֕߮ ִ֬ ֵ֟ ֋, ו֮֟ ֤ ֮׸ Ӥ ִ֟ ָ ֮ ֮ ֤ ֱ ׌ֻֿ օ ֣ ֻ ֟ ֱ -֯ ״֟ , ӓֵ֟ , Ӿ ָ , ִ ָ ֻ ֕ ״ֻ֮ ֯ ָ ֲ ֯ ֲ ֯ ֲִֵ ״ֻ߅ ײֻ , ׿ֿ ֱ , ׻ ִ ֮֯ ֌ פ, - օ (ִ֯)

ֻ (֜) : - ֮־֤ ֳ֬ օ ׻֋ ֛ ׿ ִ֮ י և ֮ ִ֕ ד֟ ֮ ׻֋ ֵ ֵ -ָ ׾ֿ ֨ Ӭ߾֤ ׾ָ֓, , ׯ֔ ָ ֻ ֋......(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIEN): No, no, you are not allowed. You can only say one sentence about this Bill. Nothing else.

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS: Sir, I will take a minute.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You are saying something else. That is not allowed. No, no, I thought you wanted to speak on this Bill and you said you wanted to say one sentence in one minute. I can allow that if you are speaking on this Bill. Nothing else I can allow. If you are speaking on this Bill I am ready to allow you because this is a very important Bill. I thought when you requested you should be allowed. No other subject...

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS: I have sought your permission to speak on a comment...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: If you speak about this Bill you can speak. Otherwise, I will not allow.

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS: All I am saying is, it is not correct to say that the education level in this country was very bad prior to coming of our English people.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, okay that is all.

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS: Before the English people came here, the level of English of education was very high. This is what I am saying.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: That is enough. You can correct that later also. Shrimati Renukaji.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: First of all, through you, I would like to thank all the hon. Members for having participated in discussion of this Bill. More important for the valuable suggestions that they have contributed and for sitting through this and listening avidly to each other because it is always a learning experience. We share by the wealth of knowledge that we all have and the different experiences that we all see. Also, Sir, I would be failing in my duty if I did not place on record our deep appreciation for the Parliamentary Standing Committee which put hours of work and guided us to help establish a Bill like this. ֲ ֟ Ɠ֮֮ߠ ֱ ֮ ֱ , ֮ ֮ ׌ Ӥ ֟ ֮ כ ׻֋ ֟ , ֮ ֮֮ ϵ ֮֟ ־ֵ פ פ֋ ִ ֋, ֲ ֲ ֻ֟ ִֵ ֣-֣ ֤֟ ׸ãןֵ ֟ - ־ ֣ , ִ֮ ָ ꌙ օ ֕ פ ֮ ֻ ֤ ֟ ֻ ־֙ , Ù , ׻֋ ׻֋ ֲ֕ ֮֮ ׻֋, ֕ פ ׸߻ ָ ֟ So, let us not be pessimistic about bringing in a law and saying this will not work. ֮ ֻ ֲ , ִ֕ , ָ וִָ ֮֟ Ӥ ָ ײ ׸ϕי ִֻ ֮ and with all our strength and I know that I will always have the support of all of you in this issue. (3D ָ ֿ:)

SSS-USY/SC/3D/3.25

ߴ֟ ָ (֟) : ֲ ִ֕ ׌ I think the word 'child marriage' is oxymoron. Children can't get married. Marriage is the responsibility of an adult. ו ׻֋ ָ߸ , פ , ֻ - ֲ ָ ꓵ , ָ ֟ , ֟ So, we all know that it is a social evil and it must be prevented. Hon. Member, Prabha Thakurji, very rightly pointed out that sometimes even the energy and the commitment of a Government cannot work if a society does not respond to it. But it is also a very responsive system, a catch twenty-two. It is because we respond to a situation that laws come up, legislations come up. No law is static. And, in its dynamics, it will examine and reinvent itself every time to help such direction. lacunae ֯ ֟֋ , ָ ֮ some of these will go for formulation of rules ִ ׻֮ ױ ָ օ þֵ , when I opened the debate that the trafficking is a fallout of such malpractices that we have in our society ׿֟ ׻֋, ֆ we have made a lot of inroads by micro finance. 껱 ָ ֮ ֆ ׬ָ פ ֮ ֤ؕ ָ ֻ , ֓ ׻֋ ™ ָ, ִֵ ָ ׿֟ ׻֋ ׳֕־֮ ֻ ֕ ֮ ֯ ֮ ֣ ٣ ״ֻ֟ ϵ ֮ , ֮ Women are, now, slowly getting empowered at the grassroot level. þ ֕߾ Ӭ ֻ ׻ֵ ӓֵ֟ ׸֮̾ ֋, פ ָ that how to empower women at grassroot level in decision-making. ֮ ֻ ִֵ ֲ 11 ֮ , ִ ָ ϵ we should be able to bring in the paalna scheme, וִ ֓ ָ ֛ ׸ ֟ our sex ratio differences don't go askew, as they are now ָ So, we are looking with a lot of hope towards the Eleventh Plan. Since the Finance Minister is sitting here, I thought that I should share my Christmas wish list with him. And, we should be able to ensure the protection of our child from the time she is conceived because we are killing our children before they are even born. From the time she is conceived to the natural end of her lifetime, we need to be putting in preventive checks, and positive checks, to facilitate her to be able to live her lifetime. Right from the time when we have a lactating mother, with us in the Ministry, we look after her, give her nutritious food, monitor her health parameters, and ensure that she gets a safe institutional delivery system. Then, we look after the mother and child. Immunisation has to be given to the child; ensure that irrespective of the gender the child is kept holistically safe. Zero to six has been transferred to this Ministry. Now, we are putting in pre-school education with toys and health issue so that we can look after these children, facilitating the creches, putting up and strengthening the aanganwadis, expanding the aanganwadis, universalising the ICDS, giving them incentives to keep the adolescent child healthy, giving under-malnutrition adolescent children the additional foodgrain, as well as giving incentives to the families that they will remain unmarried up to the age of 18, and they will be given special packages to ensure that the parents don't look at the girl-child as a liability; and, then, if she remains unmarried till 18, attend school and has immunisation, hopefully this child will be able to get married and survive through domestic violence; of course, we have put in laws on domestic violence in place now. So, if you look at the whole macro-level implementation of the Ministry of Women and Child Development, you will be able to appreciate better that the preventive checks, which we are putting into place, from the time we get a pregnant girl-child on to our hand till the end of her natural lifetime....

(Contd. by 3e -- VP)

VP/MP/3E /3.30

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (CONTD.): It is in keeping with those measures that we have brought about the amendment to this Bill. We hope that by putting in place laws like this, we challenge the hold of customs, superstitions and cultural practices, as well as, change the mindset of the people following centuries-old practices.

ֳ֯ן ߚ߮

Looking at the other end, it has rightly been pointed out by many Members ֛ , ֲ ֤ null and void , ׸ãןֵ , ֓ don't want to remain married. ֲ ֛ ׬ָ ״ֻ ֤ , ֲ ևָ -֯ 㻴 ֤ , ? ֤ և , ָ ֛ ׿֟ , ֜ , sports athlete ֮ ֋, ֋, ֤ ֮ ָ ָ ֙ ֋? ׬ָ ״ֻ֮ , ׻֋ I do not want to remain married to this man. ̟֕ ײ֮ ֤ ׿ֵ֟ ִ ϵ , We have said that anyone declaring child marriages voidable as an option of the party who was a child at the time of marriage. ֮ ו֋, ָ ָ ֣ ָ 14 ֻ ֤ և, 18 ֻ ֤ ָ ֤ ָ-ߙ , ִ֟ ִ ִ֟ ֟ , ױ ß פ , exit policy ꅠ ו ֣ ָֻ֟ , ו ֲָß ֋ , pimps and touts ֛ ֟ ׻ ָ ֤ և , ߾ ױ ָ ֟ , ֛ ־֕ ֮ ׻֋ ֮ פ , ׿ֿ ֮ וִָ ָ -֯ , parents , ָ ׸ non-marriage, null and void annul , ױ , ß և , ֯ ֵ ֯ , ֿ ֮ ׻֋ פ

Clause 4 is regarding maintenance and residence of girl ֮ פ , by the family of the boy. ָ 㻴 ֤ ֋ , ױ ֛ ֛ ֻ וִָ ֛ ֳֻ , ֲ ָ ֤ settle ָ ו ֤ ֛ , ֳֻ

և ׸ ֮ ֲ ֛ crucial provision פ ו֮ ֓ և ׸ ֋, that will be deemed legitimate for all purposes. This protects and safeguards the interests of children. This is clause 6. It contains a crucial provision for children born out of child marriage ֓ ֟ ߠ We have done this on a number of issues. On small, small issues, we have done this. We have amended some provisions with the passing of time. We have to see how best we can establish these as good practices for a society so that we can look forward to establishing a civil society. ֲ ׾ֻ ֵ֙ , ִ practices ׻֋ ָ߲ ָ-ָ ו , ָ߲ ָ߲ ֲ ֮ ֜ ֋ ָ ׸ әָ uneven ֋, ָ߲ , ָ ָ ָ߲ , ֮ ָ ֋? ָ ֮ ֋ ָ߲ ָ߲ practice ̺ ֕ פ ָ ָ ָ ׮ֵ ̸֕ ָ ָ ָ פ , Ù , ָ ָ ָ ָ ָ ? ֕ פ ֺ ֟ ևԠ ָ ֮ ֋ ָ ָ , ֲ ֤ ֻ ꌙ ָ ֮ ֕ פ ꅠ We cannot pretend that this society does not exist, nor can India take that leap into the future by leaving these sections of our society behind. (Contd. by PK/3F)

PK-ASC/ 3F/3.35

ߴ֟ ָ (֟) : ו֮ ֕ כ , ֣ ָ ֟ , ֻ֟ , , ׮ ֋ , ׮ ִ ֵ It is our responsibility to ensure that we have a civil society which means children should enjoy their childhood. ֓ ֮-֮ We, as a Government, have tried to ensure that there is immunisation, that there is free education, that they get a Mid-day Meal Scheme. Shri Rajiv Gandhiji gave the power to vote at the age of 18, so that children are not just dreamers of their destiny, but they become the architects of this nation, take this nation forward, and become part of it. Today, when we bring about amendments to such Bills and we introduce such Bills in Parliament, it is enriched by the experience of all the valuable hon. Members, and I go with the hope that you will carry this mission forward. Each one of us is an opinion maker. In our constituencies, we can put up, put down and make that difference.

ָ ִ֕ ֤־ ֟ ? ֲ ֲ ֣ ״ֻ ׿ֿ , ָָ ֮ ֮֮ ָָ ִ , ָ ֤֮ ִ ָ ׮ֵ ֤֮ ߴ֟ Ӥ ָ that all of us have a special responsibility. ׻֋ ָ ٻִֵ * Ӆ ׮ֵ֟ ֟ ָ ֮ ִ֮ וִָ ָ ...(־֮֬)

.. ׻ֵ : ָ ٻִֵ * ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

ߴ֟ ָ : ֯ ֮ ֟ ה, ?

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ֟ , ...(־֮֬).

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Am I not a ...(Interruptions)

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ֟ , ָ ֳ ֤ ָ ...(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : ֯ ָ פ և օ ֮ ָ ֵ ...(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ָ ֋? ...(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : * ֺ , ָ ֯ ױ ֕

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ָ ߅ ..(־֮֬). ֻ֟ ֟ ֟ ׻֋ ...(־֮֬)..

ӟ ֛פ : ִ ٻִֵ ..(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ֟ ֯ٻִֵ ..(־֮֬)..ٻִֵ ָ * ...(־֮֬). ֲֻ֟ ? . ..(־֮֬)..

. ִ ӛָ : ָ, ֟ ֛֟ ...(־֮֬)...

.. ׻ֵ : * ֲֻ֟ , ִֻ ׻֋ * ...(־֮֬)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN : I will look into it. That was...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ָ : ׻ֵ , ֯ , ָ ֮ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ...(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : , , ֯ ׻֋ ...(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : ֯ ִ , ֯ ״׻ֵօ .(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : , What is this? .(־֮֬).. ֟֋߅ ? ... (־֮֬).. ״׮Ù ? ...(־֮֬).. ״׮Ù , ֟֋? ֟֋ ...(־ָ). , ֟֋, ֟և ... (־֮֬).. ֟֋?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

ֳ֯ן : ֵ֮ ִ֋߅ ..(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : ״׮Ù ? ..(־֮֬)... No .

ߴ֟ ָ : ֠ * ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך, ӟ ֛פ ߅ ...(־֮֬)..ך օ ... (־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : ֤ ױ ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : , ֟֋? ...(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֲֻ֟ ..(־֮֬)

.. ׻ֵ : ֻ֟֋߅ ..(־֮֬)..

ӟ ֛פ : ֻ֟ ֟ ...(־֮֬).. ֯ ״׻ֵ...(־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : ֯ ֤ ֟ , ֟ (־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : ִ ֯ ֟ ָ ֟ (־֮֬)..

.. ׻ֵ : ֳ֯ן , ֟ ߬ , ֯ ׸֛ ו֋ ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ָ : ו֋ ׸֛ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: I am speaking to the Chairperson...(Interruptions)

ߴ֟ ָ : I am also speaking to the Chair...(Interruptions)...

.. ׻ֵ : ׸֛ ו֋, ָ ָ ٻִֵ ...(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : פ ׸֛ օ...(־֮֬)..

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.


.. ׻ֵ : ָ, ֟ ...(־֮֬).. ֟ ָ ٻִֵ *, ֲֻ֟ ָ ٻִֵ * ꌿ֮ ׻ֵ ֟֋߅ ..(־֮֬)..ӡ ָ ֟ ..(־֮֬)... (3G/NB ָ ָ)

skc-nb/3g/3.40

.. ׻ֵ (֟) : , .... (־֮֬)

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I am not yielding to him... (Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You are not yielding, but ... (Interruptions)...

.. ׻ֵ : .... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ׸ .... (־֮֬)

.. ׻ֵ : ֮ ֢ ֺ ... (־֮֬) ֮ ֢ ֺ ... (־֮֬) ֢ ֺ פ , ֢ ֺ ? ... (־֮֬)

ӡ ֟ ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ֋, ֟ ֮֯ , I will see it ָ ٻִֵ * ... (־֮֬)

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: I never said * .... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ׻֋ ... (־֮֬)

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: No, no, I never said that. ...(Interruptions)...

. . ׻ֵ : ׸ ֋ ... (־֮֬)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will look into the records. If it is there, I shall delete it... (Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Why should you delete it? Once it is on ...(interruptions).. ָ ٻִֵ ꠠ * , is it a good word?

ֳ֯ן : , ָ , ׮ֻ .... (־֮֬)

ߴ֟ ָ : ָ ... (־֮֬)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

.. ׻ֵ : ֻ ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ׸ ׮ֻ .... (־֮֬)

.. ׻ֵ : ָ ֮ ֮ ָ ... (־֮֬) * , ֲ ָ ꠠ * ׿ֿ ו֋ ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : כ, ׻֋ ... (־֮֬) Take it in good spirit.... (Interruptions)..

.. ׻ֵ : , ֯ - ... (־֮֬)

SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: Sir, he is casting aspersions on the Chair ...(Interruptions)...

. ִ ӛָ : ָ, ָ ... (־֮֬)

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: Sir, he is insulting the Chair... (Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ׮ֻ .... (־֮֬)

.. ׻ֵ : ָ ٻִֵ ֟։, ֲֻ֟ ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ָ ָ ٻִֵ ֮ ߕ ׻֋ .... (־֮֬) ײֻ .... (־֮֬)

ֵ֮ ֻ ָ : ӡ ָ ֈ ִ֮ ֟ , ֟ .... (־֮֬)

ߴ֟ ָ : ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ׻ֵ , ֯ ֮֟ ֲ ֟ , ֯ , , ָ ָ֮ ׸ ֟֋ ֯ ֮ פ ... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ׻֋ Parliamentary Affairs Minister

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.


SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, he is criticising the efficiency ...(interruptions)... He has no right to criticize the actions of the Chair...(Interruptions)...A Member of Parliament has no right... .(interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) I have already warned him... (Interruptions)... ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ٻִֵ ״׮Ù , ׻֋ ... (־֮֬)

֤ߵ ֵ ӡֵֻ ֕ ӡ ( ֓) : ֤ߵ ֳ֯ן , ֯ ֣Ԯ important ײֻ ָ ֤ ӳ߸ ֓ ֳ ֤õ ӳ߸ ™֟ ֟ participate ׾ֵ , ו ׾־֤ ֮ , ֯ ֣Ԯ ֯ ׸ ׸ ֮ ֤ ֯ ׮Ե , þֵ օ

ֵ֮ ֻ ָ : ֮ ֲ ֯

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: You have been speaking whatever you feel like ... (interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ָ ׾־֤ ֟ և, complete

(Followed by 3h)

HK-AKG/3h/3.45

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: For appointing Child Marriage Prohibition Officers, ׻֋ Ù ־֮Դ וִָ ֮ ֓ ָ ָ ֋, ֻ--ֻ implement , so that there is no violation of behaviour by the protection officers. ׻֋ With all these, we have made several amendments to the Sections of CMRA also. Enhancement and punishment, , ֕ ֻֻ ֲ֕ ֮֟ We have also a number of existing schemes and programmes, ו ָ ו , which exist for the welfare and development of the children including the girl child like Integrated Child Protection Scheme and Integrated Child Development Scheme. Services, , ׌ ֮ and Nutrition Programmes for the Adolescent Girls who come into reproductive years. ֲ ָ ̸֕ ֟ , we have also brought special focus on the girl child. ֕ ֟ it is actually a national crisis. We are in a state of national emergency where the girl child has become an endangered person and we need to be able to protect and look after her and it happens not just at child marriages, not just at domestic violence but during the whole journey of her life, as I had just described before this. We hope to be able to bring the Cradle Baby Scheme or Paalna Scheme whereby we can protect the girl children if parents don't want the girl child. We should be able to take over the responsibility. At the end of all this, it is for all of us to look and introspect our own conscious. ֲ ֮ ֟ ֣ ֟ ִ֕ ֲ Ծָ ִ role , ֲֻ֟, not Members of Parliament, but we, the citizens of this country ָ ־ָ , ָ ֣ , ֲ ִ, ױ ָ ָ ꅠ ׻֋, I seek the consent of this House and I request all of you to please facilitate passing this Bill so that we can adopt this. Thank you. (Ends)

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, I have two clarifications. One is about the Hindu Marriage Act. Do you give some assurance? Secondly, Why didn't you accept the Standing Committee recommendations?

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: This was also passed to the GoM. After that, it went to the Law Ministry for vetting. So, we took the best what we could optimally do. There is very little that we decide on our own, as you will appreciate.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: She has raised a point earlier in this House that people who are above forty years are not allowed to adopt children. She had assured the House that there would be an amendment for this. I would like to say to the hon. Minister that children can be adopted and looked after by people who are above 40 years. So, I would like to have her clarification on this.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Though it is not radically related to it, but I am happy to tell you that the combined age of both parents was not to exceed 80 years or something like that. I will give it to you in writing. We hope to be able to amend because we have better longevity today. It is a thing to be amended. Earlier, we had lesser longevity. Today, we live longer, so we will look at it.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The question is:

That the Bill to provide for the prevention of solemnization of child marriages and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, be taken into consideration.

The motion was adopted.

Clause 2 - Definitions

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill. In clause 2, there is one Amendment (No.5) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

                        That at page 2, line 8, for the word "Prevention" occurring at two places, the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 2, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

Clause 3 - Child marriages to be voidable at the option of contracting party being a child.

 

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In clause 3, there is one Amendment (No.6) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

                        That at page 2, line 25, for the word "Prevention", the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 3, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clauses 4 to 8 were added to the Bill.

(Followed by 3j/SK)

SK-HMS/3j/3.50

Clause 9 - Punishment for male adult marrying a child

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 9, there is one Amendment (No.7) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

7. That at page 3, line 21, for the word "simple", the word "rigorous" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 9, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

Clause 10 - Punishment for solemnising a child marriage

 

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 10, there is one Amendment (No.8) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

8. That at page 3, line 24, for the word "simple", the word "rigorous" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 10, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

Clause 11 - Punishment for promoting or permitting solemnisation of child marriages

 

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 11, there are two Amendments (No.9 & 10) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

9. That at page 3, line 32, for the word "simple", the word "rigorous" be substituted

10. That at page 3, line 34, for the word "women", the word "woman" be substituted.

The questions were put and the motions were adopted.

Clause 11, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clause 12 was added to the Bill

 

Clause 13 - Power of Court to issue injunction prohibition child marriages

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 13, there are two Amendments (No.11 & 12) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

11. That at page 4, line 2, for the word "Prevention", the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

12. That at page 4, line 16, for the word "Prevention", occurring at two places, the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The questions were put and the motions were adopted.

Clause 13, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clauses 14 and 15 were added to the Bill.

 

Clause 16 - Child Marriage Prevention Officers

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 16, there is one Amendment (No.13) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

13. That at page 5,-

                        in the marginal heading, for the word "Prevention" the word "Prohibition be substituted.

                        for the word "Prevention", wherever it occurs the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 16, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

Clause 17 - Child Marriage Prevention Officers to be public servants

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 17, there is one Amendment (No.14) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

14. That at page 5,-

                        in marginal heading, for the word "Prevention" the word "Prohibition be substituted.

                        In line 31, for the word "Prevention", the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 17, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

Clause 18 - Protection of action taken in good faith

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 18, there is one Amendment (No.15) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

15. That at page 5, line 34, for the word "Prevention", the word "Prohibition" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 18, as amended, was added to the Bill.

Clause 19 was added to the Bill.

NEW CLAUSE-19 A - Amendment of Act No. 25 of 1995

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 11, there is one Amendment (No.16), insertion of a new clause, 19A by hon. the Minister.

ֵ֮ ֻ ָ : ִ-ֿ߸ ֻ ־ ָָ þָ þָ?

ֳ֯ן : , ֯

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

16. That at page 5, after line 39, the following new clause be inserted, namely -

19A. In the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955, in section 18, for clause (a), the following clause shall be substituted, namely:-

"(a) in the case of contravention of the condition specified in clause (iii) of section 5, with rigorous imprisonment which may extend to two years or with fine which may extend to one lakh rupees, or with both."

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 19A was added to the Bill.

Clause 1 - Short title, extent and commencement

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In Clause 1, there are two Amendments (No.3 & 4) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:-

3. That at page 1, line 2, for the word "Prevention", the word " Prohibition" be substituted.

4. That at page 1, line 2, for the figure "2004" the figure "2006 be substituted.

The questions were put and the motions were adopted.

Clause 1, as amended, was added to the Bill.

(Contd. by 3k)

-SK/YSR-PSV/3.55/3K

ENACTING FORMULA

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In the Enacting Formula, there is one amendment No.(2) by the hon. Minister.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:

2. That at page 1, line 1, for the word, "Fifty-fifth", the word "Fifty-seventh" be substituted.

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

The Enacting Formula, as amended, was added to the Bill.

LONG TITLE

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In the Long Title, there is one amendment No.(1) by the hon. Minister.


SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:

1. That at page 1, in the long title, for the word "prevention", the word "prohibition" be substituted.

 

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

The Long Title, as amended, was added to the Bill.

 

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:

That the Bill, as amended, be passed.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

(Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we will take up The Appropriation (No.5) Bill, 2006 and The Appropriation (No.6) Bill, 2006 together.

THE APPROPRIATION (NO.5) BILL, 2006

AND

THE APPROPRIATION (NO.6) BILL, 2006

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): Sir, I move:

That the Bill to provide for the authorisation of appropriation of moneys out of the Consolidated Fund of India to meet the amounts spent on certain services during the financial year ended on the 31st day of March, 2005, in excess of the amounts granted for those services and for that year, as passed by Lok Sabha, be taken into consideration.

The Appropriation (No.5) Bill, 2006 seeks to provide for appropriation out of the Consolidated Fund of India of the moneys required to meet the expenditure incurred in excess of the appropriations charged on the Consolidated Fund of India and the Grants made by Lok Sabha for the financial year 2004-05. The excess expenditure has been scrutinised by the Public Accounts Committee who have in their Thirty-First Report (Fourteenth Lok Sabha) recommended regularisation of the excess expenditure on 31st March 2005. Out of the 100 Grants and five Appropriations in 2004-05, excess expenditure occurred in five Grants and one Appropriation.

Sir, I also move:

That the Bill to authorise payment and appropriation of certain further sums from and out of the Consolidated Fund of India for the services of the financial year 2006-07, as passed by Lok Sabha, be taken into consideration.

This Bill arises out of the Supplementary Appropriations charged on the Consolidated Fund of India and Demands voted by the Lok Sabha. It is proposed to augment the sanctioned provision by Rs.21,823.92 crore. Details of Supplementary Demands are given in the document, which has already been laid on the Table of the House.

However, to the extent of Rs.10,378.64 crore, the augmented provision is matched by savings of the concerned Departments or by enhanced receipts/recoveries. In addition, token provision of Rs.52 lakh is being sought, one lakh for each item of expenditure, for enabling re-appropriation of savings in cases involving New Service or New Instrument of Service. Hence, the net cash outgo involved in the proposals is only Rs.11,444.76 crore. Sir, out of total cash outgo of Rs.11,444.76 crore, an amount of Rs.10,738 crore, that is 94 per cent of the cash outgo, is in four items. One, transfer to States; two, fertilizer subsidy; three, interest relief to farmers; and four, the expenditure in police. The reasons for additional requirements have been given in the document. I request the House to consider the demands, discuss them and approve. (Ends)

The questions were proposed.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, the Motions are open for discussion. Shri Surendra Lath.

֚ () : ֮־֤, ֳ֯ן օ ָָ ָ ׾׮ֵ ׾֬ ֣ ן׸ ׾֬ ֵ ֵ , ָ ֮ ׻֋ ֛

(ֳ֬ (0 00׸֮) ߚ߮ )

, ָָ ϟ ֡ ׾׮ֵ ׾֬ ֣ ן׸ ֲ ֤ ֓ , ׾׳֮ ٣ ׾ֵ ָ ֤ ֻ֮

, ׾ֵ ָ ֟ ִֵ ָָ ֮ ֕ ٣ ãן פ֮ , 10 ӓ־ ֮ ִׯ 11 ӓ־ ֮ ָ 2006-2007 ִׯ ָָ ֻ ֡ 2007-2008 ֕֙, ٣ ß ٣ ãן ָ , ־ ָָ 000 8 9 ןֿ֟ ֜ ֣-֣ ָ ֟־ָ ֻ (3/000 ָ ֿ:)

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