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SCH/2N/3.00

The House re-assembled after linch at three of the clock,

THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the chair.

THE JALLIANWALA BAGH NATIONAL MEMORIAL (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006

ֵԙ ӡ ן ӡ (ߴ֟ ״ ): ֳ֯ן , ß־ :

"׻ֵӾֻ ™ߵ ôָ ׬׮ִֵ, 1951 ӿ֮

ֻ ׾֬ ָ, ֳ ָ ׸ , ׾ָ֓ ֋"

 

, ֯ ̟֕ ֮֟ ™ߵ ôָ ׬׮ִֵ 1951, ׻ֵӾֻ , ָ 13 , 1919, פ ָ ֋ ߤ ֵֻ ֻ ׌ֵ ôן ָ ֮ ׻֋ ™ߵ ôָ ׸׮ִ ϲӬ֮ ׻֋ ׸ ֵ օ ׬׮ִֵ ٟ ׻֋ ָ ֿ֌ ֵ օ ׻ֵӾֻ ™ߵ ôָ ֕߾֮ ׻֋ ׮ֵ㌟ ߮ ֮־ , ׾֟ , , ־ ֻ , . ߮ ֻ ֮ ִ ֤֕ ׬׮ִֵ ӿ֮ ߮ ׸ ã֮ ָ ֕߾֮ ֵ 韵 ֮ ָ ׸׌ֵ , ָ ™ ׬ ֿ߻ ֮֮ ׻֋ ֟Դ֮ ׾֬ ִ֬ ב׮ִֵ ӿ֮ ־ֿ ֵ ӿ֮ ־ פ ߮ ׸׌ֵ , ִ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֋, ׾֯ ֋ ӡ ן ϳָ ӳֻ֟ , ֋ ֯ ֮ ָ ׿ֿ ו ׮ֵ֤ ֕Ͳ֟ Ù ֮֟ ִֵ ™ ִֵ ־֮֋ , ִ -֤ ֵ ֮ ִ -֤ ϵ օ ־ ֮ ׾֬ ָ ӿ֮ ֈә , ָ ӛ כ ָ֮ ֱ ٙև ӛ כ ֋ ֤ ֈә ֋

ָ, ӿ֮ ֌ ֤ ׻֋ 1919 ֮ ֲ 㻴 ֱֻ ָ Ӥ֮ օ ֌ ꌙ ֵ օ 㻴 ָ֓ , ָ ֳֆ ָ ֲӤ ֮, ꌙ օ ꌙ ֱֻ ϤԮ ׻ֵӾֻ . ֻ . ֻ֟֯ 韾 ָ ϤԮ ֵ, וִ ָָ ֵօ ָָ ָ־ Ӥ֮ ה ֵ օ ֟ Ӭ ֻ־ֻ ָָ ֵ օ ָ ֓ ֵ , Ù 13 , פ, ֲ ָ ֤֤ Ӿ פ î֮ ׻֋ ֋ , ֳ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ ס֟ ִ ߲֮ ֳ ֮֟ ׻ֵӾֻ ߮ ָ ߾ָ בָ Ӥ ֮ ׻֋ ß ֲ ָ ֤֤ Ӥ ֟ , Ӧ ָ , ָ 2O/SC ָ ָ

SC/TDB/3.05/2O

ߴ֟ ״ (֟) : ֲ ן֯ ֳ ָ ׻֋ Ӥ ֋, ָ ָ֮ ֵָ ֋ ֯ ֋ ֯ פ ֵ Ӭ֬ ׻ֵ ָ ֋ ֟ ֓ , , , Ӭ֬Ӭ ׻ֵ ָ ֵ ֮ ֋ ֋ , ָ ߲֮ ָ ֤ , ָ ֋ ׻ֵ ׿ָ ֮ ֋ ֕ ׻ֵ ׮ֿ֮ ֲ ֤ פ֟ ָ ֤֕ ׻֋ ֮ ֤ ֤ ֵӅ ָ, ֌ ָ֮ ֵָ , ִ ָߵ , þ֟ӡ֟ ׮ֵ , ֮ ֤֕ ֮ , ֮ ָ פ ֵ ָ ׌ , , ו֮ ֲ ӳ־ , ָ֮ ֵָ ֟ - ־֮Ը ָ֮ - 21 ֻ ֤ ֮ ֮ ֣֯ օ ֱ ֮֟ ־֮֋, ָ ֌ ̸֧֕ ֟ - ӕֲ , ֻ ֵֻ ֵ, دָ֕ Ӥ ֵ - , ׾ָ , ׻ֵ ִ֮ , ֤ ֤ ־֮ ֜ ֻ ֋ ־֮ , ָ֤ ֮ ֻ ל ֤ , ֋, ׻֋ ֵ֮ ֵ օ ׻ֵӾֻ Ù 1951 ֵ֮ ֵ , ߤ ֤ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ֵ֮ ֵ օ ֕߾֮ ִ֮ ֮֕ , 韵 ָ, ֻ 1964 Ù , ֵ֤ ӿ֮ ֮ , ֕ ֲ ӿ֮ ֵ , ֮ ָ ֤ ֮ ֌ ̲֕֟ ֻ־֛ օ Ù -֤ ֮֕ן ֵ ֵ߅ ָ ׿ֿ Ϭִ֮ӡ, ׾֯ ӡ ϳָ , ן ִֻ , ߮ ֟ ׿ֿ ־֮ֆ ָָ ֋ We honour those people the way they were honoured in 1951. We should not dilute the memory of those people and the tribute we have been paying constantly, year after year, every time, should not be diluted. That is why I have brought in this very minimal amendment to the original Act of 1951. I request the House to get it passed. (Ends)

The question was proposed.

ָ֕ (ֻ֓ Ϥ) : ֮־֤ ֳ֯ן , ׻ֵӾֻ ִ ֲ ָ ִ֮ ֟ , ׾ ׌ֵ ֤ ֟ ,

׻ֵӾֻ , ֻ ׻ֵ,

ָ Ӥ -, ָ ׻ֵ,

ָ ֻ ֲ ׻ֵӅ

֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ß֮ Ϥ, ߸ ָ ֟ Ϥ ֕ ӯ ֕ , ӕֲ ׾֡ ָ ׻ֵӾֻ ã֟ ß֮ ָ ߻ ױ ָ ֋ ß֮ ָ ߮ ׬ ֵֻ ׻֋ ָ ֮ ֮ ָ ֵֻօ ֻ֮ ָ ָ ָ ׾׳֮ ִֵ ָ, 1857 ϣִ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ־ ֿ֟ ׾׳֮ ןָ Ӥ֮ (2 ָ ֟)

ASC-SSS/2P/3.10

ָ֕ (֟) : .... ֿ֟ ™֤ Ӥ֮ ָ ו֮ ָ 1947 ß֮ ֤֕ օ ϣִ ׾ ִֵ ֲ ß֮ ֤ ־ֿ , ִֵ ָ ָ ֤ , ָ ֤֕ 1919 ֤֕ ã֮ ָ ָ ָ ֮ ׿ ֤ ֮ ָ פօ פ Ӥ ֟ ֕ 韾 , Rowlat Act ִ ֮ , ׾ָ ׻֋ ֛ ׮օ ָ פ ֲ ָ ־ ֮֮ ׻֋, ׿ֵ ֮֮ ׻֋ ָ ׻ֵӾֻ ס֟ ָ ׻ֵ ָ֮ ֵָ ִ ׌ , ִֵ ֟ ֻ ָ , 韾 ָ ׻ֵ ֻ ָ ָ ֻ פօ ָ ֮֟ ָ ָ ״֙ ֻ , þ֟ӡ֟ ֻ , ߮ ׻ֵ ֻօ ִֵ . ֻ ֻ֟֯ ֮ ֆ 韾 þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ֻ օ ֤֕ ׻֋ ׮ֵ ֲ 1947 ָ ֤֕ ֲ ֟ ו֮ ֤֕ ֛և ׻ֵ , ו֮ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ֮ ־þ ־ָ , ו֮ ֤֕ ׻֋ ׮ֵ , ָ ֤ ֋օ ֤֕ ״ֻ֮ ֿ֟, ֤֕ ֛և ״ֻ , ֟ ֋ ֤֕ ֛և ֛ ֻ ׻֋ ָ ôָ פ ֮֮ ִ ָ օ ׻ֵӾֻ ו ָ ӛ , ֛և ڮ ևә օ ֤ ֤֕ ֛ , ןָ ָ ־ ןִֵ ָ ߅ ׻֋ ִֵ ֆ ֵ ׻ֵӾֻ ׻֋ Ù ֵ֮ ֋, ӯע ֳֻ ָ ׸ֻ ֮, ָ ֳֻ , ֮ ֻ ל , ֟ ôָ ֤֕ ֯ , ֮ ֟, ֿ֌, ֮ ׸ִ ֮ ׮ֵ ֤ ״ֻ ׻֋ ָ ׸ֻ ֮֮ ׻֋ Ù ׮ִ ֵօ Ù ִֵ ֻ֟߮ Ϭִ֮ӡ כ ־ֻ , ֻ ֮ ִ ֤֕ ״ֻ , ׌ Ùߕ ֮֋ ֋ Ù ִ ֻ֟ օ ִ ־֮Ը ӕֲ ߱ ״׮Ù ӕֲ ֤õ ״ֻ ֵ , ߮ ֮ ֆ 韵 ֿ֟ ׾֛֮ ֟ ָָ ֆ ָ ֕ ֢߮ , ֤ և ׻ֵӾֻ ׸ֻ Ù ֲ ߮ ׌, by name ָ , ֲ 韵 և , ־֮ ֵ , ã֮ ָ ֵ ־ã ֮ 2Q/NB ָ ֿ:

NB/2Q/3.15

ָ֕ (֟) : : ֟ 1979 ָָ ן ӡֵֻ ֟ פ ִֵ ׾ָ֓ ִ ־ֿ 1980 ֿ֟ ָ֟ ױ ֙ ֮ ָ , ֟ ؓ֟ ׸ֻ Ù ֮ ֵ֮ , ָ ֮ þ֟ӡ֟ ׮ֵ ֮ , ױ ֋ 24 ֻ ߟ ֋, 24 ֻ ֮ ֯ ֤ 1998 ָ ֮ ֤֮ ׻֋ ׾֬ ֵ ֤ Ù؛ ֵօ ֮ ֵ֮ , ִ ߮ , ֕߾֮ ֤õ , ֕߾֮ Ù , ã֮ ָ ֵ ־ã և ӟԟ Ϭִ֮ӡ ָָ֮ ֟ , ׌ Ϭִ֮ӡ , ׻ֵӾֻ ׸ֻ Ù, ֯ Ù ֯ ן ֙ ־ , ׻֋ ִ Ϭִ֮ӡ ָ ד֟ ֵ ֮ ָ ֵ , ִ ָ ״׮Ù ֤õ ֵ֮ ֵ , ׾ָ ִ 3 eminent persons ֋, ִ ׾ָ , eminent persons ܵ , eminent persons ֕ ׸ãןֵ Ù ֮ , eminent persons , ܵ ײֻ և Ù؛ ֟ ָ ׾ָ֓ ׸ӛ֮ ׻֋ ־֮֬ ֋, ־֮֬ ֮ ֱ׸ և eminent person ָ , ָ ֻ ָ Ù , וִ ֤֕ ֛և ו ן ֙ ָ ӕ ֮ ֳֻ , ׻֋ ֤֕ ֛և ֻ , ִ ו ֟, ܵ ֟, օ : 3 eminent persons ֯ , ָ ܵ ֮ օ ׻֋ ִ֟ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ָ پָ֓ ׻֋ ֮֋ ִ ܵ , ֣ nominations , 3 ֙ ֋, ӲӬ ׻ֵӾֻ ӛ , þ֟ӡ֟ ֮ ָ ӲӬ ֙ ָ ֮֟ ֮֟ , ػ ֙ , ׻֋ nomination , ָ֬ ָ ָ ׌, ָ Ù nominate ֟ ׻֋ ׻֋ ־ ꌙ ־֮֬ ־ֿ

ֳ֯ן , ִ ־֮֬ ֵ President of Indian National Congress Ù ִ ֤ ֳ֟ , ׾׬ ׾֛֮ ו֮ ױֵ ׮ֻ֮ ׻֋ ׻ֵӾֻ ӛ , וִ ָ ߤ , וִ ׮֤ ׻ֵ ֵ, ߮ ֋, וִ ָ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ֛և ֛ , ִ ױ * .... (־֮֬) ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ִ ... (־֮֬)

Ͼ ™ֻ : * .... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ : ׸ ֋ ... (־֮֬) 2R/AKG ָ

USY-NBR/AKG/2R/3.20

ֳ֯ : ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... It has not gone on record. (Interruptions) I have removed it. (Interruptions) ָ * ... (־֮֬) ... It has been deleted. (Interruptions) It has been expunged. (Interruptions) ֋, ... (־֮֬) ... No, you can't call it. (Interruptions) ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... Nothing will go on record. (Interruptions) ָ֕ , ֯ ׻֋ ... (־֮֬) ...

׾ֵ֕ ָ : *

ֵָ : *

Ͼ ™ֻ : *

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, this should be removed from the record. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It has been removed. (Interruptions)

ָ֕ : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ִ ׻ֵ provision President, Indian National Congress ֤õ օ ָ ׾ָ ִ֣Ԯ , ֤õ ׬ָ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֳ֯ן : ׾ָ ִ֣Ԯ ו֋, ָ * ... (־֮֬) ... * ... (־֮֬) ... ... (־֮֬) ... ײֻ ֻ֟ , ׮ֻ ו֋ ... (־֮֬) ... permission ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ President, Indian National Congress , ֟ ... (־֮֬) ...

----------------------------

* Not recorded.

ָ֕ : ִ ... (־֮֬) ... I have never ... (Interruptions) ... about any person. (Interruptions) ...

ֳ֯ : ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ ׻֋ ... (־֮֬) ...

ָ֕ : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ֱ objection Indian National Congress ß֮ þ֬߮֟ ִ ֚ , ... (־֮֬) ... ... (־֮֬) ... ֕ ... (־֮֬) ... . ִָ֕ Indian National Congress ... (־֮֬) ... פ ִ ָ ֮֟ , ִ objection ֤ ß֮ ֮ ֵ֮ , ß֮ ֤ ֮ ֮ , ִ ׌ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֳ֯ : , ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ...

ָ֕ : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ֻ ׮־ ִ clause ֵ , ָ Standing Committee ֱ כ , ֤ ָ֟ ֟ ... (־֮֬) ... ִ ֵ ... (־֮֬) ... ֕ ֤ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ׮־ ֯ Culture Minister ֋, ֯ Chief Minister, Punjab ֋, Governor, Punjab ֋, ֯ Prime Minister ֮֋, ִ objection ֯ ׸ֻ ֮ ו֋, ִ ָٙ ֙ Ù , ֤ ָ ֋ ׾֬ ָ ֵ֮ ֋, ֟ ָ ָ֕ ׻֋ -- clause ִ֣Ԯ

֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ן׸ ֮ 1979 Culture Ministry ֟ ֻ ֵ ִ ߮ life members 韵 , ã֮ ָ ֤־ , ֿ֟ ֕ ֕ : ִ ִ ָ , Culture Ministry ״׮Ù Culture Ministry ֵ֮ ֵ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ׮־ ֟ ѓ ֋ Ù ָ ִ֕ ֻ ִ ־ã և ߋ ָ כ օ ֟ , ֵ ֙ ֈә ֟ ߋ ָ כ ֈ ֋, ִ ָ ֵ פ ֵ, ִ ֓ , Ù ָ ִ (2 ָ ֿ:)

USY/HMS/VP/3.25/2S

ָ֕ (֟) : ֳ֯ן , Ͽ ָ ֵ֟ ָ Ϭ֮ סֵ ôָ ָ ֓ ֟ Ӥ Ϭ֮ ӡ ו֮ ָ ֓ , Ϭ֮ ӡ ׻֋ ֺ ָ ָ ָ Ù , ָ ôָ ָ ִ֟ և Ù ֮ פ ֋ ִ פ ֋ ֤ ָ maintain

ӟ , ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ײֻ ֵ, خ֤ ֣ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ׮־ ...(־֮֬)...

ֵָ : ָ, - ָ000 ֯ ִ

ֳ֯ : ׸ ָ ֋օ

00 ׸֤ : ֯ ֲ -״ ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : -, ׸֤ ... ... ך

ֵָ *

00 ׸֤*

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN : Nothing will go record. ...(Interruptions)...

ָ֕ : ׻֋ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ׮־ ֯ ׾֬ ֯ ֣ ߛ כ֮ ֻ֮ Ӳ׬֟ ׸ָ ׌ ֋ ו þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ׻ֵ

ߴ֟ ׾֯־ : ָ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ׸ָ ...(־֮֬)...

ָ֕ : , ߴ֟ ׾֯־ ֮֟ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ ֮ ׻ֵ ֋, ָ ָ֕ օ ֟ ָ ֺ ֮ ֣ ײ֮ ׾֬ ִ֣Ԯ օ (ִ֯)

----------------------------

* Not recorded.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (GUJARAT): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I thank you very much. I am here to support the Bill presented by the hon. Minister of Culture. One should not dispute it because if you refer to the freedom struggle of this country, it was the longest in the world. The freedom struggle, in the real sense, started in 1857. It started in 1857 and continued up to 14th August 1947. So, approximately, for hundred years the people of this country were fighting for freedom. It was a struggle against the foreign Government; foreign rule, and not against the foreign people. One of the most learned men of this country has gone on record to say that I hate the British Government, but I love the British people. We should remember that also because we belong to that culture and sanskriti where we are daily reciting Vasudaiva Kutumbakam. When it comes to some of the political issues, we become very narrow; we talk of the Taluka, we talk of the State, and, sometimes, of the country and forget what is vasudha. So, after 1857, you go through the history of India, whether it is the struggle in Bihar, Chauri Chaura, whether it is the Dandi Yatra in Gujarat, or, whether it is the Jallianwala Bagh incident or a sacrifice made in a small village of Uttar Pradesh. I visited Lakhimpur Kheri. I was surprised to know that in one single village there are 22 freedom fighters. In one single village 22 freedom fighters are there! A man aged 24 years belonging to the Misra family was, I was informed, the last man hanged by the British Government in the year 1944 for his participation in the 1942 Quit India Movement in Uttar Pradesh. He was hanged at the age of 24. His son is right now alive and staying in Lakhimpur Kheri. Like that, we have Shri Vinod Kinariwala in Gujarat, who opened his shirt and told the Britishers to fire. He was a student studying in the Gujarat College of Ahmedabad. He was fired by the Britishers. There are dozens and dozens, and hundreds and hundreds of people all over the country. Some of them, we do not know also. Some of them, we do not remember also. But memorials are erected for great events like the Jalliawallah Bagh or 1857 Mutiny and for Jhansi ki Rani, and Dhanna Singh Gurjar in Meerut. (Continued by PB/2T)

PB-PSV/2T/3.30

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (CONTD.): These are the people. Then, we had Madan Lal Dhingra, then Bhagat Singh, then Chandrasekhar Azad. Then, we had Bipin Chandra Pal; Lal, Pal and Bal. The entire India is there, whether it is Tilak, Lok Manya Tilak, Gokhle, Mahatma Gandhi, they all fought for the freedom and the fruits of this freedom struggle we are enjoying today sitting in this Parliament. In fact, British Government had decided in the year 1935 ...(Interruptions)... yes; yes; those who tendered apology are also sitting in this House and those who sacrificed are also sitting in this House. But that is the democracy of our country, one of the best democracies in the world. ...(Interruptions)... A correct suggestion was made that the trustee should belong to a freedom fighter family. Now, I will give you the name of Motilal Nehru. Was he not a freedom fighter? Then, I will give you the name of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. Was he not a freedom fighter? Then, Shrimati Indira Gandhi. ...(Interruptions)... She is the daughter of Nehru, Motilal Nehru's granddaughter.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rashtrapal, kindly address the Chair. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I want to address others also.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Why are you addressing them? ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Some of them are listening very attentively. So, when you start from Motilal Nehru, come to Jawaharlal Nehru, then Indira Gandhi, then her son and ...(Interruptions)... he was the Prime Minister and ...(Interruptions)... her Bahu; is she not a member of the freedom fighters family? The Bahu of the Gandhi family is definitely a member of a freedom fighters family. So, he has given a correct suggestion. She is not only the President of a main political party, one of the oldest in this country. According to my information, Bhartiya Jan Sangh came into being in the year 1949; that is safely after Independence. Safely after Independence. Before Independence, they had no role. ...(Interruptions)... BJP came into being in 1980, very young, wearing *, very young. So, they don't have the experience of the freedom struggle of this country, whereas the Indian National Congress was founded ...(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ָ, ? ...(־֮֬)... ? ...(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : ֳ֯ן , ...(־֮֬)... ״֮֙ ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ? ...(־֮֬)...

׾ֵ֕ ָ : ָ, ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ֯ և ...(־֮֬)... Ͼ ™ֻ , ֯ ׻֋ ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: So, in view of that ... ...(Interruptions)... In view of this, I support ... ...(Interruptions)...

00 ׻ֵ : , ™ֻ , ֻ ...(־֮֬)... כ ָ ָ, ֯ ָ ֮ ו֋, ֛ ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ֮ ...(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : , ו ֌ ֟ ֵ, ֲ ֮֯ ֮ פ ...(־֮֬)...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

SHRI PRAVEEN RAHSTRAPAL: Let me conclude. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Deputy Chairman, let me conclude. ...(Interruptions)...

00 ׻ֵ : ֟ ֯ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RAHSTRAPAL: I am not yielding. ...(Interruptions)... I am not yielding. ...(Interruptions)... I am not yielding. ...(Interruptions)... You are a senior Member. I am not yielding. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: I am speaking to the Chair.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: I will not yield today. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Don't yield. Who bothers? ...(Interruptions).. Who bothers? ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Let me conclude. ...(Interruptions)... Let me conclude. ...(Interruptions)... Let me conclude. ...(Interruptions)...

00 ׻ֵ : , ָ, ֯ ֟ ׮֋ ...(־֮֬)... ֌ ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : כ, ֵ ...(־֮֬)... , , ֟ ...(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : ֯ ֟ ׸, ָ ...(־֮֬)... ָ ֟ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ׻֋ ...(־֮֬)... ֯ ׻֋ ...(־֮֬)... , ֯ ׻֋ ֯ ֟ , you attack the Chair. ...(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : ָ ֙ ָ indecent ֲ ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ֟ х I will remove it. ...(Interruptions)... I will look into it. ...(Interruptions)...

00 ׻ֵ : ִ ֮ ? ...(־֮֬)... ִ ֮ ? ...(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: If it is unparliamentary, we will remove that.

00 ׻ֵ : ָ ֮֯ , ׸ ה ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ : ? ...(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : ָ , ֯ӕ ׸ ...(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have expunged it. ...(Interruptions)... I have expunged it. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: That is all.

ֳ֯ : ֯ ׻֋ ֮ ֋? ...(־֮֬)... ֯ פ ...(־֮֬)... You are doing it. I am not doing it. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: I am concluding. I am concluding. ...(Interruptions)...

00 ׻ֵ : ֯ ֮ ׻֋ ָ ...(־֮֬)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You can't accuse me like that. ...(Interruptions)... The whole House knows about it. ...(Interruptions)...

(Followed by 2u/SKC)

2u/3.35/skc-klg

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I take this opportunity...(Interruptions)...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rashtrapal, when you speak, please use parliamentary words.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I do.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, you have not used parliamentary words.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, if you find anything unparliamentary, you may get it removed (Interruptions) It is not unparliamentary ... (Interruptions)...

SHRI B.K. HARIPRASAD: If it is unparliamentary,...(Interruptions)...

ֵָ : ...(־֮֬)

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ : ִ ֯ٻִֵ ? ..(־֮֬) ...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is for the Chair to decide which words are parliamentary and which are unparliamentary. You may please sit down...(interruptions)... The word he has used is unparliamentary; it has been said there that it is unparliamentary; please don't argue.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I take this opportunity to salute all Freedom fighters; I dislike those who have not participated in the struggle of the Freedom fighters when they were alive at the time of the Freedom struggle and were just about 18 years old then. I take this opportunity to salute them. But the amendments are very beautiful amendments in the sense that we are allowing the Trust to be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India. The Trust has been asked to call at least one meeting in a year. The audited accounts are to be presented to both Houses of Parliament, and even when the Trust is framing some rules and regulations, they are also to be presented to both Houses after they are framed. It was suggested very rightly that the Trust was not given money in the past as a result of which proper care could not be taken. I suggest that the hon. Minister concerned take care of not only the Jalianwala Bagh Memorial, but all such memorials all over the country may be given appropriate assistance from the Government of India.

With these words, Sir, I support the Bill and recommend that it be passed. (Ends)

߸ י (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ׻ֵӾֻ ™ߵ ôָ ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ ׾ָ ֮ ֟ ֺ ־ , ߮ ִ ׻ֵӾֻ ֲ ִ ֟ , ֮֓֯ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ ן ֵ֜ ֟ , ד֡ ָ ִ֮ ֟ ָ ֤֕ ָ֮, ֤֕ ֯ ֣ ־ָ , ָ ֤֮ ߅ ֤֕ ֛և ߤ , ֤֕ ֛և ֟־ֻ , ו֮ ײי ֟ ִ֮

, 1857 ֤ ָ þ֟ӡ֟ ִ , ָ ײי ֮ ߻ ֟ ָ , 1919 ׻ֵӾֻ ӛ ֤ ԅ ִֵ ָ , ִֵ כ֮ ֻ֮ ׌ ׾ֿ ֙ ׾ֿ ߅ ֤֕ Ӥ֮ Ӥ֮ , ִ , ֕ ָ ӕֲ ֻ ֕֯֟ ֵ 韾 , ָ™ ןֻ , ֻ ֕ ֮ , ו֮ ֛ ֮ ןָ ֵ֤ 2/ ָ ...

AKA-HK/2W/3:40

߸ י (֟) : ֤֕ ֛և ָ Ϥ ֻ , ֯, ֙, ִִ ֤֕ ֛և ֛ ֻ , ו֮ ֤֕ ֛և ֮ ן , ו֮ ׻֤֮ פ 1919 ֟ ײי ֮ ߻ , 1947 , ֲ ֤֕ ״ֻ߅ ֲֻ֟ ֱ ֕ כ֮ ֻ֮ ֢ ׻֋ , ֮֕ן ִֵ כ֮ ֻ֮ ֱ ֮֕ן ׌ , ׻ ֮֟ ׌ , ִו ֮֕ן Ӥ֮ , ֟ Ӭ ֤ד֮ ָ ֻ, ß ָ ֤֕ ֛և ֛ , ֤֕ ֯ ϟ օ ׻֋ ֲ ָ כ֮ ֻ֮ ִ ֵ, ״ ֟ , ֟ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ ֮֕ן , ו֮ ָ ֢ , ׾ָ ֳ ֮֕ן ֟ , ֲ ֯ ֟ ֟ , ֲ ֯ ֟ ־Ԯן , ֲ ֯ ֲ ן ֟ , ֟Դ֮ ׸ ֻ כ֮ ֻ֮ ֤õ ֵ֮ ֟ ׾ָ ٙ ֤õ ֵ֮ ֟օ ֮֯ , , כ ׸ָ ֤֮ ָ , ֮ ֤֮ ָ , ™ׯ֟ ֟ Ӭ ֤֕ ׻֋ , ֤ ֮֮ ֛, ֕ ֲ ֻ ֮֕ן ׌ և , ִֵ ֯ ׾ָ ׾ָ , ֟ , ™֤ ָ ־ָ , , , ׮Ù ֙ , ִ֕־֤ ֙ , 000 , ٙ ֮֕ן ִ ״ֻ ֮ ִ , ִ ..(־֮֬)..

֕߾ ㌻ : *

ֳ֯ : , , ׮ֻ ו֋ ׸֛ ..(־֮֬)..

߸ י : ֯ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ָ : ֯ ׯ ו֋, ։ ֻ֮ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ׸֛ ׮ֻ פ ..(־֮֬).. I have removed it. (־֮֬).. ָ , ..(־֮֬).. ָ , ߕ̅ That has gone out of record. ׸֛ ׮ֻ פ ..(־֮֬)..

߸ י : ִ֕־֤ י֮ ֤֕ ֛և , ָ ֕߾ ㌻ ֻ ֕߾ ㌻ ן ֜ ..(־֮֬)..

ֵָ : ֤֕ ֮֮ ֻ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : ך, ך ..(־֮֬).. , ך ..(־֮֬).. ֯ כÙ ֟ ו֋, ֯ ך ..(־֮֬)..

ֵָ : *

ֳ֯ : ֯ ך Nothing will go on record. ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬)..

ֵָ : *

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.

߸ י : ִ֕־֤ ֙ 0 , ֵ֓ ֻ֮, , ָ , ֲ ֤֮ ֤֕ ֛և օ

---------------------------

*Not Recorded.

ֱ ן ֮ ִ ֟ , ֺ֢ ֙ Ӳ׬֟ , ֟ ָ , ִ֕־֤ ֲ ֢ ֯ և ֳ֢ , ֢ ִו ן ׻֋ ֛ ִ֕־֤ ֋? ֯ ִ֕־֤ ׾ָָ֓ ֟ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ : , ֯ ִ ֋, ָ ֯ ׮֋

߸ י : ֱ ֕ ִ ......

('2x/sch' ָ ָ)

SCH/TDB/3.45/2X

߸ י (֟): ִ ִִ ֮֕ן ״׻֟ ֋օ ï™ ֤ ײֻ ׸ , ׻ֵӾֻ ִ ָ - ָ ֤ Ϥٿ֟

ֱ ״֮֙ օ ֮֯ ֟ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ , ״ , ֮֓֯ ָ ߟ , ׮ֻ ָ ֲ ׮ֻ ֟ þ פ ֟ ־ֿ , ׻ֵӾֻ ֮ ־ֿ , ״ , ֯ ֮ פ ָ ֣ , ֯ ׻ֵӾֻ և , ׻ֵӾֻ ֤ ׻ֵӾֻ ӛ ֤֕ ֛և ״ , ֮֯ ׻ֵӾֻ ֵ֮ ? - ֆ ִ׬ֵ ָ ֵ ֓ , ׻ֵӾֻ , ׾֤ ֟ ׾ָ ϟ , þֺ , ֯

ןִ ֟ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֲ ֮֓֯ ֜ ן ֮ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ  ֵ֜ ֟ օ פ ֮ և ә ן ֮ , ִ ו ָ ׻ֵӾֻ ָ ֵ֟ , ֻ֟ ֵ֟ , ֯ ֻ և ׻ֵӾֻ ֜ ׻ֵӾֻ ߤ , ֤֕ ָ֮ , ֤֕ ׻֋ ӑ ו֮ ֮ ֮ ן , ꌙ , ֵ ן ֮ ׻ֵӾֻ ֙ ד֟ ã֮ ו֋ ֲ ֣ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֵ , ֵ ָօ

(ִ֯)

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (WEST BENGAL): Sir, the national monuments linked with our Independence movement must be maintained in a best way to remember the glorious anti-imperialist struggle, the history and to perpetuate the memories not only of the freedom fighters but also of such historical places. It is a fact that the freedom movement was led by the Indian National Congress. Mahatma Gandhi led the Satyagraha Movement. But, at the same time, the direct movement against the British Colonialism, against the British rule, was started by the workers' strikes, the students' strikes, the peasants' revolt, the Gadar Movement. All of them have played very important role. The role of Azad Hind Wahini and everything is there. Sir, many such incidents have not found the required place in the history of our freedom movement also. Sir, in this particular case, how has the Government reacted? Actually, Pandit Nehru had died in 1964, and this matter came for discussion in 2003, in the Standing Committee; and now, finally, in the end of 2006, in the House. This is the Government's initiative to perpetuate the memory, to build up the trustees, to fill up the vacancies and all. Such was the role of the Government. Now, Sir, how the incident of 1919 has been written in the Aims and Objects to perpetuate the history? The incident of 1919, brutal attack on unarmed civilians at Jallianwala Bagh influenced even Bhagat Singh at the age of only 12 years. (Contd. by 2y-sss)

SSS/2Y/3.50

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (CONTD.): We know that, Sir, it has been recorded that Bhagat Singh immediately went to the Bagh, collected its soil in a bottle and kept it as a constant reminder of the hurt and humiliation that the Indian people had suffered. Such was the history, Sir, anti-imperialist history and you know how General Dyer opened fire and 1600 rounds of ammunition on the unarmed crowd of 10,000, killing 379 (according to the estimate) and unofficially it was put over 1000 and leaving over 1200 wounded. Such was the history. Sir, I would like to mention about Tagore. He actually first reacted over the killings of the tragic incident and I know from history he could not sleep for the whole night. He even discussed the matter with C. R. Das and before any political leaders reacted, it was Rabindranath Tagore who reacted and that influenced very much the entire revolt against this and he said, "These are the reasons which have compelled me to ask your Excellency, with due deference and regret, to relieve me of my title Knighthood" and "...are without parallel in the history of civilised Governments". He mentioned that while taking this decision. Sir, in the Act 1951, the President of Indian National Congress was included in the Trust. It is a fact. But after the demise of the three persons, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru, Saiffuddin Kichlu and Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, an amendment was necessiated in the said Act and then, this Amendment Bill, 2003 was prepared by Shri Jagmohan when he was the Minister and it was placed in the Committee. What is my reaction? My reaction, Sir is, it would have been better if President, Indian National Congress, would not have been included in the Trust. In the Standing Committee also, some spoke in favour and some spoke against. It was not a very unanimous opinion in that forum. I feel the Home Minister has been left out. Why? The Home Minister must have a place there who can serve the memorials, the ideals of freedom movement in general and the Jallianwala Bagh movement in particular. The three eminent persons should be nominated in the Trust by the Central Government. Who will decide and how it will be decided? Who are the eminent persons? That will be decided by the aims and objectives of this Trust. So, let there be a Committee. It is good that the Leader of the Opposition has been included. The PM, Leader of the Opposition, the Minister of Culture or somebody should be included. Sir, methods should be there to find out who are the eminent persons to be included in the Trust. Lastly, Sir, I would like to mention many places. I know, Sir, our Calcutta Town Hall, the memory of Rabindranath Tagore is very much linked to the freedom movement. When I was a Mayor I asked the Government to help me to build up a historical freedom monument there. I was not replied. When I was the Mayor of Calcutta, I know the historical Town Hall. There are places like Chouri Choura, Kamagatu maru. In Calcutta, there are Benoy, Badal, Dinesh and all other such historical places which should be maintained in a befitting manner as a historical monument in such places. With these few words, with these observations, I support this Bill. Thank you. (Ends) (Followed by NBR/2Z)

-SSS/NBR-AKG/2Z/3.55.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Thank you, Sir. This amendment has been brought before this House for three or four reasons. The first one is to constitute a Committee consisting of the hon. Prime Minister, the President of the Indian National Congress and the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Lok Sabha. I don't know the logic of leaving the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha as a Member of the Committee. Sir, Lok Sabha gets dissolved every now-and-then. But, since Rajya Sabha is a permanent House, it is better if the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha is also included in this. Sir, the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Punjab Assembly -- when the Chief Minister of Punjab is there -- is also required to be included in the Committee. Presently, the Congress is the ruling party in Punjab and also at the Centre. In future, you may require a post in the Committee. Nobody knows; you come to this side. So, it is essential to include the hon. Leader of the Opposition of Punjab Assembly in the Committee.

Sir, I had visited Jallianwala Bagh. It needs some facelift to preserve and inspire the people. We also need to bring some literature on Jallianwala Bagh in all the Indian languages and make it available for visitors. For future generations, it is very much essential to bring all the places of inspiration and places of learning like Cellular Jail or the places of importance in Kolkata under one umbrella so that the people will have information, which works as a source of inspiration.

Apart from this, we are going to celebrate the 150th Year of our Freedom Struggle. On the one hand, we are preserving and conserving all this and, on the other, we are ignoring our freedom fighters. Even today, people from my own State are running from pillar to post in the corridors of power in Delhi to get pension! The situation is very pathetic. We had a discussion on this in this august House and we also met the hon. Home Minister to hear the pleas of the freedom fighters and to solve their problems and grievances. But, nothing has happened.

The other point is, there are five amendments to this Bill brought in before the House.

The other point I wish to make is that it is good that this has brought within the purview of the CAG. I welcome this move. It is very important to see that accounts are audited by the highest authority of our country.

The other amendment is inclusion of Section 5. It proposed to include the term of office. It is proposed for five years, with an option of getting renomination for another term of five years. In that event, the suggestion made by me for inclusion of the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha and also the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the Punjab Assembly is relevant.

And, I fully agree with Mr. Prasanta Chatterjee that the mode of selection of eminent persons should be defined. Normally, eminent persons, who are close to the ruling party, always find place. Tomorrow, if the opposition party comes to power, again, eminent persons come close to the ruling party. So, there should be some mechanism.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: We will consider your case.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: If that is the case, I will recommend your name. No one is better than you. It will be a unanimous resolution from our House to include Mr. Narayanasamy. Sir, I thought that he is going to Puducherry as the Chief Minister. But, unfortunately, he is here.

So, Sir, my suggestion is that let there be a mechanism for selecting the three eminent persons. The Bill specifically mentioned the three names -- the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition in Lok Sabha and the Minister of Culture. In the same way, you can also define 'eminent persons' to be nominated in the Committee. Then, as I said, there is a need to bring all the places of importance, including historical, under one umbrella and let the proposed Committee head all those places of importance. Thank you. (Ends)

SHRI EKANATH K. THAKUR (MAHARASHTRA): Thank you, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to speak. I am here only to make one point. Everybody who is an Indian is proud of the glorious freedom struggle. As our friends have mentioned, the First War of Independence was in 1857. (CONTD. BY VP "3A)

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