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MP/2R/3.00

׮ ֵ (֟) : ֮֮ߵ ӡ פ Ͽ ָ 299 ׸Ù ָ - ֵ֮ פ օ 299 ׸Ù , , ֮ ֋, ֮ ֮ 299 ֋? ָ 299 ׸Ù , ֲָ ָ , - , ֲָ ֣ - , ֲָ ָ ̸֕ , ָ ֮

, ָ ׻ , ֮ ߱ ״׮Ù , 㴲և ָ ָ֮ , ߱ ״׮Ù , ֤ ָָ , ָ 㴲և ׻֋ ֲ ֯ ֟ ֙ ֙ ֙ , ֮֯ ׻֋ ֋? 40,000 ׻ , ֵ֟ ָ 40,000 ׻ .և.. ֮ , ױ ֵ , ִ , - ߔ ? ׻֋? ָ ֓־ ׻֋? .և.. ֮֓ ׻֋ ֮֟ ֮֓ ׻֋? ָ , ֮ ָ ? ֮ ܵ ֜և ? ִ֠ , ֻܵ ׻ ֮֜ ״׻֙ , -״׻֙ , خ ֤ ִ ? ֤ ֙ , ִֻ ֲָ և ָ ױ ָ֮ ߅ ָ֮ ָ , ֲָ ֤ , ֲָ ֲ ֟ , ָ ӡֵֻ, , ֕ , ׮֮ ־ , ֛ ֮ ֮ , 㴲և ֮ , ָ ֮ ָ .ִ ׿ ָ ָ ֛ , ׮ֻ֮ ׿ ׻֋ ָ ָ ָ֟ , ӡֵֻ ӡֵֻ ֣ , ֮֕ן ֮֕ן ׻֋ ֓֯ ֟ , ׮ ֟ ִ ָ ִ , ֲֻ֟ ߬ ֟ , ׻ ֵ ֋, ׻֋ , , ׌ ־ֿ ֮֟ ־ֿ ? ָ ֮֟ , ֮֟ , ֻ ӡ .և.. , ֲ , ֯ ֮֟ ׻֋ ִ ꅠ ֮֓ ׻֋ ֮ ֛ ֋, ֟ ͅ ֮֟ ֓ ֟ , ֮ ֮֓ ׿ֿ , ָ ׻֋ ִԤֵ ֙ , ֙ ֙ ֣-֣ ܾß ׻ , ױ , -״׻֙ , ܾ֮ ֋, ֋ ßֻ ֋, - ֋ ִ ?

־ ӡֵֻ ־ ֯ ֮ , סֵ ׻֋, خ ̸֕ Ӥ ָ ֙ ֙ ֋ ָ ֡ , ָ֮ ӟ ֋ ֤ ֓ ֤ ו פ ֙ ֙ , ֙ ֤ ٻִֵ Ӥ ֋ ֓ ֿ߮ ևՅ ? .. ָ ֟ , ֮ ֕ ׻ֵ, ֛ ֮ ָ ֋, ֛ ֋, ֋ ֣-֣ Ù , כ, ֯ , ֈ , և ״׮Ù , ִ֮ ™ן ־֮ ֲ ֙ ֙, ֲ ֋ ֓ ꅠ ֮ , ֮֟ ֻ֮ ׻֋, ׻֋ - ֮ , և ֮֕ן ו֋ ֣ ֣ ֲ ܾß ו֮֟ ӡ , .և.. , ֮ ֮֟ , ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

(2 / ָ )

ASC-RG/3.05/2S

פ ס־ (׿ִ ֻ) : ֳ֯ן , ֤õ ֓ԋ ָ ִֻ֮ Ӆ ָ - ֲ , ֣ ؓ֟ ִֻ֮ ֮֮ ֮֮ ֮ ֮֮ ׻֋ ֵָ ' ֮, ִֻ֮ ֮, ֮ ֤ , ֮ ֮օ' ֟ ׻֋ ֤֟ , ֕ ָ כ ֓ , ָ ִֵ ־ , ֯ ָ֮ ִ֟ , ׻֋ ֯ ֟ ָ ָ ֟ , ֤ ִֵ օ ׾ֵ ָ ә ֮ օ , ׮ֵ֟ ֟ ָ և ֻ ִֻ֮ , ֻ ׮ֵ֟ ָ ֻ , ׌ֵӅ ָ ׮ִԻ ֯ӛ ו , ׻֋ ֤ ֵ ִֵ ו ֮ ׻ֵ ׌ Ӥ ֋ ָ ָ ׮ ֋ ֮ ֟Ի֯ ֋ ֬ ֋ , ֬ ֺ פ ׌ ׮ֵ֟ ָ ־ ֟ , ֲ ֠ ׌ ӟ ֲֻ ֣ ӟ ֣ ֻ Ͽ ָ, ִֵ ֓ ֣ ֳָ ֤ ֵ ֳָ ֛և, և-և ߓ ֛և ׮ֵ֟ ֮֓ ߅ , ֲ ß֮ ו ֵ , ̴֮ ָ ֣ ָ և פ ׮ֵ֟ ֮֓ ָ ָ ֟ , ֟ ֮߮ ָ ִ ָ, ֲָ ֟ Ӥ ֲָ ׻ פ ֤֟ , ֛ ָ, ָ Ϭִ֮ӡ ß֮ ׮ֵ ֲ ֛ ִ׸֟ , ֲ ß֮ Ϭִ֮ӡ ֟ , - ְ ֮֕ ֟ ֟ ֲ ײָ Ϭִ֮ӡ , ֲ ֮ ׿ֿ ן ִõ ׮ִԻ ' ' ֟ ß֮ ֕ ָ ־ ָ , ָ ן ָ ֲ ָ֓ ִ֟ ֲ ׌ֵ ׮ֵ֟ ָ ־ , ֲ ָ ִ֮֓ ֵԤ ꟴ ֵԤ ֟ , ־ ֬ ׻֋ ֮ ֣ ֵ ־ ֬ , ׻֋ ִֻ ֱ (2T/NB ָ ֿ:)

ASC-TDB/NB/2T/3.10

פ ס־ (֟) : ֳ֯ן , ו ̸ , ֕ So, I am not standing here to blame one or the other because that does not serve the purpose. ֲ ־ ֱ ־ , ֲ ӟ , , ֤ ֮ ָ ָ ̸֕ ײֻ ֕ National Security Advisor ֟ ו , ֮ ә ִ ֛ ӳ߸ ֮ؓ֟֕ ֟ ֟ ӳ߸ ִ ָָ ׸ֻ ߅ ? this is a design for something more serious. , ו ֲֻ֟ this is the tip of the iceberg. - ֲֻ֟ ֤ ֮ ֯ ָ ß֮ atomic installations, scientific areas, economical base , ָ Icon ֟ , ָ ִֻ ֤ ӳ߸ ֟ ׻֋ ָָ, ֙ ָָ , ֲ ٻִֵ ֛ ֟ , ֲ ׾ ָָ , , ִ ֕ ־ֻ ֟ ָָ, ָָ ײֻ ָָ ֤֟ ֲֻ ָ ִ ֤֟ ֲֻ , ָ : ֟ unfortunately, Sir, when we talk about this Parliament; or the Lok Sabha, we need to be a little more tolerant, and, especially, this House, Sir. But, what has become is, as if all these blasts have become so routine that a blast takes place at one place or the other, the hon. Home Minister of whichever Government comes, gives the reply. We discuss here, the matter ends till unfortunately, God forbid, there is a next blast. I personally feel that the matter needs to be addressed in a more serious manner. And, that is why, Sir, I just want to touch upon -- I am not trying to join issues here -- that when we left behind the discussion on the Mumbai bomb blast and we started taking some other issue, can you imagine a 70-year old lady sitting in Mumbai, who lost her children, wanting to see what the Parliament is going to debate? Instead of that, for whatever be the reason, we started discussion on some other issue. I am not getting into why it was there, at this point of time. Yes, I had asked this question that day as to what was the compulsion. Can you imagine how we have alienated people from the mainstream, and without the support of the people, we cannot fight terror -- I definitely agree with what Nirmalaji said -- only through the governmental machinery. Sir, this is where I thought that this issue needs to be discussed in a much more serious manner than, perhaps, it is being discussed. Sir, do we realise... Sir, I will just take two or two-and-a-half minutes.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You observed my finger going near the bell!

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, before it goes near the bell, I am conscious about it. Sir, do we realise that a mafia network is running a parallel government? I am not talking about just a mafia network. A parallel government is run by the mafia network! (Contd. by kgg/2u)

kgg/2u/3.15

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI (contd.): Sir, since I have mentioned this, I would like to read one line from what the Vohra Committee report says, I am not saying this--because terror, whether it is across the border or from wherever it is, terror cannot take place until and unless there are local mafias. It does not matter which community they belong to, they are terrorists. And, if they are supporting the terrorists, then the mafia system, the mafia network is equally involved.

With your permission, I just would like to read 3-4 lines from the Vohra Committee report. It says, "The DIB has stated that the network of mafia is virtually running a parallel Government, pushing the State apparatus to irrelevance. It is thus the most immediate necessity that an institution be established to effectively deal with this menace. No machinery, to my knowledge, till this day, has been established." Sir, again I would like to read the last two lines. Talking about again the bomb blasts, the Bombay blasts case in 1993 -- at that time it was Bombay, so it is Bombay here, Joshiji will pardon me, it says and I quote, "The bomb blasts case and the communal riots in Surat and Ahmedabad have demonstrated how the Indian underworld is exploited by ISI and the latter's network in UAE to sabotage the entire Indian machinery." The reason why I am talking about this is, after the Vohra Committee report came in--I salute my late friend Shri Rajesh Pilot, who had the courage to lay that on the Table of the House and that is why we could discuss it. Sir, I went to the Supreme Court. I wanted to know who those mafias are, because it also says that these mafias come and occupy * (Interruptions) That is why I went to the Supreme Court because I wanted to know... (Interruptions) I am reading from the Vohra Committee report.

SHRI PENUMALLI MADHU: *

-----------------------------------

* Not recorded

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Though it is in the report, it should be removed from the proceedings. (Interruptions) That is removed.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Since he has challenged me, I am reading from the Vohra Committee report. "In certain States like", I do not want to read the name of the States, "these gangs enjoy the patronage of local level politicians, cutting across party-lines and protection of the Government functionary. Some political leader becomes the leader of these gangs, armed Senas and over the years, get themselves elected to local bodies, State Assemblies, and national Parliament."

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is a general comment.

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Sir, I am just reading from the Vohra Committee report. Sir, I am a responsible Member of Parliament and I know. What I am trying to say is, I went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court in their judgment mentioned that there has to be a high-level committee to monitor not only the Vohra Committee recommendations, to make sure that these kinds of incidents do not take place ever in India.

Sir, I wrote letters to the various Governments including the NDA Government. I have no hesitation in saying that. The last letter I wrote was in 2004 to the hon. Home Minister, Shri Shivrajji, mentioning that this is the Supreme Court order, have you implemented it or not. To the best of my knowledge, till date, this order of the hon. Supreme Court has not been implemented. I would plead to the hon. Minister, during his reply give us some assurance. Otherwise, what will happen? Blast here, blast there, we are taken as a soft State and again we will be unfortunately discussing this. Sir, in conclusion, I will tell you, my hon. colleague mentioned....

(contd. by hms/2w)

2w/HMS-KLS/3.20

פ ס־ (֟) : ֮ ̟֕ , ֤֟ ׿ָ , ָ ֋, ֟

ָ, ָ ֋ ֡ , ֱ ֱ ֤ ֟ , conclude օ -

" ֋, ִ ,

֤ ֋, ̸֕ ,

֣ ֤ ֟ ֻ, ß,

ײ֔ ֋, ֱ "

(ִ֯)

SHRIMATI HEMA MALINI (NOMINATED): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. Being a Mumbaikar myself, I am very emotionally involved because it is my city, which is affected. So, I would like to let you all know what I feel about this tragedy.

(The Vice-Chairman (Shri Dinesh Trivedi) in the Chair)

We never seem to learn from past experiences. This is a sad fact that has emerged after the recent bomb blasts on the Mumbai locals that went off with so much precision. These serial blasts have caused immense harm to human life and property. While much tall talk is going on about the great resilience of the Mumbaikars and all the TV channels vied with each other to be first one on the scene of the disaster, is anyone bothering to condemn our security systems that have let us down yet again so miserably? Is anyone sparing a thought to the hundreds that have lost their only breadwinners or to those many young lives who were just on the threshold of their career?

Why is it that Mumbai, a city that literally is the business and economic hub of our country, repeatedly attacked, a city that is so culturally rich, so full of achievers like Ratan Tata and Aditya Birla, famous film personalities, eminent sports personalities, successful business houses, such a cosmopolitan loving city that throws open its boundaries to everyone? Why is it that when it comes to situations like this, nothing is done to prevent such tragedies from happening? A city that prides itself on hard work, Mumbaikars are forced to pick up the threads and resume their lives. Do people understand how much effort is required to go on with life in the aftermath of such a tragedy? It is true that many concerned people have come forward with contributions and donations. I am myself going to perform in a fundraiser to help the victims. But will all this bring back the lost lives? Will it alleviate the terrible loss suffered by the surviving family members? Is it going to lessen the trauma that will haunt them all their lives?

It is not that India is a lone country to be thus targeted by these subhuman terrorists who have no regard for human life. Look at the United States. After 9/11, they have consciously spruced up their security and taking good care that unwanted elements with harmful intentions do not enter their country. Should we not have taken a cue from them? The newspapers, both yesterday and today, are full of the number of tourists of different nationalities who have simply melted into our country and cannot be traced. Pakistani and Bangladeshi nationals top the list. What is our security system doing about this? Some of these may have been responsible for the blasts in Mumbai. Is it not the Government's duty to ferret out these possible anti-social elements and throw them out of our country? (Contd by 2x)

-KLS-SSS-PSV/2X/3.25

SHRIMATI HEMA MALINI (CONTD.): There are reports that the Maharashtra State Police force was alerted about the possible terror attacks. In spite of this warning the terror attackers have not been arrested as was done in the case of the RSS office at Nagpur. There is total lack of intelligence sharing. Even now, going by the revelation of some of the arrested terrorists, one likely target is some of the vital installations like the BARC. The Maharashtra Government was spending sleepless nights to prevent a disaster waiting to happen. In all developed countries, they have CCTV and other advanced technologies in trains and railway stations. The State Government could have taken preventive measures. At least now the Railway Ministry should immediately install CCTV in all stations and post security personnel in trains equipped in the communication system. There are reports that the DG, Maharashtra Police and the RPF are blaming each other trying to fix the responsibility for taking preventive action. This will not satisfy the people of Mumbai. The only solution is to bring back POTA or enact another legislation in its place to deal with terrorism more firmly. The office of claim set up by the Railway authorities is in Churchgate. It is a great inconvenience for people to commute. Similar offices should be set up in Bandra and Borivali Station to help the families of those killed and wounded. Should not a country like ours which shares boundaries with so many nations on all sides see to it that we are not thought of as vulnerable and easy targets? Our existing security systems have allowed the Mumbai blasts to happen. Let there not be any more laxity. Terrorists are people with no hearts. They do not care for innocent human lives. Let us teach them a lesson they will not forget in a hurry. Let us all join together, burying all our differences and rise as one nation to deal with situations like this. Let there be no more lives lost in meaningless bomb blasts where the perpetrators are allowed to get away with their misdeeds. Let us reach out to all those victimised. Let us pay a tribute to those who have died and we can do this by seeing to it that we prevent such tragedies from happening in the future. (Ends)

׾ֵ֕ 0 (ָ™) : , ֮ ׻֋ ֯ ֮־֤

, ־ԯϣִ ֤֟ ׿ָ ֳ և, ֓ ֮ ֨ӕ׻ ׸ָ ֲ ֣ ־֮ ֌ 㴲և ִִ ֮֟ ן ֳָ ֌ , ו֮ ֤ ֤ ִ֮ ֤ ״ֻ ִֵ ߅ - ֟פ ֤ ִ פ 㴲և ִֻ - ִֻ 㴲ևԅ

, ֕ , ֲ ן ٣ ߜ ֕ ֤ ֳֵߟ , ן, ִ ָ ֣ ֻ -֤ ֟ 㴲և ֮֟ ֮֓ ׻֋ ֮ - ׸ֵ פօ ו֮֟ ׻י ֙ , ֻ֮ ֙ ߕֻ̮ ֙, ֟ ֮ ֮ ָ ָ ֯ , ָ ꌵ׸ʹ ꌵ׸ʹ ֤֟ ׾ ֮ ֟ , ָ ָ ָ ִ֮ (2 և/000 ָ ֿ:)

2Y/klg-nbr/3.30

׾ֵ֕ . (֟) : ֟ ו ׌ ֤ , ׯ֟֕ ״֡ , ו֮ ָ ִ ֟ , ו֮ ִ ֮ , ָ™ ܵ ӡ ו֮ ׿ ֟ ֓ ֵ֜ , וִ , ûִ , ָ™ ߮ ״֮ ß֮ ֱ , ִִ -ߜ , ? ߤ ָ օ , ֤ ֺ , ָ ׻֋ ֲ ָ Ӳ׬֟ , ֻܵ ָ ׿ ,

, Ӳև ֤ , ָ ׾ִָ֮֕ ָ ״׮Ù ׿־ָ֕ י ֮־֤ ָ™ ָָ , ָ֮ ָ֮ , ָ™ әߕ ׾ֳ ִ ֵօ Ӳև ׻ ׾֤ ֮ ֲ ֮ ׻ ֣ , ָ ֻ פ Ӳև ׻ ֻ֟ , ֮ ֛ ֻ Ӳև ׻ և ? ָ , ִ , ߓ ָߋ , ִ-׮ֿ֮ , ו ֕ ָ-ָ ֮ ֓ ־֕ ֻ ָ ׾ָ֓ ־ֿ և ? ָ әߕ , ֕ ?

, ֤֟ , ׮ִԻ ו ֮ ֵ֛ ? ׌ , ָ ֻ ִ ֮֟ ִ ֮֟ , ָ ֟ , ָ ָ Ϭִ֮ӡ þֵ ֟ ֵ֟ ֤֟ ָ ֛ ֮֯ ֻ ָ Ӥ ׻ֱٮֵ ֲ ֋ ֔ և, ß֮ ָ , ֲ ׿ ֜ ׻֋ ֤֟ ׌, ֮ ָ ָ בָ ׻֋ ָ 㯟ָ֓ ã , ָ ׬ ϳ־ , ֲ֕ , ֯ ֮ ֮ ־ֿ

, ֲ Ӳև ׻ ֟ , Ӳև ׻ ֮ ֕֙ , ָ ֮ ꛮԇ ? Ӳև, ָ , ָ ֙ , ָ ֙ߕ օ ָ ִ ָ , ִ בָ , ו , և-֕ , ׻֋ Ӳև ׻ ׾ֿ ֕֙ ־ֿ ָ ֕ ׻ ? ָ ꯙ ־ֿ , , ïߛ ָ , , ïߛ - , , -և , , ֬׮ ףֵָ ֲ ָ֬ ׻ ߔ , ָ ? כ ֻ ֟ , ֟ ָ ֤֟ ֲ֕ ֯ ֲֻ , Ӳև ׻ ׬ ֕֙ , ׬ ףֵָ ꅠ 2/ ָ

AKA-USY/2Z/3:35

׾ֵ֕ 0 (֟) : 㴲և ֕ 58 ָ ֋ , ֟ ָ ׾ָ֓ 㴲և ָ әֻ֮ ֙ ֻ֯ ֋ 㴲և ו ָ ֲ֤ , ָ ֟-֟ , ׻֋ 㴲և ׻֋ ևי ֛ ֲ 㴲և ׻֋ ևי ֛ , ֲ ֟ ֟ ֋ꅠ 1993 ִ-Ù , ֟ߕ ִ֮ ֋ , ׸ ֕ Ù

׾ñ , ֤ 24 ә Ӥ ־ã ױ ֙ ָ פ, ׻֋ ׬׸ , ԓ׸ ӡ ֬և , ׳֮֮ օ ֯ ֮ ֲ Ӥ ִ-Ù , Ù ֻ , ֟ , ָ ׾ָ֯ߟ 㴲և ֮֟ ָ פ ִ ָ և ״ֻ ֵ֟ ׮֛ Ӥ ֵ ֟־ָ

֟ ֯ ִ֮ ֮ ֲ-ֲ 㴲և Ͽ ֟ , ֲ-ֲ ֱ ٣ ׯ֙ פ ֟ ָ ׾ָ֓ 㴲և - ߕ ָ ׾ָ֓ ׻֋ ״׮Ù ֟ ָ ׾ֿ ֮ , ׾ֿ ֕֙ ָ™ ָָ ֕֙ , ֟ þֵ ָ ׾ָ֓ , ָ ָ ֛

㴲և ״֡ ֟ ׻ , ֮ ֟ ִ֯ , ׬ ִֵ օ ֟ ָ ß :-

ֲ , ֛և

ָ Ӭ ֻ״ֻ֮ ֟ ,

ִ ָ ׮ֵ ̴

ִ ָ ֲ ָ֟ ֮ ֟

, ֯ ֳָ ֮֯ ִֵ פօ

(ִ֯)

׿š ֵָ (ײָ) : ֳ֬ , ӟ ӳ߸, Ӿֿ߻ ֣-֣ ֮ؓ֟֕ ׾ֵ ָ ֕ ֤ ׾ָ֓ , ֪ׯ ֟ ֙֋ 㴲և ִ, ֲꌙ 㴲և ִ , ן Ԡ ֤ ָ ӳ߸ ׾ָ֓ , , ִ ֙֋ ָ ָ ִ ֙ ֤ ֤ ׸ָ ߅ ֤ ׸ָ ִ , ִ ֤ ָ ־ã ױ ׾ֳ Ͽ ֵ օ 㴲և ֲ ִ , 㴲և ׻ ֲ 㴲և Ͽ֮ ֻ֮֯ ִ֮ ֵ ֲ ֤ ׸ָ ִ , , Ӥ, - ־֮֬ , ֟ , ֕

("3a/sch' ָ ָ)

SCH/3.40/3A

׿š ֵָ (֟): ֮֟ ׻֋ ָָ ׻֋ օ 㴲և ִ ֤ ָ ָ ֋ , ָָ ֮֟ ߅ 㴲և ֙ ֟ ֱ և ו ָ ִ ֲֻ , ߾֮ Ԯ , ָ ִ פ ߾֮ 韵 ֓և ׮ֵ ֿ ֻ ß 㴲և ֻ֟ ֮ ֵ ָ ײ֟ פ , ָ ԙ ԙ ֲֻ ׻֋ ָ ָ , ָָ, ׻ ֮ ֲ ֕ ֟ ָ ׾ָ֓ ֺ ֜

ֳ֬ , ִ ֻ ߴ ״֟ פ ֟ ן׾׬ֵ ָ ׾ָ֓ , ׾ָ֓ ֛ Ͼ֤ ֚ - ָ ? ־־֤ ׌ֵ ָ ִ ? ֌ֻ־֤ ֚ ׾ֿ ? ׌ֵ ׾ßָ ? - ? ׾ßָ ָ - ֤־ ֵ ? ֲ ֳ ׾ֵ ָ ׾ָ֓ ֳ ִõֆ ׮֯֙ ϵ ֋, ֳ ָ ־ã ֳ ־ã֋ ß ֕ ™ ִ֮ ־ֻ ֮ ֛

, ֟ ֮ ֤ ׸ָ ָ ָ, ן׮׬ ֳ ָ ָ 㴲և ԙ ֲ ֛ ־׵ ָ ָ ָ օ ן׮׬ ֳ ִ֬ ֟ ֮ ٣ ־ã ָָ ָ ֮, ֟ օ ָ , ו ָָ ֲ ֺ ָ-ָ ֮֋ כָ ׻֋, ־ã ָָ ׻֋ ֮և ָָ ָ ׾ָ֓

ֳ֬ , ָ ӡ ָ֮ , ָ֮ ֲ ׻֋ ϵ ָ֮ ֲ ֮ ֵ㌟ פ ָָ ֵԯ ָ , ָ֮ פ ָָ ִד֟ ָ , ־ ֮ ֋, ׻֋ ָ֮ ֲ ϵ Ͼ֤ ֚ ־־֤ ֚ ٣ ֤ ֯ , ָָ ָ֮ ? כ׻ֿ ׻֋ ֟ ׻֋ ָָ ֱ֟ և ? ָָ ã֮ ִ ԟ: ־ ֟ ֮ ִ ? ֕ ָ Ͼ֤ ֚ ָ ֚, ָ ן׾׬ֵ ׻֯ , ֮ և ? 3B/MCM ָ ָ

MCM-PK/3B/3-45

׿š ֵָ (֟) : ָ֮ ־ֻ ָ ֟ ָָ ֮ ֮և ֕ ָָ ֛ ָ ӵ㌟ ָ֮ ? ֕ ߓ ֳ ֕ ӵ㌟ ָ֮ ? á ֣ ו֟ ׻֋ ׻ , 000 ֮ , ӟִ֕ פ ֵ , ֕ ׻ ו֟ ָָ ֮ ֮և ? ־֮ ׾ֿ ָ خ ָָ ֮ ֮և ? ָ ־ֻ , , ו֮ ָ ָָ ־ֲ , ָָ ־ֲ ס ס ֟֓ߟ ß ֤ ֻ , ֻ ׻ ֤֟ ֲֻ , ֟֓ߟ ֵָ , , כ ֮ օ ו֮ ß , ׾ָ֓ ßָ ָ ֲֻ ֤ ֵ , ֤ ™ ܵ ָ ״׻֟ ֵֿ֯ ֵָ ִ֮ ִ֯ օ ֵֿ֯ ֵָ ֌ֻ־פ ֜ ߓ ִ ֕ ֵ ִ ֙֋ - ֟ , ӑ ֣ ִ ׻֋ ־ֻ Ͼ֤ ֚ , ־־֤ ֚ , ׮ֲ֙ -ָ , ֌ֻ־֤ ֚ , ׾ָ֓ ßָ ָ ֮֟ ִ֕ ֤֮ ß , ָ , ֛ , ֲֻ ׻֋ ׾ָ֓ ׌ ׾ ß ׾ָ֓ ßָ ָ ִ , ֌ֻ־֤ ׸ ֟ ן׾׬ֵ ֻ ׸֕ , ו֮ ׾֤ ִ , ׾ ן ß ֹ , ϳ־ ֮֟ ֕ ׾ֵ ָ ָָ ӳ߸ ֮ ָ ӓָ ־ã, ָ ױ ׾ֳ, ו֮֟ Ӥß ֋ ֟ ָָ ׻֋ ߅ ֟, ӟ ֟֓ߟ ß ֮֜ ֺ , Ӥ ֚ , ׾ָ֓ ßָ ָ ן׾׬ֵ , ׾ ֋ ָ ӡ ָ ָָ ֳֳֻև ֙ ꅠ ָָ ֳֳֻև ֙ - , ָָ ֳֳֻև ֙ ֮ ן ֳ ָָ ֳֳֻև ֙ ֮ פ ꅠ ֤ ϟ ָָ ֳֳֻև ֙ ӑߵ ֕ ״ֻ ־ã ָ ִ օ ô֟ , Ӥ ָ ׿ֿ , , ־֮ ֮ ߸ פև ָ ߸ ״ֻ , ׻֋ ֛ ôָߵ Ӆ ֻ ӡ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ օ Ӡ ֤ ׸ָ ֟ ־֮ ֮ ׸ פ֮ ִ օ ָ ָ ־֮ , ߸ ֮ ߸ פ֮ ִ , ֲ ֻ ֤ á Ϭ֮ ӡ ꅠ ֙ ֤ ֛ և, ֮ ִ֯ օ ֌ ֵֻ ־֮ ֮ ׻֋ ïֻ֟ ֋ (3C ָ ֿ:)

PB-SC/3C/3.50
׿š ֵָ (֟) : ïֻ֟ ֲ ֻ ֤ á ӓ, ֵֻ ־֮ - ֵ֟ ֵ - ָ ּ Ӭ ߅ ֣  ׻֋ ֲ ֵ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֯ ִ֮ ã֟ ׮ ֻ ָ ֋ ֲ ׮ ׻֋ ֛ ݵ פ ָ ־֮ , ־ã ֋, á ו֟ פ ֋ ֮ Ծֵָ֯ , Ծֵָ֯ ִ ֻ - , ׻֋ ֛ ݵ פ ָ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֕ ָ ִ֮ ֛ 껵 օ ־֮ ֻ ֤ á ߲ ָ օ ־֮ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ  ִ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ  ִ օ ֲ ׮š, ֲ ϟ, Ծֵָ֯֟ Ծֵָ֯֟ ־ֲ ָ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֮ ִ օ , ֕ ӡ , ֕ Ϭ֮ ӡ ָ ׾ֿ ־ֲ֤ ו ׌ֵ , (ִֵ ә) ׌ֵ ֲֻ ׻֋ ׮׿֟ ֮֋, ֿ , ߟָ ֮ ־ָ ֮ ֵ֮ ֋ ֻ ߸ ָ ֮ ״ֻ ׻ ֻ ָ ֕ - ִֻ֟ ״ ָ, ֙ߵ , ָ , ֲֻ ֮֯ ә ֕ , פ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ , ֲ ֣ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (TAMIL NADU): Thank you very much, Sir, for giving me this opportunity.

"Can POTA achieve what TADA could not?" This was the title of an article which I penned, and it was published in The Hindu dated 1st January, 2002.

Sir, the idea behind the article was, at the time when introduction of POTA was hardly discussed by the Houses of Parliament, I felt that POTA was not required, because its earlier enactment called 'TADA' was a total failure. There were about 16,500 cases booked under TADA, of which less than 400 ended in conviction. So, when TADA, which was brought in to contain terrorism, could not achieve its objects, what was the necessity of bringing another enactment called 'POTA' which is, in fact, a re-birth or reincarnation of TADA? This was exactly the question put by me.

Sir, in the State of Tamil Nadu, there were several cases tried under the TADA. Hon. Member, Dr. Malaisamy, is also aware of this because he was, for some time, the Home Secretary of the State during the time when TADA was ... (Interruptions)...

DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, at that time, everything was under tight control.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM : Yes; Yes; it was under very, very tight control. Sir, I can tell you and inform this House, how tight was it that under TADA, one Y. Ravichandran was prosecuted.

(Contd. by 3d/SKC)

3d/3.55/skc

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (CONTD.): At that time, his elder brother was a Member of this hon. House; his name is Vaiko. Vaiko's younger brother, Mr. Y. Ravichandran, was prosecuted under TADA, at the time when hon. Member was the Home Secretary, and ultimately...(interruptions)...

DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, may I clarify?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): I don't think you need to clarify anything. Kindly stick to the point...(interruptions)...

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: I am sticking to the point on terrorism, Sir...(interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You don't have more than five minutes. So, don't lose your time...(interruptions)...

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, I am sticking to the point on terrorism and on how TADA was used to terrorise politicians and their family members.

DR. K. MALAISAMY: You may go and ask Mr. Vaiko.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, Mr. Y. Ravichandran was ultimately acquitted of the TADA charges. So, what happened to the TADA charges? He was accused in a case along with LTTE men for killing an EPRLF leader called Padmanabha. Ultimately the case ended in acquittal. What was the purpose behind using TADA against a member of a political family?

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

DR. K. MALAISAMY: *

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, I named Ravichandran. Now, Vaiko is with them and I don't want to talk about Ravichandran...(interruptions)...

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Are you yielding?

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: No, Sir, I am not yielding.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding. Nothing else is going on record. Please, continue.

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, continue.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, POTA was introduced and under the Act, there were several prosecutions. Of course, in Tamil Nadu too, there were certain prosecutions.

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

DR. K. MALAISAMY: Sir, I have got a point of order...(interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: He has got a point of order. Let's listen to his point of order. Madam, would you please sit down? ...(interruptions)... Please, listen to him for a minute.

---------------------------------

* Not recorded.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: *

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA : *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Mr. Narayanasamy, I am going to ask him. Please, tell me under what rule it is. Under what rule does your point of order fall? What is the rule?

DR. K. MALAISAMY: That the case ended in acquittal is a different matter...(interruptions)...that is why he was prosecuted...(interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: There is no point of order. Please, carry on, Mr. Shunmugasundaram.

DR. K. MALAISAMY: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You have now got only three minutes. You are losing your time and nothing else is going on record. Please, carry on.
DR. K. MALAISAMY: *

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, you have to protect me. They are interfering...(interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I am protecting you. Nothing else is going on record. He didn't have any point of order.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, Mr. Ravichandran was ultimately acquitted of the false charges; that is what I wish to say. When POTA was introduced, it was equally misused in Tamil Nadu....(interruptions)... Mr. Ravichandran's elder brother was also prosecuted and he was also found not guilty. That POTA was misused is a fact known to everyone...(interruptions)...

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, another hon. Member said...(interruptions)..

---------------------------------

* Not recorded

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Will you, please, go beyond Tamil Nadu?...(interruptions)...Please, go beyond Tamil Nadu...(interruptions)..

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, I shall go beyond Tamil Nadu.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: He is going beyond Tamil Nadu now.

DR. K. MALAISAMY: *

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Kindly go beyond Tamil Nadu. We are talking about the Mumbai blasts here.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, now the suggestion is that there must be some other new enactment, something like POTA, something like TADA. Somebody said it may be called 'Kota'! It may be called 'Kota' or 'Bata'; whatever it may be, I am only suggesting that such Acts cannot be allowed to be misused by any person, and more so, to target political personalities. I am of the view that if somebody suggests that such an enactment must be brought in, it is only with an ulterior motive, to target politicians and political opponents. They say so only with this view. They view things with a tainted glass, when they say something like -- Madani was given a massage in his treatment of Siddha or Ayurveda....(interruptions)...

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM: Sir, this is as per Court...(interruptions).... As per Court orders, somebody is given treatment; the accused is not found guilty....(interruptions)... An accused person is given treatment as per Court orders, and the accused person is not an accused under TADA or POTA. He is an ordinary criminal.

SHRIMATI S.G. INDIRA: *

-----------------------------------------------------

* Not recorded. (Followed by 3e)

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