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-KGG/NBR-SC/2d/2.00.

DR. CHANDAN MITRA (CONTD.): If you don't like the name POTA, call it "KOTA" or anything else that you wish. But, I would, again, earnestly appeal to this Government that there is a need to strengthen anti-terrorist laws. I am sorry, Sir, I have a very bad cold today. So, please excuse me for this.

I would also like to draw the hon. Minister's attention to some serious lapses that have taken place from the Office of the National Security Adviser in the last seven or ten days. First, we had this alarming 'leak' from the NSA's office about Lashkar-e-Taiba's infiltration into our Air Force. This was subsequently denied by the Indian Air Force. And it appeared that the matter had blown over. But, now, I refer to a TV interview that was telecast on Sunday night in a channel in which the NSA has said that several of our nuclear installations are under threat from the Lshkar-e-Taiba. Sir, this is a very serious allegation. It is a matter of very serious concern. I want to know whether this kind of information belongs to the public domain. This is a very serious lapse on the part of the Government, I feel, and on the part of the NSA who have gone public with the information of this kind. I would like to know from the hon. Home Minister what steps the Government propose to take to try and plug loopholes of this nature. At the same time, what steps the Government is taking, because what he has said is extremely serious whether it is Air Force or Army we know subsequently...(time-bell)... I shall wind up very soon. Army is helping us in Jammu and Kashmir. Now, nuclear installations are under threat.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. P.J. KURIEN): Your throat is not good. So, conclude early.

DR. CHANDAN MITRA: Sir, I am just concluding. We have waited for three days. My throat was fine then. The problem has started in the last couple of days.

I think, there is also a need for a holistic approach in this entire issue. The hon. Home Minister is actually aware of the serious problem caused by the Maoist insurgency in parts of India. The hon. Prime Minister has said that this is the biggest security threat. I wish to draw his attention that the very day the hon. Home Minister was himself discussing the matter with the Chief Minister of Chhattisgarh, in Delhi, a tribal policy unveiled by his Cabinet colleague talked about treating Maoists as disturbed tribals and called for a more humane policy and attacked the whole system of Salwa Judum which is being practised in Chattisgarh. I appeal to the hon. Home Minister, can the Government not better coordinate so that one message goes out instead of multiplicity of contradictory messages about our approach to terrorism-related issues?

Finally, the last point I would like to make is this. In the past also I had, on this issue, appealed to the Government to consider adequate legislation to declare certain offences as federal crimes. As a part of the system of strengthening the anti-terror laws, I again, appeal to the hon. Home Minister and the Government to consider bringing terrorism in books as a federal crime so that we are better able to handle the matter. Thank you. (Ends)

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, I am deeply conscious of your kind dispensation in permitting me to speak on this issue of national importance. Very much has been said. And, I think, very relevant things have been said. I resist the temptation of repeating them. But, I will only submit this thing that attack on Mumbai is symptomatic. Attack on Mumbai is attack not only on the mega polis, but it is an attack on the country, as attack on the New York was attack on the USA. (CONTD. BY USY "2E")

-NBR-USY/2E/2.00

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): And, it has to be taken up in that perspective. Mumbai is Shanghai of India; Mumbai is the Industrial Capital of India; Mumbai is the Bollywood centre. Mumbai is so much to us. And, this is not the first attack. That is to be thought of. Mumbai has suffered so many times. It is a wounded city now. I won't pretend to claim who are at fault. But people are at fault, agencies are at fault, and somebody has to be accountable for that. On 12th March, 1993 don Dawood and Company had first time attacked Mumbai and there were 13 blasts. I need not repeat what a holocaust it was. It was as worse as a tsunami curse. The second attack was 2nd December, 2002; the third one was on 06th December, 2002; 4th attack was on 05th August, 2003; and, now, the last one had come on 11th July, 2006. May God ensure, or may Government ensure that this should be the last one. Our fear is there may be more of that also. I won't say who has failed; it is for the Government to decide whether the Central Government has failed; whether the State Government has failed; whether the intelligence has failed; whether the soft underbelly of law and order set up has been exposed. But some failure has been somewhere; there is no doubt about it. I would like to submit that this is not a law and order situation, it is an attack on the sovereignty, integrity, unity and solidarity of the country. It has to be dealt that way. I can raise one question before this august House -- I think, all will agree with me -- which place is safe in the country? If Mumbai is not safe, is Delhi safe; is Chennai safe; is Calcutta safe? Which place is safe? We have suffered attacks everywhere. No train, no bus, no temple, no place is safe. Even '7 Race Course' is not safe, in which on 27th of this month a high drama took place. Two young women and a drunken man breached the security. Two Prime Ministers have fallen victims to the assassins' bullets. The Lal Chowk, the Dal Lake, Gulmarg, Sonmarg, the sanctum sanctorum of our democracy, that is, the Parliament was attacked on 13th December, 2001. The Ram Mandir at Ayodhya was attacked on 5th July, 2005; the Akshardham Temple was attacked on 24th September, 2002; the Sankatmochan Temple was attacked on 03rd March, 2006. The Lal Quila is also not safe. The Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore was attacked on 28th December, 2005. The Jama Masjid was also not spared. In Delhi, on the eve of Diwali, on 29th October, 2003, there were blasts. The R.S.S. Headquarters at Nagpur was attacked on 1st June, 2006. There are innumerable such incidents. In the saffron fields of the J&K, everyday there is a blast and there is a smell of gunpowder. When will this dahshatgiri stop? As was quoted very rightly, the Security Advisor to the country has said, "The evidence with New Delhi of Pakistani role was stronger than what Washington has post-9/11". This is the exact verbatim statement of a very, very responsible and very experienced intelligence man. Now, our docks are on target; our dams are on target. And, as pointed out by Dr. Chandan Mitra, even our nukes are not safe. What is safe in the country? And, who will make them safe? I don't want to accuse anyone. But something has to be done in this context. As far as overall terror scenario is concerned, we have five monsters which are attacking us. (Contd. by 2f -- VP)

-USY/VP-MP/2.05/2F

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): One is Pakistan-sponsored terrorism. We call it proxy war and that comes from the North. That is from across the border and it is happening daily. This is the biggest terror; terror from the North. And, a genocide is taking place. A particular class is being massacred. Training camps, arms, Fidayeen, Jehadis are there. There is terrorist infiltration into the country. And the figures given by the hon. Home Minister show that during 2005, terrorist infiltration was 92. During this year, that is, 2006, so far, terrorist infiltration is 299; this is three times more and this is what you have captured. Ten times more must be there, whom we have not been able to detect. Casualties are startling. I will just mention two or three figures and I won't take more of your time, Sir. From 1994 to June 2005, 19,662 civilians -- they are authentic figures of casualties -- and 7320 security personnel were there. 30,000 AK 47 rifles, 60,000 grenades and tonnes of RDX have been recovered. Now, they say they are having 82 MM mortars. This is * . It is one front which the country has to face.

Another front is from the East. I will call it the porous border of Bangladesh infiltration. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: Sir, I object to this. To say * is extremely wrong and dangerous. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: There is some terrorism. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: We should not talk of * terrorism. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: No; I am not talking. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: Don't talk of * . ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: * is daily written in newspapers. ...(Interruptions)... It is a universal phenomenon. ...(Interruptions)... You are raising the Muslim question. ...(Interruptions)... I have not raised the Muslim question. ...(Interruptions)...

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ָ ָ ..(־֮֬)..

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : چئیرمینسر،۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: We are not following the newspapers. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: I am addressing the Chair. ...(Interruptions).. He has given a wrong... ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Siddiqui, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... I will deal with it. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Siddiqui, please take your seat. ...(Interruptions)...

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : * ? ...(־֮֬)... * ֟ ? ...(־֮֬)...

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : اسکواسلامکآتنکوادکیوںکہاجارہاہے؟ ۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔ اسلامآتنکوادکےخلافہے،تواسکواسلامکآتنکوادکیوںکہاجاتاہے؟

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: Don't talk of religious terrorism. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Siddiqui, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: What will you call a Jehadi? ...(Interruptions)...What will you call a Fidayeen? ...(Interruptions)... What will you call terrorism across the border? ...(Interruptions)...Is it * ? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, I will deal with it. ...(Interruptions)... You sit down. ...(Interruptions)... No; no, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Please take your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Please take your seat. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Pilania, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Azmi, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

ִ ֻ ֳϾֻ : ָ, ֤֟ ִ օ ֤֟ ֟ ߅ ...(־֮֬)...

. ֮ ֿ ׯֻ׮ֵ : ָ֬ ֟ , ....(־֮֬)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN : Mr. Pilania, please take your seat. ...(Interruptions)...Mr. Siddiqui, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Who told you that? ...(Interruptions)... Sir, he raised the question many times . ...(Interruptions)... I have not spoken about it. . ...(Interruptions)...

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ûִ ֤֟ ӛ ...(־֮֬)...

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : اسلامآتنکوادکاکھنڈنکرتاہے۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Azmi, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... One minute. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Azmi, I will name you. ...(Interruptions).. Mr. Azmi, I will name you. Sit down. ...(Interruptions)...I would like to say that there is no * and there is no * . ...(Interruptions)... * is deleted. ...(Interruptions)... A terrorist is a terrorist. ...(Interruptions)...

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ָ, * ٻִֵ ֯ٻִֵ ? ...(־֮֬)....

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی: اس ٭ پارلیمنٹری ہے یاان۔پارلیمنٹری ہے؟۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN) : You keep quiet. ...(Interruptions)... I know how to deal with it. ...(Interruptions)... This is not the way. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I am grateful for your kindness. In Mumbai, when there was a holocaust, it was suspected that it was caused by LeT and SIMI. And, they are which kind of outfits, nobody knows it; what I mean is, who is sponsoring them, who is giving them funds, who is giving them arms or who is giving them training? If I take their names, they will say, I am talking of minoritism! I never talk of it. They are casting aspersions on the people of Mumbai. When the Government failed, ...(Interruptions)... When everybody raised, ...(Interruptions)... every citizen of Mumbai ...(Interruptions)...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.


֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ִֻ֮ ֤֟ ֟ , ִ ׻ֵ ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : کوئی بھی مسلمان یاہندوآتنکوادپھیلاتاہے،تواسکاناملیاجاتاہے۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Pilania, please conclude now. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Pilania, please conclude now. ...(Interruptions)... Mr. Pilania, please conclude now. ...(Interruptions)... You have taken enough time. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Sir, I will stop it when he stops. ...(Interruptions)...

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : Ӭ ֮ ָ, * ? ..(־֮֬).. ׻֋ ֵ, * ?

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : گاندھی جی کوکسنےمارا،کیاوہ ٭ ہے؟ ۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔ گوڈسےکےلئےکیاکہاگیا،کیاوہ ٭ ہے؟

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN : Mr. Azmi ..(Interruptions)..

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ֮֮֟ ִ ֮ ֵ ? ..(־֮֬)..

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی کیاسناتندھرمکودوشی ماناگیاہے؟ ۔۔۔۔مداخلت۔۔۔۔

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Why is he feeling so upset? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Pilania, please conclude. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: If you cast such aspersions, he will be upset. ...(Interruptions)... (Followed by PK/2G)

ASC-PK/2.10/2G

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Pan-Islamism is talked about daily...(Interruptions)...It always comes...(Interruptions)....Pan-Islamism is written in every newspaper.

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : ֟ ? ...(־֮֬)...

مولاناعبیداللہخاناعظمی : یہکیاباتہے؟

׾ֵ֮ יָ : , ...(־֮֬)..

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: Then, your terrorism is ...(Interruptions).. What did you do in Gujarat?...(Interruptions)..

ֳ֬ (... ׸֮) : ֯ ך, ֯ ך ..(־֮֬).. Only what Shri Pilania says will go on record. Nothing else will go on record....(Interruptions).. Only what Shri Pilania says will go on record. Nothing else will go on record...(Interruptions).. Now, Mr. Pilania, please conclude...(Interruptions).. Nothing will go on record other than what Mr. Pilania says...(Interruptions).. Please sit down. I will deal with it....(Interruptions)..

׾ֵ֮ יָ : *

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : *

ק :*

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. ..(Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : *

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record...(Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : *

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : *

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, take your seats...(Interruptions)...Mr. Katiyar, now take your seat...(Interruptions).. Mr. Azmi, please take your seat...(Interruptions)..

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : *

-----------------------------

*Not recorded.


THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Azmi, I will have to name you...(Interruptions).. I will have to name you if you do this..(Interruptions).. Sit down. Mr. Pilania...(Interruptions)..

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Sir, I am sorry, I would stop..(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, no, listen to me. You have taken much more time than what was allotted to you...(Interruptions)...

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: Sir, they have taken ...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, no, even otherwise,..(Interruptions).. you please conclude.

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: I will conclude, Sir, but the point is they have put their words into my mouth. I never said...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No, no...(Interruptions).. You please conclude...(Interruptions)..

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: No, one thing is to be decided...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You please conclude..(Interruptions).. Whatever decision I may take,..(Interruptions).. you conclude. You say what you want to say...(Interruptions)...As for decision, you don't interfere.

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: I will say one thing. The Pakistan...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Speak on the subject..

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: The proxy war from Pakistan, what would we call it; the proxy war from Bangladesh, what would we call it; Jehadis, what would we call them?..(Interruptions)...I never raised the question of Muslims or Hindus. It is they who talked of this. I never talked of Muslims or Hindus, because both are Indians. For both of them, Constitution is one; for both of them, country is one; for both of them, the President is one; and, for both of them, Parliament is one. They are dividing; we are not dividing. I will conclude by saying only one thing, Sir. We have to be careful about proxy war across the border from the North; we have to be careful about infiltration from Bangladesh; we have to be careful about internal disturbance of naxalism, which needs a very detailed analysis; and we have to be careful about insurgency which is there in seven North Eastern States. I will conclude by saying let us rise together, the Government, the people and everyone against terrorism, without caste, creed and without any difference.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): That is good.

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA:I will just invoke by saying, let us today think of 600 martyrs (Time-bell) who laid their lives at Kargil. Let us bow..(Interruptions).. our heads in their sacred memory. Let us remember Brigadier Usman who laid his life at the age of 30...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please wind up.

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA: You are talking of Muslims and Hindus. ..(Time-bell)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Vedprakash Goyal. (Followed by 2H/PB)

PB-NB/2H/2.15

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): And, let us rise to the occasion to make sacrifice for the ashes of our fathers, for the honour of our temples, for the glory of our Gods and for the security of this motherland which is above everything. And another operation, which is the need of the hour, I will say only this thing, an extraordinary situation requires extraordinary response. Let us stand united, and let there be not lack of will on the part of the Government as well as on the part of ...(Time-bell)... both Houses of Parliament. ...(Time-bell)... We stand united and we win. ...(Interruptions)... Thank you very much, Sir, for tolerating me for so long. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Thank you. Next speaker is, Mr. Vedprakash Goyal. Now, Goyalji, you should know my constraints. See, every hon. Member who is speaking has been allotted five minutes only. That is the position. Yet, I am allowing extra time to the Members. Why I am saying this is because there are fifteen Members who are yet to speak. Now, it would be good for all of us, if, without making me ring the bell, you could conclude within five minutes.

׾ֵ֮ יָ : Senior citizen ֳ ו֋

ֳ֬ : , I have only said it. It is up to the Members to observe it. I am only reminding you.

ֿ ֻ (ָ™) : ֳ֬ , ֯ ֟ ֮ օ ֤ 10 ֻ ֤ ֟ , ֟ ֻ ֟ , , þֳ־ ֟ , , ֟ ? ֯ ֛ ָ ֮֯ allow ֮ ָ ֟ , ־ֲ , ִܾܾ ֟ ֋Ӆ

ֳ֬ , ֕ ׾ֵ , ֻ Ӳև , Ӳև Ӥ ָ ֜ terrorism , ָ ֕ ֓ ֓ ֻ Ӳև ״֟ Ӳև ָ ֵ þֵ ֤ , ֤ , terrorist attack ֿ֤ߤ ־ פ , ָ war heroes ָ ָ-ָ Sion Hospital ֵ - ָ , ֣- ָ Sion Hospital 100 ָ , ֲ ֯ ߓ ï֙, ֻ ï֙, ï֙ , ֛ - ֮ ֟ , ײֻ ֙ Ù֮ ֻ - Sion Hospital, ֟ ֛-֛ dignitaries ֵֻ ֮ ֟ ӡ ֋, ֙ և, ֣ ָ ӡ ֋, ֋? ï֙ ֋, և ï֙ ֋, ָָ ïֻ֟ - Sion Hospital, וִ ֳ ָ ׾֬֋ ֲֻ , ל ׾֬֋ ֲֻ , ֋ ֋, ֮ ߱ ? ֯ ã֮ ָ ֟, ׾֬־֋ , ו֮ ֤ , ֯ ֋ ïֻ֟ ֻ 15 ״֮֙, ә, ә ָ ֯ ״ֻ ׻֋, ֓־ ֟ ֟ և, ֮֓

ֳ֬ , terrorism ׾ֵ , communal ֛ ֣ ֟ ֲ terrorism ֟ ֟ , ֠ communal ׾ֵ ֮ פ ֟ , ֲ communal ׾ֵ ֯ ֋ ָ ָ approach ?

, ã֋ - ִ terrorism ֮ ׻֋ ִ , ָ ָ ׾ָ֓ ׸ ִ ? ֻ -߮ , , ֻ -߮ -֤ ? ֲֻ֟ ֻ־ָ օ ֤ ? * , , ֻ־ָ ? 2K/AKG ָ ֿ:

2j/2.20/skc-akg

ֿ ֻ (֟) : ... ו ß֮ ׸ ֲ ֻ־ָ ֻ֟ , ָ , ִֻ֮ ָ distinguish ִֻ֮ ֲ ָ , ָ

ִ , ֮ - ֿ ֲօ - ִ , spelling ׻֟ ֲ ֲֻ֟ - ׾֡օ ֿ ,

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

Ӭ֬Ӭ -ִֻ֮, ֲ ֙ ָ ? ֮ע ׸ ֮ע ֮ע , ו֮ ß֮ ֮ פօ ß֮ ֋, ֲֻ֟ ß֮ ֯ ? ֮ע ֮ ? ֮ ߅ ֙ , ו ֙ , ָ ֿ ֲ ? ֮ ? ֮֟ - , ָ , ָ ׾ ֲ և ֮֟ * ֲֻ֟

ִ - ֿ ָ ? ֲ ײֻ֕ ָ, ָ ָ ָ ָ, ֯ ָ ָ ָ߅ ָ ֲ ßֻ , ? ׻֋ ֜-׻ ָ, ָ ָ ֛ ֲֻ֟ ִ֟, ִ ֮ ִ֟ , Ѿ , , ִ ֲ ? ֲ , ֮ ׻֋ ֱ ֲ ßֻ ִ֟ , ֮ ׻֋ ֱ , ִ ֕ ׻֋ ֱ ֛ ָ֟ ֟ ֮

ֲ ѓ ֮ ֛ ִ ־ֲ ߻ ã֋ , ֣ , ִ publish , -- ִ ֻ ָ 녠 פ publish Ӆ ֟ ? ִֻ֮ ? already ֯ , ױ ֯ ד֮ , ֓ , ִ֕ ִ֮ և ֳ , ֮ օ ֮ ־ֲ ־ֲ ׻Ù ֮֯ ֻ ... (ִֵ ә) ...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You have taken six minutes. ֮֯ 6 ״֮֙ ׻ֵ

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.


SHRI VEDPRAKASH P. GOYAL: Please bear with me for a while.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): You shall get only five more minutes.

ֿ ֻ : ֯ ֲָ ֋ ֲָ ִ -- ã ו ֋, ו ֵ, פ ֵ, פ ֵօ ֕ ? 1993 ֻ , ֮ ֻ ֋, ֤ օ ֻ ֻ օ ֯ , ֯ ֟ ֺ ִ ֻ ׌ ָ , ָ ֈ address ֯ ִ֬ ߲ , ָ ־ֲ פ ֋, ֕ ״ֻ, , ֛, , ֲ ו ֟ - ָ ֯ ֲ allergy , ו֋, ו֋ ׾ֻ control ? ӛ ־ֻ ? ׮ֵ ׾ֻ control ß ֵ֟օ ֲ ָ ֻ֟ deal ׻֋ ֮ ֯ ֮ ֮և, ִ ֯ ֣ ꅠ ִ time bound ֕ ӟִ֕ (2 ָ ֿ:)

2K/HMS-HK/2.25

ֿ ֻ (֟) : ָ ֻ-ֻ ֻ ֲ ֟ ֋օ ֯ ָ ״ֻ , ֤ օ әߕ ֟ ֵ, ß פ ֱ ֯ ֮ ֮֟ օ 00 ֬Ԯ 00և ָ֮

ֳ֬ : ֻ , ו֋

ֿ ֻ : ׻֋ ֜ 00և0 ָ֮ ֯ әߕ ֲָ , ֯ , ßֻ ? þֵ և ״׮Ù -- information , ßֻ ? ֯ ָָ әߕ , ֯ ß ֙ ָ ֯ ָ әߕ ? ֕ әߕ ֕ ׸Ù և- ӕ׮ֵ , ӕ׮ֵ ֻ ß֮ ָ ֲ available ֯ ֛? ֕ ָ әߕ , ßֻ ֕ ָ ֻ֯ ß֮ ֻ֯ ֯ ݻ ִ ו֋, ֯ ׻֋ ׮ֻ ...(־֮֬)... ֻ և և ߛ ו , ׻֋ ֲ ׸ߙ

ӡ ֮ 5 ֮ ֵ֮ We pay our tribute to the people of Mumbai for their resolve to triumph over terrorism.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Instead of five minutes you have taken ten minutes. ..(Interruptions).. There are another 14 speakers. Please conclude. ..(Interruptions)..

ֿ ֻ : ָ, ָ ֙ ֤õ և available , ׻֋ ֯ և

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Your party has already exhausted the time. ..(Interruptions).. No time is available. ..(Interruptions).. It is already over. ..(Interruptions).. This is all bonus. ..(Interruptions)..

ֿ ֻ : ָ, י , ?

THE VICE CHAIRMAN : There are 14 other Members to speak. ..(Interruptions)..

ֿ ֻ : Ӳև ֻ פ ֻ֮ ֟ - ׻֋ ֟ ָ ִ ָ ֋ ֋ ָ ָ ߴָ -֯ ׻֋ ? ׻֋ ֯ ֟ ִ֋ ֲ ן פ ָ ֯ ן ֕ ֟ ִ֋ ָ ן ׻״֙ ֵ ֛ ֋ ֮ ֛ ֯ ֋, ָָ ֟ ָ ִ֕ ֲֻ֟ ֕

ֳ֬ (0 00 ׸֮) : ֻ , ֯ ׮ֵָ ָ 14 ֮ ֻ , ֯ ֟ ֛օ

ֿ ֻ : ֳ֬ , ֟

THE VICE CHAIRMAN : I think the Home Minister is sitting here without even taking lunch. ..(Interruptions)..

ֿ ֻ : ֟ , ָ ß ָ™ פ ־ ֛օ

ֳ֬ : ֯ ׮ֵָ ָ Please conclude. ..(Interruptions).. ߕ ֟ ׻֋ ֟ ֯ Ӥ ֋߅

ֿ ֻ : ָ ־֮Դ ׸ï ? ֵ֮ Ӳָ , ֮־ߵ ֙ ֵ֮ Ӳָ , ֟Ԯ ֵ֮ Ӳָ ߮, ָָ ֟פ ׮֯֙߅ ֯ ֟֋ ׮֯֙? -

ֳ֬ : Ӭ ֤֕

ֿ ֻ : ֯ ׾ֵ և ֟ , ֟և? ֿ , ֯ ֟ ӳ߸ ִ ֯ ֮ ־ֲ ֟֋ ֤֟ (ִ֯) (2/ߋ־ ָ )

PSV-KSK/2L/2.30

Ӭ ֤֕ (ָ Ϥ): , 11 և, 2006 㴲և ִ ׾ñ , خ֤ߵ ו֮֟ ׮֮ ֋, ֮ ָ ֮ ֙ ֮ ִ֕ ֙ ָ ׮֮ ֣ ָ ֋ ׌ֵ ן -Ӿ ֣ ֵֻ ߑ þã֠ ߠ ִ֮֠ ߠ , ߠ ֛ ִԠ

֕ ָ 㴲և ֵ ֮־֟ ׸ֵ פ , ׻֋ 㴲ևԾֵ ֬և

( ֳ֯ן ߚ߮ )

, ֕ ֤֟ פ-ן-פ ֵ־ ֕ ֤֟ ֻ ָ ָ֟ , ׻ ָ֟ ׮ֵ ֜ ֻ , ָ ָָ ֤֟ ׮֯֙ ׻֋, ָ֟ ׻֋, ָ֟ ϵָ ֺ , ֋ פ -- ֙ י ֟  ָָ ָ ֟ ֮

ֵ ֤֟ Ӥ ָ ָ ֤֟ ֙ ָ י ׮ֵ ֤֟ ֜־ ӻݮ ָָ ߻ ןֿ߻ ֣ ׾ֿ߻ ֣ 000 ֟ ָ ֟ ֮ ׮־ָ

, ֣--֣ ֤֟ ӟ׸ ָ ָ ָ, ׿ ִָ ָ ֕ ־֮ ֙ ־֟ - "֟ ן ִ֯", ָ օ ָ ־֮ ֙ ִ ֯ ־֮ ֟פ ׿ָ ֮ ֮ ָ -- -- ֵ ִ , ׻֋ ֤֟ ֜ ָָ ָ ָ ָ ֟ , ׮־ָ ֺ

, ױ ӡ ׮֟ ןֱ ֤֟ ֜־ : ָָ ׮־ ױ ӡ ֣ ֲ֕ ֵ֮ ֋, ָ-ָ ֲ ֙ י ֟ , - ֤֟ ֚ ֙ י ִ , ָ ױ ӡ ֟ , ָ ֮֮ , ָָ ָ ׮־ ױ ӡ ֮ ֲ֕ ֙ י ֤֟ ֚ ֟ ֯ ֤ , ֛ӡ פ ֋ ֻ ß ֋ ָ ױ ӡ ֺ

, ִ֟ פ ָ ׮־ָ ֋, ֤֟ ֱֵ ֲ ֣, ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ֮־֤ (ִ֯) (2 M ָ ֿ:)

GSP/2.35/2M

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Praveen Rashtrapal. You have five minutes.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (GUJARAT): Sir, in fact, I had planned to speak in great detail. But, now, because of the time constraint, I have decided to restrict myself. At the same time, I want to clear many misgivings given by the Opposition Party. As has been rightly discussed by some of my colleagues, let us not blame a particular community for terrorism. Sir, terrorism now is a newer phenomenon and even if we restrict to our own country, in the recent past, we had very bad experience in the city of Delhi, then in Varanasi, and, lastly, in the blasts which took place in the financial capital of our country, that is, Bombay. As very rightly pointed out by Dr. P.C. Alexander, who was the Governor of the State of Maharashtra in the past, Bombay has faced two very worst calamities, one on the 12th March, 1993.... (Interruptions)

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I would request the hon. Member to say 'Mumbai' and not 'Bombay' because the name has been changed.

ֳ֯ן : Ӳև ׻֋, Ӳև

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: All right. It is a very small mistake. I mean, let us tolerate.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: It is not a small mistake. It hurts the sentiments of the entire State of Maharashtra.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Whenever I say, Bombay, it should be understood as Mumbai. ...(Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ִ Ӳև , Ӳև ׻֋

֮ : ֮ , ָ ֟ ..(־֮֬)

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I may inform my hon. colleague Shri Manohar Joshi that I am also a Mumbaikar. I took my college education in Mumbai, I stayed in Mumbai and that too in Shivaji Park, Dadar where his goodself is residing and where the great leader of his party is taking frequent meetings and misdirecting the people all over the country. So, I am proud of Mumbai. I am very much concerned but let us take this opportunity also to congratulate the people of Mumbai, to congratulate the people of Delhi and also to congratulate the people of Varanasi because in spite of very severe bomb blasts -- in which a lot of people lost their lives, a lot of people suffered injuries -- they did not lose their courage. We know what happened in Mumbai. Nearly 200 people died and more than one thousand people were injured. Sir, our single Minister who is in the Government right now, Shri Murli Deora, in spite of being a Minister, has written a letter to the Railway Minister that the compensation of Rs. 50,000/- which is likely to be paid by the Ministry of Railways, will not be sufficient for those who have lost their limbs, as they are likely to remain unemployed throughout their life. Sir, we are very much concerned but, at the same time, we congratulate them for their courage, I mean, the way in which all passengers were trying to help each other. At that time, they forgot whether they were Hindus or Muslims. If they could forget whether they are Hindus or Muslims, why are we, the Members of this House -- which is not an ordinary House, this is the Upper House -- not forgetting whether we are Hindus or Muslims.

Sir, a very incorrect suggestion was made by one of the Members that the Maharashtra Government should publish the names of those who have been arrested during the course of the investigation so that we could know to which community they belonged to. I say that this is highly objectionable. That way, I will request, let the Government of India publish the names of those who have taken loans worth crores of rupees from the banks and not paid so that I could know to which community they belonged to. I want to know the religion of those who are blackmarketers; I want to know the religion of those who are hoarders; I want to know the religion of all those who have been arrested in Delhi in the past five years, who have raped innocent women in the colleges, in the parks. I want to know their religion. Where are we heading for? A criminal is a criminal. An offender is an offender. He may belong to any religion. Just half-an-hour ago, there was a discussion...(Interruptions) Please don't interfere...(Interruptions).... No, Sir. I am not addressing him. I am addressing you.

ֳ֯ן : ™ֻ , ֟ , You don't take...(Interruptions)

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Its' all right. Right now, one Member interpreted what is Jaish-e-Mohammed, Jaish means war, so it means fighting for Mohammed. If one can object to that name, I can object to the name of Shiv Sena. Why do we require Sena in India? We have got Indian Army. How can there be Bajrang Dal? How can he object for such names? They have kept it, its all right. It is their name.

(Contd. by 2N-ysr)

-GSP/YSR-AKA/2.40/2N

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (CONTD.): In India, we have got the Durga Vahini; we have got the Bajrang Dal; we have got the Shiv Sena; and we have got the Trishul Sena. Are they not objectionable names? To me, they are objectionable. (Interruptions) (Time-bell) But they have kept them.

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, he is referring to a party.

ֳ֯ן : ™ֻ , ֯ ֙ ָ ֟ և (Interruptions) It is a recognised party. (Interruptions)

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: ..take the names of all those who are involved in criminal matters. (Interruptions) I have asked the hon. Minister to give the names of those who are involved in the Mumbai bomb blasts and arrested. (Interruptions) There is nothing wrong in it, Sir.

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: I will take the history of all the bomb blasts... (Interruptions) And it is very unfortunate... supporting that. (Interruptions) It is because of your support..(Interruptions)

Ͼ ™ֻ : 㴲և ֯ , ׿־ օ ..(־֮֬)..

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You know it is a political party. (Interruptions)

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI: He has no business to take the name of a party. (Interruptions) ...history of the Congress Party. (Interruptions)

ִ ֻ ֳϾֻ : ֮ , ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Now, Sir, I am going to a very correct quotation from an article written by a resident (Asghar Ali Engineer) of Mumbai. I quote, "Interestingly, Gandhiji's concept comes very close to the Quranic teaching of truth and patience as enshrined in chapter 103. It is a great shame that the so-called jehadis are committing such dastardly acts of violence in the name of Islam. Nothing can be more un-Islamic than these horrifying inhuman acts."

The author goes further, and I quote, "The Prophet when asked what is jehad, is reported to have said that the best form of jehad is speaking truth in the face of a tyrannical ruler." See what is the correct meaning of jehad as answered by Hazrat Mohammad Paigambar Sahab. He further says, and I quote, " Here the so-called jehadis themselves are tyrannical and it is needed to speak plain truth in their face. They need to be told that what they are doing is tyranny against innocent people." The bombs planted in the Western Railways from Mumbai to Bhayandar were not planted to kill aggressors. Those passengers have not committed any offence. The travellers are travellers. They do not belong to any community or any religion. They have not done anything wrong to that particular terrorist. But it was done. It is against Islam; it is against any religion. That is what is written in Quran-e-Sharif. That is what is written in the Ramayana; that is what is written in the Mahabharata; and that is what is written in the Vedas. Even in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata rules for war are given. That after sunset, there should not be any war. That when your enemy is not armed, you should not attack him. These are the rules in our Hindu scriptures. You read any book. You read the Ramayana, you read the Mahabharata, you read the Kalpasutra, you read the Dhammasutra, or the Dhammapitaka, nowhere sanction is given for war; nowhere sanction is given for killing innocent people. I am going to talk about this issue in the coming days. Some reference was made to our Bhartiya Sanskriti. I don't want to go into what was Bhartiya Sanskriti 150 years ago; how the Bhartiya Sanskriti were treating untouchables in this country; how the Bhartiya Sanskriti were treating the widows in this country.

ֳ֯ן : Ͼ , ֯ ו֋

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: And how the Bhartiya Sanskriti were celebrating the child's birth. (Time-bell) So, let us not go into that discussion. If you come down to this particular issue of terrorism, I would request the Government of India to distinguish between the terrorist activities by outsiders, those who are foreigners, and insiders. I mean we must try to find out how we can prevent such incidents. Police will come only after the incident. Right now, the Maharashtra Police is doing the investigation. (Contd. by VKK/2O)

-YSR/VKK-SCH/2o/2.45

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL (CONTD.): Give them proper time. Everyday, they are arresting somebody. Don't disturb them. That is my request. Today, it is the Congress Government; tomorrow, it will be the BJP Government. I do not hope. But, we will have to argue like that. Tomorrow, it will be any party's Government. The police is the agency which is investigating a very serious blast. Let us not disturb them. Sir, if there is terrorism from outsiders, there is terrorism from insiders also. Then, in our country, we should try to find out (Time-bell) how many terrorist attacks took place...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude because there are a number of speakers.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Sir, I am only making some points.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. You have already taken seven minutes against your five minutes.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: I know, Sir. How many terrorist attacks took place in India prior to Babri Masjid demolition? How many terrorist attacks took place subsequent to Babri Masjid demolition? Let us try to find out. How many terrorist attacks took place prior to Gujarat riots? How many terrorist attacks took place subsequent to Gujarat riots? Let us see together and analyse.

Now, when we talk about international border we think only of Pakistan. But we have international border with Nepal, we have international border with Bangladesh and infiltrators are not coming only from Pakistan border. I request the Government of India to take a serious note of this information. Now, when we talk of border States, we think only of Kashmir. Punjab is equally a border State; Rajasthan is equally a border State; Gujarat is equally a border State; and on sea route, all our Arabian Sea and Maharashtra. West Bengal has got international border for sea route. Sir, I have this experience because I was elected from Patan district which is very close to Pakistan border. (Time-bell)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude, please conclude. I have to call the next speaker.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: It is only twenty kilometres. Infiltrators may come. Sir, the police of these States...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Kumari Nirmala Deshpandeji.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: The police of Gujarat, Rajasthan, Maharashtra and Punjab (Time-bell) may be given sufficient instruments, sufficient arms and ammunition, sufficient feedback of Intelligence Bureau to stop the incoming outsiders and terrorist activities. Where this RDX is coming from? It is coming by land route only.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please conclude. I have already called the next speaker.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Yes, Sir. Sir, I am going to conclude, but, Sir, because they made frequent references...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no. There is no time for your answering all the references. Make your point and conclude. I think you have made your point. Please allow other speakers also.

SHRI PRAVEEN RASHTRAPAL: Okay, Sir. Sir, I request the Government of India to give one particular information to this House that if there is a disaster management scheme at the Central level and the State level whether during these types of events, untoward event like Mumbai blast, that disaster management structure of the Central Government and the State Government started working within half an hour or one hour of the event or not. That information may be given and if there is no disaster management for such blasts, such an agency may be created in all sensitive areas in our country. With these words, I conclude. Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Now, Kumari Nirmala Deshpande.

ָ ׮ִԻ ֯ӛ (ִ-׮֤׿֟): ֳ֯ן , ֯ ִֵ , ׻֋ ֲ ֯

׾ֵ ָ ֤ ֳ ֤õ ו ָ ֮ Ӿ , ֣ 㴲և ׮־ֵ ߸ ָ , ִ ״ֻ , ֮ ֟ ׻֋ ׮־ , ו ֮ ֺ ֲ ֟ ֤֟ , ֲ ִ ֲֻ ֻ ׻ ־ ֮ ֮ ִֵ ֮ ֤ ֟ ֲ ֮ , ֲ ִ ׮ֻ֮ ׻֋ ֛ ևԅ ֮ ֮ פ, ֮ פ, ֮ ֚ , פօ ױ ֮ ֟ ֮ և ׾ֿ֮

2P/MCM ָ ֿ:

MCM -MKS/2P/2-50

ָ ׮ִԻ ֯ӛ (֟) : ָ ׻֟ -"ן ֑ ָ ֮օ" ױ ֮ ֋ ָ ׯ ֋ ָ ևԅ ֟ ֤֟ ֮ Ù 녠 ֚ , ֻ ׳֮ ֮֮ ׳֮ ֻ , ֟֓ߟ , ״֮֙ ֻֻ ֟ ׮־ ִֵ ִ ֻ֟ ָ֟ ֌ ׸ ߅ ֤֟ ו֮ ֮ ֱ ߅ -, ß֮ , Ӥ ֻ֟ ָ ֕ ߕ ָ ֮ ִֵ Ӥ ִֵ ִ ֻ֟ ָ ß֮ ִ ֲ ִ ֣ ӛ׿ֵ ֤ ָ ֕Ù ûִ ֮ ß֮ ־ ֣ ׻֋ ָ ֮ և- ָ Ӥ ֙ ׻֋ ָ֟ ָ ֟ ׮־ ָ ָ ֲֻ ָ ֮ - ֟ ָ , ֕ ָ ָ ֻ

߮ ә Ӥ 㴲և ִ ֤ כ פ ֛ ֣ ֲ ״ֻ ? ֛ ֣ ֮ ֮֟ ֤֟ ֟ ß֮ ָ ֻ ֤֟ ֟ ß֮ ™ן ָ ָ ֻ ֻ-ֻ ֓ ֋ ֟ ֲ ֱֻ ִ ֟ ֲֻ ֲ ״ֻ ׻֋ ׸ ָ ß֮ ߓ , ן ֮֜ ֻ , ֟֓ߟ ָ פ פ ֻ ꅠ ֳ ֲ ֟֓ߟ ׻֋ ֻ ߸ , 㴲և , ָ , ֻ֟ ָ ֓ ִ Ù , ֤ ָ ֻ , ֻ֟ ֲ ֻ֟ ֟ ֲֻ ״ֻ , ָ ֮֮ ָ ֣ ֛ ß֮ ִ ׻ֵ ֟ ֯ ֟ ß֮ ֮ ؙ 㴲և ִ خ֤ ׻֋, ֮ Ӿ ֙ , ֮ ֮ ־֮֋ ֙ ß֮ כ ו , ׻֋ ֻ օ ֮ ָ ߱ ֋ ׻֋ ֯ ֣ ß֮ וֿ֮ ֙ ݻ ߅ 0ߕ0 ß־ ֯ ֣ , ֯ ״ֻ ֤֟ ֲֻ , ݵ ָ כ ֮ ߕ ָ ָ ֟ (2Q ָ ֿ:)

SC/2.55/2Q

ָ ׮ִԻ ֯ӛ (֟) : ָ ߕ ָ ׬ ֟ ׻֋ כ ׮־ ִ , , ֲ ן ..(־֮֬)..ָ և כ ֻ , ָ ֣ - ߕ ָ כ ֮ ֿ , ָ֮ , ֮ פ ϴ ָ , ָ ֿ ָ ֵ֓, ֮ ָ֮ ״ֻ ? ָ , - ֮ ֛ ִ օ ׻֋ ӟ ׮־ ִõ ׻ ֮֜ , ֮֜ ֜־ օ - ֟֓ߟ , ן ָ , ֛ ֣ ִõ ׮ֻ֮ ӳ־ օ ӟ , ֮ ֟ ױ ֟ ֻ , ֻ , ֮־֤ ֵ ֟օ (ִ֯)

׮ ֵ (׿ִ ֻ) : ֮־֤ ֳ֯ן , 㴲և פ ֙ ָ ֳ 㴲ևԾֵ ״ֻ-, ֳ ִ ֮֟ ֣ ֲ ֵ֓, ïֻ֟ ֵ ֤ ו ן ֻ ֣ ׮ֳֵ, ׻֋ ֲ ֮־֤ 㴲և ֙ ֵ֤ ֙ ֙ ־ כ ֙ ־ כ ֲ ֙ ֙ ֤ ָ֟ ֤ Ù֮ ָ ֙ ߅ ָ ߕ ױ ӡ , ו֮֟ ִ֟ ֣ ִ , ִ ֣ ֣ ־ , ָ ֙ ֙ , ִ ױ ӡ ߆ָ ָ כ ֛ ָߋ ָ ֮ ֛ ֯ Ù, ָ ָ ӟ ָ ӟ ֟ , ־ Ӥ ֙ ֙ - ֛ , , ָ-ߙ ֟ ãן ־ ױ ӡ ֺ ו ֟ , ֻ פ ׻֋ ֌ , ִ ֻ֮ ֻ , ׻ כ ֮ , ֙ֆ ֓ ֋ ָ ӟ ׻֋ ֙ ֙ , ִ , ִ ־ ָ ֟ ָ ӡֵֻ ו֮֟ ׾ֳ , ִ ָ ֮֕ן ׻֋ ָ ֲָ - ֲ פ Ӭ ֤ ֟ ֻ ֲָ ָ ߅ ָ ֕߾ ֤ ֤ , ָ ֙֋ ֙ - ָ֟ , ꬵ , ָ֮ , 㴲և 㴲և ָ ָ ֙֋ ֙ ֙ ֙ ֤ ֙ ׻֋ וִָ , ֻօ ו , , ֻ - ֤ ֟ ָ ߕ ָ , ו ֙ ׮֮ , ֻ ׮֮ , ָ ־ָ Ӥ ׻֋ ֵԾ (2ָ ָ ֿ:)

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