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RG-PSV/3.00/3A

׾ֵ֕ 0 (ָ™) : ָ, ִ֮֮ߵ ӡ Ͽ , ו ֮ օ ׻֋ ׸ױ֮ ֟ , ϵ , ָ ן ٣ ן, Ͽ օ ָ , ׾֤ , ָ Ù꯻ , ן ֮և , ו ִ֬ ֮ ֮֋х

ָ ֟ ָ ߅ ִ׮֟ ïױ פ ָ ָ ֯ ֵ ׮ֻ֮ ֮֟ , ٙױ և ֤ 40 ֋ ֮ ִ߮ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ָ ֕ ֋ , ָ ֮ ֣ ׻ ֮֯ ָ օ

֟ פ ֵ , ִ ָ ן ֮ ׾ָ֓ , 725 ֋ ֟ ֤ߵ ӡ ָ (ִ֯)

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־): ֯ ֲ ֵә - ־ֲ ? ...(־֮֬)... ֲ ...(־֮֬)...

׾ֵ֕ 0 : ָ, - , ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI MANOHAR JOSHI(MAHARASHTRA): Sir, I am only on one point. He has given an exhaustive answer to the debate wherein he has listed a number of remedies as well. But these are all long-term measures, and I don't think the measures, that the Minister has suggested, can stop suicides of farmers. As my friend, hon. Member, Shri Sharad Joshi, just now said, yesterday itself, nine farmers have committed suicide. Therefore, a number of Members from various political parties have suggested that not only interest but it is also necessary that whatever loans the farmers have taken, they have to be waived, for the time being, at least during these difficult times of the farmers. Will the hon. Minister do something to stop the suicides of farmers by waiving off the loans that they have taken?

0 ִ ӛָ (ײָ) : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ ׾ßָ ֳ ׾֮ ָ ֿ ֻ 40 percent assured irrigated land , ו֮֟ ָ ָ 60 ָ ָ ׮ֳԸ ֛ , ãן ֣ ״֙ ָָ ֻ ߴ ֮ ֻև ִ֮ ֮֮ ִֵ ֻ ߴ ֮ ãן , ָ ֮ ֻ ߴ ֟ , ָ ֻ ֮ , ״ֻ֟ ָָ ׻ , ִ֮ ? ִֵ ֻ , ׻ ֮֮ ? ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Shri Ravula Chandra Sekar Reddy. Please be very brief. We have already had a discussion, and we cannot restart it.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Yesterday, I raised a point regarding fixation of prices. As production varies from zone to zone, it will be costing less in Southern parts, and it will be costing more in Northern parts. I wanted zonal representation in the Price Fixation Committee. That is one suggestion. The second one is that in Andhra Pradesh alone, 3,247 farmers have committed suicide since May, 2004, till yesterday...(Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: You give the earlier figure as well.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: You must be having that figure...(Interruptions) Sir, that is how a controversy arises. Now they are in Government...(Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: You started from May, 2004. That is why I am asking...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Narayanasamy, are you going to reply?

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: They made a hue and cry during 2004 elections that farmers were committing suicides.

(Continued by 3B)

TDB-KLG/3B/3.05

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (CONTD.): Now, you are in power; you are in the Government, both at the Centre and in the State. It is your responsibility to see that...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, Mr. Bhandary. ...(Interruptions)... Please be brief.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: Sir, I have not completed. Sir, 3247 farmers have committed suicide in Andhra Pradesh. The hon. Prime Minister has also visited the State of Andhra Pradesh. But, so far, nothing has happened. Sir, the present Government of Andhra Pradesh has sent a request to the Central Government for a special package of Rs.51,856 crores, in which about Rs.1,500 crores is as interest waiver. At least, to the extent of interest waiver, it is an immediate and urgent need. What is the response of the hon. Minister, in this regard?

(ָ™) : ֳ֯ן , ֱ ֮ ֮ , ֮ ֱ ? ֲ ߱ ״׮Ù , 127 ֱ օ և ״׮Ù ֯ ֻә ߴ ָ ֋ ֋, ָ ֮ , ֻә ߴ ֆ և ֮ֆ, 30 ָ ֋, ֯ ֮ ֱ ߴ և ״׮Ù ֋?

(ִ֯)

ָ֕ ״ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֬ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ ™ߵ ִ ־ ֚ ֵ֮ ָ ֵ֟ 40 ֤ ֮ , ֮ ִ ֳ 49 ֤ ֮ , ָ ֛ ־ Ӥ פ ֵ , ָ ֤ ֮ ֟ ״߮ ֮ , ו֮ ܵ 35.4 ֤ , ֜ 40 41 ֤ և ָ ߴӟ , ܵ ֜ ֮ ֟ ֵ֟ ִ , ֮֯ ֤ ֟֋ , ִ ֮ ֤ ֟ ״߮ ֮ ֑ ߴӟ ֮ -֤֕ ֟ ִ , ן ֤֕ ֟ ִ ָ ָ ֟֋ ֙֋ ִ֮ և ִ֮ ֟ , , ִ ֮ օ ֮֮ ׻֋ ׾ֿ ֮ , ֮ ֕׾ ֻ ә ֮, ִ ֮ , ™ ָ և ? (ִ֯)

PROF. P.J. KURIEN: Sir, I said that the Government of Kerala has proposed five districts for special package.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): We have restarted the debate. ...(Interruptions)... We have already restarted the whole thing. ...(Interruptions)... Please put pointed questions.

PROF. P.J. KURIEN: Sir, the hon. Minister has already agreed that there are five districts, but proposed in two instalments -- first, second and the third. He has also said about the three districts which the Government has already cleared, and the details are coming. But, with regard to the other two districts, namely, Idukki and Alleppey, he has said that it would be considered. But, I would like to know from the hon. Minister by which time the package will be announced. (Ends)

׿֤ (֮ Ϥ) : և ָ ָ, ӡ כ ֮ ־ֲ פ, ו֮ ָ ֟ ִ֮ ״ֻօ ָ֤ , Ͽ , ӡ 40 ָ ִ ֮ ֮ , , ִ߮ , ָ Ù Ӥ ָָ ֵָ פ ֟ , ֟ ָ ֟ ָ Ϥ Ӥ , ִ ֻ ָָ ֵָ ֛ ӛÙ׻Ù ..(־֮֬)

߸ י : ָ .. (־֮֬)

ֳ֬: ӡ ־ֲ ו֋ ..(־֮֬)

߸ י : ָ, ָ Ϥ ִ ߓ ֵ? ..(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ : ӡ ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ևә ִ ֵ, ֵ ӡ ־ֲ (־֮֬)

߸ י : ӡ ־ֲ ? ָ Ϥ ֟ ָ ߬-߬ ..(־֮֬) 3/ ָ

AKA-KGG/3:10/3C

׿֤ : ָ, ֤ 100 וֲֵ֤ Ӥ פօ

..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : , ֯ ֟ և, ӡ ־ֲ ꅠ ִ , ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬)..

߸ י : ָ, ..(־֮֬)..

׿֤ : ָ, ״֮֙ ֮ ֟ ָ כÙ ֟օ ..(־֮֬)..

߸ י : כÙ ֯ , ֤ ָ ..(־֮֬)..

׿֤ : ֱ ־֮Դ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֬ : ִ , ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬).. ׿֤ , ֯ ևә ֵ, ӡ ־ֲ ꅠ ..(־֮֬).. ӡ ֯ ևә ׻ֵ , ־ֲ ꅠ ..(־֮֬).. ִ , ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬)..

׾ ִ : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֮֮ߵ ֮ Ͽ , ֕ ãן ֮ ֻ֟ ֟ ָ ָ , ׻֋ ֡֠ ..(־֮֬).. ־ֲ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ꅠ ..(־֮֬)..

߸ י : *

׿֤ : *

߸ י : *

׿֤ : *

ֳ֬ : , ..(־֮֬).. Nothing will go on record. (Interruptions)

------------------------

* Not recorded.

 

Nothing is going on record. (Interruptions) ֵ , ֯ ֵ և ..(־֮֬).. ֯ և, ߕ̅ ..(־֮֬).. ִ , ֯ ׻֋ ..(־֮֬).. ֋, ֻ֟ ֟

׾ ִ : ֳ֬ , Ͽ ֵ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֮֮ ָ ֈ ָ֮ ײֻ ֮ , ֯֙ ״֙ ֮ , exclusively for agricultural products ׻֋ , ײֻ ָ ֮ , ו ָ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֵ ָ ֺ ֟֋Ӆ

ֻ : ֮־ָ, ֯ ִ֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ִָ֓ ֡ ד֡ ׾ָ֓ ֜օ

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : ֯ 꿓֮ ֟ ו֋, ָ ִֵ

ֻ : ו֮ ӿ ן׸ ֵ ֯ , ׸ָ ֟֋ , ִָ֓ ֌־ ִ֬ ֜ ָ , ִ ֬ ״ֻ , և ֯ ִ֮ ֜ , ֯ ׾ָ֓ ֯ ֟

ֳ֬ : , ֜ ־ֿ , פ ֯ Ͽ ה

ֻ : ָ ֮ ָָ ײ֛ , ׾ֵ ָ ֓ ֿ֮ ָ ֮֯ ׾ָ֓ , ï™ ו֋, ֮

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (KARNATAKA): Sir, the Finance Minister is also sitting here along with the Agricultural Minister.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You have to ask the Agriculture Minister, not the Finance Minister.

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: I just would like to bring to your notice a heart-breaking incident; of course, there are so many incidents. In Karnataka, seven children of one farmer have committed suicide in a day. There are so many incidents like that. One family of an agriculturist, a small farmer, after taking loan from a bank, went in for four bore wells but he could not get water. Because of that the family committed suicide. I just would like to bring to the notice of the hon. Finance Minister and the Agricultural Minister that when they are in debt, they would not be in a position to pay back for years; if you are going to reschedule the loan for 7 or 10 years, during their life time, they will not be in a position to pay it back. After all, why are you keeping them under debt for years together when banks are not going to get that money? Why cannot you write it off? That is why, I agree with Joshiji that you write it off. You have written off the debt of big industrial houses. You have written off thousands of crores of rupees.

(Contd. by kls/3d)

KLS/SCH/3D/3.15

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD): You did not want to give them. ...(Interruptions)... Now why can't you change the law, when we are dead sure that you are not going to get back the money? ...(Interruptions)...

Ӭ ֤֕: ָ, ߬ ־ֻ ӵ ֕ ָ ׾֢ ӡ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־): , ֵ ...(־֮֬)

Ӭ ֤֕: ָ, ߬ ־ֻ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֬: ֳ ־ֻ ߬ ...(־֮֬)

Ӭ ֤֕: ӵ ָ ӡ ׾֢ ӡ ֤ ִ֬ ֮֮ ֯ߋ , ֮ ֮ ? ָ ֯ߋ , ֮ ֱ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֬: 꿓֮ ־ָ ־ֻ ֵ , 꿓֮ ־ָ ־ֻ ֵ

Ӭ ֤֕: ָ ֯ߋ , ֮ ֱ ...(־֮֬)

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Sir, regarding the Warehousing Bill, I would submit that it is before the Parliament. If he wants to make any suggestions, he will definitely get an opportunity for that and we will take corrective action.

Many Members have raised the issue of indebtedness. I have replied that a Committee has recently been appointed under the chairmanship of Mr. Radhakrishnan, which is going to look into this particular subject. This subject has been raised by many Members including Mr. Meghe, Mr. Joshi, and also Mr. Poojary. So, I have read the Terms of Reference and in that on the same issue work has been handed over to them. After getting their report, the Government will take appropriate action.

Now, Prof. Kurien raised the question of package for six districts. I have said that we had proposal from the previous Government for three districts. We are going to take the final view on three districts and then we will definitely consider sympathetically the rest of the few districts.

ӛָ ֻ ߴ ֟ և , ֕ ֻ ߴ ֮ ֻ , ִ ָ ֮ ß־ ָ ֮ ָ ֤ օ ָ ָ ֮ ֕ ׮֙ , ׮֙ ӓֵ֟ ׮֙ ָ ׾ָ֓ ֻ , ևֻ Ù ָָ ֻ ָ ׮Ե ߅

כߕㆻ ָ ֵ֟ , ָ ־ֲ ִԸ ֮ , ־ֻ ֵ, ָ ־ֲ פ, ֲ ֮ ...(־֮֬)

׾ֵ֕ . : ָָ ָ ӌֵָ ֋?

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: That is not my subject also.

Mr. Reddy has raised the issue of CSCP. Generally in the CSCP, at the time of discussion on MSP, they take into consideration the following points:

(1) Cost of production (2) changes in input prices (3) input and output price parity (4) trends in market prices (5) demand and supply situation (6) inter-crop prices parity (7) effect of the industrial cost structure (8) effect of price waiver (9) effect of the cost of living (10) international market price situation and (11) parity between the prices paid and price received by the farmers in terms of trade.

Mr. Reddy has given a suggestion that we should try to accommodate the State representatives. I will consider that suggestion because that will be useful. Thank you very much. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Now we shall take up the Constitution (Eighty-seventh Amendment) Bill, 1999.

BILL WITHDRAWN

THE CONSTITUTION (EIGHTY-SEVENTH AMENDMENT) BILL, 1999

 

THE MINISTER OF PANCHAYATI RAJ & MINISTER OF YOUTH AFFAIRS AND SPORTS (SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR): Sir, I move for leave to withdraw the Constitution (Eighty-seventh Amendment) Bill, 1999.

The question was proposed.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, this Bill pertains to Andhra Pradesh, the proposal was received from Andhra Pradesh. The main purpose of bringing this Bill at that time was -- Jairamji is aware of the problem -- this. There is a three-tier system and five functionaries in Panchayati Raj in Andhra Pradesh. It was agreed in principle; the Bill was brought to the House. But due to some other reasons it was delayed. Now you are withdrawing it. What exactly is the reason? (Followed by 3E)

-KLS-SSS/3E/3.20

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Sir, I am not sure why you should look at Shri Jairam Ramesh? (Interruptions)

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: It is under consideration that it will be passed.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Sir, I represent the country here. May I respond to it?

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: Unfortunately, the Bill originated from Andhra Pradesh. I am afraid, you represent country. But, unfortunately, the Bill originated from Andhra Pradesh. He is aware of the problem.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Sir, this Bill was brought in the previous Lok Sabha, when there was another Government sitting on this side, and we were sitting on the opposite side and if, at that time, it was not possible to create a sufficient national consensus over a proposal which came from one State of the country for the nation, as a whole, to accept it in this House and, please don't forget that the Bill is dated, 1999. So, there was an entire five-year period during which such a consensus could have been created if it were possible. Then, since the arrival of our Government, it is close to two and a half years have passed, we have, still, not been able to evolve a consensus. It does not appear appropriate for us to amend the Constitution in this manner and hence, a Bill which has not secured the consensus of the nation over a period of seven years is sought to be withdrawn. I seek the leave of the House to do so.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

SHRI MANI SHANKAR AIYAR: Sir, I withdraw the Bill.

(Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Now, we will take up The Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) and Financial Institutions Laws (Amendment Bill, 2006.

THE BANKING COMPANIES (ACQUISITION AND TRANSFER OF UNDERTAKINGS) AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006

 

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): Sir, I beg to move:

That the Bill further to amend the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) Act, 1970, the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) Act, 1980, the State Bank of India Act, 1955, the State Bank of India (Subsidiary Banks) Act, 1959, the Deposit Insurance and Credit Guarantee Corporation Act, 1961, the Export-Import Bank of India Act, 1981 and the National Housing Act, 1987, as passed by Lok Sabha , be taken into consideration."

Sir, the purpose of this Bill is to improve corporate governance in our banking system especially in the public sector banks. The main features of the Bill are: (1) to increase the number of whole time directors from the existing two to four; (2) to provide for nomination of a director on the recommendation of the RBI by the Government of India; (3) to delete section 9 (iii) (d) provided for nomination of not more than two directors from SEBI and other financial institutions. (4) to amend section 9(iii)(1) to provide for a maximum of three elected shareholders, directors on the Board. (5) to enable the shareholders to discuss, adopt and approve the annual accounts and the balance sheet of the banks at the AGM. (6) to prescribe annexing of the details of a subsidiary or subsidiaries such as balance sheet, profit and loss account and report of auditors along with the annual report of the bank. (7) to enable the banks to transfer the unclaimed dividends for over seven years to the Investor, Education and Protection Fund established under the Companies Act. (8) to enable supersession of the Board of Directors of weak, potentially weak banks for a period of six months and to appoint an administrator, to amend relevant statutes relating to banks and financial institutions prescribing the term of non-official elected directors other than workmen, officer employed directors as three years subject to further re- appointment election with total continuous period, not exceeding six years. The Standing Committee presented its report on the 24th April, 2006. The Committee broadly agreed with the amendments. In the course of the Committee's deliberations, however, certain issues which mainly relate to the statutory framework pertaining to the capital structure and supersession of boards of weak or potentially weak public sector banks vis-a-vis the provisions envisaged for the private sector banks came to light. As a consequence, thereof, Government in consultation with RBI proposed the following further changes in the Bill: (1) issues relating to issue of preference shares by the nationalised banks as per the guidelines framed by RBI. (Contd. by NBR/3F)

-SSS/NBR-GS/3F/3.30.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM (CONTD.): (2) fit and proper criteria for elected directors;

(3) Super-session of the Board and appointment of an Administrator.

The Committee accepted the Ministry's aforesaid suggestions. The Committee also recommended the following modifications to the Bill:

1.     Elected directors will be rendered excess with the coming into force of the proposed amendment should be allowed to complete their term of office;

2.     To incorporate appropriate provisions in the scheme to provide for mandatory initiation of prior action for filling up the vacancies in the Boards three months in advance to their likely occurrence;

3.     To have a re-look at the general regulations relating to convening and conduct of AGMs of banks so as to assess the requirements of changes needed therein in the light of the proposal to enable for approval and adoption of the balance-sheet, accounts, in addition to discussing them;

4.     Necessary changes to be carried out to the proposed Section 10(c) so as to make them in conformity with the Companies Act;

5.     Changes to be made in the amendment proposed to provide for legitimate space to bona fide claimants of dividend amounts even after the seven-year time stipulation;

6.     Appropriate changes to be carried out in the provisions/regulations to specify the qualifications of the administrator;

7.     Replacement of Section 18(a) to 18(f) defining the office of Financial Restructuring Authority in view of the changes made by replacing that Authority by the Administrator;

The recommendations of the Standing Committee were examined and analysed by the Government. And, it was proposed to make amendments to the Bill as per the recommendations made by the Standing Committee and on the basis of a consensus reached in our discussions with certain hon. Members of the House.

As per the provisions of the Companies Act, as amended in 1999, once the unclaimed dividend is transferred to the Investor, Education and Protection Fund, the claimant will lose all rights to the money representing unpaid/unclaimed dividend under the Companies Act. In other words, after seven years, claims are debarred. Therefore, this will require an amendment to the Companies Act. Thus, necessary amendments to the Banking Companies (Acquisition And Transfer Of Undertakings) Act can be made in this respect when the Companies Act is amended. After obtaining the approval of the Cabinet, we have introduced amendments to the Bill. The amendments have been passed by the Lok Sabha. This Bill, when it becomes law, will substantially improve corporate governance in our banking system.

I request the hon. House to consider and pass this Bill.

The question was proposed

(Ends)

ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֕ã֮) : ֳ֬ , ֮֮ߵ ׾֢ ӡ The Banking Companies (Acquisition And Transfer Of Undertakings) and Financial Institutions Laws (Amendment) Bill, 2006 ֤ ִ֮ ׾ָ֣֓ ֳ֬ , ӿ֮ ײֻ ו ׾֢ ӡ ָ ִ ׮ ־ , ׾ָ ָ 1970 ™ߵ, 1980 ֵ֮ ֵ ӿ֮ ײֻ ֵ , Ù؛ כ ֤, ָ ß ֵ ִ֟ ײֻ ָ ֵ , ׯ׾ֵ ־֮Դ ָ ָ ֤ Ù؛ ׾ָ֣֓ ֻ ֵ, ָ כ֮ ֤, ָ ײֻ ß ֵ ׻֋ ֟ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֟ ï™ ׻֋ ֟ ֕ ָָ, ׯ׾ֵ ־֮Դ ֵ֤ ֻ֮և ָ ػ 33 ָ ߅ ִ ׻ þָ ֯ þָ , ֯ ׾ֵ , ֯ þֵ ׮ֵָ ׾֢ ӡ ֯ ֟ ֮֟ 33 ָ ָ ػ ֮ ֤ , ָ ֮ ־֮֬ ָָ, ™ߵ ׮ָß օ (3 ָ ָ)

SC/3.30/3G

ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֟) : ׻֋ ֕ ָָ ֟ ָ ևև օ ָ ָ ػ օ ָ , ֕ ִ ֈօ ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֮ ֵ֮ ֟ , ӲӬ ï™ ֮ ֟ ֕ ݻֻև֮ և ָ, ֌ ָ ֲ ֟ ֻ ָ 꿮ֻև ֕ ָ ֟־ָ ֮ ױ׿֋ә ִ ? ֕ ָ ׵֟ - ֮ , ֈ , - ֯׸ , ֛ Ùߙ - ָ ִ , ? ָ Ͽ , ִ֮֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ þֵ ֮ ֌־ פ , ֲ þֵ ׾֢ ӡ ִ֮ ו֮֟ ֮ ָ ֵ ֵ , ӟ֮֕ ָ ֮֮ߵ ׾֢ ӡ , ֲ ִֵ ֋, ֲ ֟ ֵ ׵֟ , ֯ ִֵ-ִֵ ָ ִ ֿ - ָָ - ִ ֟ , ׾֤ ִ , ֯ և ִ ָָ ߮ ֵ֯ ֻ ӲӬ ֯ ׸יֻ ֌־ ߮ ִ ֻ ֲֻ , ןï֬ ָ ™ߵ , ו֮ ָ ־ , ֮ ׬ ֣ ߙ ֱ ? ֟ ָ֮ ִ ָ ™ߵ þֵ֢֟, פ ֋ ׬ָ ֮ ׬ ֱ ֮ ֵ ֮ ֮֟ ִ ֳ֬ , ֲ ֓ , þֳ׾ ֟ ִ֮ ֋ ָ ™ߵ þֵ֢ ? ׬ָ ״ֻ֮ , ״ֻ ? ָ ߋ֛ߕ ֵָ , ׌ֵ ׮ , ׬ָ ֯ , ׬ָ ָ ӓֻ֮ ָ ? Ͽ ָ ִ֮ ֟ - ִָ֓ ֮֮ ״ֻ֟ , ֮ ֲ ֵָ ׮ֵ׌ֵ , ִֵ ֵָ ִ֟, ݵ֟ ֟ - ׾ָ֓ ׻ ׮ֵ׌ֵ ִֵ ֟ ֤ , ֙ ֤ ָ ׸ ֵ ֤ ָ ֵָ ׮ֵ׌ֵ ִֵ ָ ֌־ ֤ߵ ׾֢ ӡ ֜, ֵָ ׮ֵ׌ֵ , ߌי ֵָ ֵָ ׮֤ , ׮ֵ׌ ׸̾ ߅ ָ ֻ֮ ָ ָ, ֤ ֮֮ߵ ׾ִֻ ֻ֮ , ׸̾ ־֮Ը , ׸ , ׯ֔ ־ ׾µ ָ ֵ֤ ֕ ֓ ֯ ֤֮ ׾֢ ӡ ֮֮ ָ ־ãֆ ־֕, ֟ , ӟ ֟ ֕ Ù , ֻ ֤֮ ָ ߛ߯ 40 ָ ֤ (3 ָ ֿ:)

USY-MP/3H/3.35

ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֟) : ֕ ָ ָ ִ , ׾ßָ , þֳ׾ ־ֿ ֤֮ ֜ ֯ ֮ ֜ , 75 ָ ֋, 80 ָә ֋, ָ ֮ , ָ֮ ֯ , ִ֟ ָ ֲֻ ָ ֻ ֤֮ , ֵ֤ ֓ ָ, ֚ ָ ֤ ֻ ׬ effective ׻֋ ֯ ߴ ӳ־֮֋ ֲ ֯ ߴ ӳ־֮֋ , ֯ ֻ ָ ֮֋, ו ϳ־ ֻ ֮ ֮ ָ ß ׻֋ ־ֿ ֯ ׾֬ , ֟ ־ ߸-߸ ִ ָ , ߸-߸ ִ ֮׸ ֯ , ־ã ׾ßָ ߴ ӳ־֮ֆ ֟ ־ֿ ֕ ™ߵ ו֮֟ ֋ ָ Ӿ , ֮ ֤ , ֕ 36 ֻ ֻ֮և ֋, ־֕ ֕ ָ ֻ֮և ֋ Ӿ-Ӿ ֮ , ו֮֟ ־ֿ ָ ָ ־ã֋ ־֕ ֆ ׾ßָ ׮׿֟ ֋? ֲ ֓ ֟ , ׾֬ ָ, ֻ ָ ׾֢ߵ ׾֬ ֲӬ , ִֵ ֟ ֟ , assurance פ ֟ ֵ ׾ßָ օ , , ׾֢ ӡ ֮ ֋ ߮ ֮ ֋ ֮֯ ׸֕ , ו ָ ֮ ָ ֻ , ָ ֻ ִ֬־ ֮ ֳ ״ֻ ֵ , ָ֮ ״ֻ֮ , ִ ָ ™ߵ ו֮֟ ׬ָ , ׬ָ ײ ֮ ִ ֜ ӟ֮֕ , ֮֮ ֲ ָ ָ֮ ׾֢ ӡ , ֲ ־ֻ ָ ִ֮ ֛ ָ ֯

ֳ֬ , Directors appointments ָ , ׾֢ ӡ , Directors appointments , ָ Director appoint ֟ , ׻֋ ׸̾ ִ ֋, ֯ Directors appoint , , ׮ֵ׌ֵ ׻֋ ָ ־ã ãׯ֟ ו֋, transparency ãׯ֟ ו֋ ִ ֮ ֮֕ ָ , ֵ֤ , ׌ ֵ֤ , Ԥ֮ ֲ ָ , ־ã ߙ ֟ , ֮ ֮ ׿ֿ , ׻֋ Directors appointments ָ ָ ׾֢ ӡ ־ã , וִ ָ ֯֟ וִ ָ Ԥ֮ ָ ״ֻ, Ͽ , ו ָ ׾ָ֓

, ߴ֮ ӡ և ׻ , ֜ , I appreciate, ӳ߸ ׻ֵ ײֻ ֮֯ פ , Ӳָ 3 Ӳָ 15, ִ ֮֯ ׻ ֵ֤ Directors ָ in sub-section 2, the words "Shall be entitled to discuss, approve and adopt". This is really very good. ָ ׌ ֻ כ , ֲֻ֟ , ֮ օ ׮Ե ׬ָ ָ ֕ ָ ֯ ׬ָ כ , , , ֟ ,  ָ ָ כ֮ , ָ ׮Ե ֱ֟ ״ֻ, , ֟ ױ ׸ߙ ֱ֟ ֳ ״ֻ, ֲ ݵ, ִ Director ִ ׮ֵ㌟ ֋ (3 /ֲ ָ ֿ:)

-MP-NB/VP/3J/3.40

ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֟) : ֣ ָ - ָ ӟ , Ӥ ־ã ֮ ֋, ָ ֻ ֯ ִֻ ֟ ֋Ӆ ־ֿ ֟ total mechanism ֲ֕ ֮֋ ו ٣ ־ã ו֮֟ ֤֮ , ֮ ֤֮ ֯ , ָ ֯ ׾֤ , ׾֢ ӡ , ֯ ׾֤ ֟ , You go to foreign countries. You can say that in the world market, our banks are really working for the nation, and for the upliftment of all the people of this country, ֲ ӟ ֯ ֮ Directors ֮ ו֋, ֯ ֮ branches ו֋, ֯ ֮ ׮ֵ׌ֵ , ֛-֛ ׬ָ ֮ ו֋, ֲ ֮ ֯ ׮֟ , ֲ ָ ׸̾ , ָ State Bank of India ָ ™ߵ ׮׿֟ ãן model bank ֮, model banking ־ã ֮ Ӥ ִ ָ ָ ִ , օ ׾֢ ӡ þֳ׾ ٣ ӡ ֲ֕ , ٣ ӓ ֲ֕ , ןֿ߻ ֮, ֯ þֳ׾ ֲ ׾ ٟ ֮֯ ײֻ ָ ֮ ָ פ, ׻֋ ֯ ֳָ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir. I rise to speak on this Bill, i.e., the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) and Financial Institutions Laws (Amendment) Bill, 2006. I support the Bill. But there are a lot of comments which I would like to make before I go into further details. My good friend, Shri Ramdas Agarwal, has said that the hon. Minister has mentioned somewhere that the NDA Government had the intention to bring the shareholding of these Public Sector Undertakings to 33 per cent; even then, that will not be privatisation. I cannot understand under which law a minority shareholder can control the management of an organisation.

ִ֤ Ͼֻ : ׮ֵ ָ֕ single shareholder , minority shareholder ָ֬ ָ control ֻ֟

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, how do they manage it? Shri Ramdas Agarwal is an industrialist himself. He knows that they may have 33 per cent holding. They may have even five per cent or ten per cent holding. But they know how to look after the interests of other shareholders, and they also know how to manage with their friends and relations. That is how they manage it. Only on paper, it might look ten per cent or five per cent. It is even three per cent in some cases, I am told. But let me tell you that a clear management is only when you have more than 51 per cent shareholding. De-facto or de-jure, it will be privatisation if it is less than 51 per cent. That was the intention of the NDA Government. We should not deny that. You should be courageous enough to say; that was our intention. It is not that we say something and our intention is something else. Sir, I will go into the details a bit later.

Shri Ramdas Agarwal has mentioned about appointment of non-official Directors. I have my own reservations about it. There is no doubt about it. But may I know whom the NDA Government has appointed? What kind of Directors have they appointed during their regime? Do you want me to open up the list and say what kind of expertise those Directors have? Who has recommended whom? You know it very well. Probably, you were not a Member. Even then, you must have tried to put some people on the Board of Directors. There is nothing wrong in it. Even if you tried or failed or gained, there is nothing wrong in it. But the point is, our hon. Minister has now brought out guidelines even for those appointments. (Continued by PK/3K)

PK/3K/3.45

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): There were no guidelines in your time. So, it is easier to...(Interruptions).. Sir, I don't think he should interrupt me in every sentence. I could have interrupted him when he was speaking.

׾֢ ӡ ( . דָ֤) : ֯ ֤ ו֋

ӟ ֛פ : , דָ֤

ִ֤ Ͼֻ : ֲֻ֟ ֟ ߅

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, the then Congress Government nationalised the banks -- this was done way back in 1970, and then in 1980 -- because the need for nationalisation of banks was felt mainly because private commercial banks were not fulfilling the social and developmental goals of banking which are so essential for any industrialising country. Sir, I would like to tell you about my personal experience. Way back in 1962, I needed only one lakh rupees from Punjab National Bank.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Only one lakh!

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Yes, Sir, only one lakh...(Interruptions).. That was my first application to the bank. I will give the name of the bank, that is, Punjab National Bank in Calcutta. Sir, believe me, for that one lakh rupees I had to get two sureties. As a small industrialist, it was impossible. But, after nationalisation the same bank gave me Rs.35 lakhs, without any security. So, the smaller people, the small industrialists gained heavily. That was the whole purpose. The ordinary citizen of the country..(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: That is not part of the Non-Performing Assets now.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, if you want to go into my history, then, you will have to talk to me separately in the golf course...(Interruptions).. At the moment, I am just trying to explain how this nationalisation was so beneficial for the nation, for the benefit of the ordinary citizen of the country; otherwise, the banking industry was also in the hands of a few large industrial houses, and whatever advantage was being taken for the deposits made in those banks was going only to these industrial houses. Sir, presently, there are 19 nationalised banks. The shareholding pattern of the 15 nationalised banks, which had gone in for public issues, varies from 51 per cent to 77 per cent. Sir, the lowest, 51.19 per cent, is in Dena Bank. I will correct myself, 51.10 per cent is the lowest that is in the Oriental Bank of Commerce, the second one is in Dena Bank, and the highest still is with the Bank of Maharashtra which is 76.77 per cent. That is the percentage within which these 15 banks are operating. I strongly request the hon. Finance Minister--because I have the experience -- let us not follow in the footsteps of NDA; let us not think of 33 per cent; let us not agree to what Mr. Aggarwalji is saying, or, whatever his intentions are. If you bring it down, that is, beyond 51 per cent, we will accept that you also intend to privatise. Let us not try to fool the country under any circumstances.

THE FINANCE MINISTER (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM):That clause has been dropped.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: That is why I am saying, Sir. I don't know what you are planning for the next Budget. So, I am only trying to caution you for the future. I am happy that you have dropped that clause; I am happy that you are sticking to 51 per cent for the time being; so, I am telling you that in future also 'please don't do it.'

Sir, regarding the whole-time Directors, the latest position is this. Section 9(iii) of Banking Companies Act, 1980, provides that the Board of Public Sector Banks shall consist of not more than two whole-time Directors, one Director who is an official Central Government appointee, one Director who is an officer of RBI, not more than two Directors from SEBI and NABARD, workman Director, officers' nominee Director, CA category Director, two non-official Directors and Shareholders' nominee Directors.

(Contd/ by 3L/PB)

PB/3L/3.50

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Now, the shareholder nominee directors are supposed to have -- for the information of the House and, especially, for the information of my elder brother, Agarwalji, -- special knowledge in agriculture, rural economics, banking, cooperation, economics, finance, law, SSI or any other matter of special knowledge which is useful to the bank or he should be a representative of depositors, farmers, workers or artisans. That was the basis earlier. I don't know how much your Government followed that, but I am sure, our Government is following these norms very clearly.

Now, Sir, by the said amendment, which the hon. Minister has brought out before the House through this Bill, the Government envisages to appoint more Government-nominees in PSEBs. It also intends to dilute the present requirement that 'the PSE Board is to have RBI nominee mandatorily.' Thus, the Government say, "in all policy making, including changes in rates of interest, ...will increase substantially." I agree with this partially but not wholly because, on the one hand, the hon. Minister has mentioned in his speech that it is done for better governance, but, on the other hand, if we have so much control on the appointment of the directors that all directors directly or indirectly will be appointed by the Government only, even if you have only fifty-one per cent shareholding, then, Sir, I don't know what will be the freedom of thought of these Government directors. That has to be looked into, and the fact that whether that will really bring good governance has to be seen.

The Government also intends to increase the number of whole-time directors from existing two to four in view of the expansion plan of the nationalised banks. I fully support this point, because the business has increased so much that one CMD and one Executive Director are definitely not enough. For varied kinds of services, namely, exports, small-scale industries, agriculture, large industries, infrastructure, etc., you need experts; and, unless you have experts at the Executive Director's level, it will be very difficult. The Chairman cannot do everything; the business has expanded so much. On this, as a trial basis, I would like to suggest whether we can have one Chairman, one Managing Director and two Executive Directors. This is just a suggestion. But I don't want to go into the details of that. The hon. Minister can decide or the banks can themselves decide on this.

Besides this, Sir, the Government also appoints nominee directors under sections 9(3g) and 9(3h). It is said, "The Banks' Boards will have majority Government Directors being the majority shareholder of a bank'. I have no problem on this. However, regarding the RBI nominee, it is true that if we have a Regulator there, he will have an overshadowing power. He will influence the decision; and, sometimes, it may be even against the interests of the bank. So, the problem of conflicting interest was there. Moreover, a recent Supreme Court reference is also there. It said that whenever there is a conflicting interest, the same director cannot do justice. Sir, there is the Naina Lal Kidwai case where she was asked to vacate the directorship of the Nestle, being the Chairman of HSBC. So, whenever there is a conflicting interest, I mean, it is in all fairness, the Bank Director has to remain in the bank only, or, otherwise, he or she has to resign from the bank. However, when more functional directors are appointed, there should be a clear division of responsibilities among them. Let there be no overlapping of responsibilities. It should not be that there are, say, three Executive Directors and overlapping responsibilities. That will dilute the whole purpose of having that kind of set-up.

Sir, the SEBI has stipulated that there should be fifty per cent Independent Directors. Now, that will be a clash of banking and other companies because, according to the Companies Act, there should be fifty per cent Independent Directors. But, in the case of banks, on the one hand, we are saying 'autonomy', and, on the other hand, we are saying 'they will have only fifty-one per cent shareholding', and then we want to control all the shareholders. So, that angle should also be looked into as to whether we can have fifty per cent Independent Directors in the banks also. (Contd. by 3m/SKC)

3M/3.55/SKC

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Sir, coming to shareholders' rights at the Annual General Meeting, I am fully convinced that what you have decided is commendable, and that they should take up the responsibility. They should not be there only as spectators. They must adopt and approve such accounts. They have to accept this responsibility; they cannot say, 'we could not vote and so, we know nothing about it'. Similarly, the consolidation of accounts of subsidiaries is an example of good governance. Subsidiaries' details should be known, particularly, when we have only 51 per cent share; forty-nine per cent remains in the hands of lakhs and thousands of shareholders in the country. They should know what the subsidiaries are doing. I would like to compliment you on that too.

Sir, according to Section 9(3)b of the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) Act, 1970 and the Banking Companies (Acquisition and Transfer of Undertakings) Act, 1980, RBI has been vested with the powers to remove any Director of the corresponding new bank, elected under Section 9(3)(i) of the Act. However, there is no provision regarding supersession of the Board of Directors. I fully agree that if the bank, like any other PSU, is not performing..(interruption)... The ownership of the bank lies with the Government, and so, the Government should have the supersession power. But that should be for a limited purpose and a limited period of time; it must be for six months or a year at the most. And it should be done very transparently. There must not be any supersession just because the hon. Finance Minister doesn't like the face of a particular Chairman, or some of the bureaucrats don't like them, and they recommend to the Finance Minister; if the Finance Minister has good relations with a person, he is superseded! There should be specific guidelines also on whether profits have been made or not; how much loss has been incurred. Proper enquiry should be made as to whether the losses are because of mismanagement, or due to some fraud in the banks on which banks have no control. Even at the time when you are superseding a person, kindly appoint a new officer only from among the bureaucrats..(time-bell)..

Sir, I know that I have got 36 minutes. If you don't mind and if you allow me -- I shall not take up all that time -- but, at least, give me some more time.

Kindly don't appoint Government officers. If you really want to improve upon it, bring in banking experts; there is no objection to that. You could bring in experts from the RBI, or from any other source, or even an officer who is a banking expert.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM): It says, 'administrator not being an officer of the Central Government'.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: It should also mention 'not retired'.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Why are you changing your ...(interruptions)...

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: It must also say, 'not retired'. It is happening, and it has been happening blatantly in every organization, not only in the Finance Department.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: It clearly mentions about serving officers.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: That is all right. I am not an expert; I might have overlooked.

SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I am not criticising; I am only pointing it out.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: I appreciate that. But I have said, 'retired'; please add it, if possible.

Sir, the next point is about the tenure of non-official Directors. It has been mentioned here that his appointment is '...subject thereto for a period not exceeding three years or such further periods not exceeding three years at a time as the Reserve Bank may specify'. I shall strongly recommend, with my experience with non-official directors of PSUs, that it should be for three years, there is no objection with that, but, under no circumstances, must he be reappointed. We want new people. Why should you have the same Director appointed again? We have a population of one billion in the country. We have plenty of experts in the country. Why should the same person continue year after year? And, nothing much happens! So, these non-official Directors must be appointed only for one year. In the second term, at least, he should not be appointed in the same bank, or the same PSU as per the law. The new Director must also be appointed. There is a provision that says if he is not appointed, the same person could continue for six years. Now, why should he not be appointed? What I am trying to say is that he should not be reappointed. If you so wish, you must appoint a new Director three months before, so that it is known that once he goes, the new Director would be coming. (Contd. by 3n/hk)

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