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kgg-nb/11.00/7a

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (contd.): There will be no difficulty in that and we will do that. But, I have been asking this question and nobody is answering this question. Why did he not come back? What made him stay away from the country after the country achieved Independence? If he could go to Manchuria he could have certainly come to India. In my opinion, he could not have gone to the Soviet Union. But he could have gone to Manchuria. Had he gone, could he not have come to India? If not in 1945, after 1947 he could have come. 1945, I can understand because the British were ruling and he would not have come because he would have been arrested. But, why not after 1947? What could have been done? Let us understand Shyama Prasad Mukherjee was a member of the Cabinet. Baba Saheb Ambedkar was a member of the Cabinet. If Subhas Chandra Bose could have come, he would have definitely guided the country if he were alive, and if we are fortunate enough, he could have come and he would have done that. Nobody could have objected. With Mahatma Gandhi, nobody could have objected. Mahatma Gandhi was with us for a small time after the Independence.

ֵָ : ֯ question ָ ֤ؕ , ֋, ָ-ָ ֯ question , why are you so keen to prove that he is dead? Why are you so keen to prove that Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose is dead?

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: No, no, we are not keen to prove that. On the contrary, we would be very happy. Some of us are not afraid of death. But, then, who is saying that we are afraid? But, what is the reality? Now, you are saying that he is alive. You were saying that he was alive, at least. You are saying that he did not die there. You are not in a position to say how did he die. Some people say that the ashes are of Subhas Chandra Bose, some of the family members say this thing. Some members are saying that these are not the ashes. What do you expect us to do?

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: This Commission's report also is saying that.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Which Commission's report? There are three Commissions.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Yes, Mr. Minister, you have been abusing. You are giving a great importance to Hazibur Rahman's evidence. This is the only eye-witness' evidence you are quoting that Netaji died in aircrash.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: No, you give us any convincing evidence, we will accept it.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: What was the nature of the evidence given by Hazibur Rahman? (Interruptions) Sir, the Commission had dissected and analysed every piece of evidence given by Hazibur Rahman's. (Interruptions)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): If you can speak one by one, it would make sense. (Interruptions)

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I will read from... (Interruptions) I will read it.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: If you speak one by one, it makes sense.

߸ י : ״֮֙ ׻֋ ֟ ו֋ ӡ ֌ ָ ֯ע ֮֯ þֵ ֮ equate , כ ֟ ֮ , ֮֯ ו֮ ֆ ִ ֮ ֣ ׻ֵ , ֆ ִ ֤ ִ֟ ָ ֮ ֯ , ִ ֟ , . , ֮ ִ ֤֕, ֕ equate , ֕ ִ֮ ָ tall , ֕ tallest ִ֟ ָ ӡ tall tallest ӟָ ֻ ן ֕ ã֮, ָ Ӭߕ ֲָָ , Ӭߕ ֤ ã֮ ֻ ֮֕ן ָ ֯ ߮ ִ ֣ equate , ִ֟ ֕ ִ֮

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: One minute, please. (Interruptions)

(Followed by 7b)

AKG-KLS/7B/11/05

ֻ : ָ, ֮֟ , ן ׾֪֣ ֟ ֟ ֕ ׾ֳו֟ ָ ֮ ׻֋ ... (־֮֬) ...

ӡ ( ׿־ָ֕ . י) : ֯ ֟ , ֟ ־ֲ ֤ ߕ ֯ և ֛ ֮֯ , ֟ ָ ן ֟ ֮ ־֮ ֯ ֮ ֮ ֲָָ ֮֮ ׻֋ ָ ֮֮ ׻֋ ָ

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : ֜֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ֯

߸ י : ָ֬ ָ ֤֕ ֛և ֕ ״ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֻ : ֲ ָ ׻֋ Ͽ ... (־֮֬) ...

߸ י : ִ֮ ׌ ֵ֟ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֻ : ֮־ָ ֟ ֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ֮֮ߵ ӡ ָ ֟ ֮ Ͽ , , - ֟ , ֵ֮ , ž֮ , ֮֟ , ו֮ ߾֮ ֵ֮ , Ͼעֵ ֵ֮ , ֮ ׾ֳו֟ ָ ?

׿־ָ֕ . י : ? ֯ ?

ֻ : ׾ֳ֮֕ þָ օ ָ

. ֮ : ֳ֯ן , ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: This is the last question.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: It is not a question. I am just referring to the evidence given by Habibur Rahman. ֮ ָ ָ built ϟ֤ , ו֮ ָ ϟ֤ evidence ֮ ֋, ָ-ָ evidences ֮ ֋? օ ߿֮ ׻ , 4.12.6 page 89, ֜

"It may be recalled that in assailing the story of plane crash it has been submitted on behalf of some of the deponents and their learned Counsel that considering the fact that the plane had not seats and seat belts and all the passengers were squatting on the floor the inevitable result immediately following the nosedive would have been rolling of all the passengers with luggage inside the plane down the floor to the cockpit. In that event, they argued, half of the passenger could not have survived or come out of the plane either unhurt or with some minor injuries as claimed by the survivors. This contention is well-reasoned more so if it is read in the context of the relevant evidence of Habibur Rahman (SW4). From his evidence it is seen that not only he testified to the above fact but went on further to say that the plane nose-dived from a fairly high altitude "possibly over 12-14000 feet." If this evidence of Habibur Rahman is to be believed then none of the 12/13 passengers - not to speak of the crew members - could have survived. Viewed in that context the explanation sought to be given by the surviving occupants of the ill-fated plane that as Netaji was sitting by the side of the petrol tank, gasoline flashed all over his body resulting in his sustaining their degree burns cannot also be believed, for Netaji, could not have been in his original position on the floor immediately following the plane's nose-diving.

4.12.7                     Next comes the following version of Harbibur Rahman (SW- 4) regarding the injuries he sustained in the plane crash as given out by him before the Committee: ...(Interruptions)...

"As for myself, my both hands were very badly burnt. As I came through the fire, right side of my face was burnt and I noticed I had received a cut in the forehead which was bleeding and also the right side of my right knee was also bleeding profusely as it had hit some hard substance..."

12-14 ָ ߙ ָ ֤ ֻ֟

"The head cut was caused by hitting the floor as the plane crashed. My clothes did not catch fire. My hands were burnt very badly in the attempt to take off Netaji's clothes." That is, he was not burnt in the plane, but then his hands were burnt in removing Netaji's clothes..

 

"Both my hands up to the wrist show marks of deep burning even after a lapse of more than ten years."

 

Rest of it you can see in the entire evidence about these injuries to Habibur Rahman, the nature of burn and every thing has been completely contradicted and dissected by several evidences in this. Therefore, the fact that Mr. Habibur Rahman survived and Netaji died, plane nose-dived from a height of 12-14,000 feet is completely untenable and, therefore, the only one survivor, he did not inform the people. Netaji died on 18th, why was he silent till 22nd or 23rd? Why did he not inform anybody in India or anybody in the INA? This is again, you see I have again said, why this was done. But why did he depose wrongly? I have made it clear because he was on oath to Netaji that he would protect this smokescreen and even he will not disclose it to anybody so that Netaji can go to any destination. (Contd by 7C)

SSS-HMS/7C/11.10

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD.): Now, after asking a question somebody should tell us why Netaji did not come to India. Suppose, Netaji was arrested by some country, suppose he was not a free man. How could he come? Now, this is a thing which you have to find out, which the country has to find out. What happened to him if he did not die in the crash as the Commission says? So, these are the questions which have to be answered, which have to be clearly decided. And there is no reason of denigrating any leader. But there should be no reason to deny the space to Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose in the history of freedom of India and his inspiring life to the coming generations of this country. We respect all leaders of the Indian freedom movement, all revolutionaries, all great heroes and the respect which people deserve is decided by the respect they command in the hearts of the people. There is no denying that each one of them commands a great respect. But, the place of Netaji in India's freedom movement and his whereabouts should be made correctly known to the people in order to give a very correct direction to the developments after 1945. That is the most important thing. If you want to know it, and, if you can help it, well and good; otherwise, people will decide themselves what to do.

׿־ָ֕ 0 י : ֯ ןִ ָ ֮ ֵ ֲ ֆ ֲָָ ֮֟ ָ ֱ ֟ ֟ ָ ֟ ߲֮ evidence accept ָ ֕ ꯙ ֮ ֟ ֮֮ ֓ ֋ ָ ֓ ӲӬ ֯ ֮֟ ׸ ׻ "Regarding the altitude from the where the plane nose-dived, it is stated that the plane crashed immediately after take off." So, it could not perhaps gain the height of 12 or 14,000 feet as planes were not technologically very advanced. Moreover, the plane crashed within the precincts of the airfield. If, it really had gained the height, it could not have fallen within the boundary of the airfield.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: So, they have disbelieved Habib-ur-Rahman's comments that the plane took the height of 6000 - 14,000 and, then, nose-dived.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, I would give you a concrete example.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: This is what I am saying, "concrete example."

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: ָ և -Ù Ù ָ ָָ և ֕ , ߛ ....(־֮֬)... ָ ֋ ֲ ԅ ..(־֮֬)...

00 ׻ֵ : և ֕ օ ..(־֮֬)...

0 ֮ : ֕ ֋, ֲ ֤ 12 ָ, 14 ָ nose dive օ This is what he says.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): May I suggest something, Mr. Minister? I don't think so that anything is the last word. This is where the mystery is and this is where...(Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, even if the plane crashes from 33,000 feet, there are several others in that. Mr. Joshi knows it. You are an expert in civil aviation. Therefore, I am referring to it.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: If you had known the answers so clearly, we would not have been debating like this. So, obviously, there is an element of mystery, and answers would be sought by successive generations also like somebody said. So, I personally feel that it would be better if Mantriji make his concluding remarks.

׿־ָ֕ 0 י : ӟ ֱ ֌ ֤ ־֮ ָ ֟ ־֮ ֮ ôן ָ ֮ פ ָ ֮ ו ֕ ׸ -- (7 /ߋ־ ָ ֿ:)

VP-PSV/7D/11.15

׿־ָ֕ 0 י (֟) : ֮֮ ׻֋ ֯ ׻֋ ,

ֳ֬: ֟ , ָ

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I don't expect judgements from the Chair.

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : , ִ֕ ...(־֮֬)... ָ ߅ ֯ ? ָ֤ , ָ ֳ פ֟ ָ ו֮ ׻֋ פ , ָ ֟

The House stands adjourned till 11.00 a.m. on Friday, the 25st August, 2006.

****

The House then adjourned at fifteen minutes

past eleven of the clock till eleven of the clock

on Friday, the 25th August, 2006.

 

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