SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD): You can just see for yourself, Sir. ...(Interruptions)... That is the convention. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: We will take the sense of the House. ...(Interruptions)... The hon. Member from Puducherry, please, if I can have the attention of the hon. Member who is speaking. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Since you have mentioned convention, it is always taken up at five o' clock. ...(Interruptions)... Since this is the order of the day...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I appreciate your pointing it out. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: This can be taken up tomorrow; this can be taken later on. ...(Interruptions)... That is also a convention. ...(Interruptions)... If you want to change it, the choice is yours. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARYANASAMY: We can take it after this Bill is passed. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Shrimati Karat, may I say something? ...(Interruptions)... I think what the hon. Member has pointed out is quite pertinent and quite in order. ...(Interruptions)... I will take the sense of the House. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, it is equally important. ...(Interruptions)... If you are taking the sense of the House, then, let me explain this that...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): I want to take the sense of the House. ...(Interruptions)... Hon. Members, should we carry on with the discussion or should we take up the Half-an-hour Discussion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Half-an-hour discussion.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Okay, the ruling is like this. Since it is already mentioned in the business papers of today, we will take up Half-an-hour discussion and immediately after that discussion, we will come back to the discussion that we are already having now. ...(Interruptions)... That will be after that. ...(Interruptions)... The Power Minister is very much here. ...(Interruptions)...



SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Thank you very much, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir. I really appreciate your ruling also and you have been more than fair to me...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: We go by the rules. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I raise this discussion on a very important subject of National Electricity Policy. Sir, in the mid-eighties it was Rajiv Gandhi, our hon. former Prime Minister, who talked of the vision of 21st century particularly for the young people of India. It is not simply entering the 21st century; it is a question of what will happen to our country in the 21st century. According to his vision, Sir, the most important point was the infrastructure, which has to be developed and out of this infrastructure it is the energy, it is the electricity, it is the power, which was considered the most important. With that background, Sir, I would like to mention for the information of the House and the hon. Minister, through you, Sir, some numbers, and some suggestions. I will seek some clarifications from the hon. Minister. The total installed power generation capacity in the country as of end June 2006 stands at 126,089 MW comprising 40,463 MW in the Central sector, that is 32 per cent, 70,394 MW in the State sector, that is 56 per cent, and 15,231 MW, that is 12 per cent, in the private sector. This includes 32726 MW, that is 26 per cent, of hydro capacity, 83273 MW, that is 66 per cent, of thermal out of which 68489 MW is of coal and 13582 of it is gas based, 3900 MW, that is 3 per cent, is of Nuclear capacity and 6191 MW, that is 5 per cent, is renewable capacity. In addition to that 41000 MW captive capacity is also available in the country. That captive capacity, Sir, has been imposed; that has been imposed. The national wealth is being wasted because of the captive capacity and cost of the captive capacity is Rs.8 to Rs.9 per unit. (Contd by 3B)


SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): This is entirely because we could not handle, we could not give enough power supply to the consumers. Sir, during 2005-06, there was picking shortage of 12.3 per cent, i. e. 11,463 mega watts. Now, by 2012, our Government wants that there should be power for all and for this, Sir, we need about one lakh mega watt during Tenth and Eleventh Plan. What have we achieved during the Tenth Plan? For this, Sir, 41,110-mega watt was planned to be added during the Tenth Plan, that is, by 2011, against which we could add only about 31,000-mega watts. Hopefully, according to the Ministry of Power, we will really achieve that much. Capacity addition programme in the country in different sectors by ownership during the Tenth and Eleventh Plan is as under. About the Tenth Plan, I will not go into the picture because 2007 is coming next year. Let us think of the Eleventh Plan now because a lot of gestation period is there. Sir, in the State sector, for the Eleventh Plan, we need to add 19500 mega watts, i.e. 28 per cent; private sector, 14,000 mega watts, i.e. 20 per cent: Central sector, 35,000 mega watts, i.e. 52 per cent. This makes a total of 68, 500 mega watts. Sir, fuel-wise, again in the Eleventh Plan, for Hydro we need to add 17,000 mega watts, i.e. 24.8 per cent, for thermal, Sir, we need to add 48,300 mega watts, i.e. 70.5 per cent, out of which coal and lignite will be 39,800 mega watts, i.e. 58.1 per cent and gas base will be 8,500 mega watts, i.e.12.4 per cent and nuclear will be 3200 mega watts, i.e. 4.7 per cent. Why are these figures necessary? Sir, about nuclear deal, we have been discussing a few days ago, and I hope, with the new agreement with the US Government, with the new technology, plenty of raw materials for the nuclear energy will be available to the country. So, if that really comes through, it will be a boon for the country, and then, I will request the hon. Minister. He may even revise for the next Five Year Plan when we can have much bigger numbers for the nuclear energy so that this can be cheaper energy and much longer based energy where the supply of raw material will be much easier. Sir, non-conventional sources of about 5000 to 6000 mega watts each is also planned for Tenth and Eleventh Plan. What do we do? My suggestion Sir, for ensuring fuel availability is expeditious development of mines, matching with commissioning of power projects. We allow the power projects, but mines are not developed. Mines are not allotted. They take their own sweet time. Expeditious clearance from the environment and forest angles for coal mines is required. Coalmines are allotted for years. Environment clearance is not given. If you don't want to give the clearance; don't give it. I am not saying that you just give the environment clearance blindly. But, please be expeditious. If you decide to give; give it. If you don't want to give it, then, say we don't want to give it. Let them plan for something else. Otherwise, these people go on waiting for years and years and it only delays the projects. It is so much against the interest of the country. From the matching development of ports and rail infrastructure, the Railways are making a lot of money nowadays. Let the infrastructure be developed so that it is matching with the needs of this power sector. Sir, the fuel prices account for 70 per cent of the cost of power and because there is complete monopoly of the supply of coal, the prices are fixed unilaterally. Therefore, Sir, we must have an independent fuel regulator with a clear mandate to determine the prices in a transparent and reasonable manner. Sir, the States must provide full support for project development by ensuring law and order. Sir, there are a number of States where it is possible to develop power projects, but, law and order problem is very acute. (Contd. by NBR/3C)


SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): It is the responsibility of the States. And, either the public sector or the private sector people are not equipped to handle the law and order problem. The States, which are not able to handle the law and order, should be told very clearly, 'look, you have to buy power from other States where it is possible to develop power generation faster.'

Then, Sir, the States have to facilitate faster land acquisition. Land acquisition, as you know, is a very big problem. If it is required by any entrepreneur or by a PSU, than it is the responsibility of the State. That should be done faster and in a reasonable manner. I am not trying to say that they acquire land and don't pay anything to those people from whom land has been acquired and not to provide any rehabilitation to them. It should be done in a humane way and they should be paid more than what is required. But, this should be done expeditiously.

Sir, water should also be made available as per their requirement. Hydro projects, involving inter-State water issues, should, normally, be given to the PSUs so that they can be handled more efficiently.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Shri Bagrodia, I just want to remind you, the energy given to this House for this particular discussion is half-an-hour. And, you have to ration your own energy and finish it, because I have got six Members to speak and we have to finish it within half-an-hour. So, my request is to kindly conclude.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, I appreciate your concern. It is a very important issue. So, be a little liberal. Half-an-hour can become one hour. It has also happened in the past. It would not go beyond that.

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: You insisted for rules and regulations.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: That is correct. You have insisted on rules. It is correct. And, that is precisely the reason why I am reminding you.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, if my own Minister is against me, I will have to concede.

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: I withdraw my word.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, this is a very important subject. Thank you for withdrawing your word.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: He can withdraw his word, but the House cannot. Kindly conclude.

SHRI SUSHILKUMAR SHINDE: But the reply can be given in the next Session.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, the total funds required are exorbitant. We require Rs. 4,50,000 crores. Where from this fund come? That has to be made available. We cannot just plan and announce everything without making available funds. From the current capacity addition -- rate of around 5,0000 MW to 6,000 MW p.a. -- the required rate in the Eleventh Plan would be about 15,000 MW p.a. Keeping in view the limitation of BHEL's capacity -- I want to come to the BHEL and the Minister of Heavy Industries is sitting here -- I wish to say something on BHEL. Let me tell you, as he has come here, he can guard me. I don't speak much against BHEL and I am not against BHEL.

SHRI SUSHILKUMAR SHINDE: Are you afraid of him?

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: No, no. I am not afraid of him. He is a good friend of mine.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): This is known as waste of energy. Kindly stick to your subject. You don't have more than one minute.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: There is a need for more players in the power plant equipment manufacturing to increase the capacity, competition and bring in advanced, environmental-friendly and energy efficient technology. I suggest for consideration of the hon. Minister that we should have another PSU. It should be developed along with the BHEL. The BHEL is doing a very god job. It is a Navaratna company. I have nothing against it. But, it has a limitation of capacity. I just now came to know that instead of 6,000 MW capacity, it could make 8,000 MW capacity or even 9,000 MW capacity equipment. But, how do we get 15,000 MW capacity equipment per year? So, temporarily, if it is to be imported, we have to use foreign suppliers. We should use them. I will recommend that they should also be used through the BHEL, so that their technology is further improved with the BHEL.

I have already mentioned about the nuclear power. Only the last point I want to mention about the nuclear power is that for faster development of nuclear power potential, other central PSUs like NTPC may be allowed for joint-ventures with the suitable international players and NPCIL.


SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, you can thank me in the next two minutes.

Then, Sir, I come to T & D losses. I want to draw your attention to the T & D losses in the nearby countries like Myanmar, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and even in China where it is only 7 per cent. I am not going into China. (CONTD. BY USY "3D")


SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): The T&D losses in Japan and Australia are as low as 4 per cent. Even in Nigeria, it is 38 per cent. But in our country t is 31 per cent. In Nepal, it is 21 per cent; in Sri Lanka, it is 18 per cent; in Myanmar, it is 18 per cent. So, the T&D losses have to be looked into very seriously. We must have -- in view of the problem that we faced in Delhi -- installation of efficient electric metres. Otherwise, just to have faulty metres does not mean that you are doing a good job.

My next point is with regard to PLF. In the private sector, the thermal PLF has gone up to 90.4 per cent in 2006-07. I will talk only for this year. In the central sector, it is 81.2 per cent. (Interruptions) What is Central, then? Only you have given these figures. I am only quoting from today's question No. 357. It says that Central thermal PLF is 81.2 per cent; private thermal PLF is 90.4 per cent. He says, "NTPC". Good enough! But the State is 70.1 per cent. So, this has to be looked into as to how we can improve upon it.

The last point that I want to make is on the Power Grid Corporation. The Power Grid Corporation has spent 600 million dollars on communication. They have not focussed on their main subject, that is, transmission of power. I would request the hon. Minister that this kind of fancy things should not be done in our country. But it has happened. We have objected to it. When the hon. Minister was the Chairman, I was his Convenor. We had objected to it. But, unfortunately, it was not accepted. And, what happened? All the 600 million dollars have gone down the drain because that technology is no more needed in the country. The argument given was that it was happening in the USA; it was happening in the European countries. In those countries, Sir, transmission has reached at the peak point, but not in our country. So, I would suggest the hon. Minister that all these PSUs should focus on their main activities. With these words, I thank you, Sir. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Now, Mr. Ramdas Agarwal. You have to finish in 20 minutes because there are four more speakers.

ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֕ã֮) : , ׿ֿ , ָ Ͽ ӲӬ Ͽ ֛ , ו ָ Half-an-Hour Discussion ֵ , ָ և פև Ӳָ 1 ָ ֮ ִ פօ

ֳ֬ : ֕ã֮ ֕ã֮

ִ֤ Ͼֻ : , ֮֟ ֳ֬ , ׾ֵ ֛ ֯ ֲ ֟ ָ֮ ֕ ֲ ֛ ־Ù , ֲ ֛ ֮ , ָ ӱÙָ ֯ ׾֪ ֤ ׾֪ ׾ָ֟ ֳ 4 ֋ Ù ֳ֬ , 4 ֋ Ù ֛  ָ ֯ 5 ״֮֙ ׮֮֯֙ ֯ ֕ , ׾ֵ ׻֋ ֯ ꌙ ָ ׾֤ ֓

, ׾ֵ ֻ֮ ֲ ֛ ָ ߻ ָ ׿֮ ׾ֳ ӡ ָ ׾ ꌙ ֜֋, ֕ã֮ , ״֡ ߮ ׯ֌ָ , ֟, ֳ֬ , ֌ ָ ֲ ׾ָ֓ ֲ ֟ ֛ ꌙ , 4 ֋ ו ӯ֤ , ꌙ ָ ָ efficiency increase , ָ Ӥ ָ ִֻ֯ , Ӥ ֤--֤ ֳ ֟ ָ ׾ָ֓ ֮ ? (3 /ߋ־ ָ ֿ:)


ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֟) : ֛פ ָ և ꌙ PLF, Plant Load Factor 90.4 ָ ָ Ù ֻ 70 ָ ֯֠ 5-7 ָ ָ , ֤, ָ 70 ָ, 80 ָ ־֮Դ 81 ָ ֵ , Plant Load Factor , ֮֜ ׻֋ 10 ָ ֳ֬ ָ 10 10 ֮ 20 ָ Plant Load Factor ֜ ֟ , ֯ 20 ָ ־֙ ؾ 20 ָ ־֙ ׻֋ ֮ Ù , ֯ ֻ ә ֯ 20 ָ ־֙ ײֻ֕ , , inefficiencies ָָ , և , , ָ ֮ ֛ ֮ ֻ , ָ ד֮ ־ֿ ָ , ֮ օ

ֳ֬ , ָ ֯ ֯ י ֮ ָ ָ ֲָ ֲ ֜ ײֻ֕ ֛ ײֻ֕ , ײֻ֕ ֣ ֮ ֤ ָ ֟ , ײֻ֕ , ֋ ײֻ֕ 1 20 ָ ֋ , 1 20 ָ ֋ ㆻ , ֣ פ ֋ , ָ 30 40 ָ , ֲֻ֟ ? 40 ָ 45 ָ ֋ ן ֻ ׌֙ 40-50 ָ ֋ ָ߲ ׻֋ ֈә ݮ ꅠ ָ ׮ֵ ׯֱֻ , ״ֿ֮ 12 14 ָ , ֠ ָ ָ 40 ָ ? ָָ , և ꌙ , ֻ , ֳ֬ ? ָ , ֯ ו֮֟ ә և, ߸-߸ ֯ ֮ ֋օ 40-50 ָ ֋ ׮ ? և , ו -- љָ , -- ֵ , -- ָ ׮ױ׿ֵָߕ , -- ָ ״׮Ù֮ , -- ױ , -- Ù ׌֙ -- ָ ָ ִֻ ֮ þ֣ ֬ 40 ָ ֋ ן־ ֮

ӡ ֮֮ ָ ߕ ׻֋ ֯ ֋? ӡ ׾֮֯ օ ֛ ׾֮֯ ֮ ֻײֵ ד֡ օ ֮ ׸ִ ֮ ꅠ ֮֯ ׾֮֯ פ ֛ ָ , ֯ և , datas ִ֣ ֮֯ ִ , ֯ ׿֟ ...(ִֵ ә)... ֳ֬ , ֮֮ ֲ ָ ָ ӡ , ֤ߵ þ0 ֤ , ӱ , ֲ ׌֙ ֵ օ ִֵ ӱ -'Power for all'. It is very good. There will be power for all. And power will be at what rate? The hon. Minister has stated in the Press Conference that it will be heartening to listen for all of you that power will be given at the rate of Rs. 2 to Rs. 2.20 per unit in the country. ֳ֬ , ӡ ֮֮ ֕ ָ 2 ֋ 2 ֋ 20 ֯ ײֻ֕ ֯և ? ֯ ֤ ׌֙ , ӱ , ֮֮ߵ ӡ , þ0 ӡ ֟ 2 ֋ 20 ײֻ֕ , ָ ײֻ֕ ß , ײֻ֕ ֲֻ ...(־֮֬)... (3/000 ָ ֿ:)


ִ֤ Ͼֻ (֟) : ׮־ ײֻ֕ ֲֻ ֮, Ӿ ֮, Ӿ ָָ ִ ֟ ָ ֮֋ , ֮֟ , ֮ ֮֟ , ־ã֋ ֮և ֟ , ֛ Ӥ ϓָ ֟ , ӟ ? ӡ ֻ פ ־ָ ֓㋿֮ ? ײֻ֕ ֮ ? ָ Ϥ ֛ ֟ ֟ , ־ ֟ ָ ײֻ֕ ֟ פ ָ ײֻ֕ ֟ ָָ ָ , ֯ פ ֻ֟ .ߕ. ֮ ãן , סֵ ֮ ߅ ..(־֮֬)

ֵָ : ֛ ..(־֮֬)

ִ֤ Ͼֻ : ֳ֬ , ׻֛ ևә , ־ֿ ֱ ׻֛ ևә ָ ֮ ֟

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : Ͼֻ , ׻֛ ևә ָ ִֵ

ִ֤ Ͼֻ : ָ, ֮֟ , ֯ ֲ֕ ֲ֕ ֮֮ ָ ךև ӟ ? 4 ֵ ֓ ֤ ָ ֮ ײֻ֕ ׻֋ ָ֟ , ָ ָ ֻ, ֵ ײֻ֕ ָ ֋ ֟ ײֻ֕ ֋, ? ֮ ֚ ә ײֻ֕ ׻֋ ָ ײֻ֕ ? ָ ֟ , ֮ ײֻ֕ , ָ ֻ ײֻ֕ , Ӿ ײֻ֕ ָ, ָ ־ã֋ 4 ֵ ֓ ֤ ? ָ ֯ ׾ָ֓ օ ™ ֲ ֯ Ͽ ָ ִ ֋ױ֋ , ָ ײֻ֕ , Դ֮ , ™ָ֓ ֛ ֤ ֯ خ ֛ ֯ ֤ ָ , ֯ ߋ ֮, ֲ ֯ ֲ

ֳ֬ , ӟ ֟ ֮ ֟ ֟ օ ֟ ־ָ ֯և , ׸ևֻ ־ָ , כֻ ־ָ , ׻֙ ־ָ , ֛פ ֮֟ , ֕ ӛÙߕ Ӥ ָ ־ָ , 24 ә ־ָ , ӓ-ӓ ֋, - ֋ ן ׮֙ ֤ ӛÙߕ Ӥ ֌㋿֮ , - , ֟ ֮ ָ ײֻ֕ ֟ , ߮ ־ָ ֯և ו֮ , ׮֙ ֕ ֱ ֳ֬ , ֯ ֟ Ӥ֕ ãן ?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.

SHRI RAMDAS AGARWAL: I am concluding, Sir.

ָ, ־ָ ꌙ ֮ ֛ ־֕ ֮ ֵ ֓ ־֕ ֕ ָ ִ ֤ ײֻ֕ ָ֮ , ֮ ָ֮ , ֯ןֵ ָ֮ , ױ ֮ ֵ ֓ ֤ ִõ ִ֮֬ ? ֮֮ߵ ӡ 2012 ֲ ײֻ֕ , 2012 ֻ , ֺ 2012 ֤ օ ״ ֋ ײֻ֕ ֯և , ӟ , ֮ ײֻ֕ ֯և ֟ þָ ֯ ׻֋ ךև , ֟ ׸ ֻ ֻ֮ ֟ , ֻ ָ ֟ , ׻ ß׾ ׻֋ ֺ ײֻ֕ ֯և ִֻ ־ֿ ֋Ӆ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Now, the Hon. Lady Minister, Shrimati D. Purandeswari wants to make a brief statement. If I have the sense of the House, we can permit her.




THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT (SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI): Sir, in pursuance of direction of the hon. Chairman, Rajya Sabha, published in Rajya Sabha Parliamentary Bulletin Part-II, dated 28th September, 2004, I am making this statement on the status of implementation of the recommendations contained in the Hundred Fifty-Eighth Report of the Standing Committee on Human Resource Development on Demands for Grants 2005-06 (Demand No.57) of the Department of Elementary Education and Literacy (now known as Department of School Education and Literacy), the Ministry of Human Resource Development.

The Standing Committee on Human Resource Development examined the Demands for Grants of the Department of Elementary Education and Literacy (now known as Department of School Education and Literacy), Ministry of Human Resource Development, for the year 2005-06 and presented their Hundred Fifty Eighth Report in the Rajya Sabha. The recommendations contained in the report have been examined by the Department of Elementary Education and Literacy (now known as Department of School Education and Literacy), Ministry of Human Resource Development, and an Action Taken Note on these recommendations was submitted to the Standing Committee, which was presented to Rajya Sabha on 16th December, 2005. The Department of Elementary Education and Literacy (now known as Department of School Education and Literacy), Ministry of Human Resource Development is making all efforts to implement the recommendations of the Committee in their true spirit.

I also lay herewith the status of implementation of these recommendations on the Table of the House. (Ends) (Followed by 3G)



SHRI TAPAN KUMAR SEN (WEST BENGAL): Sir, this discussion arises out of the reply of the hon. Minister in regard to the supplementary question of a Starred Question dated 31st July, 2006. The Electricity Act and the National Electricity Policy, which are framed, have promised a very cheap power, clean power and higher efficiency. Now, the hon. Minister's reply to another Unstarred Question no. 2044, on 14th August, 2006 in this House shows that after enactment of the Electricity Act, 2003, the losses incurred by the State power utilities, State Electricity Boards, have increased by Rs. 2165 crores between 2003-04 and 2004-05. Secondly, Sir, the unbundling of the State power utilities has been made a major plank of the Electricity Act, 2003 and also the National Electricity Policy, and, in fact, the unbundling process had started much before the Electricity Act was enacted, possibly from 1998 onwards. Sir, what is the experience of such unbundling? Why I am saying this is because that is one of the major planks of the Electricity Policy and the Electricity Act. And, what is the experience in this regard? For this purpose, we can take the ratings made by the CRYSIL and the ICRA in 2004. According to their ratings, out of the first six State power utilities -- in terms of the efficiency, improvement, in respect of ATC losses, etc., -- the five SEBS are of those States which were still unbundled in the year 2004. So, I think, this reflects a kind of efficiency vis-a-vis the unbundling. This aspect of the Electricity Policy requires a serious review. Then, so far as cheap power is concerned, as revealed by the Annual Reports of various State Electricity Boards, the average tariff has gone up substantially after unbundling of SEBs, compared to the pre-unbundling situation. So, the promise of cheap power stands like this. Particularly, the four States of Andhra Pradesh, Haryana, Karnataka and Rajasthan, which led in this process of exercise of unbundling of SEBs, all the financial parameters say the burden of subsidies has increased, T&D looses has increased and general loss of the State power utilities has increased. These are all records drawn from the annual reports of different State Electricity Boards. So, on this basis, through you, I would insist on the hon. Power Minister to seriously review the imposition of straightjacket model of unbundling on the States in respect of SEBs. And, when I say impose, -- it is yet to be imposed -- it is because unbundling of SEBs is being linked up with the Central assistance for power generation. I think this needs a serious review.

Another aspect, a very serious aspect, -- I think, which is required to be considered when we commit cheap power to the consumers, -- is related to the aspect of cross-subsidisation, which is being discouraged, in some cases banned, by different electricity authorities.

(Contd. by 3h/SKC)


SHRI TAPAN KUMAR SEN (CONTD.): Cross-subsidisation is an important element, if we are really to help the common people and to reach electricity to their houses. So, this should go together if the aam admi aspect of all our policies is to be maintained.

A point was raised regarding power generation, about our capacity for making power plant equipment. Different models are being thought about. But, let me say that BHEL has established its competence in meeting the national need. In view of the growing demand for power, if further adding to their capacity is required, I feel that it does not lie in creating a parallel BHEL, but in the expansion of the existing BHEL. They have the capacity and expertise to meet the national need for power equipment. They are competing globally and also getting contracts from various foreign countries successfully. That is important. The idea that is being played about, and that is appearing in the newspapers, creates an apprehension that a parallel organization is being created. That would create a lot of problems. It would create problems for the existing utilities, the existing set up, our equipment and manufacturing set up, which are doing extremely well. Our focus should be on expanding the capacity of that, instead of creating a parallel set up, given the trend of putting everything through joint ventures into the private hands. Definitely, I have serious apprehensions about that. So, on that also, complete assurance of the hon. Minister for Power is required.

Lastly, Sir, it is seen that the Government wants to expand our power capacity, to reach electricity to the consumers. But, in this process, there are cases, which the Central Power Ministry must seriously consider; certain projects are undertaken, but they are abandoned midway. I would cite only two examples. One is that in the extreme North-Eastern State of Tripura, for the Manarchak Power Project of 280 megawatts capacity, which is supposed to cater to both Tripura and Assam, everything was finalised. Land acquisition had been made. Boundary wall had been erected. More than Rs. 50 crores had already been spent. And suddenly, information came that the project is abandoned. There was absolutely no convincing logic that could be forwarded for the abandonment of the project. Yet again, in Tripura, under the NEC scheme, initiatives had been taken to put up a 21 megawatts power plant. As per the NEC Scheme, 90 per cent of the project was to be done through Central funding and 10 per cent by State funding. Again, a roadblock has been created in the operation of that scheme suddenly, when the Finance Ministry said that the funding should not be 90:10, but 70:30, although the Power Ministry, the DONER Ministry and everybody else recommended for a 90:10 funding in the execution of that scheme, in that 'blocked' State of the extreme North East. If power is to be made the lifeline of the industrial development there, these kinds of abandonment of projects indefinitely does not augur well, when we say that we want to reach power to every household within a certain period.

Therefore, Sir, I would like to request the hon. Minister that electricity is one of the most important aspects of our whole economy; firstly, please, don't make unbundling a panacea in these areas. Also, it should not be linked up with Central assistance, so that ultimately it becomes a fait accompli for those who have not done it. Let me also say that as on date, the State of Tamil Nadu has the brightest record of minimal T&D losses, which is, according to me, by far, the least in the country, and which is yet to be unbundled. So, that should not be a panacea.

Please, take care of the aspect of cross-subsidisation of electricity and also take care of the electricity tariff. We want to provide electricity to all houses, but if electricity goes beyond the affordability limit of the common people of our country, even if we keep up the generation and create additional capacity, I do not think it will help us in any way, and that should not be our approach. (Ends) (Followed by 3j)


DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, I am grateful for your kind indulgence. My predecessor speakers have put forward very valuable and constructive suggestions and none out of us is there to criticise, but we all are there to submit. All the Governments -- whether the present one or the previous one, or Governments previous to that -- have been promising these things to the people. Number one - power for all. Number two - power in plenty. Number three - power at reasonable cost. That means cheap power which everybody can afford. And, number four - power not unstable, but stable, credible and dependable. These have been promised. I need not emphasise to what extent these promises have been fulfilled so far, but promises are very vital. Whether power will be able to take care of the lowest and the lowliest; whether power will go to the poorest; whether power will go to the hamlet; whether power will go to the village; whether power will go to agriculture as a priority sector. These are all important aspects of our Energy Policy which need very careful consideration and I am sure, hon. Minister, very able Minister of Power, is considering all these points. I will make very few suggestions. One is that it is agreed that theft and leakage must be stopped. This accounts enormously as far as finances are concerned - nearly 40 per cent. Theft is a matter of shame for the Government, for the enforcement agencies and for the people as a whole also. This curse of theft must be curbed somehow. It must be brought down. It can be done if will is there. Another curse is transmission and distribution losses. That is also 40 per cent at many places, even more than that. This is because of negligence. This is because of the carelessness. This is because of inefficiency and this is because of our engineers not striving their best. Theft is one factor and distribution loss is another factor. But, they must be brought under control if we want our energy sector to be healthy. Details have already been talked about by my valued colleagues in a very detailed manner. So, I won't repeat them. At present, as far as scenario of energy complex is concerned, currently in India, in energy mix, thermal power accounts for 56 per cent followed by hydro at 25 per cent, gas at 11 per cent and nuclear at 2.8 per cent. As far as hydro is concerned, there is great potentiality which has not been exploited and my submission will be that it should be more carefully looked into. As far as statistics are concerned, according to the Central Electric Authority, hydro-electric potential of the country has been assessed at 84044 megawatts at 60 per cent load factor, that is, 84,000 megawatts. This is in reply to a question from which I am quoting, Sir. At present, what we are developing, or at present how much we are getting, is 16506 megawatts, about 16,000 MWs, that is, one-fifth of the total capacity of the hydro-electric potential of the country. There is very large scope. If all hydro-electric potential of the country is rightly utilised, we will get electricity at cheaper rates and in bulk also. It is a very important point. It must be already in their notice, but I thought that I should also make a submission about it. Another submission will be -- it will be a repetition -- that plant-load factor must improve somehow. At present, in NTPC coal stations, generated power at an average plant-load factor is 87.76. But, in many, it is 99.08, 99.10. There is definitely a scope for improvement in plant-load factor. As far as States are concerned, they are very badly off in this respect. (continued by 3k)


DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): Sir, there is one more suggestion. It must be looked into and reviewed whether we have faulted in unbundling the State Electricity Boards. I know about Rajasthan. Sir, we were one of the first States to follow the diktat of the Centre but things have not improved. There has been proliferation of the staff, of the engineers; there has been more corruption and we have not been able to help it in spite of a very competent lady being at the helm of affairs as the Chief Minister. Now, I come to my last suggestion. Your honour, I am quoting from the statistics and I will take a minute only. Sir, as far as world figures are concerned, from 1990 till now, as far as nuclear energy is concerned, the global installed capacity has increased from 327 GW to 366 GW. Globally, there are 439 reactors in operation in 31 countries and produce 16 per cent of the world's electricity, whereas, in India, we produce 2.8 per cent of the nuclear energy only. The nuclear industry in the world is worth $125 billion and is growing. The biggest dampener for nuclear power is high investment and long gestation period compared with coal, gas or hydro sources. (Time-bell) Just a minute, Sir. According to International Energy Association estimates, capital cost for nuclear power is around $2,500 per KW and for coal it is $1,000 per KW. But, ultimately, in the long run, a Nuclear Power Corporation study says if the plant is more than 1000 km away from the coal pithead, as most of our power plants are, then nuclear power is competitive. Gas plants with uninterrupted fuel supply have cost advantage over coal and nuclear energy. However, these benefits remain elusive since India imports 75 per cent of its gas without a single pipeline in place. Nuclear energy has also environment-friendly features. It produces no sulphuric acids or greenhouse gases. According to the Nuclear Energy Institute, in 2004, the United States nuclear power plants prevented 3.43 million tonnes of sulphur dioxide, 1.11 million tonnes of nitrogen oxide, and, 696.6 million metric tonnes of carbon dioxide from entering the earth's atmosphere.

Hence, my submission would be, let us look for nuclear energy also but my only caution will be not to get reactors from America, which are very costly. Don't get fuel from outside, which is costly. We have Thorium, and, we have a scientist whom we are proud of, let us take advantage of his scientific vision. Sir, I am sure -- and the hon. Minister will agree -- nuclear energy will open new vistas for us. Thank you very much for bearing with me. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): I have got some names to be added to the list. But if you strictly adhere to one minute each, then I can permit because we have already crossed.... Mrs. Durga, please put whatever question you have, in one minute. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, the Half-an-Hour discussion is becoming Two-Hour discussion. (Interruptions)

SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI: Mr. Narayanasamy, please pay attention. (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI N. P. DURGA (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, one of the objectives of the National Electricity Policy is to make availability of power to all households by 2008 and the demand would be fully met by 2012. But, to achieve this, you need resources. And, if you look at the resources provided for Ministry of Power in the Tenth Plan, it is the other way round. Sir, Tenth Plan outlay of the Ministry has been reduced by Rs. 50,000 crores. The outlay has come down from Rs. 1,43,000 crores to Rs. 92,000 crores. I would like to know from the Minister the reasons behind this, and, how the Ministry is planning to achieve the above two important goals with almost 40 per cent reduction in its outlay.

Sir, the Electricity Policy emphasises on time-bound reduction of T&D losses. In this connection, I wish to know: whether it is a fact that according to the Planning Commission, the aggregate Technical and Commercial Losses (AT&C) stand at 40 per cent and it is sought to bring AT&C losses to 25 per cent by the end of the Eleventh Five Year Plan. (Contd. by sk-3L)


SHRIMATI N.P. DURGA (CONTD.): If yes, to achieve the above target, whether it is true that the Ministry is planning to reduce 3 per cent ATC losses annually. If so, whether it has come to the notice of the Government that a Delhi-based company, KLG Systel, claims to have achieved a 10-20 per cent drop in ATC losses in a year by adopting a new and unique SG61 technology products. (Time-bell). If so, whether the Government will study this technology to reduce the ATC losses of power.

Sir, I would like to know whether the Government is working on any scheme to create a chain of power stations along the Indian coasts. If yes, whether the locations have been identified by the Government for this purpose. If so, I request the hon. Minister to kindly let us know the locations identified in the State of Andhra Pradesh. And, whether this is a part of the National Electricity Policy. If so, what is the anticipated power that is going to be generated through the proposed coastal power stations and how the Government is going to meet the expenditure in the light of the depleted outlay in the Tenth Plan. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI DINESH TRIVEDI): Thank you, very much. Shrimati Maya Singh, you have got just one minute. One straight question, whatever you can ask.

ߴ֟ ֵ (֬ Ϥ) : ֳ֬ , ֯ ִ֬ ӡ ֮ ֟ - ֕ electricity crisis ̸ , ָ ָָ ֤ ׻֋ ֮ ֬ Ϥ ֮ ־י , և ־ ײֻ֕ ״ֻ , Ӥ פ ֵ ׾֪ ־ ֬ Ϥ ָָ ֮ Ϥ ׾ ֵ ֮ , , ׯ֔ ׾֢ߵ 2005-06 777 ײֻ֕ ֮ ־ָ ؛ ׮ֵ ָߤ ָ֤֟ , ֕ ׾֪ ӛ ־ָ ؛ ׮ֵ ִ֬ ׬ 滵 ָ ֮ ָָ ֕ ׾֪ ֺ , ׻֋ ֬ Ϥ ָָ և ־ ײֻ֕ ״ֻ , ֕ Ӥ , ֕ ײֻ֕ ׬ ָ ׬ 滵 ָ ׾֪ ־ָ ؛ ׮ֵ - ָ ֬ Ϥ ָָ ײֻ֕ , և ־, ָ Ӥ ֱ ֮ ָָ ֬ Ϥ և ־ ײֻ֕ , ױ ֻ , ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

ֳ֬: ָ֮ , ֱ ״֮֙ ׻֋օ ߕ... stretch , ֮ ֤ stretch פ

ָ֮ (׸) : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֬ , ֤ ײֻ֕ ָ ֵ , .. ֻ ָ , ֳ ֛ ӡ experienced ֱ ־ֻ , פ Ӳ , ײֻ֕ ™ ׸ , פ ӕֲ , ӡ , ׻֋ ֯ ? ֛ ָ ָ It has become a law and order problem. ߴ ֟ , ֵ֤ ֻ , ֻ , ֕ ӕֲ, ׸ פ ו֮֟ ֌ ־֮Դ curse , ײֻ֕ , ֓ ׻֋ , ֮ ׻֋ ֟ add ֻ ܵ ӡ , ָ כ ײֻ֕ ָߤ ׸ ֋ ׸ ײֻ֕ ֻ֟ , ֵ? ײֻ֕ ֻ և ? ֟ ?

, ׸ ִָ֮ ִԻ ־ָ ә ֮ ֮ ֵ, ֵօ ָָ ֤, ָ ִ ֵ? ӡ , ֯ ִ intervene ָָ ֤֮ ִֻ֯ ִ , ֟ ? ....(־֮֬)....

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־) : ֯ ִֵ ו֋, ֳ

ָ֮ : ָ, ֬ ״֮֙ ׻ֵ (ִ֯)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sarkar, you have got just half a minute. Please ask just one straight question.

SHRI MATILAL SARKAR (TRIPURA): As regards the proposed power projects, Mr. Tapan Kumar Sen has given a brief. Now, I am just to add one thing, because several correspondences have been made ...(Interruptions).. In the Tripura Legislative Assembly, an all-party delegation met the hon. Power Minister on the Monachak Power Project of Tripura. Infrastructure has been completed. Crores of rupees have been spent. It is public money. The Minister says that that does not matter. I am the last man to take it for granted. (Contd. by ysr-3m)


SHRI MATILAL SARKAR (CONTD.): Public money worth crores of rupees has been spent. And what is the argument? The argument is that in Palatana, there would be a big project, and, that is why, there will be shortage of gas. Who says that there is shortage of gas? For Monarchak, the shortage of gas was told from the very beginning. It was of 500 MW. It was downsized to 280 MW on the question of gas. Now, the Palatana project would be of about 1000 MW. So, it proves that there is sufficient gas. My earnest request to the Minister is that Monarchak Project should be taken up. On the Palatana Project, we are told that the progress is not as per schedule. That has to be taken care of by the hon. Minister.


SHRI MATILAL SARKAR: As regards Baramura Power Plant..


SHRI MATILAL SARKAR: One minute, Sir. This is a very mysterious thing. All the NEC projects would be funded in the ratio of 90:10. It is the admitted decision of the Government. Ninety per cent would be grant from the Central Government and ten per cent would be loan. In regard to Baramura, they are saying the ratio would be 70:30. The power would be distributed among the North-Eastern States, not Tripura alone, then why should the Government of Tripura bear that 30 per cent? So, the ratio must be 90:10. I think only the Finance Ministry is opposing it. I request the UPA Government, if necessary the Prime Minister even, to take it up seriously and clear all these three projects. We are having the gas reserves.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, you must give some time to the hon. Minister.

SHRI MATILAL SARKAR: It is the second biggest reserves in the country. This gas should be used.

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ (™ߵ ֮֕֬ , פ) : ָ, פߠ ָ ֮֕֬ ֲ ָ , ֲ Ӡ ָ ־֙ ײֻ֕ , ֯ ִ֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ܾß ָ ָ ײֻ֕ ֻ֮ ֮֟ , ֮ ֮֋ ֮ ׻֋ ֯ פ ֤ ײֻ֕ և ֯ ֮ ߅


SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS (CHHATTISGARH): Sir, you had allowed me. I will not take even one minute. I am an electrical engineer. I would like to give only one suggestion. It is a fact that hydro-stations are capital-intensive and energy charges are the lowest. So, we have to look at this capital-intensive angle. In modern days, lots of pravasi bhartiya are coming to help the country. I am sure you must have taken them into confidence. They have already proposed to develop so many industries at so many places. If these hydro-stations are developed, the country will get neat, clean, and cheaper electricity. I hope the Government has entered into some agreement or might have talked to our pravasi bhartiya who can develop electrical industries like this.

Another point is regarding the sources from Nepal, the rivers that are coming from Nepal. Nepal is the only country, which has open border with us. Nepal is the country which is relying for its whole administration on us. I request the hon. Minister to kindly think on these lines and add to our store of energy. (ENDS)

׾֪ ӡ ( ߻ ָ ׿֮) : ֳ֬ , ִ֤ Ͼֻ ӟ ֛פ ֣ ֤õ ֮־֤ ֯ ׾ֵ ָ, ֕֠ ָ ֬ ә ֓ ã֟ 꿓֮ ׾ֵ ֵ , ׻֋ ָ ֬ ә ֓ ևԅ ֮֟ ӟ ֛פ ָ ױ ֟և , ָָ ױ , ׻֋ ֮־֤ ֠

(NB/3N ָ ֿ:)