SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (contd.): But they have to be reached. When this is the situation, should we not support the Resolution?

Now, coming to the North-Eastern States, Shri V. Narayanasamy has already mentioned that in these States, there are various districts covering large areas of land with less population. I must appreciate the fact that he has talked about all the regions and have brought to the notice of the Government the difficulties faced by these people. His Resolution covers the entire nation.

Now, the fourth part of the Resolution says, "If population criteria is adopted for delimiting the constituencies, the cities get more representation than the rural areas because of the high concentration of the population." What about Uttarahalli? The total population is 15 lakhs or 20 lakhs. Sir, this is the position not only of Karnataka but also of other States including Delhi, Hyderabad and Chennai. Everywhere the situation is the same. Now, if the Government is going to say, "No; we cannot interfere. We cannot recommend it", I want to clarify that the law does permit it. They can do it. They cannot say, "Everything is closed. We are not in a position to hear anybody. The Government cannot interfere." Sir, Parliament can interfere. If the Members of Parliament, across political parties, support it, and if this Resolution is passed, then, they have to listen to the voice of Parliament. They cannot ignore it.

The next point in his Resolution is: "The elected representatives, who have become Associate Members of the Delimitation Commission have not been given the powers of voting at the time of taking decision under the Delimitation Act, which infringes the rights of the Members." Now, we all know about the Delimitation Commission. Now, these representatives, who have become Associate Members of this Commission, should be given importance and their voice should be heard. These Members might say, "These are the difficulties. You rectify them. Otherwise, we will vote against you." So, Sir, the voice of the representatives of the people should be heard. We sometimes think that these Commissions, these autonomous bodies, have become untouchables. This is so because they do not want to listen to the views of their elected representatives. We don't agree with that. And, I am sure that Mr. Narayanasamy also will not agree with that. That is why he has come up with this Resolution. The Government should look into the practical difficulties. The Resolution does state, "This House resolves that the Government should look into the practical difficulties being experienced by various States while delimiting the constituencies." Apart from the population criterion, we should also take into account the topography of the area, the number of districts, physical features, etc. Sir, here, I would emphasise that these Associate Members should also be provided with voting powers. This Resolution is within the purview of Section 9.

Sir, we sometimes see how the State Governments politicise the whole issue. For instance, I would like to state here -- I am not naming anybody -- what the position in Uttar Pradesh is. As we know, at Shahjehanpur constituency, the population of the Scheduled Castes stands at 17.49 per cent, and it is 17.65 per cent in the Aonla constituency. (Continued by 3B)


SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD.): Now, the allegation is, what is reported in the newspaper is, -- it is an important national newspaper, The Times of India -- because this constituency, i.e., Shahjehanpur is a Congress fort, the SP and also the BJP -- sorry, please don't blame me -- they want to make it as a Scheduled Caste constituency. How are they doing it? They have brought down the population of Scheduled Castes from 17.65 per cent to 15.65 per cent. It should not have happened. We should be fair. The former Chief Election Commissioner, Dr. M.S. Gill has stated that they should be fair. Yes, they should be fair. It should be balanced. Yes, it should be balanced. If it is not fair, whether the Government can sleep over the matter? So, there, the Government can interfere, and point out to the Commission, 'here is your flaw, the anomaly is here, and you should rectify it.'

So, Sir, what I am submitting is, this Resolution is a fair Resolution. It is within the ambit of the law. Irrespective of party affiliations, Members of all the parties have stated that people's voice should be heard, and the Government can recommend to the Commission. The Government should interfere when there is anomaly, when there is no fairness. Hence, I request the entire House to pass this Resolution. And, I once again congratulate Shri V. Narayanasamy for coming before this House with this very good Resolution. (Ends)

0 ִ ӛָ (ײָ) : ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ֮֮ߵ ֤õ 0 ִֵָ ֮־֤ ֻ ׸ߴ֮ ִ ־׸ ךև ֟ ׸ߴ֮ ׬׮ִֵ ӿ֮ ׻֋ ֤ ß

, , ָ ִֵ ׸ߴ֮ ֮ܵ ֤֮ ֵ֮ ֮ܵ ָ֬ ָ ׸ߴ֮ ֻ ֕ ןִ ׬֮ ָ և , וִ ִ֟ ִֵָ ֕ כ ֕ Ù ֕ ֱ ߔ ãן ׸ , ֳ 꿓֮ 186, פ 3.3.2006, ָ Ù֠ ָ ןִ ׬֮ ָ ֟ - ֌ ֮, ָֺ ֡ ָ , ֕ ׮־ԓ֮ ֵ㌟ ִָֿ, ֨ ֤õ ִָֿ, ־և ױ ןִ ׬֮օ Ù ָ ׸ߴ֮ ָև , ֟ , ָ ָ֬ ֵ֮ ֵ , ֱ ֮ܵ, פ ֱ ָ֬ ָ ׸ߴ֮ ִ֟ ׸ߴ֮ ,

, ָ ײָ ֟ , ֛-֛ פ ָ ײָ , ֻ ֟ ('3c/sch' ָ ָ)


. ִ ӛָ (֟): ֜ ִֵ ָ ֮ ׿ ֱ ֟ , ֛-֛ פ , ֻ , ֛ ָ ׻ ׸ãןֵ ִ֮ ֟ ׸ߴ֮ , ֛ ךև ִ֮ ֛օ

, ֲ ׾֮֬ ֳ ־ , . ֻ ܵ ־ ֵ㌟ , ו ֟ , ϳ־ֻֿ , ־ ֛ ꅠ ׾֮֬ ֳ ־ ֛ ֕ ̤֕ ֮ ϵ ֕ ֵ ֋, ָ ֮ ϵ ֤ ִ , ִֵ ־ָ ָ ߱ ״׮Ù , ׻֋ ֟ ֻ ֟ ֻ ֟ օ ֯ ֮֟ ֻ ә - Ͽ֮ ֤ , ֤ 50 ןֿ֟ ָ ֟ , ִֵ 98% 99% ֱ ֤ ָ , ָ ֻ֟ ߅

ִֵ ׸ִ֮ ӲӬ ֲָ ״ֻ , ֳ ׸ߴ֮ ו Ù ָ , ָ ֛ ֤ - ֤ , ֻ ֟ ִֵ ӓ-֟ ߙ ֮ ׻֋ פ ֤ ָ ֯ ֻ ֋, ֲ ֯ ә ә , ָ ֋, ֮ ׻֋ 14-15 ә ֟ , ׻֋ ִ ָ ֻ ֟ ־ և ֻ ֟ ִֵ ֮ ׸ߴ֮ , ִ ָ ֳ - ָ ׾֮֬ ֳ ֻ , ָ ꅠ פ ׻ ãן ֮ ֟ ׸ߴ֮ ֟ , ֛ ךև ߅

־ ֛ ׻֋ ו֮֟ ִֵ ״ֻ֟ , ֕ ִֵ ״ֻ֟ , ״֮֮ և ֤ ִֵ ״ֻ֟ , ֮ ִֵ ־ ֛ ָ ֱ ֮ ֮ ׻֋ ߮ פ ֋, ױ ־ ֛ ֮֟ ߓ ֋? ׻֋ , ִֵָ ֯ , ֨ ֤õ ֓ 

ꌿ֮ ״ֿ֮ ֻ ֮ ױ ָ ֵԾ ֻ ָ ׻ ãן , ֌ ָ , ָ և Ùָ Ӳ׬֟ ׬ָ ֮ ִõ ָ ֟ ꌿ֮ ״ֿ֮ ֮ ױ , ֌ ָ Ùߙߕ ֮֟ ֮, Ù ֮, ֮֟ ֟ , ײ ׸י ֟ , ֻ ֮֟ ׾׳֮ ٙ - ־ ֳ ٙ ׸ߴ֮ ™ , ו ֙ ֵ֤ ꅠ ֳ ֟ ֤, ֮֟ ֵ ֮ ֤ ָ ׸ߴ֮ ֵԾ , ׬ ד֟ օ ׻֋ ӱÙָ ֮ ֛ ָ֬ Ӹ֮ ֯ ָ֬ Ӹ֮ ײ ׸י, ֮֟ , ֵ ־׸ , ֲ ֟ ֮֮ ֤ ׸ߴ֮ ֵ ֮֋Ӆ ֻ ִ , ִ , ֤ ֺ ׸ߴ֮ , ֮֟ ֮ ײ ׸י , ׾׳֮ ٙ ߤָ , ֮ ִֵ ־ ־ ־ ϓָ ֵ ָ ֵ , ָ ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ־ ֛ , ִ ָ ָ ִ

MCM/3D ָ ֿ:


0 ִ ӛָ (֟) : ֮ ִֵ ֯ ׻֋ , ִֵָ ֮־֤ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ִ ָ ӿ֮ ֋ ï™ ׻ ãן , ָ֬ ֵ֮ ֋, ֮֟ ׸ϕי ׬ָ ִ֟ ָ ִ ãן ֋, ֟ ߅ ׸ߴ֮ ָ ֋ ãן ֋ ָ ֟ ֮ ֟ ֮֮ߵ ӡ , ־ֿ ӿ֮ , ꅠ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

ߴ֟ ׾֯־ (ֻ֓ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , - ֮־֤, ֮֯ ֮ פօ ִֵָ ׸ߴ֮ ײֻ ֋ , ֋ , כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ , ָ ֤֕ ֤ ־ , ֤ ֵ כ-׻״֮֙ , ָ כ-׻״֮֙ ִֵ օ Ùߙ֮ ֵ ߱ Ù ָ ߴ ׸ֵ֛ ֕ ָ ꅠ ֤ - כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֮֟ ֋ 2002 כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֮ ִ և ׸ֵ֛ ֕ ָ ָ ꌿ֮ ߿֮ ָ ָ ָ Ù ߿֮֠ ָ ָ ߮ ָ כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֮օ ֣-֣ ִߙ , ו֮ Ӥ כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ִ , ִ ֲ ֛ ֟ , -ֲ֤߅ כ-׻״֮֙ ֵ Ù ֮ Ùߙ ֮ , ֲ ֻ֓ Ùߙ ָ ֮ , ֮ ә ״׮Ù֮ ׮֙ ׻ֵ ״׮Ùי ׮֙ כÙ , ֯ , ֯ ׻ Ù֮ , - Ù - ״׮Ùי ׮֙ ׻֋ ֮ ִ ֺ ָ ֻ֓ 65 ߲ ֮ , 68 Ùߙߕ ֯ ִ ә ו֋ ״׮Ù֮ ׮֙ , ָ , ָ ֮֋ ֟ ֳ֯ן , ֻ֓ , ֮֟ ֛ וֻ 16 Ùߙߕ ֮ ֲ ֣ כÙ ֜և ֛ ָ Ùߙ ׻֋ ֮ և׸ ִ , כÙ ״׮Ùי ׮֙ , ִ ֯ ָ֙ ו֋ ו֋, כÙ ־ֿ כÙ ָ ֮֋ ֲ ֮ ָ ә ֟ , Ùߙߕ ֮ ֟ ֲ ֯ כÙ ׸ , ֋ כÙ ֮֟ ֟ ܵ ӡ ֵ כÙ ֮ פօ ָ 12 כÙ 14 ֮ ֟ , 16 ֮ ֟ , ֲ ֈޛ ׸ ? ׻֋ ִ ֮ ֈޛ ֟ և ִ ֮ ֺ כÙ ֙ כÙ ә (3E ָ ֿ:)


ߴ֟ ׾֯־ (֟) : ָ ֟ ֲ ߿֮ ֮, ֣ ׿֋ 괲 ֵ ׻֋ ׿֋ 괲 ֵ ׿֋ 괲 ? , ׾֮֬ ֳ ٻִֵ ֤õ , ָ ֵ, ו֮ ׾ , ׸ϕәי , ׿֋ 괲 ꅠ ָ , ִ ֵ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ , ׿֋ 괲 ֣ ״ֻ ְ ֵ֮օ

ֳ֯ן , ? ֕ և , ӛָ , ֌ ֟ ְ ֮ פ ֟ , ׿֋ 괲 ֤ ֟ , ֻ Ùߙ֮ ֵ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ , ׿֋ 괲 ֣ ״ֻ ְ ֵ֮, ׌ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ױ ְ ֮ פ ֟ ױ ֋ 괲 ִ֮ ֟ ְ , ֯ ֟և, ִ ֟ , ָ ֵ , ֮֟ , ֋֋ , ֯ , ֮֟ ֛ , ׸ , ֙ , ֮ , ָ ֮ ֛, ߿֮ ֮֟ ׻֋ ְ ֮֮ , ֋ 괲 , ׿֋ 괲 ִ ״ֻ , ֜ ִ ֟ ֕ և , ֲ ߿֮ ֮ , ֲ ֻ֮ , Ӥ , Ù ֈ 괲ָ , ֳ 괲 , ׿֋ 괲 , glorified effiges , ִ , ׻֋ 괲 ֵ֮ ֵ , ׿֋ 괲 , ֣ ߿֮ ֕ ֮֕ ֮ ־ ֮ ֋֋ ֯ ֮ ֟ , ו - ָ ֻ , ֮֟ , , Ϥ ָ ֈӛ ֮ ? ָ ֣ ִ ֮֕ן ֵ, ֮֟ ִ ֮֕ן ֟ , ߱ ״׮Ù ֵ֟ ֵ 00 ? ָ , ׻֋ ִ ֮֕ן ֟ , ִ ׻ֵ֟ ֟ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֮ , ֮ ָ֮, ׻֋ ָ , Ùߙ ֮-֮ ֋ 15 ߙ, 20 ߙ ֮ ֛, ֵ֤ ?

ֳ֯ן , ִ֟ ִֵָ ֵ , ־ ֵ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ־ ָ Ͽ ֵ , ׻֋ ׿֋ 괲 , ֣-֣ ׾֮֕ ָ כ֯ ָ ׮ֵ֯֙ , ָ ߙ פ ֋, ו ֵ ֟ ׿֋ 괲 ,

ֳ֯ן , ֟։ ֲ ظ , ײ ظ , ִ ֲ ײ ظ , ֲ ָ ֟  ֟ ײ ֵ ֟ , ײ ֮ ֟ ֟֟ , ֟ ִ ָ ֤ ָ ָ ָ ױ ײ ظ ׻֋ ֟ , ֲ ײ ֵ ֟ , ֟ ָ ֻ֓ , ֯ ֟֟ ָ ָ 36 Ùߙߕ , ֲ 36 Ùߙߕ פ , ? ֳ֯ן , ֮ ֟ ֟ , ֮ , ֮ ߛ , ׻֋ ִ ֟ ־ֿ

1991 , 2001 , ִ ֺ , ֤ ֲֵֻ ֵ֮ ֲ ו ֋ , ֿ֋ , ָ ָ ָ ߿֮ ֮֮ ִ ֮ ֲ , ϕ֟ӡ , ֮ ֟ , ױ ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ? ָ ֮֟ , ״ֻ ֮ ֟ , ֮ ֟ ֮־ ? ׻֋ ִ֟ և 껵֮ ֮֮ߵ ִֵָ ֋ , ִ ֺ ֲ ֣ ִ - ֮־֤ (ִ֯) (3 ָ )


SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (GOA): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, we are having delimitation of the constituencies after many, many years. In fact, when the process started, the Act provided that the 1991 Census figures should be taken into consideration. Thereafter, Members from both the Houses wanted that the latest figures of the 2001 Census should be taken into account. Accordingly, the Act was amended and the process has now begun. The process is going on at a very, very slow pace. It is learnt that only a few States have been covered and notifications have been published in the respective State Gazettes. In many other States, the process is on with draft notification being circulated to the members, etc. We are not aware as to when this process is going to be completed. Actually, everyone is in a dilemma from what date, after the completion of the process, the new delimitation constituencies will be notified. Therefore, I would appeal to the hon. Minister that a clear-cut position, as regards to enforceability of the proposed delimitation process, should be conveyed to the members. It is because Members of the other House have to prepare themselves accordingly. Sir, Assembly elections are due in some States. They have to prepare themselves accordingly. Therefore, last minute announcement of enforcement would create problems for many Assembly candidates, especially in several States where elections are going to be held. Now, Sir, basically, as Poojaryji has pointed out, certain elements, certain basic criterion, which is laid down in law, has to be observed in the matter of delimitation. The law says, 'All constituencies shall, as far as practicable, be geographically compact areas and in delimitating them regard shall be had to physical features, existing boundaries of administrative units, facilities of communication and public convenience.' These are very crucial elements which the Delimitation Commission has to take into consideration. As has been pointed out by my previous speaker, we consider maps and go ahead with the process. Now, the latest is there before us. If it is there before the Commission, many of the areas could be easily accessible. Today, if a map is available with the Commission, it would be easy to go to the site to see where the rivers are and where the boundaries are. But, the Commission will take into consideration this Google website -- where it is not completed -- for the purpose of having a proper topographical features of each constituency. (CONTD. BY "3G")


SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD.): The first aspect -- and which is shocking to note -- to which I would like to bring to your notice is that the political parties, which are the basis of democracy, have no representation in the meetings of the Delimitation Commission. Representation is there to associate Members, who are either MPs or MLAs. When MPs or MLAs represent before the Commission, irrespective of political parties, they basically look after the interests of their respective constituencies. If they found that the Commission is inclined towards his proposal, with respect to his constituency, then, throughout the proceedings the MLA or the MP keeps quiet. Whereas, in fact, he has to represent the other constituency matters, as has been given to him by his political party. He has to look after the interest of that political party of the entire State, but not to hurt the chairperson of the Commission, or, anybody else. The tendency on the part of the MLAs or MPs, who are associating Members, is to keep quiet. Therefore, recognized national parties, recognized State parties have to be given a representation in the Delimitation Commission, without which the representative aspect of the Commission is zero in my opinion.

Secondly, Sir, I would like to submit that when Goa became State, there was a special Delimitation Order because the constituencies were converted from 30 of the Union Territories into 40. At that time, I recollect that Revenue Villages were the units for the purpose of consultation. And, rightly so, because the Revenue Village unit is one of the fundamental basis for considering an area. Now, when the delimitation has been done in Goa, last year, there is no mention of Revenue Villages. What has been imported is what is known as sajas and circles. I am not aware of this nomenclature. But this nomenclature is known to my colleagues from other States. These words -- sajas and circles -- have basically been taken from Maharashtra. When the Revenue Village is a proper identifiable unit, without taking into consideration the views of the any Associate Member, how could the Delimitation Commission take up different units as a criterion? In fact, representations were made to the Commission that we should stick to the old norm of considering Revenue Villages as units, as the terms sajas and circles are unknown to the State of Goa. Even in Maharashtra, these terms are used in revenue courts, but they are not widely used. Even there, the Revenue Villages are better known; their boundaries, their areas are better known. Therefore, the Delimitation Commission has to look into this aspect.

Public hearings take place for determining the boundaries of constituencies. In these public hearings, the attitude of the Commission, with due respect to the Members and the Commission, is to take the public hearings very lightly. They consider that whatever there has to be done by the Commission is going to be final, and they have to have some sort of lip service by holding some public hearings. This is the most unfair thing. (Contd. by 3H -- VP)


SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD.): I would say that today there are more intelligent people in public. There are engineers, architects, social workers who can throw better light on these aspects. Therefore, representation given to the Delimitation Commission by members of public should be given due respect. I would submit that each and every representation, given by members of public, should be personally heard by the Commission.

Then, Sir, as far as ratio of associate member is concerned, there is a flaw in the legislation. There is a flaw in the sense that the ratio, that is, the portion; nomination made by the hon. Speaker of Lok Sabha and Speakers in the Assemblies shall have due regard to the composition of the House. Now, Sir, as per composition of the House, the Presiding Officers nominate associate members. Now, if this decision of the hon. Speaker is not correct, there is no remedy in the Delimitation Act. There is absolutely no remedy. The Commission cannot do anything, and no other authority can do anything. I will give an example of how and why we were aggrieved. In Goa when the BJP Government was ruling, the Delimitation Commission was coming up there; the process started. The BJP had 17 members and the Congress had 16 members. The BJP got four associate members and the Congress got one associate member. We protested over that. The Speaker did not hear us. The Chairperson of the Delimitation Commission said that there was no provision in the Act whereby he could dispose of such a complaint. He has no power. Once the Presiding Officer decides the number, it is final and, rightly so, because in the Act it is said that it is final. Therefore, there must be some remedy provided. We cannot expect such things happening in all the places. But, imagine, Sir, we had 16 MLAs, the other party had 17 MLAs, but they got four associate members and we got one. And we could do nothing. Therefore, this aspect also has to be considered.

Then, another aspect which has been pointed out just now is very important. It is regarding the initial draft to be placed before the Commission. Who has to prepare it? The initial draft is prepared by the bureaucrats. And when it is prepared, the Ruling Party of the concerned State has all the influence in preparing that draft. The Commission entrusts the officers of the State Government to prepare the draft. When the Commission is a very high and an independent body, this job is done by them. Therefore, it has been rightly pointed out just now that the initial draft should be prepared in consultation with the associate members. Therefore, in the first meeting there should be no draft. In the first meeting there should a general discussion regarding the draft. And, afterwards, the draft prepared in consultation with the associate members should be placed before the Commission in the next meeting.

Then, Sir, another aspect is this. In Goa, as per 2001 Census, there were no Scheduled Tribes because till that time, the three communities which were declared as Scheduled Tribes, were not declared so before the Census. They were declared after the Census. When the Delimitation Commission came, we presented a memorandum before the Commission to state that after your constitution these three communities should be declared as Scheduled Tribes. Therefore, kindly order the Registrar of Census to have a special Census with respect to these three communities and submit the report. (Continued by PK/3J)


SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK (CONTD.): ....or approach the Government of India for the purpose. The Delimitation Commission did not hear us at all. As a result, the draft has been published-- it is finalised -- and the three communities, the major communities, which have been declared as Scheduled Tribe will have no representation in the next Assembly of Goa, which is most unfortunate. This job could have been done by a special Census in one month's time, but the Commission did not pay any regard for this. Even at this late stage, if the hon. Law Minister intervenes, I think, this aspect can be fulfilled. Then, Sir, it is something related to Members of this House. Why we, Members of Rajya Sabha, should not find a place? Do we have no intelligence? Can't we throw any light on the Commission? In fact, we can do it more independently because Members of the other House have their own interest.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: More objectively.

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: Yes, more objectively. Because we represent a whole State; therefore, it is very humiliating. When the Commission comes, the people will come to know that only Lok Sabha Members are there, Rajya Sabha Members are not there. It becomes very humiliating for us, even otherwise, Sir. Therefore, this aspect also need to be considered by the Commission. With these words, I conclude. Thank you. (Ends)

THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI H.R. BHARDWAJ): Hon. Deputy Chairman, Sir, this is a very important issue which was raised by my friend, Shri V. Narayanasamy, by way of a Private Members' Resolution. As a matter of fact, this House is aware that two laws were passed -- one was the Constitution (Eighty-fourth Amendment) Act, 2001, and the other was Delimitation Act, 2002; and, pursuant to these two enactments, a Commission was set up, headed by Justice Kuldip Singh along with other Members who were associated, according to the scheme of the law. After that, Members are aware that the Election Commission has gone at a very rapid speed. They have completed the task in Goa, Kerala, Tripura, Mizoram, Rajasthan, West Bengal, Punjab, the Union Territory of Pondicherry, and they are also at an advanced stage of the work in the States of Chhatisgarh, Himachal Pradesh, Orissa, Punjab, Sikkim and the National Capital Territory of Delhi. It will be thus seen that the Election Commission's work is in full swing and the Election Commission is a creation of a statute of a law which was passed by both Houses of Parliament almost unanimously. But during the course of this work, several people have represented difficulties. As a matter of fact, it is not a regular delimitation, according to my understanding of matters, because delimitation, according to the Constitution, is not taking place because we have frozen the seats of both the Lok Sabha as well as in the Assembly up to 2025 or so. You cannot increase the number of seats but, yet, you are dividing the total number of seats with the population of the State so that they can be rationalised. Each Parliamentary constituency or Assembly constituency should, as far as possible, have equal number of voters. Then, there is a little rotation of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribe seats. These are two things that are being attempted to. But even during this attempt, as you must have noticed, there are a lot of difficulties which are being faced particularly in smaller States, North-Eastern States,


particularly, where tribal population are up in arms. We must maintain the prestige of all tribes and give them, at least, one seat each; so, they must get, in order to protect the tribal culture. Secondly, in smaller States, there is a problem of the people settled in the hill States and then in the plains. There is another problem which has been brought to my notice, particularly, from Karnataka and Maharashtra that urban seats have increased, but rural seats have decreased. These representations have been received through our hon. Members of Parliament. The Chief Ministers have also spoken to me. I have already taken up these issues with the Delimitation Commission and it has promised to look into it. Similarly, all other matters of North-East, Sikkim, Mizoram and all smaller States have been taken up with the Delimitation Commission. (Contd. by 3K/PB)


SHRI H.R. BHARDWAJ (CONTD.): But you must appreciate one basic difficulty that the Delimitation Commission is bound by certain criteria which are enumerated in the laws which were passed by both Houses of Parliament, and there is not much room for it to deviate from the norms. So, a consultation process is going on nowadays, with all political parties as to whether we can change the guidelines, so that all these aberrations are removed. And, according to my understanding, as hon. Members have pointed out, we will have to give it a fresh look because if this system of delimitation continues, there are bound to be quite big hardships in elections. So, we can definitely look into all these things. I have already forwarded those representations which have been received from all the States to the Delimitation Commission, and I wish the Delimitation Commission should do justice to them. But if necessary, we may have to even come back to say that 'some guidelines may be changed'; but that would not be in the competence of the Delimitation Commission. For that, I may have to seek consensus of all political parties so that we can change the guidelines in favour of the smaller States in order to give them a better deal. Similarly, we need to do something for removing the hardships of the urban folk and the rural folk. The rural people are suffering. Their seats are getting minimised. The urban people are getting more seats. ...(Interruptions)... With regard to hilly areas, I would like to say that the people of the hilly areas, in particular, need a special deal because there the population is such that the hilly people will lose almost everything. So, this needs a careful consideration. I am very happy that my dear friend, Mr. Narayanasamy, has brought forward this Resolution. I am very grateful to him and all other hon. Members who have drawn the attention of the Government to this very important issue. I need your help. I need some time to look into it because I will have to consult major political parties for this purpose, because the last two laws were passed -- the Constitutional Amendment as well as the Delimitation Act -- by unanimous opinion of all the political parties.

Then, we also have one very important issue pending with us, i.e., providing thirty-three per cent reservation to women. I am very seriously thinking that if we can agree, then, we can pass another Constitutional Amendment and increase the number of seats to the extent of thirty-three per cent or whatever is agreed to, and include them in that, so that they can also be given to the Delimitation Commission. All these matters ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Will the Women's Reservation Bill be brought in this Session or the next Session?

SHRI H.R. BHARDWAJ: No; no; today I am only doing a thinking that in case we need to amend the Constitution, we should also provide those separate seats, so that they can have thirty-three per cent seats by increasing the number of seats. Today, there are no seats because we have frozen it. So, these two aspects, these two laws, will have to be reviewed essentially. ...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ֵ : ָ, ֻ ו֋, ִ

ָ֕ ָ֕ : ִ , ִõ֋ ֮ Ùߙ֮ ߙ freeze פ , ֮֜ ׻֋ ӕև ֛օ ִ ָ ־֮Դ ָ High Power Committee ֮ , ׾׳֮ ֣ ָ ן ֮ ׿ֿ ֮ , ָ ׮ ִ

ָ כ׻״֮֙ , ֮ ֻ-ֻ פ օ ֕ ֕ , ֯ ֬ Ϥ , ևֻ ֮ פ ֵ ֛ ׿ֵ֟ ֯ ֜ ֋, ֕ ׸ׯϕ֮ , -Ù , ֜ , ֜ ևֻ Ù ָ ԙ ָ ֮ ׸֕ ߙ և ָ߲ , Ѿ , ִ ӓֻ , ߙ ָ ֮ ֮ ֛օ ָ ֮֕ן ִ ӓֻ ָ ׮ ꅠ -- ֮ ֯, ֋֋ ֮ ׬ָ ׻֋ ָ ֲ ן ֋, ָ پָ֓ ׻֋ כ׻״֮֙ ־֮֬ ָ ׸֕ 40 ָ, 30 ָ, 25 ָ כ , ֮ ߙ ߙ, , ֻ , ֻ֟ Ӆ (3 ָ ֿ:)


ָ֕ ָ֕ (֟) : -Ù relaxation , ָ , ִ סֵ ܵ , -Ù ָ ևֻ ӡ ָ , ָ , , ָ ֛ ӳ߸ ֮ ֛ ׸껵֮ ֛ ֻ ״ֻօ ָ֬ ָ ־֮Դ ָ כ׻״֮֙ ֵֻ֮ ֮ ֺ ִ ֻ complete ֵ , ֮ ָָ ן ָ כ׻״֮֙ ֣ ߱և օ ׻֋ ֯ Ù-ֻ ֮ ߙ ָ ꌿ֮ ָ כ ֮ ߙ ָ כ׻״֮֙ ֨ן , ָ ָ ׻֋ ֣ ߅ ֯ ו֮֟ ׾ָ֓ ֋ , ֛ ֮֯ ִ, ׿ֿ implement ֲ כ׻״֮֙ օ ָ ָ ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ָ Assemblies ֤õ ָ ӟ™ ָ ӟ™ ׻֋ ֯ ֳָ

SHRI SHANTARAM LAXMAN NAIK: Sir, elections to the Goa Assembly are due next year, in May. That is the reason for my concern.

THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI H.R. BHARADWAJ): Sir, I have already suggested that all delimitation work would be notified in one go throughout the country, including the Assemblies. Therefore, I am keeping that notification in abeyance. I have already made it clear. Whether it is Goa or any other State, we shall go through the exercise. There are two points that are being considered seriously. One is, the demand from the weaker sections, and the other is, the urban-rural population. There are some suggestions, which are under consideration, and are at an advanced stage, and the Government is likely to take a decision in consultation with the political parties. Only then you will know whether we are accepting the delimitation, as is being accomplished now, or we resort to other guidelines. We may have to change the guidelines; Section 9 itself lays down the population criterion, which, according to me, is not a very sound criterion because this cannot be done in smaller States.

Therefore, I request my friend, Shri Narayanasamy, to accommodate me and allow me some more time so that I can resolve his difficulties! Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY (PONDICHERRY): Sir, I am very grateful to the hon. Minister for his very candid speech, and also the hon. Members of Parliament, who have participated in the discussion on this very important subject of bringing some amendment to the Delimitation Act. About twelve hon. Members, Shri Jesudasu Seelam, Shri Moinul Hassan, Shri J.P. Aggarwal, Shri Tarlochan Singh, Shri Sudarsana Natchiappan, Shri Laxminarayan Sharma, Dr. M.S. Gill, Dr. Gyan Prakash Pilania, Shri Janardhana Poojary, Prof. Ram Deo Bhandary, Shri Viplove Thakur and Shri Shantaram Laxman Naik have effectively participated in the discussion in this august House on this very important subject.

Sir, the hon. Minister has an open mind. I thank him and congratulate him that he has understood the problems that are being faced by various States while delimiting the constituencies in the light of complaints that have been received by him. The Delimitation Commission is fully aware of it as well.

Sir, the hon. Minister, in his reply, has stated very categorically that several representations have been received. (Contd. by 3m/hk)


SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY (CONTD.): Moreover, delimitation is being done now in the North-Eastern States; there are urban and rural constituencies. If delimitation is done there on the basis of population alone, there is going to be bias. Moreover, the hon. Minister has also agreed that various aspects of smaller States have to be taken into consideration while delimiting the constituencies. The hon. Minister also admitted that there should be a fresh look into the subject matter, and if need be, with the assistance and help of all political parties, if the Government thinks fit, they can come up with an amendment or fresh guidelines so as to accommodate various States. Sir, I would like to quote two or three examples where the practical difficulties are there if the population is adopted as criteria. In fact, Sir, I told the hon. Minister in the last Session of Parliament, when I spoke on the subject, that in two constituencies, Pondicherry has got four regions. Hon. Minister is well aware of it. When there was pressure mounted on him to notify the delimitation on the basis of the new Delimitation, because election would be held in our State; recently elections were held in the month of May 2006, the hon. Minister said that after doing delimitation of all the States, it will be notified. I am grateful to the hon. Minister for that because if we do it State by State, there will be a lot of inconvenience to various States. Therefore, the hon. Minister took a right decision. Sir, in our State the delimitation has been done. There are 21 constituencies in Pondicherry. Six constituencies are in Karaikal which is 125 km away from Pondicherry. There are another two constituencies which are 600 km away from Pondicherry and one constituency is 700 km away from Pondicherry. So, Karaikal has six constituencies, Mahe near Kerala has two constituenciy, Yanam near Andhra has one constituencies. Since we were under French Rule, we continue to keep those regions as our territories. When the delimitation process started, when the population criteria was adopted, two constituencies of my region, which is a 100 per cent literate area, merged into one. Ultimately, there is hue and cry. People are agitating in Coorg district. If you reduce the constituencies only on the basis of population, there will definitely be agitation by the people because they have been getting their public representatives in those two regions and much population difference is not there. Therefore, I told the hon. Minister that this issue has to be considered. Now, I come to another region, that is, Karaikal region. On one side, we said that we should have strict population control; everybody is implementing it. On the other side, you say that constituency should be divided on the basis of population. One thing goes contrary to the other. Population is increasing in urban areas because of population explosion or because of the migration of people from the rural areas to urban areas for employment, for settlement or for business...(Interruptions)..

SHRI RUDRA NARAYAN PANY: Population in urban area is increasing by infiltration from Bangladesh. Is it not a fact?

SHRIMATI VIPLOVE THAKUR: What is this? ..(Interruptions).. ָ Ѿ ֟ ? ...(־֮֬)...

ֵָ : ...(־֮֬)... ױ ֯ what is this ...(־֮֬)... ָ ֟֋ ...(־֮֬)...

0 ִֵָ : infiltration ...(־֮֬)... ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֬ ( פ ס־): ֯ ߻ ? ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: We are not discussing infiltration; we are discussing only population. Why are you creating problem unnecessarily? We are discussing the issue of delimitation. He said that population alone should not be the criteria. There are other criteria also. Rivers are there; geography is there. There are so many other factors. It is not only population. (Contd. by 3n/SK)