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-SSS/NBR-PSV/2N/2.00.

DR. K. KASTURIRANGAN (CONTD.): So, one can see the importance of white tiger. There is a very rare phenomenon to have white tiger. So, I appeal to the Ministry and to the hon. Minister to contact those research and other areas of activity to ensure that we can increase white tiger population even beyond zoos in which currently one could see them.

As has been mentioned by the hon. Minister, we have something like 28 Tiger Reserves. They occupied a total forest area of something like 37,000 sq. kms., which is nothing but 5 per cent of the total forest area of the country. The tiger population, if you look at the Census of 2001-02, is about 3,600. Out of this, half of them really live outside the tiger reserves. Even though there is a double in the number in terms of what the population in 1972 was, half of them live outside the tiger reserves. There is, in this context, a National Task Force was set up. There is a Report. You call the Report as 'joining the dots.' It has made several important recommendations with respect to conservation strategy for the tigers. And, I am happy to see that this particular Bill, certainly, addresses those kind of issues coming out of the recommendations of the Task Force, as well as the related studies done elsewhere. But, I would like to say a few points, specifically, on actions that could be followed up.

The first one is, based on the past experience of tiger reserves, the proposed set up that we have in the Bill, it is hoped, will set the standards for the management of the tiger reserves -- that is very important -- and enforce compliance at the State-level and a mechanism to periodically evaluate the same and, ultimately, a mechanism for mid-course corrections as and when they are called for. That is one suggestion.

The second one is, there have been new Clauses added in the Amendment Bill. Obviously, they form the core of the Bill. There are questions which are related to the modalities of treating violations. I think, one needs a little clarification. I know, in the official amendments to the Clauses which were circulated, there is some mention of these modalities of treating violations, mention with regard to penalty impositions, nature of implementing authority, etc. I am emphasising it only because of the fact that it is the very critical element of enforcing this Act ultimately.

The third one is, there have been suggestions by the environmentalists that besides the core and the buffer zones whether there should be a third zone which you call it as a zone of influence. The whole idea of having this third zone, the zone of influence, is that you create a larger landscape around the reserve and this will guide any engagement with people and institutions outside the administrative boundaries and aid in the efforts of conservation. There is some mention of it. Maybe, strengthening of that particular action would go a long way in that overall conservation strategy.

The fourth point I would like to mention is that the forest divisions abutting to the tiger habitat. The forest divisions create their own working plans. The question is: Is there any synergy between the working plans of the forest divisions and the tiger conservation parks? I think, how well is this harmonisation, and if there are mechanisms, which need to be brought in to strengthen this harmonisation, it should be addressed.

Sir, the fifth one comes to something I am a little more familiar with and it is related to the role of space observations. Most of the time we do suddenly realise that something has gone wrong. This is because there is no systematic, periodic evaluation of the various reserves with regard to tiger conservation. The suggestion that I make here is that we have the capability and the Environment and Forests Ministry has been doing an excellent job of evaluating the forest wealth of the country, placing the same before Parliament once in two years. The open forest, the close forest and the total forest is like this. The open forest, today, is something like 18 per cent or 19 per cent. The closed forest is 9 per cent. And, the total forest is 23 per cent or 24 per cent. But, the important thing is that closed forest, with a canopy which is more than 60 per cent, and, now, you have an intermediate stage of between 40 per cent canopy and 60 per cent canopy, and, ultimately, you are left with around 10 per cent. So, you have three levels in which the forest density is mensurated and reported.

(CONTD. BY USY "2O")

NBR-USY/KLG/2.05/2O

DR. K. KASTURIRANGAN (CONTD.): Since you do this once in two years, I am only suggesting the hon. Minister if we could include that information system that is placed in Parliament once in two years on the overall status of forest wealth of the country. The information related to the health of the Tiger Reserves. If you need much more detailed information related to this, I think, that could certainly be done with a better high resolution systems, which India is currently orbiting one metre or five metres. So, this was one more point.

The last point that I would like to make is some of the more recent suggestions that have been circulated, which are more related to the peripheral area management, the question of the people who have been depending on the forest products, how well are they taken care in the Bill. After initially circulating the original version of the Bill, there has been certain additions to the Bill. I fully endorse the provisions that have been made in the subsequent version by way of additions to this particular Bill. I fully endorse the issue that has been addressed there and in the contents which will be put into Act, coming out of these additions.

With these words, I should say that this is a very good step that the Government has taken. I would like to complement the Ministry; I would like to congratulate the Minister for this timely action. I support the Bill. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Further discussion on Wild Life (Protection) Amendment Bill, 2005 will be taken up on Monday. Now, we will take up Special Mentions.


SPECIAL MENTIONS

CONCERN OVER EXORBITANT RATE OF B.T. COTTON SEED BEING CHARGED BY AMERICAN COMPANY

 

ָ֕ ״ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ׾ֿ ӟָ™ߵ ֮ ָ ߕ ִ ֤ ӲӬ ӟָ™ߵ ߕ ֮ ߕ ׻ֵ ָ ֮ ן ָ 850/-֋ ֵֻ , ߮ ߕ ׻֋ ֻ 150/-֋ ֱ ָ ֻ ֮ ָ 1125 ֋ ֵֻ ָ ֕֙ ֻ ָߵ Ӭ֮ ׸֤ ׿ Ӿ֨ (ߋ) ֮ ߕ ָ և ֵ õ֙ ײ ֮ ֮ 1996 ևߋָ ߋ ׻֋ ֻ 18 ֋ ֲ ֟֟ ָߤ ևԅ ׯ֔ ֻ ևߋָ և, ָ ֮ ֮ ָ ߮ ֲ֕ ֋ ߕ ָ ׸ ӛ ֻ ֟ ֤ ֤ , ׻֋ ֮ ߕ ָߤ ֟ ï™ ™ߵ ߕ ֮ ָ ֮ ֲ֕

, ևߋָ ֲ ֣ ? ־ֻ ӳ߸ ֟֟ ٿִֵ כ֮ ָ ֋֮ ֻ Ϭִ֮ӡ ӡ ִ ֬ Ԯ ײ֮ סֵ ֡ ׻ ӓ ãן ָ ߋ ֻ ֻ ָ և , ߮ ָ ֻ ָ ֻ ߛ ֮֮

ִõ ֤ , ָָ ֮ ֟ ִõ ִ֮֬ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

2 ָ ..


VP/2.10/2P

NEED TO CONVERT MANGALORE AIRPORT INTO

INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT

 

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (KARNATAKA): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, Mangalore is Karnataka's major economic and industrial hub. The public sector undertakings like NMPT, Mangalore Chemicals & Fertilizer Corporation, KIOCL, Mangalore Airport, Mangalore Refineries & Petro-Chemicals, Infosys, BASF, Thanneerbhavi Power Plant are located in Mangalore. A Special Economic Zone and an ONGC Petroleum Project would be established in Mangalore and it is likely that Petroleum, Chemicals and Petrochemicals Investment Region (PCPIR) and Manufacturing Investment Region (MIR) would also be set up in Mangalore shortly. Mangalore is cradle to some national, financial and educational institutions.

Sir, apart from this, innumerable tourist and pilgrimage centres like the renovated Kudroli Shree Gokarnanatha Temple at Mangalore, its Dusserah Celebrations, other ancient temples around Mangalore, that is, the Ujire Dharmasthala temple, Udupi Shri Krishna Temple, Kollur Shri Mookambika Temple, and the Darga at Ullal, attract lakhs of people from within and outside India.

The existing infrastructural facilities at Mangalore Airport are unable to cope with the resultant manifold rise in air passenger traffic. There is an urgent need for converting the Mangalore Airport into an international airport.

Sir, despite hurdles, Karnataka is endeavouring to expand and construct a new terminal and a new runway suitable for international aircraft in all weather conditions, new approach road between the City and Airport Terminal, and rehabilitation of the affected people.

However, for the project to materialise early, the Centre should cooperate with the Karnataka Government in removing all bottlenecks regarding land acquisition, etc., so as to facilitate construction of new terminal building, runway, provision of Customs & Immigration facilities and immediate declaration of Mangalore as an International Airport.

(Ends)

CONCERN OVER REDUCTION OF

STAFF STRENGTH IN KVIC

 

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (WEST BENGAL): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I rise to draw the attention of the Government regarding the drastic cut in staff strength in the Khadi and Village Industries Commission. It is reported that in the name of austerity, a ban has been imposed on recruitment. Over and above this, posts remaining vacant for more than a year are being abolished on the ground that those posts are not required. In this process, the Government has brought down the total number of posts from 5162 in 1992 to 2403 in 2002. Considering the importance of KVIC for employment in rural sectors, I urge upon the Government to consider expansion of KVIC and review the staff strength in consultation with the workers' representatives. (Ends)

SHRI MATILAL SARKAR (TRIPURA): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE (WEST BENGAL): Sir, I also associate myself with it.

SHRI RUDRA NARAYAN PANY (ORISSA): Sir, I also associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

NEED TO START VOCATIONAL COURSES IN SCHOOLS

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, one of the reasons for the dropout of the children, especially, in the rural areas is the perception of some parents belonging to weaker sections that formal education does not lead to livelihood opportunities. Therefore, there is a high dropout rate from age 12 onwards. The school dropouts belonging to the weaker sections are being sent by their parents to places where they could pick up skills while earning wages. Therefore, it is imperative that children are given vocational skills when they are in the school, especially, in the higher classes. The present curriculum or courses of vocational education are outdated and do not give adequate hands-on experience to the students studying in higher classes. The number of skills in which training has to be provided has to be increased so as to make vocational education more meaningful and relevant to the students in the schools in rural areas, where many parents would like their children to support them with some immediate employment in view of their poverty. Therefore, higher investments for creating infrastructure, appointment of teachers and recurring costs, are necessary to achieve this objective in the High Schools. Therefore, a secondary education mission may be launched along with substantial investments. (Ends) (Followed by PK/2Q)

PK/MCM/2Q/2.15

CONCERN OVER ALARMING SCENARIO OF WATER

CONTAMINATION AND SHORTAGE

 

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, in India, the problem of water contamination continues to be particularly severe. As many as 200 districts across the country suffer from high fluoride concentration in the groundwater. The results of the survey conducted by the Fluorosis Research and Rural Development Foundation (FRRD) are disturbing, which confirmed that groundwater in Delhi's Palam zone was untreated and that over 35 per cent of children below eight were fluorosis-afflicted. In India, 65 million people are estimated to be affected by fluorosis. In Rajasthan, nearly 50 per cent of villages are contaminated by fluoride. Apart from fluoride, arsenic affects nearly 15 million people in West Bengal. Varying levels of iron (particularly in the North-East) and heavy metals like lead, nickel, chromium, zinc, copper and manganese, besides nitrates and bacteriological contamination in ground water, all serve as slow poison.

In India, per capita availability which was about 6000 cubic meters per annum in 1947, has now come down to about 1,700 cubic meter per annum in 2002, and will further reduce to 1,340 cubic meters by 2025. This is an alarming scenario. However, in a large part of the country's Western and Southern region, availability has already reached a 'water-stress' situation of less than 1000 cubic meters per capita per annum. Things can only worsen, given that India is heading towards a freshwater crisis due to improper management of its water resources. No legislation or traditional water harvesting system would help resolve freshwater crisis unless conservation activities -- from water extraction to water management -- are integrated and communities educated. It is time the Government implemented effective groundwater legislation on war-footing and encouraged self-regulation by communities and local institutions. Thank you. (Ends)

HARASSMENT OF INDIAN WOMEN

BY NON-RESIDENT INDIANS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES

 

ֵ ֺ (ָӛ) : ֲ ֣ ֟ ָߵ ןֵ ׾־ ֿ֟ ֮ ן ֣ ׾֤ ֻ ֟ ֻ פ ֙֋ ִ֮ և , וִ֮ ׾֤ և ןֵ ֮ ן ־ ֻ ֻ, פ , ֣ ߛ ִ֮ ֛ ף֟ ִֻ ֿ ֋ ָ ߛ ֣ ֱֻ ܟ ֮ ׾֤ ֻ ָߵ ֟ ֣ י ִֻ ֮ ãן ï™ ָ֤֟ ִֻ ׾֤ ֱ ן-֟ ׸֮ ָ ãן פ ֟ ߛ ־ ֟ ׸֮ ãן ꅠ ָ ׻ ָ֬ ָ ִֻ ָ ֙ ׾֤ ׻֋ ߅ ׾֤ ߛ ִõ ׻֋ Ӳ׬֟ ֮ פ Ͽ ֣״ ֋օ ָ ֟ ־ ֯ ׸֮ ךև ִ֮ ֛

: ָָ ִֻ ָ ָ֕ ֮ ֣ כ ֟ ׸֮ ֵ פ֮ ׻֋ ׾ֿ ־ã ӲӬ ָߵ ־ פ ׮֤ ֮ ׾֤ ֱ ן ֣ ֻ ןֵ, ׾ֿ ־-׾־ ׿ֵ֟ ָ ֻ֟ ֮ פ ֋ ֺ ֛ ָ ֲֻ և ֋ ֮־֤ (ִ֯) (2R ָ )

GS-PB/2R/2.20

NEED TO CANCEL DISINVESTMENT PROPOSAL OF NALCO.

ֵָ () : ֳ֯ן , ָָ ֲ և, 2004 և , ֲ ֮ ״׮ִִ ִ ִ ֵ ָָ ֳֵ֤ ײ  ӕ ׾׮־ ߅ ֟ ֟ 20 ߵ ֮ ӡ ֻ֮ ״׮ִֵ ֮ 10 ןֿ֟ ӕ ׾׮־ ָָ ֤ ָ ֮ פ Ӥ ָ סִӛ ֻ þ׳ִ֮ , ׻ ִ 滵 ־ָ ׮ֵ ״ֻ ֮ ֮ ֻ ֵ: 1500 ֱ ָָ ֳ׮֟

֮ ֕ ֳ , ָ ך ֵ, ׬ ֳ ״ֻ ָ ֟ ӯָ ִ ֻ ֵ ִֵ ׾׮־ ׾ָ֓ ָָ פ ֮ ӯ ד֟ ֵ֤ ָ ִ Ϥ ß־ ׾ָ Ӥ֮ ׻֋ ֛ ֪ׯ 000 ִֵ ߠ ֵֿ 2002 ß־ פ ֵ , ײ֮ ָ և և ߅ և, 2003 ֻ֟߮ Ϭ֮ ӡ ָ֮ ָ ß־ ֯ ׻ֵ Ӥ׻֟ ֮פ օ ִֵ ֕ ֣ ׾ָ ־֮, ן ֕ ֕־ֵ ôן ֣־֟ ׾֟ : ֕ þ׳ִ֮ ϟ ֣ ֳֵ֤ ֮ ֟ ӕ ׾׮־ ׾ָ֓ ־ԣ خ֤ߵ

: ָָ ָ ß־ ã֟ ֵ֕ ӯԺ ֵ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

CONCERN OVER CONTINUOUS LATE RUNNING

OF GWALIOR-BARAUNI TRAIN NO. 1123

ߴ֟ ֵ (֬ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ׾ִֻ֮ߵ ׾ֵ ߲ ֟ ߟ ֮ ֤ ֛ 0 1123 ָ-ݾ׻ֵָ ֕ 10 12 ә ݾ׻ֵָ , ו סֵ ָ ָ׮ֵ ֮ ֛ , Ù֮ -֮֯ ߓ ֛ ֡ 6 ׯ֔ ֮ 1.5 ֙ פ ָ Ù֮ ֻ ־ ָ߮ ֯, ¯, ֲָ֟ ֣ ֻ ָ 㮤ޛ סֵ ָ-ݾ׻ֵָ ִֵ ָ ֻ֮ ׾ ֵ

ֲ Ù֮ ֮ , Ù֮ ֻ , , ָ ֟ ֻ֟ ֯ ָ ݾ׻ֵָ ֟ ֕ ֛ -־ ֣ և פ ֟

: ׾ֿ ִ֬ ׮־ ߑ ֮ ֮ ֣ ן׸ ӟִ֕ סֵ ָ֮ ֮ ֮ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)

(2 ָ )

 

2S/2.25/SKC-SC

CONCERN OVER PROBLEMS BEING FACED BY INDIANS IN

BRINGING BACK BODIES FROM THE GULF COUNTRIES

 

׻֟ ֟ (֕ã֮): ֮֮ߵ ֳ֯ן , ֈ ֛ ֮ ֋ ָߵ ֯ þ֤ ֛ ֻ ָߵ ֤ ־ ֮ ָ׮ֵ ׸֮ ֮ ֛ , ߛ þֵ ֮֟ ֟ 10 ֮ ָߵ ԙ ߴ׸ , ִ ־ ֯ ָ ִ ֮ ֵԾ - ָ ־ ֯ ֛ ֲ ֤ ߤ ֵԾ ֈ ו ָ ־ ֮ ߮ ֟ ֲ 17 18 פ ִֵ ߮ ־ ֮ ֟ , ֲ ֈ ־ ֮ ߮ ֟ ִֻ 2 3 ߮ ִֵ ־ ֮ ֟ ״ֵ֮ ֮ ןִ Ԯ ӟָ֕ ׸֮ ָ֣ ֟ ֕ã֮ ־֙ Ϥ 6 ߕ , ־ֲ , ָ֢ , , ß ־ ֈ ֯ ֮ ֮ߵ ãן ãֵ ִ֮֬ ׮ֻ ֮ ־ֿ Ӳ׬֟ ֣ ָ ָָ ֓ ֆ ָ ֮ ׮׿֟ ֮ ־ ׬ ׬ ֯ ׬ ׸֮ ֯ ֋Ӆ (ִ֯)

ֵ ֺ (ָӛ) : , ֮֮ߵ ֤õ þֵ Ӳ֨

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take up supplementary business listed in the agenda. Now, Motion for constitution of a joint committee to examine the constitutional and legal position relating to Office of Profit.

 


MOTION FOR CONSTITUTION OF A JOINT COMMITTEE TO EXAMINE THE CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL POSITION RELATING TO OFFICE OF PROFIT

 

THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI H. R. BHARDWAJ): Sir, I move the following motion:

 

"That this House concurs in the recommendation of the Lok Sabha made in the Motion adopted at its sitting held on the 17th August, 2006 and communicated to this House the same day that a Joint Committee of the Houses consisting of fifteen Members, ten from the Lok Sabha to be nominated by the Speaker and five from the Rajya Sabha to be nominated by the Chairman, Rajya Sabha to examine the constitutional and legal position relating to Office of Profit be constituted.

 

                        That the terms of reference of the Joint Committee shall be --

 

                        to examine, in the context of settled interpretation of the expression "Office of Profit" in Article 102 of the Constitution and the underlying constitutional principles therein, and to suggest a comprehensive definition of "Office of Profit";

 

                        to recommend, in relation to "Office of Profit", the evolution of generic and comprehensive criteria which are just, fair and reasonable and can be applied to all States and Union Territories;

 

                        to examine the feasibility of adoption of system of law relating to prevention of disqualification of Members of Parliament as existing in the United Kingdom and considered by the Constitution (Forty-second Amendment) Act, 1976; and

 

                        to examine any other matter incidental to the above.

 

                        That in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be one-third of the total number of members of the Joint Committee.

 

                        That the Joint Committee shall make a report to this House by the first day of the last week of the next Session (Winter Session) of Parliament.

 

                        That in other respects, the Rules of Procedure of the Lok Sabha relating to the Parliamentary Committees shall apply with such variations and modifications as the Speaker may make.

 

That this House accordingly concurs in the recommendation of the Lok Sabha that this House do join the said Joint Committee and resolves that five Members from the Rajya Sabha be nominated by the Chairman, Rajya Sabha to serve on that Committee."

(Ends)

 

The question was proposed.

 

ָ֕ ״: ָ, ߕ ֮ ߅

ֳ֯ן: ֵ ֋ ß ֋

0 ִ ӛָ: ֯

ָ֕ ״: ָ ָ ֲ ֕ Ӥ ֋ , ֲ ־ ֮

ֳ֯ן: , ֋ ß ֋ (Followed by 2T)

HK-MP/2t/2.30

ָ֕ ״: , ֮ ִֵ ׻ֵ ֵ ײ֮ ָ, ָ ׾ד֡ ָ ãן ֿ֟ , ׻֋ օ ...(־֮֬)...

֮֮ߵ ֤õ : ֮־֤ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)...

. ִ ӛָ : ֟ ֋, ָָ ӕ ߅ ...(־֮֬)...

߸ י : ֤ ֮ ־֮֋ ֌ , ֲ ָ כ , ׻֋ ֬և

ֳ֯ן : ֤ ־֮ ֋ ...(־֮֬)...

׻֟ ֟ (֕ã֮) : ֲ ӿ֮ ֵ , ֯ ִ֬ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ֲ ן ֮, ؛ݕ ִ֮ ָ֮ ֋, ֲ ׾ָ֓ ֋ ָָ , ™ ? ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ֬և , ֬և ֵ֤ ß ֵ֤, ִ ֟ ֲ Ӿ֤ ׾ֿ ֋, ׮ ִ ? ָ ։ , ֲ ׸š ֤õ Categorically ֟ ֓ ָ ִֵ, ϟָ ִֵ ֟ ֟ ֻ֕ ָָ ? ֟ ..(־֮֬).. , ֟ ß֟ ֋ *

ֳ֯ן : ֟ և ؛ ׮ֻ ו֋

֓ : ֳ֯ן , ׾ִ֮ ֣Ԯ ֵԾ ׾ֻׯ֟ , ә֮

ֳ֯ן : , ׮ֻ פ

I shall now put the motion moved by Shri H.R. Bhardwaj to vote. The question is:-

"That this House concurs in the recommendation of the Lok Sabha made in the Motion adopted at its sitting held on the 17th August, 2006 and communicated to this House the same day that a Joint Committee of the Houses consisting of fifteen Members, ten from the Lok Sabha to be nominated by the Speaker and five from the Rajya Sabha to be nominated by the Chairman, Rajya Sabha to examine the constitutional and legal position relating to Office of Profit be constituted.

 

                        That the terms of reference of the Joint Committee shall be --

 

                        to examine, in the context of settled interpretation of the expression "Office of Profit" in Article 102 of the Constitution and the underlying constitutional principles therein, and to suggest a comprehensive definition of "Office of Profit";

 

                        to recommend, in relation to "Office of Profit", the evolution of generic and comprehensive criteria which are just, fair and reasonable and can be applied to all States and Union Territories;

 

                        to examine the feasibility of adoption of system of law relating to prevention of disqualification of Members of Parliament as existing in the United Kingdom and considered by the Constitution (Forty-second Amendment) Act, 1976; and

-------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

                        to examine any other matter incidental to the above.

 

                        That in order to constitute a sitting of the Joint Committee the quorum shall be one-third of the total number of members of the Joint Committee.

 

                        That the Joint Committee shall make a report to this House by the first day of the last week of the next Session (Winter Session) of Parliament.

 

                        That in other respects, the Rules of Procedure of the Lok Sabha relating to the Parliamentary Committees shall apply with such variations and modifications as the Speaker may make.

 

That this House accordingly concurs in the recommendation of the Lok Sabha that this House do join the said Joint Committee and resolves that five Members from the Rajya Sabha be nominated by the Chairman, Rajya Sabha to serve on that Committee."

 

The motion was adopted.

(Ends)

 

RESOLUTION RE. REMOVAL OF DIFFICULTIES BEING EXPERIENCED BY VARIOUS STATES WHILE DELIMITING CONSTITUENCIES ... (CONTD.)

 

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Further discussion on the Private Members' Resolution moved by Shri V. Narayanasamy on the 19th May, 2006. Dr. M.S. Gill to speak.

DR. M.S. GILL (PUNJAB): Sir, we have been discussing this matter of delimitation and the work of the Commission for sometime in this House and, I think, in the last Session we had a very extensive debate. Sir, the Constitution provides for a Census in every ten year and India has the proud history of having a very efficiently conducted Census without fail. Many of the countries have not been able to carry this on, even our neighbours in the sub-continent. Census is also to be followed by a Delimitation Commission to reorganise voters' constituencies, State and parliamentary, in order to ensure what the Constitution requires and fundamental justice requires ... ..(Interruptions).. Constitution, naturally, and justice requires that parliamentary constituencies, at whichever level, should be, as far as possible, on voters' strength and, therefore, more or less on population. It was found, I think, in the 70s that due to an unexceptional increase of population in certain northern States and good family planning and decrease of population in southern States, some States -- I recall Tamil Nadu -- in this revision lost a parliamentary seat of representation. While northern States, for increase in population, got the benefit. This, I think, was objected to and protested against legitimately in my eyes. In think, in the early 70s, when Shrimati Indira Gandhi was the Prime Minister, the Parliament, in its good wisdom, unanimously, more or less, amended the Constitution to put off all delimitation for 30 years. (Contd. by 2u/SK)

SK/2U/2.35

DR. M.S. GILL (CONTD.): Now, that solved a political conundrum at that time. But, 30 years had to pass and they passed some years back. I am talking from my old experience in my old job as the Chief Election Commissioner. I had also been looking at it. Then, we did discuss it. I called an all-party meeting and put it to them that, you see, 30 years have also caused tremendous distortions. And, I used to give the example of Delhi. In Outer Delhi, all the rural areas, all the farming community of Delhi, 32 lakh or 34 lakhs of people were in a single constituency, and Chandni Chowk was less than 4 lakhs. So, one MP got this benefit and one got that great trouble of trying to win a seat of 35 lakhs or so. It simply implied, in other language, that a voter in Chandni Chowk was worth 7 times or 6 times more than a voter in Outer Delhi villages. And, this is certainly not right; in my view, would be unconstitutional, if somebody went there. Therefore, I put it to all the parties that please, look at this, while I can understand the sensitivity that you cannot punish those who control population and reward those who go on increasing it to the detriment of the country. That is true. And, I said it publicly also. But, at the same time, while you may say that Delhi will always have 7 Parliamentary seats, Punjab may always have 13 parliamentary seats, but, within Punjab, within Delhi, within UP, within Tamil Nadu, you must balance those many seats properly, because you have what I described of Delhi. Similarly, you do it for your Assembly seats, because there also, the distortions are there. I think, my argument went through and then we found, as you all know, ultimately, the then Government appointed a Delimitation Commission on the pattern of what they have been for long years since Independence. There have been a number of Commissions. And, that Commission was working. And, I think, then, a year and a half ago or something, I realised -- I am also aware of political matters -- that it is very painful to have these changes because anyone who has to go to the people for votes, as all of you do go, and I respect those who go to the people for votes because they are really effectively representatives of the masses of India. Lok Sabha, I am talking of that kind of thing. And, I realised the pain it has caused when you have a huge change, as Delhi was bound to have, because that 4 lakhs had to be increased to 15 lakhs and that 35 lakhs had to be cut down to 15 lakhs and then distributed around. And, whatever any Commission would do would cause pain, and would cause unhappiness, and in all parties. Therefore, that happened, and, I think, then, a year and a half ago or something, that work was stopped a bit on the argument that no, no, we did not tell you to come up to the latest Census as we should have. But that was somehow done. And, now you take the 2001 Census -- that is what, I think, they are doing -- and then try to balance out. That work, whatever I know from a distance, is going on, and, I think, going on well. The Commission has the usual pattern of a Supreme Court Judge, with two members -- one from the Election Commission, one from the State Election Commission -- and then with other representatives of the public. I only have to say, with my background and knowledge, in the larger interest of the country, that the delimitation work must be completed at the earliest, in the best professional way and in the best sensible way and in the fairest way and taking into account what the law and the Constitution says, as you passed at that time in your Parliamentary Bills, and I think, you amended in past. Naturally, they have to obey those directions of Parliament because Parliament appoints the Delimitation Commission. They must do that. I would also say that on the Commission, the views and the worries of the representatives of the public, through the hon. Members of Parliament or the State Assemblies, must be given full and weighty consideration. But, of course, I would also say that that can only be within the parameters of the law and the directions in the law passed by Parliament in appointing those people. That limitation, I think, all should understand. But, with that kind of caveat, I would say, you have to go forward and finish it, and you have to go and complete it in a sensible way. (Contd. by ysr-2w)

-SK/YSR/2.40/2W

DR. M.S. GILL (CONTD.): I am aware that in some States on our frontier, on our islands, our small tribal groups have been given a single parliamentary seat. I have been to Lakshadweep islands when I think the population was not 70,000, leave alone the number of voters. Similar is the case with some North-Eastern States like Meghalaya and Sikkim. I am aware that they get a parliamentary seat because India must have all its people somehow represented here, if it is a true democracy. That I understand. I personally admire and appreciate the flexibility of Parliament and the law in trying to accommodate all our people to have a voice here whether this House or that House. But having said that, I would also say that you would find it difficult if you carry it too far and try to put one group against another group, this caste against that, and mountains against lower plains. You will find the caste argument in India in every field. If you try to do that, you will have no end of trouble. Ultimately, democracy requires representation of voters, and voters, whether of Punjab or Tamil Nadu or of anywhere else, must have equal or roughly equal value. Some odd ones you do for very weighty reasons. But if you try to do something extensively, then you are going to get into trouble, and I think then you have to worry about it. I also want to explain to you what is happening there. I suggested to them and it was taken up. I said, leave the parliamentary representation in Parliament. As I have explained, all of you know that you will get the same number of seats as you used to get. So, Tamil Nadu is happy that it will not be reduced and somebody else will not be reduced or increased. That is fine. Punjab has 117 seats. They have to be balanced. Similarly, within States if you try to think, and I can think of some of the hilly States, which have somehow -- I would not have recommended it -- taken plain areas also into their boundary for other reasons, economic reasons. The plain areas are always more populated than the higher areas. Now, if you have taken that, then don't give them the rights. If you try to say that one of us should be equal to five of them, you would not be able to do it and you will have trouble. You can try to do it. I know what goes on. I also heard a little bit of that before I left the Commission. But by doing this, you will get yourself into huge trouble. If you try to apply the same principle within States for other reasons -- which are not so valid, because we all know what is logical and valid in democracy and what is not -- then you will have difficulty. So, I would only caution that those are not the ideas one should try to take. But my main message is, please, carry out this delimitation without further delay. Have the fairness of more or less equal seats in every State, so that all candidates, all parties, all winners and losers get an equal chance. It cannot simply be that a man from Chandni Chowk constituency is worth seven men in the constituency from Outer Delhi. I will not accept this. But if you go on delaying this for one reason or the other, then this is what you will be doing, because some time you have to bite the bullet, as Americans say. My friend is looking at me. Since he is smiling, it is all right as far as I am concerned. I also smile, as you know. This is the only thing I have to say. Nothing more. But I do want to focus everybody's attention to the need to have a good, proper, and reasonable delimitation done. I do very much emphasise that the Commissioners there should listen to the people as much as they can. They should listen to the people's voice which is represented through the people's representatives on each meeting whether it is on Tamil Nadu or Punjab or Haryana. Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (RAJASTHAN): Sir, we have heard to very sane, sanguine, and very valid advice of Dr. M.S. Gill. I support the views he has put forward.

(Contd. by VKK/2X)


-YSR/VKK/2x/2.45

DR. GYAN PRAKASH PILANIA (CONTD.): Delimitation Commission is a product of the Constitution. It aims at equality of opportunity. Its basic principle is natural justice which demands that each elected representative should represent more or less the same number of electorates and it is here that the crucial element of delimitation of constituencies comes into play. The Delimitation Commission should get the same kind of regard, respect and care as any higher judicial commission gets from us, even more than that and that's why, Sir, it has been provided in the Act that its decision shall not be justiciable. It is only to ensure and insulate it from vagaries of political wrangling and from somehow managing things that it has been given a special status. At the end of the first elections, the Election Commission recommended to the Government that the future delimitation of constituencies should be made by an independent commission, more or less judicial in composition and the decisions of such a commission should be made final and binding. That advice is still very valid; that advice is still very sanguine and hence, we should not tinker with the Delimitation Commission's findings. Luckily, it is headed by one of the most eminent judicial functionaries in the country, a Supreme Court Judge, known at that time as a Green Revolution Judge, who gave certain landmark judgments and he is assisted by able Election Commissioners also. So, there is no need of tinkering with the Delimitation Commission. The only thing is that the Delimitation Commission should finalise delimitation and readjustment of territorial constituencies on the basis of census figures of 2001 at the earliest possible. Earlier it is done, better it is.

Sir, I do not agree with our hon. Member who has moved this Resolution, that there should be voting right to five MPs from Lok Sabha and five MPs from Rajya Sabha, pertaining to a particular State. It has been very rightly done that they do not have voting right because that will give a kind of political colour or a kind of biased vision to the findings of the Delimitation Commission. I further endorse what Dr. Gill has said. Let us have faith in the Delimitation Commission. Let us place whatever difficulties we have before it and let them consider them. But once a final judgment has been given, as it is binding by law, let us accept it willingly and let us rejoice in whatever the Delimitation Commission does. I think, Sir, I have nothing more to say except this that we should not tinker with the Delimitation Commission and we should believe in its integrity, in its judgment and it is rationality. Thank you very much, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (KARNATAKA): Thank you very much, Sir. This Resolution moved by Mr. V. Narayanasamy speaks about the difficulties, pains and also the true facts. In fact, I congratulate him for coming before this House with this bold Resolution. Sir, what he has said in the Resolution, while he was moving, you were kind enough to say that it is very exhaustive and he need not make a speech. To a certain extent, it was true also. Mr. Narayanasamy then gave the elaborate details about the grievances of the people's representatives and also the people's grievances also. (Contd. by MKS/2y)

-VKK/MKS/HMS/2.50/2Y

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD.): Sir, now, the questions that arise here are whether we have to go in for changes; whether the law permits this, and if the law does not permit this, then what will be our position. Sir, the question before you is whether the law should prevail or whether the people's will should also prevail. Sir, kindly take into consideration the reply given to a Starred Question, No. 186, dated 3rd March, 2006. When the question was put "whether the Government has recommended some suggestions on the views of people's representatives, received from various quarters, in this regard, the reply, sorry to say, was: "The Delimitation Commission is required to undertake the work of delimitation in accordance with the provisions of, and the guidelines contained in, the Delimitation Act, 2002. As such, there is no scope for the Government to recommend any suggestion in this regard to the Delimitation Commission." Sir, hon. Members have taken part in the debate. They have given more suggestions. They have given a vivid picture of the difficulties being faced by the representatives of the people as well as the people of every constituency. Now, what does the law say? The law says, as stated by the Government or by the Law Minister, that "there is no scope for the Government to recommend any suggestion in this regard to the Delimitation Commission." While replying to the question whether it is true that it is within the ambit of the Act, he said all that. Then, Sir, what is the purpose of having our discussion here? And if I say so, it may be construed as if I am speaking against this.

Sir, section 9 of the Act very clearly mentions:

"The Commission shall, in the manner herein provided, distribute the seats in the House of the people allotted to each State on the seats assigned to Legislative Assemblies of each State has readjusted on the basis of 1971 Census to single member territorial constituencies and delimiting them on the basis of Census figures as ascertained in the Census held in the year 2001 having regard to the provisions of the Constitution, the provisions of the Act specified in Section 8 on the following provisions, namely, all constituencies shall, in as far as practicable, be geographically compact areas and delimiting them on the basis of physical features, existing boundaries of administrative units, facilities of communication and public convenience."

So, the law is very clear. They can recommend that. And when the Government receives or when the Law Minister receives a representation from the people, and also, Sir, when the suggestions are given here, he can recommend to the Commission. If there are anomalies, if there are flaws and if there is any discrimination, then, the Government can bring that to the notice of the Commission. The Government is not barred. So, they cannot shut their eyes to the feeling of the people here, to the feeling of the representatives here, inside the House, and also outside the House. The Commission is acting as a dictator. They do not hear anything, any suggestion from anybody. They say that there are going as per the law. Sir, they say that they are not in a position to hear us! Sometimes, they ask the people's representatives to go out. If this is their attitude, Sir, I congratulate Mr. Narayanasamy for his boldness.

(Contd. by TMV/2Z)

-MKS-TMV-PSV/2Z/2.55

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (CONTD.): He has come up with a bold Resolution saying no to it. Here is a Parliament. The voice of the people could be heard here. He has gone to the extent of saying, not through this House, to the entire nation that the Parliament is supreme and the Government is also accountable to the Parliament. Nobody can ignore the views of the Parliamentarians and the people's voice. Now, the question is whether the Government is in a position to consider the suggestions given by the hon. Members. If this Resolution is passed here, it will be very effective. So, my submission here is that whatever the hon. Member has put in his Resolution is not irrelevant. Is it not as per the desire of the nation? He has stated that (i) the Delimitation Act was passed by the Parliament and the process of delimitation has already started in various States and they are facing a lot of difficulties in implementing the provisions of the Delimitation Act; (ii) several representations have been received from various States and even from the legislators stating that since population was the criteria adopted for delimiting the constituencies, ignoring other conditions prevailing in various States, the basic structure of the constituencies is being changed.

Sir, it is true, as far as many places are concerned. If population is the base, if it is going to be the criteria, constituencies which are following family planning will be affected. If two-lakh population is the basis for an assembly constituency, the constituencies which have been following family planning will be affected. They are not going in for population growth. They are strictly following family planning and the population is less. What is happening?

Now, you take the case of Coorg district in Karnataka. Sir, you are aware of this fact. There were three constituencies in this district. You have been hearing about the agitation. People are agitating saying that they want a separate State. What has happened? There were three assembly constituencies. They have reduced it to two. It is a hilly area. The population is scattered. Will they remain in Karnataka? They will run away. They will say, "We will not get any justice". But you say that population is the basis. That is why this provision has been made in section 9 of the Act itself saying that you have to take into consideration the geographically contiguous as well as other administrative areas as a unit. I am strongly pleading now that, as far as Coorg district is concerned, the Delimitation Commission should take cognisance of this fact. They should say no to it and keep the three constituencies in Coorg district intact. Otherwise, those hill area people, who have been in Karnataka, will agitate further. They have even threatened. You know that. I need not say that. They have gone to the extent of saying that there will be violence. If that is the case, where is the justice? Is not the Government in a position to make recommendations to the Delimitation Commission? That is what Shri V. Narayanasamy has sought in his Resolution.

You take the case of hill areas, the North-Eastern States. The same is the position. The population is scattered. There will be a reduction in constituencies. That is why these factors should be taken into consideration. You know that Bangalore is thickly populated. There were eight assembly constituencies. We have brought it to the notice of the House. There were eight segments. Now it has gone up to 12. What about the rural areas? The population is scattered. There are vast areas. It is very difficult even to work for the welfare of the constituency. (Contd. by RG/3A)

 

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