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ASC-RG/4.00/2N

֮ ֻ ӛ (֟) : ֣ ֟ ͅ ־ָ ֮֟ () , ֟ ֛ߋ ָָ ߅ ײָ ֕ ָָ ןֵ ד֟ ןֵ ״ֻ ׻֋ ִֻ ״֟ ֛ ֛ߋ ָָ , ֲ ֮ օ ׻֋ ֮֮ߵ ӡ ײָ ׯ֔ ָ ָָ , ֮ ןֵ ׻֋ ֵ ֮, ֮ , ִו ãן ִ ֟ ןֵ ״ֻ ֲ ד֟ ן ןֵ ״ֻ ָ ׾ָ֓ , ֲ ןֵ ִ ״ֻ , ӟ ֯ ׾ֵ ָ ִ֮֬ և ָ ײֻ , ӡ ֣ ָָ þֵ ײֻ þָ ֮ פ ֟ ׻֋, ִֺ֟ ׻֋ ׾֮֬ ִֵ ӿ֮ , ӿ֮ , פ ן Ϥ ד֟ ן , ™ߵ ßָ ָ ד֟ ן ֯ ֣ 㓔-340 ן Ϥ ד֟ ן ָ Ϥ ׯ֔ ֟ , ִ ִֺ֟ և ֋, ָ ӿ֮ ֮ ֟ ֣ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ (ִ֯)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Hon. Members, Shri Pawan Kumar Bansal has requested that since he has other urgent business, on behalf of Shri P. Chidambaram, he may be permitted to lay the Papers on the Table just now.

PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE - (CONTD.)

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL: Sir, I lay on the table, under Section 159 of the Customs Act, 1962, a copy (in English and Hindi) of the Ministry of Finance (Department of Revenue) Notification No.80/2006-Customs, dated the 11th August, 2006, seeking to amend Notification No.21/2002-Customs, dated the 1st March, 2002, so as to reduce customs duty on crude palm oil, crude palmolein and other fractions of crude palm oil from 80% to 70% and on Refined Bleached Deodorized palm oil, Refined Bleached Deodorized palmolein and other refined palm oils from 90% to 80%, together with an Explanatory Memorandum on the Notification. (Ends)

THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2004

(AMENDMENT OF ARTICLES 341 AND 342.) - (CONTD.)

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS (CHATTISGARH): Sir, I rise to make a few comments on the observations made by our hon. colleagues. Somebody raised a question about Dr. Ambedkar. I want to remind Members that Dr. Ambedkar embraced Buddhism and not Islam and Christianity, and there were reasons for it. Those who want to refute it can go through his life sketch and ponder as to why he did so. Let me also tell you what Shri Viekananda had said, "I go to preach a religion of which Christianity is a distant ego and Buddhism is a rebel child." You may rebel; no problem, but you honour the forefathers of this country; you honour the traditions of this country. That is what we believe in. I agree with you, Mandalji, that we should work for equality. We are all for equality. I do not know how you got an impression that we are against equality. We are all working for it, and hundreds and thousands of organisations working in this country, which are aligned with us, are working for the establishment of equality, removing untouchability in all. I perfectly agree with you that we should all work for it. I am sorry to learn from our people that there are Dalits amongst Muslims and Christians as well. I have a deep sympathy for them, and I do want them to work like the so-called Samaj Sudharaks, like, Dr. Ambedkar, to lead the community. Give them education; give them good training so that they come up to the mark. When I say I have no grudge against the pitiable conditions of the Dalit Muslims or Dalit Christians, I do want that they should also come up and be a part of this society. But then if they are calling their people to become Christians and Muslims because there is inequality in Hinduism, that is where I want say this.

(Continued by 2O)

TDB-NB/2O/4.05

SHRI SHREEGOPAL VYAS (CONTD.): You preach, you call the people to embrace Christianity or Islam because Hindus have divisions. At the same time, you go on telling that 'we also have divisions'. Both things cannot go together. What I want to say is, let all of us, including Muslims and Christians declare that we belong to the traditions of Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Nanak and even Raskhan. I want the people to openly declare this. The country belongs to this tradition. Are we prepared to declare all this? I want to remind the people what Raskhan had said. He said:

"֮ ֮,

Ε Ӿ ݾָօ

,

ָ ׮֟ Ӥ ָօ

׸ ׸ ,

ָ ׸ ָօ

,

״׻ ׻֮ ָօ"

Let us recall those great people. I want to inform the people because always some people come along and pass strictures on the RSS and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. I belong to both of them. I want to tell the people, inform people that Raskhan is pronounced in the ֟֟ and ֟: ôָ of the RSS in every shakha every day, because Raskhan embraced these traditions. I do agree with you that these people have not come from outside. Let them remember that they are the people of this soil, sons of this soil. Let them behave like the sons of the soil, and declare all these people as our grandfathers. If they do it, I am sure, all these problems will be solved.

Sir, I want to quote one more sentence from Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru's book, Glimpses of the World History. Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru had analysed the Hindu-Muslim problem in the letters written to Shrimati Indira Gandhi. Sir, through you, I want to tell the people, of course, they may be knowing, I am only reminding them. Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru had said 'that as long as Islam came here to preach Islam, there was no problem. But, when they came with a sword in their hands, the earlier feelings of goodwill turned into ן This is what I want to remind the people. If you want to love this country, then, call yourselves sons of all these great people. If you do this, then, I am sure, all these problems will be solved. I had suggested not to treat anybody as a minority in this country. Actually, I believe that nobody is a minority in this country. You are 20 crores. How can you call yourselves a minority? I request our great Law Minister, the Government and the people of this country to think that there is nobody as a minority in our country. We are all sons of the soil, daughters of the soil, and we are proud of this soil. That is all. Thank you very much for having given me the opportunity to speak on this Bill. (Ends) (Followed by kls/2p)


KLS/2P-4.10

SHRI URKHAO GWRA BRAHMA (ASSAM): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to speak on this Constitution Amendment Bill, 2004. Sir, the matter raised by hon. Member from Assam through this Bill is very complex and sensitive that needs practical approach to reach a conclusion. I am not rising here merely to support or oppose the Bill as other learned Members of this august house have done. Rather, I would like to bring to light the different face of the problems relating to this Bill. Sir there is no second opinion that the issue raised by hon. Member needs to be redressed properly. It is a fact that a large number of people had been picked up by the British tea planters about 150 years ago from the present Orissa, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Madhya Pradesh and they are now popularly known as Adivasi in Assam. They have been categorized as Scheduled Tribes or the Scheduled Castes in their own earlier States including West Bengal, but same status is not accorded to them in Assam and they now enjoy status of Tea Tribe or Ex-Tea Tribe.

The condition of the Adivasi people in Assam is pitiable and special care has to be taken especially in the field of education, health and economy. I appreciate the genuineness of this Bill so far as the developments of those people are concerned. But before reaching to any conclusion, I feel it necessary to take into account the other aspects of the problems especially the condition of the existing Scheduled Tribes in Assam also. I request the hon. Members not to consider it as opposition to the Bill. But I am expressing some hard realities that are there in Assam. Sir, I am very much concerned about the question of survival of the existing tribal groups of Assam the population of which are already marginalized due to the reason of process of infiltration and addition of new population in their regions since long. At present, Assam has already around three million tribal population and if the new groups as proposed in the Bill are also included in Assam's S.T. list that will be addition of another millions population, which is more than the existing original tribal population. The entry of such huge population into the tribal group of the state may be serious concern for the small tribal groups, who are now enjoying reservations in politics and economic field. Further, in Assam there are three-scheduled areas under the Sixth Schedule of the Indian Constitution like Bodoland, Karbi-Anglong & N.C. Hills and four more District Council areas under State Act, As per the existing provision of the Constitution in Scheduled Areas tribals have the rights and tribals are entitled to enjoy the Political Rights and economic rights in all respects. And this provision has not been changed. These District Council Areas have been created aiming to protection and preservation of cultural identity, political rights and economic development of some specific tribes. At the time of creation of those Councils, in the law and in the amendment of the Constitution it was specifically mentioned that Karbi-Anglong will be for Karbi people, and the N.C. Hills Bimansa and the Bodoland Territory Council is mainly meant for the Bodo people. The question will remain as to how this amendment of the Article 341 and 342 of the Constitution as moved today in the name of removal of constitutional discrimination will help the purpose of protection of interests of the original and minority tribal group of Assam, where this amendment will only marginalize their number and transfer the rights and privileges enjoyed now by them to new majority group. Such kind of situation will arise where one tribe will consider another tribe as a cause of problem in days to come. Sir, I strongly believe that our Constitution makers, while framing the same, might have framed this article also after having examined all these factors thoroughly that the condition of the tribal varies from State to State and so, that needs to be dealt with in a separate manner depending upon their various conditions. That must be the reason as to why they had categorized the list of Scheduled Tribes in the state basis and also laid down some existing restrictions too in the Constitution so that tribe of one region does not become a problem for a tribe in the other region.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Hon. Member, please don't talk.

SHRI URKHAO GWRA BRAHMA: It is significant to note that during the time of categorization of caste or community in Assam all the groups belonging to Mongoloid stock had only been categorized, as ST and others are either as SC or OBC. Sir, till today not much has been changed in this regard.

Sir, the frequent increase in the number of ST or SC after 58 years of our Independence also and despite all claims that the nation is emerging as an economic power in the world, is really a matter of concern. It shows the fact the majority section of our society is still not a part of nation's development process and still long way to achieve that position. Over 80 million tribal population of our country is still underprivileged. Not much has been done for their education, health, economy and social development. To bring about development in every aspect of their lives on par with the other developed society, a time-bound policy and action plan are the need of the hour.

Sir, once again I repeat my sincere concern for the problems of Adivasi people of Assam. They still need special care and a policy to look after their development aspect, including their constitutional status, is a must. The Government should try to explore all possible mechanism to distinguish their status in Assam by way of constitutional amendment also keeping in view the rights, privileges and concerns of the existing tribal people in respect of their political and economic rights. Thank you, Sir. (Ends) (Followed by 2Q)

2Q/HMS-SSS/4.15

߻ ן׸ () : ָ, ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ ֛ ִ֟ ֮ ײֻ 20 ֻ ֲ ٻִֵ ֤ , ִֵ ָ ִ և ָ ֳ ֕ ֳ ו օ ֲ ׮־ և ָ Ùߙ֮ ײֻ י Ӳ ִֵ י ֻ ׻֋ personal ׮־ , ֻ Ù ״׮Ù ״׮Ù , ֮ ߴָ , ָ ָ ֻ , ֕ ֤ ֲִֵ ֳ ևֻ ױ ָ, ִ և ָ 100 ֻ ֋ 150 ֻ ֋ ָ ןֵ , ָ ׸ߕ֮ ֵ֤ ױ ִֵ - ֮֕ן ֆ ר׾ֵ ָ ևֻ ָ ֮ ֵ ָ, ևֻ , ֛ ߕ ևֻ ן ӌ , ֟ , ֲ ֮֮ ֺ ևֻ ? ֻ֯ ֮ פ , פ ֤ ֋, ֵԮ ױ פ ֻ ֋, ֵԮ ִ֕ ֵ ֳ ִ֕ ֮ ֵօ ֻ , ß֮ abroad , ևֻ ֮ ֯ identification , ևֻ ֮ ֯ identity ևֻ ֻ language , ֻ-ֻ֮, ָ, և Ùև - ֟ ֺ ֟ ֲֵֻ

ָ, ֮ -1 ױ ߴ ׻֙׿ֵ ָ ֟ ߅ -1 ױ , և000/և000 ׻֙׿ֵ , ָ ׸֓ ֟ ӯ ֲֵֻ ָ ֋ ֻ ׸־֮ -1 ױָ ֟ , ױ ֲֵֻ ָ ָ ֟ և000/և000 no doubt Ù ֟ , ױ -- ֲֵֻ reflection ֺ ֟ ָ , ָ , ߿֮ פֵ

ָ, ֟ , ֲֵֻ ֮ ֯ ևױ֮ ֟, ֮ ָ ֮ ֲֵֻ ָ ֲֵֻ , ִ֟ ָ, ֟ , ֌ֆ ײֻ ֯ ׾ָ , ָ ֮ , ײֻ ֟ , ָ directly ֮ ߅ ָ, ֕ ֲֵֻ ָӛ , ӣֻ ָ֮ ׿ִ ֻ ס֯ ֛ , ֤ ֟ ָ ֌ ӟ ֛פ , ִ ï דֽ ׻, ֮ ֮ ״ֻ (2 ָ/ߋ־ ָ ֿ:)

HMS/PSV-NBR/2R/4.20

߻ ן׸ (֟) : ִ ï , ӡ ֵӕ כÙ , constituency օ ׻֋ ֯ ִ ևֻ ? ֈ ߻ ׸ו̮ ׸ו̮ כÙ , ֕ , ָ ֤- , ׸ ֮ Ӥ ևֻ Ù , ו Ù ևֻ ׯ׾ֻ ״ֻ֟ ו Ù ٙױ availability , ֛ Ù ٙױ available , ן - ֻ Ù ? և Ӿ׮ כ״֮֮ ? ֣ ևֻ Ù ٙױ ֕ ִ ֋ ֋, ֺ ָ ևֻ әÙ әÙ ߮ ֮ ևӛ ָ ׮ֵ֤ ֲָ ָ ־֮ ֮ ִ֟ ֯ ָ և , ևֻ ױ , ևֻ ٙױ ֮֯ ִ פ- ևօ ֯ և ֮ ָ֬ ָ և ֮ , և ן , ׸ߕͮ և , -, ֤- Ù և ָ, և ׬ָ ָ ָ, և ָ ֺ ֲ Ù ־֮Դ ־֮Դ ָ ׸וֻ֮ և , ׸וֻ֮ և marginalize ־֮ ֻ ֕ ֙ ָ ׻י ֟ , rather ָ ׸וֻ֮ և , և ֮ ևֻ ֮ ֟ , socio-economical development , ֻ ָ ִֻ֯ ֲ פ Ϭ֮ ӡ , և0ָ000 0ָ000 ߴ ևֻ ׻֋ ־֮֬ פ ֵ օ ִֵ ևֻ ן-׸֕ ֮ ֮֟ , ևԮ ֮ , ֮ ֮֟ ׻֋ ߴ ָ ֌ֱ և ߅ ׻֋ ֤--֤ ָ Ù ָ כ

- ָ Ù׌ ִ , ֌ ӕֲ ׸ , ֕ ־ָ , ָ ֣ ֟ , ևֻ Ù ֛ Ù ׯ֔ ײֻ ֙ և , ֟ ָ Ù֮ ִ , ִ ֯և , ָ ִ ִ ֲ ֮ ֮ ֌ ֟ , ֟ , ָ, - ֻ Ù ן ? ָ, ֯ ֻ ׮־ ׻֋ ֛

ָ, ևֻ ָ ֮ ֯ ִֵ ֋, ևֻ ָ ָ ׮־֙ߕ ָ ׸֓ ֲ ևֻ ׸ߕ֮ ֟ - , ׸ߕ֮ ־ ָ, ֮֕ , ָ ׸ߕ̮ ִ ־ ָ, ֵ ևֻ ֟ ևֻ ֮ ߅ ָ, - ևֻ פ Õ֤ ֟ ִ ֟ , ֵ֤ օ ևֻ פ, Õ֤ ׸ߕ̮ ֛ ֮ ָ ֛ ևֻ ֲָß ߙ ֛և Ӥ ֮ ևֻ ָ ָ , ־ִֵָ ָ , Ù ָ , - ָ , ָ֟ פ ֟ פ כӛ ꬵ פ ֮֮ ֟ פ ֟ , ևֻ פ, ֓ Õ֤ ֟ ֻ ־ִֵָ , ָ ׾ , ׯ , ևֻ ׾

(2/000 ָ ֿ:)

2S/klg/4.25

߻ ן׸ (֟) : ֮ , ߴ֮ ׿ֵ֮ ָ ָ ևֻ ֤ ִֻ֮ ָ , ևֻ ֤ և ָ ֤- ן-׸֕ ָ ֋, ֯ ִ ֮ ? ֮ ֻ-׸֕ ? ֮ Ùָ ֮ Ùָ և ֲ ֛ ִ ֮ Ùָ Ӿ ֵ, Ϭ֮ , ֮ ֲ ֤ ֛ ֮ ֵٕ֮ ֮֮օ ֳ ևֻ ׮֙ ևֻ ֟ ֤ כׯ׻֮ ֆ ן ֤ ïꌙ ׸ָ ֋ ׸ָ և ֟ כׯ֮ և , Ӿ ֵ ֮֮ כׯ֮ ֮ ן-߾֕, Ùָ ֮֮ ֵָ פ ֮, ևֻ Ùָ

, ׻֋ ֯ ׮־ ִ -և ևֻ ֵ֤ ֤ ֕ߵ ֓ , ֕ ָָ ָָ ָ ևֻ ׻֋ ߆ָ , ָ ׻֋ , ־׵ ֲ֛ ־֮֬ ׻֋ ֱָ כ֙, כִֻ֯ כ֙ , ׻֋ ׿ֵ-״ ִֻ֯ , ִ -և כִֻ֯ ֟ , ו֮֟ , , ֤ ִֻ֯, ֲ , օ ֲ ߱ ߴ ߕ, ֲ ״ֻ֟ , և֤ ֺ, ׸ָ Ӿ ֵ , וֻ ֵ , և ٙױ ״ֻ֟ , ָ ֛ ٙױ , ֮ ֯ -և , ֻ כև ײָ ֲ ֯ ֟ , ֤ ևֻ ָ , ֛ ևֻ ָ , ָ ֟ ևֻ ׻֋ ֯ ֮ ևי , כִֻ֯ , ֤ ׿ֵ-״ כִֻ֯ ևיױ֮ כӛ ׬ָ ֟ , ֟ , ֻܵ , ׻֋ ָָ ׮־ Ӳ ִֵ ؛ ײֻ , և  ײֻ ֟ ָ-ָ , ׻֋ 껵֮ ׮ֻ֮ ׻֋ ָָ ֮ ևֻ ֟ ֤ ֟ ײֻ : ִ֣Ԯ ֮־֤

(ִ֯)

׾ֵ֕ ָ (ָ֟) : ֳ֬ , ֲ ָߵ ֮֟ ֙ ײֻ, ٙ 341 342 ӿ֮ ׻֋ , ִ֣Ԯ ֮֟ ִ ևֻ , פ ֋ ָ ֤ ן , ֳ ׻י ֙ ֲ ֟ ֤ ִ֣Ԯ , ױ ֟ ֟ ֛ և ֲ և ײֻ ָ ֻ , ׸־֮ ִֻ ֓ ֵ ו ֤õ , ו֮ ֤õ ִֻ ֵ , և ֻ ֋, ָ֬ ָ ֓ ֻ և, ײֻ Ӥ ߅ 2/ ָ

AKA-PK/2T/4:30

׾ֵ֕ ָ (֟) : ױ ï™ ֟ ָ ןֵ ֟ ûִ 滛 Ù 滛 և ׿ֵ֮ 滛 Ù 滛 և ׸־֮ ֟ , ֲ ֤ ֕ ָ֬ ָ, ֮֕ן ָ֬ ָ ֮ Ù֮ 0 敵 ֟ Ӭ ԤԮ ״ֻ ֤ և 滛 Ù 滛 և ִ ™ߵ Ͼ ןֵ ִ֮ ֋Ӆ ׻֋ ֮ ֲ ϵ ״ ֻ ֛, 滛 Ù 滛 և, ֮ ׯ֔ , ߔ ִ֮ Ͼ ֣ , Ͼ ֣ ׻֋ ןֵ ֮և ևՅ ֲ ֓ ֻ ׻֟ ׸־֮ ֲ ֟ ֻ, ׻֟ ֲֻ֟ ? ֮ ֮ ״֡ ֲ ֟ , ߮ ָ ָ ִֻ֮ - ֋, ׯ֔ ֮ ֋, ֕ , ױ ֮֟ ׸ ׸ ו ָ ִ֮ , ֣ ִ֮ 20 ûִ , ָ և Ӆ ײ֮ ִϤ׵ ֟ , ִ ׻֋ ֮֟ ־Ԭִ ֳִ־, ߕ̴, ֮ ִ ָ ִ֮ , ߕ̴ ֟ , ֟ ߕ̴ , ־Ԭִ ֳִ־ ֵ֟ ָ ûִ ׯ֔ , ׸֮̾ և Ӭ Ϥ ػ פ, ֻ և ָ ׸֮̾, և ָ ׮ֻ פ, ߴ Ù פօ ׾֮֬ ֟ ׻ , ֱֻ ֟ , Ùײֿ ԅ ֮֟ ִ ״ ֛ , ֮֜ ֮֟ ֵֻ , ָ ָ ֤ ָ ™ ׾ օ ׻֋ ָ NDA ָָ ִֵ ֮ ָ ֋ ֕ ִ֣Ԯ ִֻ֮ , ׿ֵ֮ ֱֻ , , ֲֻ֟ ֱֻ ִ * ִ֕ , * ִ֕ , ֲ ׸̮ ׯ֔ ֻ, ֻ ֮ ֮ ׻֟ Ӭ ֣ ֵ , ֮ ֮ ׯֵֻ, ֮ ֮ ߵ, ֣ ֮־ߵ ־ָ ָ֬ ָ ֟ Ӭ * ™ ׌ ִ Ӥ֮ ֵֻօ ֟ Ӭ ֲ ׻֟ , * ִ ִ֕ , ™ߵ Ͼ ֮ ׻֋ Ӥ֮ , ֮ ִ֣Ԯ , ֻ֙ ֋, ֮ ֙ ֻ ߅ ֕ ׿ֵ֮ ֙ײ֙ , ûִ ֙ײ֙ ? ָ֬ ָ ׻֟ ܵ ָ ֙ײ֙ , , ׻֋ ֮ , ֮ ֮֮ , ִ֟ ִ֕ ݵ ֙ײ֙, ֮ ֮־ ֮־ ֣ Ծָ, , ו ָ ׻֟ ܵ ԅ ('2u/sch' ָ ָ)

PB-SCH/2U/4.35

׾ֵ֕ ָ (֟): ָ֬ ָ ֮ 滛 Ù ׸֮̾ פ, ׾֮֬ ïֻ ֮ פ ׻֋ ׸֮̾ ָ֬ ָ ׻֙ߕ ֕ ֛ ֻ ? ן þֵ 滛 Ù 滛 և ׻֋ ϵ֟

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.
ָ ׻֋ ݵ ֟ ֕ ֤֕ ״ֻ 60 ֻ , ֚ ֮ , օ ֲ ֮ ׾֮֬ ֵ֮ , ֲ ֮ ֻ ֋ ֳ ™ߵ Ͼ ֋ ֤ ׸֮̾ ־ֿ ֛߅ ֕ ׸֮̾ ֙ ֻ ֡ ֮ ֙ , ֮ ן ֓, ו֮ ׸֮̾ ״ֻ օ ןֵ ûִ ׸֮̾ ׿ֵ֮ ׸֮̾ ֛ , 滛 Ù 滛 և ׻֋ ֮ ׸֮̾ ׻֙ߕ Ӆ ֟ פ ָָ , ֙ , ֓

֮֟ ָ և , ֕ 533 ןֵ 滛 և ִ ָ ׯ֔ ןֵ , ו֮ ֕ ִ ™ߵ Ͼ ׯ֔ ֚ ֮ ֮ և פ, ױ ֕ ™ߵ Ͼ ֳ ֤õ ׾ִ֮ ׮־ Ͽ ״ ֛, - ןֵ, פ ֟ ֟և ևԅ ֕ ׿ֵ֮ ûִ ןֵ ָ ֟ ֟ , ׻֋ ֮ 滛 Ù , ֲֻ֟ 滛 և , 滛 Ù 滛 և ֙ײ׻֙ , ׻֋ և פ ֋ , ָ֬ ָ ׸֮̾ Ի ֮ ֟ ֯ ׻֋ ׾ִ֮ ׮־ ײֻ ֓ , ָ ûִ, ׿ֵ֮ ֟

֕Ԯ ֵ? 滛 և ֮ ֕Ԯ , ֕ ׻֋ ? ֲ "־ ִ ֳִ־" ֟ , ִ ֮֟ ִ ָ , ָ ׻֋ ؓ֟ ֟ , ֱ ֻ֓ ָ֬ ָ, ָ֮׿ , -ϻ֮ ϯӓ ִ֬ ִ ׸֟Ԯ , ׾ָ ָ ֤߲ 滛 և ִ ׸֟Ԯ ֲ ֤

ֵ֟, ֮֟ ִ , ׻֋ ֮ , ָ֟ , ֿ , ֮ , ֤ ִ ֵ֟ ָ ևֻ ָ ָ ֓, ָ Ӹ , ׻֋ ׸֮̾ 滛 և 滛 Ù ...(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Mr. Rupani, if you take more time ... ...(Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֕ ָ : ָ, ֲ ו֮֟ , ...(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, listen to me. ...(Interruptions)... Please listen to me. ...(Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֕ ָ : ֮ ֟ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֬: ֯ ָ ׮֋ ...(־֮֬) Please listen to me first. ...(Interruptions)... Please listen, if you take more time, Shrimati Sushma Swaraj will not be able to move her Bill. I am telling you this thing. Now, for the sake of your leader, I am saying it. So, you please conclude.

׾ֵ֕ ָ : , ָ, ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ ׻֋ ָ ִ֣Ԯ (ִ֯)

MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR (ORISSA): Sir, I wholeheartedly support this Bill. Articles 341 and 342 require amendment to make it more broad-based and inclusive. I am from Orissa and I understand the historical fact that migrant labourers used to go to Assam, Bengal and other parts of North-East to work in tea gardens at the early stages of tea industry.

(Contd. by 2w/SKC)

2w/4.40/skc

MS.PRAMILA BOHIDAR (CONTD.): My part of Orissa has the maximum number of Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled Castes, what we now call the KBK Districts. The labour force migrated from there. They have the same title, the same cultural and social system, but they do not enjoy equal privileges and rights. This amounts to injustice. One can change one's name through an affidavit, but a person cannot change his caste through an affidavit. These tea-garden workers, who migrated from Orissa, Jharkhand, Bihar and other States to West Bengal about 150 years ago, have retained their caste status. It is difficult to understand why they are not treated in the same manner in Assam.

Sir, with this amendment to Articles 341 and 342, this disparity among States in maintaining uniformity regarding Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes could be resolved. I would request this august House to adopt the amendment. Thank you. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Thank you, Shrimati Bohidar. Now, would the hon. Minister like to make an intervention or reply? ...(interruptions)...

THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL JUSTICE & EMPOWERMENT (SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR): Hon. Vice-Chairman Sir, hon. Shri Silvius Condpan has brought forward a Constitutional Amendment Bill for addition of a proviso to Article 341 of the Constitution that the castes, races or tribes or parts or groups within the castes, races or tribes, so specified by the President for a particular State or Union Territory, shall have the same status throughout the country, that is to say, a Scheduled Caste of one State shall be Scheduled Caste for the entire country, and also, addition of similar proviso to Article 342 of the Constitution of India.

We have had a long discussion on this subject, rather heated at times, for three days. There have been twenty participants; the last two participants were hurried, so they said, they supported it, rather briefly. Apart from expressing their views on the specific matter raised by hon. Shri Condpan, they have covered a very wide gamut of all the interests and concerns, showing their sensitivity for SCs and STs. I don't need to say that SCs and STs have suffered untold misery, plight, injustice, discrimination and atrocities from times immemorial. In the past, there were several attempts to undo this injustice, but nothing really succeeded to a notable extent. During the Freedom Movement by Mahatma Gandhi and other leaders of the Congress Party, serious attempts were made to improve the condition of the SCs and STs, and after Independence, when the Constitution was being framed, there were provisions made in the Constitution to this effect. (Contd. by 2x/hk)

HK/2x/4.45

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR (CONTD.): There were reservations provided for SCs and STs in employment, in educational institutions and also politically. Reservation for SCs was provided on 18th August, 1950 and thereafter for STs on 26th September, 1950. There was a list drawn up in the Constitution for SCs which had 938 castes and for STs which had 244 tribes. Now, I come to the particular question of granting ST status to Koch Rajbangshi, Tai, Ahom, Chutia, Moran, Matak, communities of tea garden and ex-tea garden tribes. There was Resolution passed by Assam Assembly on 5th August, 2004 and sent to the Ministry of Tribal Affairs for granting ST status to these eight communities, which I have just mentioned. I must clarify that the Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment deals with the Scheduled Castes and the Ministry of Tribal Affairs deals with the Tribals. Anyhow, I will be speaking on behalf of the Ministry of Tribal Affairs. First of all, I am sure everybody is aware, even then I would like to emphasise upon the modalities of granting SC/ST status to any community. First the States have to send their recommendations and ethnographic details to the Ministry concerned. Here in this case, the Ministry concerned was the Ministry of Tribal Affairs. The recommendations came to the Ministry of Tribal Affairs with the ethnographic details and then the Ministry sends it to the RGI. Once the RGI gives its approval, then it goes to either the National Commission for Scheduled Castes or the National Commission for Scheduled Tribes. Then it goes to the Cabinet. If they give their approval, then it comes to the Parliament for the Constitution amendment. This is the modality. In this case, after the State Assembly had passed the Resolution, it referred the matter to the Ministry of Tribal Affairs which referred it to the RGI. I would like to bring to your notice what the RGI had to say in this matter. Before I do that, I am sure all the hon. Members are aware, even then I would like to draw their attention as to how exactly the STs and SCs are included in the list. What are the criteria? In the case of STs, it is primitive trade, distinct culture, geographical isolation, shyness of contact and backwardness. These are five criteria. In case of SCs, it is extreme social, educational, economic backwardness arising out of untouchability. Untouchability is the main consideration. (Contd. by 2y/KSK)

KSK/4.50/2y

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR (CONTD): Now, I would like to give you the factual position so far as the comments of RGI regarding these eight communities are concerned. Now, first community is Koch Rajbangshi. Now, this is what the RGI has said. The RGI has stated that it has furnished its comments seven times, that is, in the year 1981, 1992, 1995, 1997, 2000, 2003, and 2005. The RGI has not supported the proposal for the inclusion in the year 2003 and reiterated its comment in the year 2005. The RGI has rejected the proposal. In case of Tai, Ahom, Chutia, Moran and Matak, the RGI has stated that they have furnished their comments four times, that is, in the year 1982, 1995, 1997 and 2005. The RGI has not supported the proposal in the year 1995 and reiterated its comment in the year 2005. So far as tea and ex-tea garden tribes are concerned, the RGI has stated that they have furnished their comments four times - in the year 1978, 1981, 1995 and 2005. The RGI has not supported the proposal. And, the reason that they have given is that this has been done mechanically. On the recommendations which have come from Assam, the RGI has made an observation that this has been done mechanically without giving due consideration to ethnographic details and concluding in the end of a discussion, the community deserves to be included in the Scheduled Tribe list. In regard to 97 communities, which are clubbed under one caption of tea tribes, the State Government has itself stated in its latest report that they do not have primitive trades and that they are not geographically isolated. In regard to the communities of Koch Rajbangshi, Ahom, Mataks, Moran, and Chutia, the study report of the year 2005 furnished by the Government of Assam is shorter version of earlier elaborated report submitted in 1994. No additional ethnographic information or justification has been provided by the State Government to re-examine once again. In short, one community, tea-tribe, has 97 communities. Their proposals have been rejected by RGI. So, the matter rests there.

Now, I have great reverence for the Father of the Constitution. I must compliment the framers of the Constitution that they have made the modalities of inclusion and exclusion of various castes and tribes in the SC and ST list in the Constitution strict enough to ensure that only those who are really deserving, deserving SCs and STs, are entered into it. Yet, they have also made sure that it is not so strict and complicated that those who are deserving, are not included in it. In 1950, in the SC list, we had 938 castes and presently, we have 1206 castes. So, it is not that the new castes have not been added.

(continued by 2z)

GSP-4.55/2Z

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR (CONTD.): At the same time, they are very careful in scrutinizing and ensuring that only those who are deserving get entered.

Similarly, in 1950, there were 244 Tribes but now in the list, there are 706 Tribes. So, this is how the Constitution operates. Besides, in 2002, Parliament enacted 3 Acts and 18 new Communities and 43 synonymous Communities, which actually meant 61 Communities, were included in the list of Scheduled Caste. This is just to give a picture of how the inclusion is done.

Now, coming to the crucial part of the Bill, which has been brought by Shri Silvius Condpan, that the SCs/STs are State specific, UT specific and area specific.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Meiraji, how many more minutes will you take?

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR: Well, I have to take some time because there has been such a heated debate.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I am just asking because...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR: I will take some time. (Interruptions) I can continue next time. I cannot hurry...(Interruptions) I won't be answering everything. (Interruptions) I can answer next time. I have no problem.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: There are two more minutes. (Interruptions)

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: But if she wants to spend another twenty minutes, let us continue. (Interruptions) She may continue.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You continue for two more minutes. After that, you can continue next time.

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR: I can do that. So, the Constitution provides that SCs/STs are State specific, UT specific and area specific. This is article 341 and article 342, which the hon. Member wants to be amended. (Interruptions)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Reply will continue till next time. You can continue.

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR: Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament wants that the SCs/STs should not be State specific, UT specific or area specific but should be uniform for the entire country. This is what he wants. Sir, India is a vast country with a very complex social structure. We have so many regions; we have so many States, Union Territories and in the entire country, we have this very dubious system called the Caste System. Earlier, it was confined to one religion. Historically, this Caste system is confined to Hindu religion. (Contd. by YSR/3A)

-GSP/YSR/5.00/3A

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR (CONTD.): Subsequently, some religions came which were reformist religions. Sikhism was a great reformist religion, which talked of equality. Buddhism was a great reformist religion, which talked of equality.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Meiraji, you can continue the reply on the next day allotted to the Private Members' Legislative Business which is 25th August 2006.

SHRIMATI MEIRA KUMAR: Okay.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: The House is adjourned till 11.00 a.m. on Monday, the 14th August 2006.

------

The House then adjourned at

one minute past five of the clock till eleven of the clock on

Monday, the 14th August 2006.

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