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NBR-USY/SC/1Q/2.00

The House reassembled at two of the clock,

MR. CHAIRMAN in the Chair.

_____

RE. REJECTION OF SHRI NATWAR SINGH'S PRIVILEGE MOTION AGAINST PRIME MINISTER, DR. MANMOHAN SINGH

 

MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, I have received a notice, dated the 4th August, 2006, from Shri Natwar Singh, wherein he has stated, inter alia, that within a few minutes of the submission of the Pathak Commission's Report to the Prime Minister the main findings of the Report were made available to the media; that the Report had neither been shown to him nor a copy of it was laid on the Table of Rajya Sabha. He has, therefore, requested that under Rule 188 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Rajya Sabha, he be allowed to raise this matter of breach of privilege of the House.

As the House is aware, Justice R.S. Pathak Inquiry Authority was appointed by the Government on the 11th November, 2005. The Government laid the Report of this Authority, along with Action Taken Report, on the Table of the House on the 7th August, 2006. The Report of the Authority had been presented to the Government on the 3rd August. It is sad as well as unfortunate that some contents of the Report came to be known to the media that very day. It would have been appropriate and desirable that when Parliament was in session, no part of the Report should have become public before it was presented to Parliament. This is definitely a serious matter which needs to be looked into and investigated. However, this matter, though very unfortunate and deplorable, does not involve the question of any breach of privilege of the House. Past precedents in similar cases also lead me to reach the decision that this matter does not constitute any breach of privilege of the House. I accordingly hold that the said notice is not admissible. Now, Special Mentions.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, before you take up Special Mentions, I would like to submit that I had given a notice to raise a issue during the Zero Hour, which you had permitted to raise. (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Zero Hour is over. (Interruptions)

..׻ֵ : ָ״֙ օ ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Zero Hour is over. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Zero Hour is over. (Interruptions)

ӟ ֛פ : ֮֯ ػ , Zero Hour is over. ..(־֮֬)..

ֿ־ӟ ֮ : ֲ ָ ֯ ߓ ? ..(־֮֬).. I am making a request to the Chairman. Who are you to give the ruling? (Interruptions)

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך ..(־֮֬).. I will deal with him. (Interruptions)

ֿ־ӟ ֮ : ָ֮ ?.. (־֮֬).. (־֮֬).. ֤ ֻ֮ ..(־֮֬).. ֤ ֻ֮ ..(־֮֬).. ֲֻ֟ ? ָ ..(־֮֬).. ֤ ֻօ..(־֮֬)..

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seats. (Interruptions)

ֿ־ӟ ֮ : כ ׻֋ (־֮֬).. ֈ Ӭ ̤֕ օ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ׮־ Who are they to decide? ֕ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ӟ ֛פ : ? (־֮֬)..ֲ ߸ ָ ?..(־֮֬).. ֻ ֯ ?

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך ..(־֮֬)..He is talking to me. (Interruptions) Please take your seats. (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Who are they to give the ruling? (Interruptions)

..׻ֵ : ָ, ֮ , ™ߵ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ך ߅..(־֮֬)..֯ ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ™ߵ þ׳ִ֮ ֻ ?..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯? ..(־֮֬).. ִ֟ ߸ ָ ֟ ֵ, ֯ ֟ ֮ օ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ָ, ïֻ ֮ ִ ׻ֵ ֋..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : օ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI S.S. AHLUWALIA: Sir, it is a matter of national importance. (Interruptions) It is a matter of national security. (Interruptions) It is a matter of swabhimaan of India. (Interruptions)

ֳ֯ן : ..(־֮֬).. , ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ֟ ו֋, ..(־֮֬)..

0 ִ ӛָ : ָ ֻ ..(־֮֬)..ֳ ™ߵ ..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ָ, ָ ™ ֤֕ ֣ ו ָ ß֮ ֵ, ֟ ?..(־֮֬)..

֟־Ο ֟ : ָ, ïֻ ֮ ׻ ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ׮֋ ..(־֮֬).. ו֋..(־֮֬).. ״֮֙ ו֋..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ָ, ™ߵ ׾ֵ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ״֮֙ ו֋, ״֮֙ ׮֋..(־֮֬)..֯ ו֋..(־֮֬)..֕ , ß֮ ָ ֤֕ ߯ ֣ ו ָ ײ ֵ..(־֮֬).. ֟ ו֋ ..(־֮֬).. ӲӬ י פ ߸ ָ ֈօ..(־֮֬)..֯ ו֋..(־֮֬)..

..׻ֵ : ֟ ? ..(־֮֬)..֕ ֮ ָ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ׻֋, ֵօ..(־֮֬).. (Followed by 1r -- MP)

-USY/VP/2.05/1R

SPECIAL MENTIONS - (CONTD.)

MR. CHAIRMAN (CONTD.): Shri K. Kamraj. ..(Interruptions)...

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Sir, I was called in the morning. ..(Interruptions).. Sir, it was my Special Mention.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

CONCERN OVER HUGE BACKLOG OF CASES IN VARIOUS

COURTS IN THE COUNTRY - (CONTD.)

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY (KARNATAKA): Sir, it is stated that 1.62 crore cases are pending in different courts, of which 1.18 crore are pending in magisterial courts. Thousands of people are said to be languishing in various jails awaiting trials. Such gigantic backlog is primarily attributed to the woeful lack of judicial officers at various levels. Poor infrastructure and facilities in the courts further compound the situation, which is more pathetic at the district level courts. It calls for concerted effort from all concerned to find a solution to the gigantic problem.

The excruciating delay in settlement of court cases is a matter of great concern to the litigants as also to the Judiciary and the Government. Cases filed decades ago still remain to be settled. Though the people have not lost hope in the Judiciary and its ability to render justice, a sense of despondency nevertheless takes over and lends credence to the age-old adage, 'justice delayed, justice denied.'

A beginning should be made by improving the infrastructural facilities in all courts. Towards this objective, the Centre should allocate, at least, Rs. 3000 crores. The Bar Associations, the Judiciary and the Government should endeavour to hasten the process of litigation. The Government could consider setting up fast track courts and introducing enhanced working hours or shift system at all courts.

All this is to be done for sustaining the hope and confidence of the people in these temples of justice. (Ends)

 

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN IN THE CHAIR)

NEED TO RECRUIT TEACHERS IN CENTRAL SCHOOLS

FROM TAMIL NADU

SHRI THANGA TAMIL SELVAN (TAMIL NADU): Sir, I wish to bring to the notice of the Government the need to revise eligibility criteria for the post of teachers in Central Schools. There are 929 Central Schools in the country employing more than 35,000 teachers. Every year hundreds of candidates are selected from across the country by the Government for appointment as teachers in Central Schools. But since 1986, no candidate from Tamil Nadu could apply for the post of teachers because of the requirement of knowledge of Hindi as an essential qualification. Until 1986 any candidate with the requisite qualifications for the posts of teachers could apply for selection in Central Schools. But later, knowledge of Hindi had been made compulsory for the post of all categories of teachers in Central Schools including English teachers. This decision has debarred well-qualified and trained candidates, from Tamil Nadu, from applying for the posts of teachers in Central Schools. This injustice has disappointed thousands of teacher-trained candidates in Tamil Nadu as they feel they are deprived of their right to employment under the Union. As teachers who were selected prior to 1986 have been performing well in these schools, there is no reason to debar them by making the knowledge of Hindi compulsory. There is no logic in curtailing the rights of citizens for employment on the basis of language. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to review this decision and allow all eligible candidates without making Hindi an essential qualification.

(Ends)

SHRI AMAR SINGH (UTTAR PRADESH): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

SHRI N. JOTHI (TAMIL NADU): Sir, I also associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

SHRI S. ANBALAGAN (TAMIL NADU): Sir, I associate myself with it.

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (TAMIL NADU): Sir, we all associate ourselves with it. (Ends) (Followed by PK/1S)

-VP/PK/1S/2.10

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shrimati Syeda Anwara Taimur, not present. Shri Santosh Bagrodia.

CONCERN OVER MAOIST THREAT TO INDIANS IN NEPAL

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, I rise to commend the attention of the House to recent media reports on the threats being given to Indians in Nepal by the Maoist groups. As was reported, the Indians working in Nepal are being threatened to leave that country by the Maoist groups and the Indians, in large numbers, fearing for their lives and livelihood, are approaching our Embassy for protection. As was reported, the Maoist groups have been systematically stoking anti-India demonstrations. There have also been reports of extortions from Indian businessmen, or, professionals settled in that country. While India supports the consolidation of democracy in Nepal, such organised revanchist incidents against Indians residing in Nepal would undermine the traditional friendship and cooperation between the two countries. We expect that a democratic Nepal would also be a liberal State. For that to happen such instances of organized hate-violence against Indians must be curbed by the Government of Nepal. In the context of reports of increased activities of Pakistan-sponsored terrorist groups in Nepal, such organized anti-India feelings by the Maoist organisations do raise serious apprehensions about possible linkage between such terror outfits and the Maoist groups. I ask the Government of India to seek credible action against such acts from the Government of Nepal. The Government should engage the Government of Nepal to prevent that country from becoming a hub of anti-India activities. I also seek that the Government should direct our Embassy in Nepal to take earnest steps to protect Indians and Indian interests that have been sanctified by long tradition of Indo-Nepal friendship. (Ends)

PROF. RAM DEO BHANDARY (BIHAR): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

NEED FOR SETTING UP OF

NEW RAIL COACH FACTORY IN MADHYA PRADESH

 

SHRI C. PERUMAL (TAMIL NADU): Sir, the Integrated Coach Factory was set up at Perambur in Chennai 50 years back. The factory has produced a large number of coaches and those coaches were also exported. But the importance of this coach factory has been diminishing day by day. Now, this factory is producing only 1150 coaches in a year. Another coach factory was set up at Kapurthala in Punjab a few years back, but that factory is producing 1500 coaches a year.

The population of our country has increased, and the number of trains has also increased. There is always an acute shortageof railway coaches in our country. With the existing supply, we are not able to meet the demand. With ever-growing demand for introduction of new trains, it has become impossible to meet the demand.

Considering the heavy demand and inadequate supply, I suggest that a new coach factory may be set up preferably in the Central region, say, Madhya Pradesh.

Moreover, we are producing outdated coaches. We should produce modern coaches which should be disabled-friendly, suiting modern-day requirements and also keeping future technology in mind. All the outdated coaches should be replaced in a time-bound manner. For this purpose, all the factories should be modernised. In Southern Railways, the coaches being used are dirty, shabby and outdated even when the coach factory is located within the jurisdiction of Southern Railways. Therefore, I demand that the Integrated Coach Factory at Perambur should be modernized and expanded. A new coach factory should be set up and all the outdated coaches in the Southern Railways should be replaced. Thank you. (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Shri Vijay J. Darda, not present.

(Contd. by 1T/PB)

NB-PB/1T/2.15

ֳ֯ן( ֟) : ִ ֵָ , ֯ ׻֋

ִ ֵָ : ֮־֤ ֕ ֮ פ ֵ , ו פ ֮ ϵ , פ ֮ פ ֵ օ

ֳ֯ן : ׻֋

ִ ֵָ : ֳ֯ן , ֲָ ֮ ֮ և ֲ ֮֟ ֻ֮֟ ..... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ֜ ו֋, written text , ֋, ֋օ

ִ ֵָ : ׻֋, ֯ ֟ ֮

ֳ֯ן : ֮֮ ֛߅

CONCERN OVER BRUTAL MUDERS IN DELHI

ִ ֵָ (ָ Ϥ) : ֳ֯ן , ֯ ִ֬ ֮֮ߵ ֤ ֮ פ ײ֛ ֮ ־ã ãן ֟ , ֋ פ פ ֮ ֻ ֙ י פ 31 և ֻ ָ , ׸ָ ֳ ֤õ ֮־ߵ ֑֮ ևԅ þֵ ִ ׮ֲִ ֙ ָ ݵֻֿ ׸ָ ִ ןִ ָ ã֟ , ־ ׸ָ ׻֯֙ օ ֑֮ ֮ ׾ֻ ֮ ߾֮ օ ֵ ֆ ֣ ָֻ֟, ױ ׮ִԴ֟ ֙, ֛ - , ׾ָ֤ ֙ ߅

ֳ֯ן , ֙ֆ ָ ָ , ֡ خ֤ ֌ ִ ֻօ Ͽ֮ ׸ ֮ ־ֿ ֣ ֮֮ߵ ֵֵֻ ֙ֆ ָ ܟ ֮֟ ֵ פ ֋, ו ָ׬ֵ ֻ֮ ֮֮֯ ֋ ִ֮֮ ָ֟ Ӥ ֋ ֙ ֮֮ , ׻ ־ֿ

ֿ פ ׻ ߑ ָ׬ֵ ֲִֵ ߅ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

NEED TO DEVELOP ULTRA MEGA POWER PROJECT AT TADRI IN UTTAR KANNADA DISTRICT OF KARNATAKA.

 

SHRIMATI PREMA CARIAPPA (KARNATAKA): Sir, my Special Mention is regarding the need to develop ultra mega power project at Tadri in Uttar Kannada District of Karnataka.

Sir, the Union Ministry of Power proposes to develop ultra mega power projects of the capacity of 4000 MW and above in various parts of the country, and, understandably, five sites, including a site in coastal Karnataka, are under consideration of the Ministry. As per the strategy for each site, a Special Purpose Vehicle or a Shell Company will be formed, which will prepare the detailed project report, get statutory clearances and land acquisition. Thereafter, the project developer would be identified on the basis of international competitive bidding. The Karnataka Power Corporation Limited has identified a site at Tadri in Uttar Kannada district, where 1800 acres of land is already available and another 1200 acres can also be acquired, as the project will require 3000 acres of land. The State Government of Karnataka has already informed the Ministry of Power about the availability of the site at Tadri and the site has also been inspected.

I, therefore, demand that the Central Government should accord its approval for the site at Tadri and initiate developing the Ultra Mega Power project there without further loss of time. There is a minor port at Tadri which may also be developed, so that ships carrying coal for the proposed power plant can easily come to the port. I hope, the Government will give its topmost priority to this power project at Tadri in my home State Karnataka. Thank you. (Ends) (Followed by 1u/SKC)

1u/2.20/skc-akg

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The rest of the Special Mentions will be taken up after the Legislative Business. ...(Interruptions)... The rest of the Special Mentions will be taken up after legislative business...(interruptions)...This is the decision...(interruptions)... ָ decision ׻ֵ Shri Pawan Kumar Bansal.

THE ACTUARIES BILL, 2006

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL): Sir, I beg to move

 

That the Bill to provide for regulating and developing the profession of Actuaries and for matters connected therewith or incidental thereto, as passed by Lok Sabha, be taken into consideration.

 

Sir, in simple terms, an actuary is a person skilled in determining the present effect of future contingent events. The Actuarial Society of India, which is there at Bombay, was registered under the Bombay Public Trust Act and the Societies Registration Act. So far, only 203 members of the ASI are entitled to practise, and out of them, only 137 are in the country, while 66 are outside the country.

Sir, with the expansion of economic activity, particularly that in the Insurance sector, it has been felt that there is greater need for the actuaries to really take up various works assigned to them. As such, Government has come up with this Bill. This Bill was referred to the Standing Committee. The Standing Committee deliberated at length on this Bill, made certain worthwhile suggestions, including one relating to the definition of the actuary itself. We have incorporated those amendments in the Bill. The Bill was passed by the Lok Sabha and that is how we are here before you.

Sir, this Bill, on the lines of the laws governing the Company Secretaries, the Chartered Accountants and the Cost and Works Accountants, takes into consideration the need to regulate this profession now. Earlier, because of the restrictive practice, as you would appreciate, Sir, there was very limited role for the actuaries as such. But, today, the Insurance sector is growing up and the need of actuaries is being felt in many areas. Hence, it was felt that instead of the Society registered under the Societies Registration Act, there is need to have an Institute of Actuaries, and also, to provide for various provisions governing their profession as such.

Sir, this Act deals with the incorporation of the Institute of Actuaries, the composition of the Council of the Institute, which would manage the affairs of the Institute. It deals with general meetings, elections to the Council, establishment of tribunal to deal with matters of dispute relating to the elections of the Institute; committees of the council to deal with various matters including disciplinary matters, etc. In any profession, the need to maintain high standards of professional conduct is of the utmost importance and that care has been taken here in this Bill. The Schedule contains a list in detail about what could be professional misconduct. So, there are provisions in the Bill, which deal with cases of misconduct through the Disciplinary Committee. There is provision to appoint a Prosecution Director, who, along with other employees, could assist the Disciplinary Committees about various matters which come up before the Disciplinary Committee.

Sir, there is provision for an Appellate Authority, for matters to be finally decided there. This Appellate Authority would be the one which is there for the Chartered Accountants also, excepting with the change that when it deals with matters relating to the Actuaries, it would be the Actuaries who will replace the Chartered Accountants, or, for that matter, the Cost and Works Accountants. It is because there is not much work before the Appellate Authority as such that a common authority with the necessary changes has been provided for. There is also a provision for establishment of the Quality Review Board.

(Contd. by 1w/hk)

HK-HMS/1w/2.25

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL (CONTD.): It is felt that to achieve the best world practices in this profession, there is a need to have a Quality Review Board which would consider matters from time to time, and then lay down that as to what are the best practices, what quality has to be maintained and that has been provided for. This Bill has received unanimous and all round support from Members of the Lok Sabha and in the other House. I urge upon the hon. Members here also to take the Bill into consideration and ultimately pass it.

The question was proposed. (Ends)

00 ׻ֵ (ָӛ) : ֳ֯ן , Actuaries Bill, 2006 ִ֣Ԯ ׻֋ ֛

, ָ֬߮ ָ ֲ 1935 ־֮Դ כ ֵ ֣-֣ 1938 ӿ ֵ, ָ ӿ ׻֋ ߕ ֺ ֛ , ֌ ֮ ֵօ ֌ ײי ִ֕־֤ ֻ֟߮ ָ ߕ ָ ֌ ߕ ָ ֵօ 1938 ӿ ֺ ֵ , ߕ ߬ ֮֮ ָ ֛ ֲ ֟ The Actuary assesses the financial impact of uncertain future events by methodically analysing the past, modelling the future and quantifying the likely range of financial outcomes from different future events.

ָ ָ ִ , 1944 ߕ ֵ֙ כ ֮, ָ ֤֕ ־֕ וÙ ԅ 1982 וÙ ԅ ָ ֲ ָ ֤֕ ֌ ߲ 245 ӿ ׮ֵ 1956 ־֮Դ 245 ӿ ׮ֵ ™ߵ ׻ֵ և ӿ ָ֮ ӿ - ײ֮֕ ֟ ֤ 1982 ֲ ߕ ֵ֙ߕ כ ֮ ֯ כ֮ ֵ֙ߕ וÙ ֲ ֮֮ , ӡ ֟

, ֤֕ ֣-֣ ׮ֵ ֈә ָ ׻֋ ִֵ-ִֵ ָ ־֮֬ ֋, Ùߙ ֙ ֈә, Ùߙ Ù ӛ ֌ ֈә Ùߙ ֮ ߕ ֵ֮ ׮, ™ ׮ִ ִ ֤ ߅ ֵ֤ , ָ ӡ ֟ ߲ 203 207 ߕ Ùߙ ߕ, Ӥ ֟ ߕ כ, ߕ ֋֮ כ ָ , ָ ׿֯ Ӥ ֛ ߲ 200 , 75 ֤ ו֮ 65 ֻ ֤ ֋ ָ 1956 ֲ ָ ӿ ֮ߕ ָָ ֣ ֵ ߻ ֮֯օ ֤ ֻ ߕ ֵ֤ ߻ ֮ , ׸ָ ׮֙ߕ ׮֙ߕ ֵ ִֵ , օ (1/ߋ־ ָ ֿ:)

HMS/PSV-KSK/1X/2.30

00 ׻ֵ (֟) : , 2002 ׸ ֻ Ùߙ ֮ ׮ֻ ֕ ㆸߕ ׸ָ , ֻ Ù 2001 ㆸߕ ׸ָ ָ , ִָ ֮ ? ָ - ׾׳֮ ִֻ֯ , ֟: ֮ ӿ ꌙ ָ ? ֣ כ, ֋ ӿ ֣ -֮օ ӿ ֣ ָ 껛 ֲ ֱָ ߕ ֲ ߕ ֮ ֣ , ָ ㆸߕ ֜ ߕ , ӿ ̸֧֕ ֟ ִֵ-ִֵ ָ ָ ֋-֋ ֮ ֮֋ ֋, և-և և և, և-և ׻ߕ כָ Յ , ָָ և ӿ ֮ ֮ , ֻ , ָ ֱ ㆸߕ ֻןֵ ָ , ָ , ֮ ֺ ָ ֻ֮ ִ ָ ׾ִ ֮ ֮ ֓ ִ ָ דֻ ֮ ֮, ֋ ָ ꅠ ָ ָ ㆸߕ ֕ ו֮ ָ ֮ , ׯ״ִֵ Ѭ, ֮ ׸ ֮ , օ ָ ָ ؙ כߕ֮ , ֮ , ֮֟ , ָָ ֛ ָ֬- օ Either take it or leave it. ӛ ׻ߕ ֟ ӛ ֮ ָ ו֋ և ׻֋ ӿ ֟ ӿ ֮ ֻ, persuade ׻֋ ֟ , ָ ָ-ָ ϻ֮ ־֕ ӿ ֮ ׻֋ ָ , ִ֮ ֻ֮ ֟ , օ

, ֲ ㆸߕ ָ , Ùߙ ָ ֟ , ֕ ָ : ӿ ׮ֵ , և ӿָ , ־֮Դ ָ ֻև ֟ ѓ ָ ӿ , ־ֵ 21 և ӿ ׮ֵ և , וִ֮ 13 և ӿ ׻֋ 8 ָ ӿ ָ ִ ׸ ֜ ָ ㆸߕ , ֣ ו֮֟ և ӿ ׮ֵ և , content ԟ ָ֙ ׾֤ ׾֤ ָ֙ ׾֤ ㆸߕ ֮ ׻ߕ unbundle , ֕ ָ ֯ ָ֕ ִә ֋, ֯ , ׯ֔ 50 0և00 ֵ֮, ֯ ֟ ׸, ֲ և ָ ָ֕ ֋ ָ֕ unbundled ׻ߕ , ؙ 0և00 ֤ ֤ ָ ֣ ֤ ߕ ָ ߕ ׸ פ ָ כ ׸ ֮ ֮ ֮֟ , ֮֟ ָ ㆻ ׸ ֕ פ ־ ֡ ײ׻֋ә Ù , ׸ ֮ , ֲ י ÙיÙ ֻ ֡ , ֳ ㆸߕ և ִ ֮ ׻֋, ֮֜ ׻֋ Ùߙ , Ùߙ ָ և Ùߙ և ׮־֙ߕ , ָ ֟ ܟ ֺ Ùߙ ㆸߕ ꅠ ָ ױ Ùߙ ㆸߕ, ֯ ֟ , ִ ֮֯ ־֮֬ ֯ ִ ׾׳֮ ָ ָ

(1և/000 ָ ֿ:)

1Y/KLG/2.35

.. ׻ֵ (֟) : ִ ֵָ ֮֋, ֻ   ־֮Դ ״֮ ו֮֟ ܵ , ӡ , Ùߙ ֻ , ֮ ֻ ׸ֵָ ֻ ־֮Դ ׸ ֮ ֋ ִ ֯ ָ ֮և, ו֮ ㆸߕ և ֮ , ㆸߕ և ׸֌ ָ ָ֮ ָ , ֵ ׾֮֕ , ֻ ֜ ִ և ֮֯ ևԆָߋ ָ ևԆָߋ ӿ ׸ , և ֟ ִ֮ ֣-֣ ֮֯ כ֙ ֵә ָ ָ , , ֮ ֟

ֳ֯ן , ֮֯ ־֮֬ ָ , ו ㆸߕ և ֮ ӿ ꌙ ֮ ִ֟ ָ ָ ֯ ִ ־֮֬ ֟ ָ ㆸߕ և ׸֌ , ֮ , ֟ ָ ֋, ו ֌ ֯ ֈӛ֮ , ָ , ֌ ֯ ֺ , ו֮ ֯׸ ֱ ㆸߕ և Ùߙ ֮֮, ִ ֮֮ ִ әֻ֮ Ùӛ ֮֮ , ָ .. ㆸߕ և ִ ֟ ? ָ ֮ ㆸߕ և ׻֋ , և ׯ֔ ֕ ֙ ֻ , ָ ֻ ָ ӿ ֮ ָ ӿ ֮֟ , ׯ֔ ֙ ֻ , ֙ ֻ ֱ ׸ ߻ ׸֮ ׸ ߻ ֙- ׸ ߻ ֛- ׸ ߻ ? ㆸߕ ֤ , ֙ ָ ָ ֟ ֙ ֻ ָ ָ ֕ ָ ׻֋ ָ ָ ֛ .. ߠ , ֵ֤ ִ , ָ , әֻ֮ ӿ, әֻ֮ ֵ֙ײ׻י ׻֋ ӿ , ִ ֺ ֙ ֟

ֳ֯ן , ֵֿ ֟ , ֛ - ֟ , օ 1984 ֵָ ӿ , ָ ֵָ և ָ ֵָ , ӿ ֮ ֻ ӿ ֮֟ ָ և և , ֵָ և ָ , ֻ - ְֻ ߅ և , ӿ ָ , օ ױ , פ ֟ פ ִ-ָ ׸ ӛ ֛ ֛ דָ֮֟ ֙ ԅ ֲ ӛ ֛ ֛, ִ-ָ ֛ ֹן ֛ ָ ֜ ֋ ֵ֤ ֛ ָ ֜ ֋ ֛ ׯ֓ פօ ӛ ֮-֮ ֮֕ ֮֕ ָ ֛ ׯ֓ և, ׯ֓ ֵ, ֙ ׯ֓ ֵ, և և ӿ ֮ ֻ ֟ ӛ , ָ ߕ֮ ߕ֮ ߛ ׻֋ , כ և ֯ ײػ ֋ ֛ ָ ֙ ֋ , û֯ ֋ , , ָ ӛ ָ , ...(־֮֬)

ָ, ֟ ָ ֮ ֺ ָ ֺ ֲ ִ Ù , ָ ֯ ָ Ù Ù Ù Ù , ָ ֛ ָ ֲ ֵָ , ו ӛ ֮ , ֤ ָ ֻ, ֵ֤ ֋ ㆸߕ և ֟ ? ֟ ֙, ֈӛ ׸׻֙߅ ֈӛ ׸׻֙ ָ , ֕ ֯ ֟ և ִ֬ ִ ָ Ԍ ָ և , ...

1/ ָ

AKA-GSP/1Z/2:40

00 ׻ֵ (֟) : և , ևיÙ ôוÙ , , ׾֤ , ׸ '߮' ֲ ֵ, ֤ ꌙߕ և '߮' ֵ ִ ӿ ֻ ֛ , , օ ֙ ֳ ֮ ֲ ֯ ֙ ֲֻ ֱ߮ ָÙ֕ ֙֋ ֙ , ו֮ ָ ߕ ߕ ִ֮ ֮ ֛ ꌙ ? ֯ ׻ ֮֟ , ֮֟ , ֮ ֌ ֯ ֮ ֻ ׻֋ , ֮ ֲ ֯ ״ִֵ Ӭ֟ , ָ ߓ ״ִֵ ֱ߮ כÙ ֟ , ָ ֛ , ָ ׻֋ ? ӿ ֯ ֋, ׸י ׸ ׻֋ ӿ , ׸ ׻֋ ? ߅ ׻֋ , ֛ ׻֋ ? , ֙ , ֙ ꌿ ֺ ꌙ׸ֻև ֛ ֙֕ ָ ָ ӡ ײֻ ֋ ꌙ׸ֻև ֮ ׻֋

֟ ֟ 㴲և և ONGC ו֮֟ ָ Ù , ָ ו֮֟ ָ Ù ׌ִ֯ , ӿ , , әֻ֮ , , Ù ָ ֤ , ׻֋ әֻ֮ , ֻ֮ ֮֋, ִָ ֤ؕ ֵ ָ ׌ִ֯ ָ֬ ֟ 㴲և ֯ և ֯ և ִ ָ ֟ ֛ ָ ֵָ ֟ , ו ïߛ ָ ֟ , , ִ ִ ֵ ו֮֟ ׌֛ , ֯ ֟ ו֋ ִ 80 ֤ ׌֛ ׻֋ ֵָ ִ ֟ ֟ ? ו֮֟ ïߛ ֮֯ ։ ֛ ָ, ïߛ ׻֋ ֵָ ֮ օ ֛ և ߙ , ֵָ ïߛ ׻֋ ֮օ ָ ֯ ֛ ӿ ׻֋ , ֯ ïߛ ָ ֻ , ׻֋ ׌֛ ֵօ և ߙ 250 ߙ ïߛ ָ ֯ , ֮֯ ֯ և ֵ֮ ָ ߕ ֙֕ ꌙ ֺ ֻܵ ꌙ׸ֻև Ù ֲ ꌙߕ ׻֋, և ֙ ָ ߕ ֲֻ ߅ ׾֤ ֯ ֲֻ ֋, ֲ כו֙ ִ ֲֻ , ָ ָ֮ , ֻ , ֙֕ , כו֙ ִ , և ꌙߕ ֮ ֻ ָ ׮ִ ׻֋ ׿ֿ , ֙֕ ֲֻ ԤԮ ™ ׮ִ ׻֋ ꌙ ֺ , ו ָ ֌ , ӕ׮ֵָ ו ָ וû֮ ׻֋ ׻י׿ֵ֮ ֺ , ָ ꌙ ֮ ֺ ꌙ ָ ׾µ Ԥ ֮ , ֿ֟ ָ ֙ ֲֻ ꅠ ֲֻ֟ ׻֋ ֮֯ ִ ־֮֬ , ָ ׾ָ֓

ײֻ ִ֣Ԯ (ִ֯)

ֳ֯ן : כ , ֤ , ֟ ӟ ֛פօ

SHRI N. JOTHI: Sir, coming to the well is also a contribution to the public. (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no. (Interruptions) This is a bigger contribution. (Interruptions) If he participates in the debate, he will be the best...(Interruptions) Shri Santosh Bagrodia. (Followed by SK-2A)

SK-SCH/2.45/2a

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (RAJASTHAN): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir. I also compliment the hon. Member for a very informative speech. And, I also agree with your statement and request him, being my old colleague and good friend and a brother, if he changes the style, probably it will help the House and him also.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: And, the nation also.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Yes, the nation also. ...(Interruptions)..

SHRI N. JOTHI: Is it an invitation to him?

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Sir, while supporting all points which he has mentioned, I would like to draw the attention of the House what actually 'actuary' means, which is mentioned in the Bill itself. "'Actuary' means a person skilled in determining the present effects of future contingent events or in finance modelling and risk analysis in different areas of insurance, or calculating the value of life interests and insurance risks, or designing and pricing of policies, working out the benefits, recommending rates relating to insurance business, annuities, insurance and pension rates on the basis of empirically based tables and includes a statistician engaged in such technology, taxation, employees' benefits and such other risk management and investments and who is a fellow member of the Institute, and the expression 'actuarial science' shall be construed accordingly". Sir, when I was asked to speak on this subject, I was really wondering what the actuary is. I, of course, looked into the Bill; I also saw the dictionary and that is how I came to know about actuaries. To be very honest, I also did not know about it. I was amazed that דכ ִ , ֟ ꅠ ֲ ֟ ֻ דכ ִ ׻ֵ ֵ֟ ֲ ָ כ , ֲ ֟ ֺ דכ ...(־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן: ֵ֤ ֮֯ ׻ֵ ...(־֮֬)

ӟ ֛פ: ֟։, ָ ָ , ֛֛ ָ, , the point is, the significance of actuary is mind boggling. When I saw this, how much work they have to do, how much responsibility they have to do. I fully agree with that because the insurance business was very little immediately after independence or before independence for whatever reasons. During those days, it was absolutely right why the insurance business was nationalised. There were advantages; and because this insurance business was nationalised, a number of services, a number of new industries, in the country were developed with the resources generated by these insurance companies which was going into private hands, now it came into public hands. That is why SAIL could come. Many other large PSUs could come because of the reforms generated by these insurance companies. But, they were all plus points. Naturally, there are a lot of disadvantages because there are always two sides of a coin and the country has to face that situation also. Sir, you have mentioned just now ֮֯ ׻ֵ Honestly, there was a strong feeling that whatever kind of insurance, let me talk about life insurance a little. Those who are actually dead by accident or those who are really covered, their insurance claims were not paid till their successors were also dead. They had to wait and then the poor successors would try to get both the claims. But those who were actually not dead, who were dead only in papers, were getting their claims. This was the most unfortunate part of it. (Contd. by ysr-2b)

-SK/YSR-MCM/2.50/2B

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA (CONTD.): Neither I died nor was I dead on paper. So, I could not claim or my family could not claim anything.

Similarly, Sir, he mentioned about fire insurance. Many fire insurance claims, which were genuine, were not settled. But the fire insurance claims, which were not genuine, were fully settled. Number of issues have come where people actually burnt their stocks because prices went down and the value of goods was much more as per the insurance. They were handled very well. But the claims for genuine fire insurance, which really took place, were not settled for years. I am not talking this for small industries or small business people or small insurance holders. I am talking about big insurance holders. If a poor small insurance holder goes to collect, say, one lakh rupees because of insurance claims, by the time he will actually get that cheque, probably he would have already spent Rs.50,000 on movement and on different expenses which all of us know how things happen.

Similar is the case with car accidents. When I just joined my family business, I was told to look after the car insurance also. I remember that old story. The agent came to me and the first thing he told me, "you change the company." Some kind of competition was there, even if all the companies were Government Companies or PSUs. But the agents were different and their commission system was different. He said, "You just change the insurance company. Give me the business and ֯ ִ כ ־ օ Whether there is a claim or no-claim, if you give me the business ֯ ֻ ֯ כ ֋օ" Fortunately, I never had radio in my car, so I never asked for it. But this was the basic concept that insurance was done with no intention of paying claims. Can the hon. Minister tell us that during the last -- let us not go too far -- ten years, in all these nationalised insurance companies, how many claims have been made against life insurance; how many claims have been made against other accidents; and how many claims have been actually settled? It will be mind-boggling. You will be surprised. What a trickle of cases the claims have made! However, this is becoming now historical. Now, it is the era of globalisation. Foreign investment is allowed. We are in a new economic world; new things are happening. And it is for this reason that to keep pace with other activities, insurance activities also have to change. It is for this reason that I compliment the hon. Minister for bringing this Bill on actuaries. Of course, it has been a little delayed, not because of him but because of circumstances. It has gone to the Committees, probably twice. Then there was change of Governments. For some reason or the other it has been delayed. But, as he says, "Better late than never." So, it has finally come. As the hon. Minister has mentioned in his speech, in the Lok Sabha something has happened, everybody has supported it. Sir, through you, I would like to inform the Lok Sabha that this House has got its own brain.

(Followed by VKK/2C)

-YSR/VKK/2c/2.55

SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL: Sir, I came to Parliament through Rajya Sabha.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: The Members here have their own views. We don't necessarily follow them. It has happened. About two or three years ago, the Electricity Bill was passed in Lok Sabha and the then Government had great difficulty in getting the same Bill passed in this House. In fact, that was passed after four extra amendments. We compliment you. You got it done there. But here, if you want this Bill to be passed, we will definitely support you, please incorporate some of the suggestions which the hon. Member, Shri Ahluwalia, has made and some of the suggestions which I might add. Please consider them.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I thought you are finally welcoming the Bill, but, now, you have come to suggestions.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: I will come to that. Sir, if I close quickly, you will have a problem because this Actuaries Bill probably will not last that long. You want that whatever time has been given, we should talk that much...

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no. There are other Bills.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Otherwise, it will look that we are not capable of talking.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You should help the Chair complete other Legislative Business. On another important Bill, there will be lot of participation.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Okay, Sir, I will give the suggestions very fast if that is so. There is no problem, particularly my Chief Whip is angry and ordering me. I will have to do it very fast, otherwise, next time, he will not let me speak. So, I follow your orders.

The responsibility of an actuary in life and general insurance business is to design and price insurance policies, as I have mentioned, as per the specification or the definition given in this Bill. But, Sir, what has happened? There were four thousand students of actuary sciences. Now, there are only 203 fellows. What kind of a drop out! And this drop out probably at that time was because there was not enough work for them. I am only wondering, with the increased business, what kind of policy the hon. Minister will implement and what kind of institutions he will have so that we can have these actuaries in thousands in the next two or three years. Unless we have them in thousands, the whole process will be delayed. I request the hon. Minister to tell us as to what is his plan of action in respect of these four thousand students who were dropouts. Now, we have only 203. At least, out of these four thousand, next year, let us have one or two thousand students who become fellows.

Sir, after the enactment of Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority Act, 1999, the insurance sector is poised for a rapid growth. There is no doubt about it. But, unless this is supported by actuaries, we will not have new products. Sir, like Cost Accountants, Chartered Accountants, Company Secretaries, this is a natural corollary to IRDA. That is why this Bill was necessary. But does it have the same authority? With the kind of Bill that has come and the kind of restrictions the hon. Minister has put in the Bill, will the Actuarial Society of India or the Institute of Actuaries of India have the same autonomy like the Chartered Accountants, Costs and Works Accountants and Company Secretaries? This Bill is perhaps one of the few Bills which were examined twice by the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committees and both of them have suggested.... (Contd. by MKS/2d)

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