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-KLS-SSS/3B/4.00

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (CONTD.): I have asked for materials such as CDs and all, which we can personally get them shown at the district levels and I would definitely be leaning on the support of all the Members here who can then please use your office and influence in the local areas to familiarise the police on the J. J. Amendment Act and we will be able to give you all, some CDs, some of them, so that we could show them around and familiarise the police. I had also written to the Home Minister much before we brought in the amendments to the Act that there should be, at least, 33 per cent more women in the police recruitment itself. We have a pathetic, I think, three to four per cent or six per cent at best. Even for us to implement the basic IPC sections we do not have enough women. So, as a familiarisation and a feminisation of the police force I have asked for 33 per cent; and I am optimistic that the Home Minister will be able to respond on a positive note. Lot of anxiety has been shown and rightly so, about the status of children who are going to be given into guardianship, foster homes, adoption, how people can use or misuse these children. Through this Act and amendment, we are going to bring in very stringent norms by which people qualify for taking these children home under any of these heads for adoption. So, the built-in safeguards that will be there will go to a large extent to check that. But as you know, human behaviour is very, very elastic so it would be wise for all of us to be warned and to look into seeing what we can do. Now, the condition of the homes, I agree with most of you, there is nothing to write about. They are nightmare centres. I totally appreciate that. But we have been putting checks into these systems; and also I would invite anyone of you to go and look at the homes in your constituencies and please tell me, I will respond whether they are up to the mark or not. At least if the authorities of homes know that people are going to come and check, then, they themselves will improve. They will become self-regulatory; and otherwise, we will take stringent measures and put them in a better position. The State Governments, the UT administrations, they all have to now suitably improve and upgrade the homes as required. This is one our mandatory exercises that we are putting through. Then, we have conducted some of the surveys in these observations homes a few weeks back. There is a complaint that we should not keep juveniles in these homes for more than three years, for a long period. We have tried to see that we minimise the time because, as we all know, it is not very conducive for a child to bathe himself or improve his behaviour in hostile environment. As adults we don't. We fight in Parliament, don't we? So, why do we expect extraordinary obedience from the children? In order to be sensitive to that we have been looking into these homes and how best we can streamline them and we encourage them to have interactions. Sometimes, during the surveys which are carried out, the juveniles are hostile and more often violent, both with the staff of the home as well as with other inmates. So, it may not be advisable to keep them collectively, in the hope, that they interact. We have to see it in a case-to-case study and see what best we can do. Otherwise, these children get into the crime section very often. Ms. Sushilaji had spoken about rural areas. You had asked us a question that 24 hours time limit cannot be adhered to. Now, the juveniles shall be produced before the board within 24 hours, excluding the time of journey. We are not adding the journey time, obviously. But within 24 hours, so that there is no mischief played at the other end as we all know, that it is capable of. A lot of people talked about adoption to foreigners. Now, before we give the children abroad, I don't want to rule out that we should not give our children abroad because India has only placed about 3000 children. All over this country none of us has a big heart enough to adopt a child and give a child a chance to life.

(Contd. by NBR/3C)


-SSS/NBR-SCH/3C/4.05

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (CONTD.): And give the child a chance to life. But, these children are taken abroad. In other countries, they have placed 20,000 of their children in adoptive homes all across the world. Now, if they can do it, I don't see why we cannot do it. So, the idea is to encourage in-house adoption first. And, if they are not placed in in-country adoption, then we place them in inter-country adoption. We do this so that they can also be given a chance. And, it is unfair for us to be prejudiced that anyone from outside who comes to adopt is only coming to adopt to exploit. That is also not fair. Human behaviour remains the same across the world anywhere and, under given circumstance, on an average, they will react in the same way. The awareness is important. How to increase this kind of awareness? We are going to be using the youth to involve in a lot of ways. We are going to launch a national campaign to inform various segments of our society and authorities as to what we are planning to achieve and what we mean in different aspects of Ministerial effort of ours.

Now, with compulsory and free education, vocational training and positive images to be publicised by media, etc., we have been pressurising the media also to take that into consideration. As all of you have appreciated, we have slapped a Rs. 25,000 fine if, by wittingly or unwittingly, they show a child to the public and make a public tamasha of this. Now, we are trying to reduce crime. And, poverty is one of the prime causes. The dysfunctional families are also one of the reasons for crime. We are promoting the Self-Help Groups. The women who have a Self-Help Group will have a lateral integration with these juveniles so that there will be integration between the two and they will be balanced out.

Sir, under the ICDS, Creches are being expanded. I am a little surprised that a very few Members of Parliament have come forward to ask for Creches in their respective constituencies which is a huge developmental measure. We have shown that wherever there is ICDS, children do exceptionally well in their school life and little delinquency is reported on an average.

Then, we have also written to the Ministry of Law to harmonise the definition of child's age in all Acts. ̮ ֟ 18 ֻ , 14 ֻ ױ׮ֿ֮ ָ ָ ֌ ֙ ֛ ׻֋ ֮ ֻ ߓ ֓ , ֮ ֋ ָ ֓ , ֮ ֋֠ So, in all special Acts such as Juvenile Justice Act, Immoral Traffic (Prevention) Act, Child Marriage Act, we have placed the age as 18. 18 ֻ ָ ׻֋ ָ This is in keeping with the international norms. The psychologists, physiologists and anatomists will also tell you that the child's brain, physiological and psychological development is not complete till they reach approximately the age of 18 years. Of course, there are exceptions who show undue maturity before and after. That elasticity we leave for the local judgment. A lot of people have asked, ֮֯ ׸ ֮ פ , ֮ ׸ ׻֋ - ׮ִֵ ֮֟ , ֟ , ָ they are not experts or specialists in this matter. ֕ ֆ ֻ פ ֟ ֤-  ׸ãן ָ ־ָ ָ ָÙ֮, ָ ևߕ פ ֕ unwittingly they may hurt a child. ׻֋ ֮ ׸ߕ ײֻ ֵ֤ And, then, we said that specialised child care people are really the rightful people who should be able to guide the proceedings. ׻֋ ֮ ֮ פ, ו֮֟ ֯ (CONTD. BY VP "3D")

MCM-VP/3D/4-10

ߴ֟ ָ (֟) : And, the competent authorities have been given the due responsibility. ָ ֮֟ ֣׸ߠ should be there to monitor and control the activities of these shishu vihars. ֵ ãן ֮֟ ׿ֿ ֮ ָ ׮־Իև These are registered and recognised by CARA, which is our adoption authority. And for in-country or inter-country adoption there is a monitoring device, through CARA, which we are now trying to activate and make sure that it runs in a much more smoother way.

Now, there are child protection units being set up or taken up in relationship to children in need of care and protection, including maintenance of homes. This monitoring of homes is inbuilt into the system when we have said that this is what is defined under child protection. , ָ֮և- ֯ ֻ֮֟ the facilities provided to juveniles in juvenile and observation homes, ֕ ӛ ֻ - ֟ , ״ֻ֕ ָ ֟ ֮ , ֓ ֣ - ָ ꅠ : ֻ , ֻ ָ ֻ - ꮙ ָ ևؙ, ֙ ӛ ׮֮֙ ָ ֮ ֯ ֮֟ ָ ֯ ֮֟ וִָ ָ ߅ ֻ ָ ֣, ִ ֯ ֲ ֵ֟ ֯ ו֮ ֲָ , ߕ ֯ ָ ֤ ו֋, ֲꌙ וִ ֮֕ן ֟ We should all contribute and work towards this. ָ ׿ֵ֟ ֋ ױ ֯ ֯ ֛, ִ Ù, ׿ֵ , ֮-߮ ֲ , ֯ ֮֟ , ֮ ֮֮ but you will see the results. ֻ ֯ ֻ , ֯ ꅠ ָ ֮ , ָ , ָ - ֣׸ ״ֻ֟ ִ, ֟ ֣ -֯ ׮ֻ֮ ָ և ֟ ֕ ָ כ ֟ It has also been found that ָ ֛ և ״֙ ָ ֓ ׻ִ ֮ ֋ ױ ׻֋ ꮙ և ֟ ֟֓ߟ ֓ they try to put that..(Interruptions)..

Ӥ 껻 : ֯ ֟և ֛ և ֓ ֣ ?

ߴ֟ ָ : ֯ ֛ ׻֋ ֯ ָ ֟։, ֓ ִ ֟ ֟ ֮օ ָ ֯ ֛ ׻֋ ֯ ֟։߅......(־֮֬)

ָ ׻ֲ ֯ ׾֙ a lot of children who are in conflict with law, come at the same time ָ ִ כ ֟ ָ ߱ כ׿ֵֻ וÙ ִ ָ ׾֮և Ù ָ և ߴ -ևԵ , ָ ֮֯ 껵ֻ ֮֕ פ we are definitely taking cognisance of them. ׾µ ֮֯ ֟ ֮֯ ֯ ֋ꅠ ֲ -ָ ß ָ, ׻ß ָ, ֲ ִ ָ ֓ ֋ꅠ Thank you all very much. Sir, I request that the Bill be passed.

 

ߴ֟ ֵ : , ֮֯ ֟ և և ׻ ָ , ֲ֕ ָ ֓ ֳ ֟ ֟ ֮֯ ִָ-4 ևԮ 7 9 Statement of Objects and Reasons ׻ ײֻ , ־֮֬ , ִ ֓ ׻֋ ֤ ֤ ïֻ ֮ ֟ .....

(3E ָ ֿ:)

-VP/GS-PK/3E/4.15

ߴ֟ ֵ (֟) : ָ ֯ ָ - ֵ֟ ?

ߴ֟ ָ : ֳ֯ן , ֕Ի special schools and all should come within the purview of private-public partnership. ִ ֕߆ ָ ָ ֛ ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ֵ : , ֓ ׻֋ , ָ ָ֬ ו ֮ ֻ ָ , ֮ ׿ ϳ׾֟ ֓ ׻֋ ֮ ֮֯ ֟ ?

ߴ֟ ָ : , , , basically we are trying to integrate the children back into the mainstream. ײΕ ֮ ֟ , Ӭ Ϥ ֻ כÙ ֯ , 00 ָ߮ ִ I invite all the Members of Parliament that

֯ ֮ ֟ ֻ כÙ ևꅠ ֯ ָ ֋օ (Interruptions)... Yes, definitely, I would be happy to lead a team of Members of Parliament who are interested, ֵ

ֻ ׸ : ӡ , ֯ ֲ ֻ ֵ?

ߴ֟ ָ : , ֵ

ֻ ׸ : ֯ ֮־֤

߿ ־֟ : , ֯ ֟ ָ, ֛ ֻ և, ֓ ֟ פև , ִ ß־ ָ߲ ָ ֓ , ֓ ך ָ ־֮ ִ Ӆ ך ָ פ ִ , ״֮ פ ֯ ӡֵֻ , ֕ ָָ ֟֓ߟ ֵ?

ߴ֟ ָ : ָ, ׿ֿ , ׻֋ և ֵ , ֵ ֓ , ֕ פ כև և ֮ ֵ ֮ ׿ֿ ֓ ֛ ָ -֯ ֟ , ִ ֓ , ֛ ..(־֮֬)..

߿ ־֟ : , ָ֯ ?

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Yes, it is an organised crime.

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Madam, I have an inquiry that is in page no. 2, section 4. The meaning of 'adoption' is defined here. As for the other part of the Bill, that is section 21 on page 5, the earlier provision and the present provision in the Bill provide guidelines in respect of adoption. May I know from the hon. Minister that adoption is irrespective of all religions?

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Under the amendment of this Act, the Juvenile Justice Act, you will be able to adopt across the country, and across any religion. Earlier, we had only the Hindu Law of Adoption. This is to universalise and streamline the adoption process, and also in keeping with our Constitution that we are a secular nation. We have given this provision so that anybody can now adopt any child.

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Religion will not be the bar.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Certainly not.

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: A person belonging to any religion can adopt a child belonging to any religion.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Absolutely. If your religion permits you, you can adopt.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Madam, suppose I want to adopt a child. Will there be a proper authority so that adoption is not only legalised, there is also no harassment to the adopted child later on. That is number one. Secondly, I understand after having attained the age of 30 years, or, 40 years, you can't adopt a child, say, a new- born child. There are a number of cases where 40 or 50 year-old people are capable of adopting a child. Since they are barred, they use illegal methods. I know a number of cases. So, will you do something about it?

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Yes, of course; you are absolutely right that there was an outer age limit kept for the adoptve parents, believing that, at that time, the longevity of life was shorter for an Indian citizen, and that if something happens to them, then, the child will be left helpless again. So, keeping that in view, as a very good idea, they had done it. But you are absolutely right that, today, with better nutritional levels, more awareness, more money, and people having different systems of life, they are, perfectly, capable of adopting children even at an older age. But we will have to take the consent of this House before I make that amendment. But you are, absolutely, right. I will look into that. (Followed by 3F/PB)

PB/3F/4.20

SHRI MATILAL SARKAR: Sir, I had sought a clarification but the hon. Minister in her intervention did not reply to that. My query was regarding the funds. After this Bill comes into force, there will be so many Juvenile Justice Boards, there will be so many CWCs for all the six hundred-odd districts that we are having. Now the question is, who will bear the burden of the management expenses of these bodies, i.e., juvenile bodies, child welfare committees and allied matters? Who will bear the burden? It would not be possible for the States to bear this burden. I raised that point, but the hon. Minister did not reply.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: I will reply to you.

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Madam, you are aware that there are women prisoners in jail. There is a provision that up to a certain age, the children of the women prisoners are supposed to stay with their mothers in jail. As per my information, the situation is very worse there. Beyond that age, -- perhaps, it is up to the age of six years that these children can stay with their mothers -- can the Minister say what will be the fate of those children whose mothers are in prison, in jail? That is my query.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: When the child is born and is biologically dependent on the mother for breast-feeding, etc., we encourage that the mother keeps the child with her. By the age of six, the children are very much within their formative years, and it is important that they get out of the jail atmosphere. The mothers may be serving the sentence, but it is important that the children learn to have a holistic integration into the normal society life because they should not grow up 'sentenced to jail' for no crime of theirs. So, this is basically giving them an opportunity to get out of the jail atmosphere till the mother serves her sentence and go to school and take the other benefits which the Government extends.

MS. MABEL REBELLO: Sir, the mechanism which various agencies adopt for giving child in adoption to the parents is quite difficult, and the people who adopt the children do not know this mechanism. I would request the Minister for two things. One is to simply this mechanism, the legal formalities and all that, and, secondly, after adoption, there should be continuous follow up, at least, for two to three years because the agency should have some sort of liaison with the adoptive parents of the children and go on interacting with them so that the child is properly placed in that home. Otherwise, Sir, there can be problems, both for the child and for the parents. I would request the hon. Minister to take this into consideration.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Thank you, Mabelji for making this suggestion. But the fact is that the Juvenile Justice Act's amendment on adoption has been brought about precisely for that reason to be able to simplify it and to make it a much more universal and acceptable form of adoption that we are now offering today. I am very happy to share with you all that the minute I became the Minister, there have been at least fourteen parents who had come and adopted children who I know, and the happiest story about that is, all of them wanted only a girl child. They wanted a daughter in adoption. So, I think, for that one reason, at least, we should be facilitating adoption, and I also want to make an offer that if any one of you wants to adopt me, I am willing. Please take.

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: I am sure, nobody wants to adopt a liability. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: See, this is what they say about the girl child. If I were a boy, he wouldn't have said that.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): Daughters give more love to their parents.

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Madam, I would like to inform you, I am an adoptive father. I have adopted a girl child.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: How nice! Congratulations and may you have many years of happiness, many years. ...(Interruptions)...


THE VICE-CHARIMAN: The question is :

That the Bill to amend the Juvenile Justice (Care and Protection of

Children) Act, 2000, as passed by Lok Sabha, be taken into

consideration.

The motion was adopted.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

Clauses 2 to 26 were added to the Bill.

Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the Title were added to the Bill.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: Sir, I move:

That the Bill be passed.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

(Ends)

(Followed by 3g/SKC)

3g/4.25/skc-mp

.. ׻ֵ: , ֈ adjourn ׸ ...(interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIEN): The House stands adjourned to meet on the morning of 10th August 2006 at 11.00 a.m.

*****

The House then adjourned at twenty-seven minutes

past four of the clock till eleven of the clock

on Thursday, the 10th of August, 2006.

 

 

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