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-YSR/VKK-GS/2A/1.00

SHRI VAYALAR RAVI (CONTD.): Sir, you have every right to stop this kind of irrelevant repetition. (Interruptions)

ߴ֟ ֵ : ֳ֯ן , ֤ߵ ֵ ֕ ӡ ֤õ - ...(־֮֬)... ֳ֯ן , Ͽ ָ ...(־֮֬)....

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ֮ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)...

ߴ֟ ֵ : ֳ֯ן , ֤ߵ ֵ ֕ ӡ ֤õ ֟ ...(־֮֬).... ָ, ߛ ֱ פ וֿ֮ ֮ ׻֋ ֛ ֌־ ...(־֮֬)....

0 ֮ : ֳ֯ן , Ͽ ָ , ֮ ...(־֮֬).... ֟ ? ...(־֮֬).... ֲ ָ ֵ, ֲ ָ , ...(־֮֬)....

ֳ֯ן : ֮ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)....

0 ֮ : ֳ֯ן , ӟ ֵ ...(־֮֬).... Ͽ ָ և ֟ ...(־֮֬)....

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : י ...(־֮֬)....

0 ֮ : Ͽ ָ ֮ ...(־֮֬).... ? ָ ֮ ָ ֮֯ Ͽ , ָ ...(־֮֬).... ָ ...(־֮֬).... י ָ ָ , ֵ ָ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)....

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, I am attempting to answer all the queries. One of the queries raised is as to what did you do since you came in possession of this piece of information. I will, but, I can only answer as the hon. Members would appreciate as I know how to answer. Therefore, you please exercise some patience in this regard. I have to go in the sequence. About the third week of September is roughly the origin of this communication. Now, Sir, what was happening in the third week?

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: In which year?

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: In 1995, roughly in the third week of September, 1995. In December, the nuclear test that was being planned by India became common knowledge. That is also a fact because in December, 1995, the New York Times, in fact, published a story. Those of you who pursue such matters and study would know that satellite surveillance by the United States of America had established that boreholes were being dug in the Pokhran region. That was an additional factor to bring pressure. Again, Sir, what was the context and relevance was the imminence of CTBT. We had reached the autumn of 1995. It's a principal policy objective of the democratic Government then in the United States of America to 'somehow, anyhow'.... That is why, I said that the surveillance on India was very intrusive. Thereafter, Sir, in 1997, a series of things happened. Sir, in 1996, we were temporarily in office for about 13 days or so. (Interruptions) In 1997, Sir, threats, as I have brought out, were brought out in an expose in a newspaper actually on the 20th September, 1997 and it headlined the expose with the heading: US Plots Gujral-Sharif Show. What was the attempt then by the United States of America, Sir? The United States of America wished to bring pressure on the then Prime Minister because the then Prime Minister was visiting the United States of America and perhaps saw the UN General Assembly. And he was, I think, then also the Minister of External Affairs to somehow have a kind of an Asian or South-Asian Camp David between the then President Bill Clinton, and to control and to bring a curb. (Interruptions) Thereafter, Sir, this very document, this very fact that I am now talking of, this very fact about Mr. Graham and the communication that Mr. Graham had with the Ambassador Harry Barnes was reached to the then Prime Minister in time so as to caution him what the United States of America was all about. In 1998, Sir, when we were in office, our principal purpose then -- because we came to office in March '98 -- was to somehow thwart American surveillance, American intrusive entry into our systems and to somehow prevent the United States, anyhow prevent the United States, from coming to know, and Vajpayee Government did it exceptionally well.

(Contd. by RSS/2b)

RSS/SC/2B/1.05

־֮ ָ ֻ : ֮ Ͽ ..(־֮֬)..

ֿ־ӟ ֮ : ֯ ׮׻֋ ֺ ? ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ׮׻֋..(־֮֬)..

־֮ ָ ֻ : ֻ ֟-֟ ֻ ֋..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ ֈ ֤õ ָ ֬ ֻ֟ ? ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: In 1974, the then Prime Minister, Late Shrimati Indira Gandhi, achieved exactly the same thing. She kept it on the United States of America and she was able to achieve it...(Interruptions)... President Venkataraman, in his memoirs and in a public speech has clearly stated that a decision was taken to have yet another test by Late Shrimati Indira Gandhi in the eighties when she was returned to office. A bore hole was dug, and, as Defence Minister, Mr. Venkataraman says: I actually went down that bore hole, but...(Interruptions)... I am citing all these, Sir...(Interruptions)...

SHRI ANAND SHARMA: He should give the name...(Interruptions)...

ӟ ֛פ : ָ ׮ֵ ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ֻ , ֟ ..(־֮֬)..

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Why was it concealed all these years? ...(Interruptions)... Why was this information not shared?

ֳ֯ן : ֮֮ߵ ׾֯ ׮־ ϴ ׾ֵ ֋ ֋ , ï™ ׸..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ׾ֵ ..(־֮֬).. ִֵ ߋֆ ָ֮ ׌ֵָ Ù ָ ߅..(־֮֬)..ֲ ׾ֵ ..(־֮֬)..

־֮ ָ ֻ : ֮֯ 6 ֻ ? ..(־֮֬).. ֯ ֕ ..(־֮֬)..

0 ִ ӛָ : ֳ֯ן , ־ֻ ָ ? ־ֲ ..(־֮֬)..

־֮ ָ ֻ : ֻ ֤ ֯ ..(־֮֬).. ֮֯ 6 ֻ ? ..(־֮֬).. ֟֋, ֱևԛ ? ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ֟֋..(־֮֬).. Have patience. ֟ ..(־֮֬).. ך..(־֮֬)..

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: I respect your direction. ...(Interruptions)...There are broadly three issues that were raised... (Interruptions)... I have shared the facts. I am on the aspect of what the NDA Government did, which is relevant...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Who is that person who said it as a civil servant? He may be in the United States.. (Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ֤ ևә ֋ , ָ ..(־֮֬)..

־ӟ : ..(־֮֬).. , ָ ..(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : ֯ ִ ..(־֮֬)..

֮֮ߵ ֤õ : ָ..(־֮֬).. ֮ ָ Ӆ..(־֮֬)..

־ӟ : ָ , ֟ ׸ , ָ י..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ׾ֵ , ..(־֮֬)..

ӟ ֛פ : ָ և ..(־֮֬).. (followed by 2c)

ASC-MKS/1.10/2C

ֳ֯ן : ֤ ֲ , ֓ , - Ͽ , ֯ Ͽ ָ֬ ָ ֯ ֓ ָ פ ֵ ִ֟ ֲ ׻, ׻, ֋ ..(־֮֬).. ֟ ו֋ ..(־֮֬).. ֟ ו֋ ..(־֮֬).. ׻֋ Ͽ ֋ ֋ , Ͽ ָ ...(־֮֬)..

SHRI SHAHID SIDDIQUI: Sir, it is very relevant. ...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ, ק ֮ ϳ׾֟ , ־ֻ ..(־֮֬) י ל י ׻ ...(־֮֬).. ֮ ...(־֮֬).. ..(־֮֬)..

SHRI VIKRAM VERMA: Sir, he asked a specific question. ...(Interruptions)...

֓ : Ӯ י ֜ ֜ ..(־֮֬)..

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Why have they kept us in the dark?

...(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ֵ : ־ֻ ֮ ֛߅...(־֮֬). ֵ֤ ֯ ֻ ִ ֋օ ......(־֮֬)..

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, I have found.....(Interruptions)...

. ֮ : ӿ ָ ߻ ߠ , ָ ϳ־ ֛օ ָ ֟ ֕- ..(־֮֬) ...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, the issue was first raised......(Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ֵ : ׸ ־ ֤Աֿ..(־֮֬)..

SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, why was it hidden? ...(Interruptions)... They wanted to protect America. ...(Interruptions)...

. ִ ӛָ : 11 ֮ Ӥ ...(־֮֬).. ִ ֟ , ֕ ֟և ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ Ӥ ָ : ָ, ־ֲ פ־֋ ...(־֮֬).. Sir, why was the information hidden? Let him answer that first. ...(Interruptions)...

ֳ֯ן : ֮֮ߵ ֤õ, ...(־֮֬).. ״֮֙ ..(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ, ִ ׻ , י ...(־֮֬)..

ֳ֯ן : י ״ֻ ...(־֮֬)..

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ָ, ֯ ק ֻ י ל

ֳ֯ן : ֜ ...(־֮֬).. י ֜ , כ ....(־֮֬)...

"The issue of a mole in the PMO, when late Shri Narasimha Raoji was the Prime Minister of India, has acquired utmost significance in the light of revelations made by Shri Jaswant Singh in his book

'A Call to Honour'. India Today, one of the most prominent national weeklies, in its latest issue, has published a letter by a senior US diplomat to a US senator. This letter raises many questions about India's nuclear security. ...(Interruptions)... This letter raises many questions about India's nuclear security and planning. It also raises very significant questions about the India-US nuclear deal and its intents." ...(Interruptions)...

 

-- ׮֋....(־֮֬).. ׮֋

"Sir, answers to these questions ...(Interruptions)... Answers to these questions are of vital importance to India's security, sovereignty and nuclear planning." ...(Interruptions)...

 

(Contd. by TMV/2D)

-MKS-TMV-NB/2D/1.15

MR. CHAIRMAN (CONTD.):

"I therefore request you to suspend the Question Hour so that the nation may get answers to these questions by the Prime Minister and the Govt. of India. Sir, both the Leader of Opposition, Shri Jaswant Singhji, and Prime Minister, Shri Manmohan Singhji, belong to Rajya Sabha. It is, therefore, the duty of this House to ask them to answer the questions being asked by the whole nation. We would like to know from the PM who the mole was. Are there other officers who are influencing India's nuclear policies? What are the implications of this revelation on the Indo-US nuclear deal? What action is being planned on the revelations made?

We request you to direct the Prime Minister to make a statement on this issue before any other matter may be taken up in the House."

... (Interruptions)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : Ϭִ֮ӡ ־ֲ .... (־֮֬)

. ֮ : ָ Ϭִ֮ӡ , .... (־֮֬)

ֳ֯ן : ָ ֯ .... (־֮֬)

ק : ... ־ֻ , ֮ ־ֻ .... (־֮֬) شری شاہر صدیقی : یہ بی۔جے۔پی۔ کا سوال تھوڑے ہی ہے، یہ پورے نیشن کا سوال ہے۔ I asked a question... (Interruptions)... Nobody can question my credibility. (Interruptions)....

ֳ֯ן : ָ ִֵָ .... (־֮֬)

"I would like to raise a very important issue of the Leader of the Opposition, Shri Jaswant Singh, who stated in his Press Conference and also in the electronic media that during the period when Shri Narasimha Rao was the Prime Minister, he came to know that there was a mole in the Prime Minister's Office and that an officer working in high position in the PMO has leaked nuclear secrets to the United States of America. He further stated that he would like to give the information directly to the hon. Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, while meeting him.

This statement of Shri Jaswant Singh has created a public debate in the whole country that a responsible political leader of BJP, who occupied several positions in the Government, when he came to know of the Indian nuclear secrets being leaked by an important officer working in the PMO during Shri Narasimha Raoji's Prime Ministership, it was his duty to either bring it to the notice of the then Prime Minister or raise the issue in the public with evidence. He should have taken proper action at that time. Further, waiting for more than ten years, he is revealing that vital and important information to the media. Therefore, I would like to raise this issue in the Rajya Sabha."

...(Interruptions)...

֮ ׻֋ ֜ ֋ , ֮ ֻ ֮ ֻ, ֟ ָ֮ ֋ ָ ֓ ־ֿ ָ ֓ ־ֿ , ָ ֓ , ֤ ִ֟ ו֮֟ ֻ ï™ , ï™ ֋ .... (־֮֬)

. ֮ : ֳ֯ן , י ָ֬ ָ ֮֮ߵ Ϭִ֮ӡ ׬ָ ״ֻ? .... (־֮֬)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Are you not satisfied with his ruling? (Interruptions)... Are you not satisfied with his ruling? (Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, there is no disputing the parameters within which hon. Shahid Siddqui and Thiru Narayanasamy have raised the queries that they have. I have endeavoured, Sir, one of the three queries which is repeatedly being asked, "What did you do with it, when this information came to you?". (Interruptions)....

ӟ ֛פ : mole .... (־֮֬) mole .... (־֮֬)

SHRI VAYALAR RAVI: Sir, I am on a point of order. (Interruptions)... I am on a point of order. (Interruptions)... Under what rule is he raising that? (Interruptions)... Is it Zero Hour mention? (Interruptions)... There is only one issue. (Interruptions)... You can't raise many issues. (Interruptions)... No notice can be on more than one issue. (Interruptions)... Even if it is Zero Hour, you can raise only one issue. (Interruptions)... No other issues can be raised. (Interruptions)... How can he raise two or three issues? (Interruptions)... The rule is so clear that you can't raise more than one issue. (Interruptions)... You look at the rules. (Interruptions).... You can raise only one issue. (Interruptions)...

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ֳ֯ן , ևә ָֻ ׾ ֟ admissibility Chair כև ָ י admit ֮ ֤, admissibility ־ֻ ֵ օ

ֳ֯ן : כ, ֮ ו֋ .... (־֮֬)

ߴ֟ ִ þָ֕ : ֜, ֜ ... (־֮֬) The Chair has to decide the admissibility. .....(Interruptions).. Continued by 2E/RG

AKG-RG/2E/1.20

SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ (contd.) : He has already accepted his notice in this form. He has read it out to you...(Interruptions) Now there cannot be such questions. Please sit down...(Interruptions)

֓ : ֺ , ֤ ֟ ... (־֮֬) ... ֲ֤ß ֕ ... (־֮֬) ...

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: We had asked the Leader of the Opposition to speak. What is this? (Interruptions)

֣֮֕ : ֳ֯ן , ӟ Ӿֿ߻ ָ ָ ֓ ... (־֮֬) ... ֳ֯ן , ֮֯ ... (־֮֬) ... ߛ ߿֮ ֮ ן ... (־֮֬) ... ֳ֯ן , ... (־֮֬) ... ֕ ֳ ֲ ֕ , Ϭ֮ ӡ , ֮ ֤õ ׮ֵס֟ ׿ֿ ֲֻ֟ ָ ָ ֓ ֳ֯ן ... (־֮֬) ...

ֳ֯ן : ֮֮ߵ ֤õ, ״֮֙ և ... (־֮֬) ... ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ... (־֮֬) ... ׮֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... ֋, ָ ә ֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ׮֋ ... (־֮֬) ...

֣֮֕ : , Ϭ֮ ӡ ֯ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֳ֯ן : ֯ և ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ -- ו֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ ך ... (־֮֬) ... ֛ ״ֻ ... (־֮֬) ... ָ ֮ ָ ֮ ... (־֮֬) ... ֟ ו֋ ... (־֮֬) ... ֯ כ ָ ֯ כ ׸ִ ׮, ֯ ׸Ù ֮֮ߵ ֤õ, ׾ָ י ָ ֟ և ... (־֮֬) ... ֟ פ, י ֟ և , ֻ--ֻ ֟ ... (־֮֬) ...

. ֵ֛ : ָ, ָ ׬ָ ... (־֮֬) ... This is our right ...(Interruptions). Who are they to question it? ָָ ... (־֮֬) ... , ֵ ָָ ... (־֮֬) ...

ֳ֯ן : ׬ָ ֟ ִ֟ ֯ ׬ָ , ... (־֮֬) ... ו֋, ׬ָ ׮ִֵ Ѭ ֮ ׮ִֵ Ѭ ׮ִֵ ָ֬ ָ ־ã ... (־֮֬) ... ֳ , , ֕ ֳ ֟ ... (־֮֬) ... ֤ ֻ--ֻ ֟ ֋

֣֮֕ : ߴ֮, ֯ ־ã þ֟ ֮ Ϭ֮ ӡ ֲ ֕ ֮ ֤õ ׮ֵס֟ ... (־֮֬) ... ֮ ֯ ֯ ־ã ֮֮ ָ ... (־֮֬) ... ֤õ ֯ ֕֟ ײ֮ ... (־֮֬) ...

. ֮ : ֳ֯ן , י ֯ Ͽ ֋ ֋ ֯ Ͽ ִ ָ ֤ , ן֯ ָ ֵ , ָ ק י , ֻ ֮ ֟ ־ֿ , ֿ֟ י ָ , ָ ֮֮ߵ Ϭִ֮ӡ , ָ ֟֋х ׾ֵ ִ߸ ֟ ן֯ ֟ ֮ ָ ... (־֮֬) ... (2 ָ ֿ:)

TDB-HMS/2F/1.25

0 ֮ (֟) : ן֯ ֟ ן ֣ ...(־֮֬)... , , ִ ָ ָ ....(־֮֬)... ֤, ֯ ־ã , , ָ ֮ ֟

SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, let the Leader of the Opposition reply. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Mr. Chairman, Sir, we will certainly abide by your direction. How can we not abide by your direction? But, it is a bit disappointing when the hon. Minister of State conducts the proceedings of their own interventions in the fashion that they do. That is their choice, Sir. I am attempting to the best of my ability to answer, and I was answering as to what we did when the information came into our possession. ...(Interruptions)... The information...(Interruptions)...

0 ֵ֛ : ֻ֮ ꌵ׸ ָ one-and-a-half hour , one-and-a-half day כ ...(־֮֬)...

ֳ֯ן : ֮ ו֋ ...(־֮֬)...

׾ ִ : ֟ ? ...(־֮֬)...

׾ֵ֮ יָ : ֵօ ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI PENUMALLI MADHU: What about our right? We all are Members of this House. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Let me very clearly...(Interruptions)...

SHRI PENUMALLI MADHU: We have our own rights. We have been listening to him...(Interruptions)... What is this, Sir? ...(Interruptions)... We have been listening to the Leader of the Opposition for the last one-and-a-half hours, but he has not completed his reply. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, we assessed...(Interruptions)...

׾ ִ : ֯ כ , ߿֮ ...(־֮֬)

SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: Sir, will you yield for a minute? ...(Interruptions)... Sir, the Leader of the Opposition has yielded for me for a minute. I just want to make an appeal. ...(Interruptions)... I just want to make an appeal, Sir. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, three issues involved. These are very serious matters to be discussed. I hope, we will have another occasion to discuss them. But, here, the issues involved are just three.

׾ ִ : כ ׸, ֺ ׻֋ ֮ ...(־֮֬)...

SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: He is willing to listen to me, why are you stopping me from speaking? ...(Interruptions)... Your leader is willing to listen what I have to say, why are you stopping me? ...(Interruptions)... I just want to say this, Sir. The first question is, who the mole is. ...(Interruptions)...

׾ ִ : ֯ כ , ߿֮ ...(־֮֬)

SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: Number two; for the last 11 years, you started saying...(Interruptions)... Please tell us what you did in the last seven years. ...(Interruptions)... Number three: on the basis of that, please clear our apprehension. You did not make all this public in these 11 years because when you were in the Government, you did not want to offend the United States of America? ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: I want to make it clear. ...(Interruptions)...

0 ִ ӛָ : ָ, ֕ ־ֻ ־ֲ , ֯ ־ֻ ־ֲ ? ֕ ֮֮ ? ...(־֮֬)...ו 11 ֻ ־֮ ֮ ֣ ִ ֮֮ ...(־֮֬)...

֓ : ִ ֟ֆ

SHRI AMAR SINGH: Sir, I associate myself with what Shri Sitaram Yechury has said. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Sir, I raised the issue first. I raised only one point. ...(Interruptions)... I wanted to know from the Leader of the Opposition who was that mole, who was that spy who leaked the information to the United States of America. ...(Interruptions)... The Prime Minister is here, and you kindly tell the name. ...(Interruptions)... I agree with...(Interruptions)... It is not at all relevant. ...(Interruptions)...

0 ִ ӛָ : ָ, ӟָ֕ ֵ , ֟ ו֋ ..(־֮֬)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, I am to remain within the parameters of the two of these notices. They required detail of the nuclear matter; they required the name. ...(Interruptions)...

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Mole, mole. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: I don't need any prompting, Sir, ...(Interruptions)... I don't need any prompting. (Contd. by 2g/kgg)

kgg/2g/1.30

SHRI JASWANT SINGH (contd.): I am well aware of what I am doing. In fact, the manner in which, sometimes, the Treasury Benches are conducting themselves, as if this is not a House, but...(Interruptions)

SHRI SANTOSH BAGRODIA: Only Treasury Benches are conducting!? No, this is not fair. This is not correct. Why don't you look at your own faults? (Interruptions)

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: This House is not an interrogatory chamber. This House is not an interrogatory chamber. This is a chamber for discussion. We are discussing a serious subject and I am doing the best that I can to answer all these questions. What you said is...(Interruptions) It is a very sad demonstration, Sir, of the ruling arraignment, impatient and intolerance, both. I wish to submit, Sir, that...(Interruptions)

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: We would like to know whether there is any mole....(Interruptions) Tell us whether you are going to name the mole. Where is the mole? (Interruptions)

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Sir, in 1997, the matter became public again, and the all aspects of it became public. The efforts of the United States were thwarted. The efforts made by the United States, as in 1995, Sir, because information had been leaked from the then Prime Minister's Office, the plans to hold a nuclear test was leaked. When it came to our possession...

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: By whom? (Interruptions)

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Please, if you sit down... (Interruptions) If you were to sit down... (Interruptions) Sir, in 1998, the principal challenge before India, before the Government was to somehow... (Interruptions)

Sir, they were asking me what we did with it. In 1998, we had to ensure that before anything else is done, we conduct the tests; and we conducted the tests within two months of coming into office without the ....(Interruptions) That was the objective. The principal task ....(Interruptions) Now, I cannot yield, Sir. (Interruptions) Sir, they keep asking me, so many times, just now in recent few minutes, now you keep telling me...(Interruptions)

SHRI ANAND SHARMA: We want an answer. Who was that in the then Prime Minister's Office? Mr. Chairman, Sir, the House has the right to know it. You have to answer. Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is not an answer. (Interruptions)

(Contd. by kls/2h)

2H/klg-kls/1.35

ֳ֯ן : ֤ ֵԾ 2.00 ֕ ׻֋ ã֟ ֟

...

The House then adjourned for lunch

at thirty-five minutes past one of the clock.

 

...

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