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MKS/HMS/4.00/3N

ֵָ߮ ִ (֟) : ֟ ֟ , "" ֟ ׮־ד֟ ן׮׬ ֨ ֤õ , ֤֮֟ ׌ Ϥ֮ ֮ ׸ߴ֮ ֵ ׾ָ֓ ִד֟ ן׮׬֟ ״ֻ , ֮-ן׮׬ ׮־ԓ֮ ׬ָ և ד֟ ֮ ָ , ׮־ԓ֮ ָ ׻֋ ־ ד֟ ֟օ

ֳ֬ , ״ֻ ׮־ ִ ֻ ֲֵֻ, ד֟ ן , ָ ֲ, ֛ؔ וֻ - ָ imbalance ֮֟ ӟ ֛օ ָ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ׾ָ֓

֮ ׮־ օ , ֯ ִֵ פ, ׻֋ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (WEST BENGAL): Sir, I rise to take part in the discussion on the Resolution moved by the hon. Member, Shri V. Narayanasamy. While I take part in the discussion, I would like to say that I am not fully agreeing with the Resolution which is already placed before the august House, but I must say that there are some valid points in the Resolution which is moved by my learned friend.

Sir, you know that the Delimitation Act was passed by the Lower House and the Upper House, and, already, the law has been enacted. The Delimitation Commission, according to the Act, has already done the delimitation work in some States, including in my State of West Bengal. Firstly, when the Bill was introduced in the Lower House, the population basis was 1991. After that, it was amended. It was decided by both the Houses that so far as the delimitation was concerned, the population basis would be 2001; after that, the Delimitation Commission would start their work. I have seen the notification from the Delimitation Commission that the delimitation exercise in West Bengal, particularly, which I am very much concerned about, is already over. It is already notified in the different newspapers and in the Government Gazette also. But I firmly believe that there is, today, some anomaly in the complete work which they have done. When we have discussed, in the House, regarding the anomalies of the geographical situation of a constituency and the voters or the population of a constituency, there are two or three important factors so far as the population is concerned. We have seen that in a particular constituency, there are only two or three lakh voters but in other constituencies, there are 13 or 15 lakh voters. Obviously, it is an important anomaly. This is one of the first anomalies which we have seen at the time of the discussion, held earlier. We have raised, for example, two constituencies which are very much known to us, which are situated in Delhi, Chandni Chowk and Outer Delhi. The difference between these constituencies is big. So, it is very much necessary to delimit the constituencies in our country. The last delimitation exercise has taken place four years ago. It is the right time to delimit our constituencies. (Contd. by 3O)

-MKS-TMV-PSV/3O/4.05

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (CONTD.): But when we discussed the matter earlier, we had discussed the matter in a way that a unique type of delimitation would happen this time. It would be different from the earlier ones. The constituencies or the seats--so far as the Assembly is concerned, it will be State-wise and so far as the Parliament is concerned, it will be nation-wise--will not exceed the existing number, but realignment will take place. This is the unique feature of delimitation this time, which has already taken place in two or three States. In this regard, I would like to say that geography is one of the main points. My colleague has mentioned that in many places geography was not maintained. This is a good point. Suppose there is a river or there is a hilly area. The people have to cross the river to go to other places to cast their vote and attend to their constituency works. I think, this is not considered properly by the Delimitation Commission. Why is it not done? From my practical knowledge I would say that the Delimitation Commission, while doing it, does not consult the district Collector also. This point was raised repeatedly at the meetings of the Delimitation Commission. On behalf of our party, the Communist Party of India (Marxist), we have written several letters to the Chairman of the Delimitation Commission. As regards my concern, I would like to say that there is a lot of increase in the development of science and technology. Sitting right here we must be able to know about the composition, geography, population and ethnicity of a remote village of our country. But I feel that it is not enough. I feel that the local people and the political parties should be consulted while delimiting or taking a final decision because ours is a big nation with diversity. We must consider this point squarely.

Sir, another point which I would like to say is that so far as the system is concerned, after the completion of the official work, there is a system called "public hearing by the Delimitation Commission". There is a system that if anyone appeals before the Delimitation Commission in writing, the Delimitation Commission will hear their arguments and settle the disputes. We have seen a newspaper report a few days ago in West Bengal. I would like to cite some examples before the august House. They organised public hearing. They organised public hearing at three places to hear the common people. A public notice was issued in the Press and they had also made an announcement asking the people to appear before the Commission and make their submissions. In West Bengal, no public hearing actually takes place. I was present myself at a public hearing. The hon. Chairman of the Delimitation Commission, within less than a minute, declared as the hearing was completed and the meeting was postponed. I firmly believe that the procedure or the system under the delimitation provisions should be reviewed. I would request the hon. Minister to take note of this point.

There is another point, which is already raised here. I would also like to raise that there is some disparity. The issue of some disparity between villages and towns, hilly areas and non-hilly areas, North-Eastern States and mainstream States will come up.

(Contd. by 3P/VK)

VK-KLG/3P/4.10

SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (CONTD): I would like to cite here one example. Everybody knows about Kolkata, the Capital of West Bengal. Now Kolkata comprises 21 Assembly seats. After this delimitation, it will be left with only 12 seats. So, 9 seats will be reduced. It will become very difficult to mange the entire population of the Kolkata city. This disparity is going to come here. I do not know what will happen tomorrow or day-after-tomorrow, but this type of disparity will certainly be there. That is number one. Secondly, I came to know from a notification of the Delimitation Commission that so far as the administration is concerned, they will try their best not to divide the Constituency into different administrative set ups. At least, our desire is that there should be Parliamentary Constituency within two sub-divisions. I know that there is a Parliamentary Constituency in our country which belongs to five districts. At present, I am saying that they have toppled the entire administrative set up, district set up and one Parliamentary Constituency belongs, maybe, to two districts, but belongs to 3-4 sub-divisional set ups. It should be made squarely. I propose this before the august House. I would like to request the hon. Minister, who is sitting here, to take note of it and discuss it with the Delimitation Commission.

One point is about Tribal and non-Tribal areas. In West Bengal, one Tribal or Scheduled Caste seat was decreased. It is having a big impact on the downtrodden and backward people. We should take care of it. I am not going into the details as to why it has been done. But we should take care of it.

My last point is about Associate Members. I had an opportunity to be an Associate Member of the Delimitation Commission in West Bengal. What is the role of the Associate Members? They are just spectators. They will only be giving papers. They will only be giving some suggestions. It has not yet been decided as to what is the role of the Associate Members in the Delimitation Commission meeting. I am not agreeing with this opinion that the Associate Member is only related to his own constituency. Associate Members relate to the whole State. They are very much responsible. I firmly agree with this Resolution that the Associate Member should be a voter in the Delimitation Commission meeting. With these words, I conclude. (Ends)

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ (™ߵ ֮֕֬ , פ) : ֳ֬ , ִֵָ ֮ օ ִֵ , ֲ֕ ֮ ִ֟ ә ֤ ֛ ֯ ߕָ , ֟ , ֟ ָָ ֺ ֮, ֟ , ״ֵ ָ , ևә , ֲ , ִ ևә ֮ ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ֋  ׻֋ , ׻״֮֙ , Ùߙ פ ָ ֮֯ , օ פ , ֮ ָ߾ָ Ӥ פ , ӓ ֳ ׻֋ ߙ , ֟ և ֳ 50 ߙ ׻֙ ֻ , 70 괲ֻ ׻״֮֙ ֺ 3 / ָ ...

AKA-RG/3Q/4:15

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ (֟) : Ӥ ٻִֵ ָ 3.5 ֟ , ֲ ֈ פ ֤ 32 ֟ ָ 4 ֻ ָ , 21 ֻ ָ , Ù פ 20 ֻ ָ , ֤ ٻִֵ ָ ߓ 5 ֻ ָ ֺ כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֵ֮ ֵ, וִ ָ ָ ֋  , ֋  ? ֱ ֮ ֟ ׯ ֋? , ֛ ߲ ֕ ֮ ֵ֠ ֮֟ ֮ Ù ָ , 20-20, 25-25, 30-30 ֻ פ ֮֕ן Ù , ֵ ֱ ֵ ֮ ֋ ָ , ֕ ֟ ֮ ֮, ו֮ ֟ ײֻ ָ֮ ו Ӥ ֋ ָ ֮ ևؙ ֵ , ؙ Ӥ ָ֮ ֻ , ָ , ו֮ ֕ , ֮֮ ֮, ֮֮ ֮օ ֺ , ֵ ֯ , ֵ ֮֮ ׻֋ ֬ ֟ ָ ܟ ָ֕ ϕ֟ӡ ? ϕ֟ӡ ֟ , ֮ ׻֋ Ù ߙ ָ ֤ ָ ֲ ָ ֮֟ , ևӤ ֮֟ , ־ ָ ֤ ֵ ִ ֮ ߅ ֮֮ , Ӥ ֺ ֋  , ׌ ׸ϕי כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֣ , ܟֵָ Ӥ ֮ ֵ ִ ֲ߻ ֵ , ֻ MPs ֣, MLAs ֣, ֋ ָ , ֟ ״ֻ ֮ ֛ ֕ ֲ ؙ ֟ ֟ ֯ ֕ ֋ , ֻ ָ ֻ , ֱ ֮ ֟ ֋ ִ֮ ֻ ִ , ֻ ݕ괯ֻ ָ ֛ ߲ ֕ , ָ פ , ִ ָ , ָ Ù פ ֟ , Ù פ ٻִֵ Ù ֮֮ ֻ , 16 8 ָ , 8 ָ , ָ 2 Ù ״ֻ֮ ָ ״ֻ֮ ֕֋ 16 10 ״ֻ֮ ֤ 6 4 ״ֻ , ״ֻ֟, , 10 ֻ ߓ ֮ , ׮ִ֕߮ ֻ Ù פ ״ֻ פ, ֲ ֻ Ù פ ӲӬ , ׮ִ֕߮ Ù פ ӲӬ ֤ ןִָ , ָ Ù ״ֻև և , ӲӬ ֤ ӟ ײ֕־֮ ״ֻ פօ ӟ ײ֕־֮! ָ Ùߕ , ִ օ ֱ ׻֋ , ֛ ߲ ׸ ָ, כ և ܟֵָ ׻ֵ ֯ , ֮֮ ׻֋ ָ ֮ ֻ , ֋ ֻ , ֮ ֵ ֵ ״ֻ ֮ ו֋ ָ ָ ֙ ֤ ִ ״ֻ , ֋  ֟ , ֮ , ꌿ֮ ߿֮ ֮֮ ׻֋ ָ , כ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ 3  , ֮֮ ׻֋ ֬ Ӆ ֯ ָ ָ ֻ ֟ , ֺ ֮녠 ܟֵָ ֵ , ִֵָ ֟ , ֮ ֲ ֣ ֿ ..(־֮֬).. ִֵָ , ֯ ׯ ֟ , ֲ ֯ ֣ , ә ֤ ׯ ֻ ֯օ ֮֯ ײֻ ֟ , ײֻ , ֛ ߲ ֛ ߱ ֲ , ׻ ָ Ù ָ ֱ ٻִֵ , ו֮ ֟ , ߱ Ù ֻ֟ ֤ ֋

("3r/sch' ָ ָ)

SCH/4.20/3R

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ (֟) : ׸׬ , ֤ ևԅ Ùߙ ֤ ֵօ ָ, ָ פ ߙ ߕ , Ի ܟֵָ ׻ֵ 16.3 ָ Ùߙߕ ֋ ֮ Ùߙߕ , ֲ פ פ ߕ ߙ ֙ 12 ֋߅ ָ, ֟ ָ ܟ ָ֕ ֯ Ի ֮֋, ֿ ֟ ֻ֮ ֯ , פ֮ ָ ׸֮̾ , ֮ ָ ָ Ի ܟֵָ ֯ ߙ ִ֟ ֣ ֱ ײֻ ִֵָ , ֿ ָ ֲ ֯ , ֲ ֟ ָ ߙ , ֮֯ ״֟ , ׸̾ , ָ ֯ ִߙ ֤ ֋ , ֮֯ , ֟ , ֮ ׸ ד֟ օ ָ ָ ߕ ߙ , ֙ ֲָָ ֲ פ , ֲ פ Ùָ ׻֋ ֯ ״ֻ , ֯ ֿ ߙ ֮ , ֮

ָ ִ ֤ ֋ , Ӥ ִ ֮ , և פ , ֲ פ , ֲ Ùߙ ִ ִ ֮ ֟ ֿ ֵ ׸̾ Ùߙ ֮, ִ , פ, Ù פ ָ - ô ִ ֮ , ִ ָ ܟ ָ֕ ֲ ֮ ִ ִֵ ִ ֻ Ùߙߕ ִ ֮ ֟ Ӆ פ ָ ֮ Ùߙߕ ִ ֮ ֟ , ߣ ֤--, . ֻ , ֳ ָ , ֲ . ֻ ִ ֟ , ֻ . ֻֻօ ָ ָ ֿ, פ ֛ ־ָ , ִ ֈ פ ֻ ָ ֿ ִ ֮ ֟ օ ... ֟ ִ Ù פ ֻ ... ֟ ִ ֮ ֟ օ ׻֋ ָ ָ , ָ ִ , ֿ ִ ָ ֋ ֤ ֋օ

֟ ֣, ӟ ֯ ֮ ִֵָ ָ ߛ ֿ ֟ , ֮ ֋, ָָ ֮߅ ֤ߵ ֲֻ ֮ ߤ ֵ ֟ ӲӬ ֿ ֋ꅠ ֮־֤ ֵ

ָ֮ (׸): ֳ֬ , ֮־֤ ָ, ִֵָ ֮־֤ ֕ ֈ ִ֮ ֛ ֯ ֲꌙ כ֮ ׻֋

ָ, ֲ ָ ֤֕ , ָ ָ ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ֮ ׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ִ֮ ֲ ׿ ִ , 527 ٻִֵ ָ 괲ֻ ߙ ߛߴ֮օ ִ וִ ׻י׿ֵ֮ 򻾛 , ؙ ֯ 򻾛 ֮ ֻ ִֵ ֮ , 򻾛 괲ֻߕ ֟ , ׻֋ ֺ ֳ ӟ™ 녠 ׻י׿ֵ֮ әÙ Ùߙ ֮ ׻֋ ֮ ևә, , ֋ ָ ־֋ ױ ײ ߵظ ־֋

֟ Ͽ ָ ָָ ׻״֮֙ ״ֿ֮ ָ ߴ ׸ֵ֛ ֕ ֵ֮ , ו֮ ָ ֮ ֮ 3S/MCM ָ

MCM-TDB/3S/4-25

ָ֮ (֟) : ו וִ ִ ß֮ ׻י׿ֵ ֱ ꅠ ֻ ָ ִ֮ ָ ֮֮ߵ ָ כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ߮ ָ כߕ֮ ֟ ָ ֋ ָ ֮ և ؙ և , ױ ߮ ָ ָ 10 ָ ָ Ù 10 10 ׻י ֙ , ױ כߕ֮ ׻י׿ֵ֮ ׻י׿ֵ֮ әÙ ֮ ָ  әÙ օ Ù ״ֻ֮ ״ֻօ ߿֮ , ևָ ߕ ֮֟ , ָָ ֵ , և؛ ߅ ֕ , וÙ ֟ ֵ ꅠ ֻ֮ ߿֮ - ֮׸ ߿֮ , 滛 Ù ߿֮ , ևָ ߕ , ֮ ֛ ߿֮ ֮ ֲ ֵ ָָ ָ ֮ ֮ꅠ ֻ ֛ ֮֟ ֮ ֛ ߿֮ ֟ ֋ ָ ָ כߕ֮ և؛ ꅠ ߿֮ ֲָ ֮ ײ ߵظ ײ ߵظ ָ ײ ֈ ֤ ֮ ֵ ֋ ؙ - ָ ֵ 㟟ױ ָ, ߿֮ ֮ , ִ֮ ָ ָָ ӛ פ ٻִֵ ִָ Ùߙߕ ׻ ֵ ו֮ Ù ֮ ֮ ֜ և י ״ֻ ִָ ֱ Ùߙߕ ֜  ֋ ֮ ֜ ֋ ִָ Ùߙߕ ֻ ٻִֵ ׻״֙ ִ ֜߅ ֟ ִ և, ׻֋ ׻֟ ֟ ֱֻ ֵ ׻֟ ֮ ֜ Ùߙ ֜߅ one section of the society has been allowed. ָ ֮ ֜ ִָ ֱ ߙ ֜ Ӆ ֻ כ , ֮ ִ֠ ֟օ ־ և׸ ָ ֤ ֵ֟ ֵ Ù ֮ , ֻ ә Ùߙ ָ ߅ Ù , ֲ֤ ִָ ֱ ߙ כև that should be the criteria for each constituency. ֮ ֵ ָ Ù ߱ ״׮Ù כÙ ׮֙ ֮ ֤ ӛÙ Ӥ ו֮֟ Ùߙߕ ִ ֈ to change the share ֮ ֤ , ָ ܵ ӡ כÙ כÙ ֈӛ , just to satisfy ׻י ꅠ ֤ ִ֮ ֮ ֲ כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ִֵ ֲ Ù ֈ כÙ ֈӛ , ִ ׻י י ֮ Ùߙ ֮֜ ׿ֿ That law should stand.

֟ ֺ Ù ևֻ ׸ ֛ 겻ִ population influx ֵ֠ ׾֤ ֵ ֋, ևֻ ևי ָ֟ ևֻ ֮ ә ֮ ׻֋ there should be some special provisions. ևֻ Ùߙߕ ֣ ֮ ֜ ָ ָ , ָ ꅠ ׻֋ ֺ ָ ֋ ָ ևֻ ׸ϕ , ״ֻꅠ ִ ֲ ֻ ֮ ֈә ִ ٕػ ָ ׸֕ ֮ ֣ ֋ ׻֋ ïֻ ׾֕ͮ Ùߙ כÙ , ׻֋ ֛ , ֛ ו֮֙ ֻ ֵօ ָ ߙ ֋ (3T ָ ֿ:)

KGG-GS/3T/4.30

ָ֮ (֟) : ֟ ֯ ִ֮ ֮ ָӓֻ ֵ Ù ֮ Ù 00 ׮ֻ֮ ׻֋ ֛ ו֮֙ ֵ ָ ׸֕ Ù ֮և ֵ, ֤ ָӓֻ Ù ׸֕ Ù ֵ֮ ֵօ ִ ׸֕ , ִ ָ ׸ָ , 00 , ָӓֻ ֻ ֲ ׸֕ , ׻֋ פ ֵ ־֮Դ , ֈ ׸֕ ִ ֻ ֵ כӛ Ù ֮֯ ָ Ùߙ ֮և ֋, פ ֵ ֮֯ ״ֻ ָ ֤ ֮֯ ״ֻ߅ ָ ִ ֵ ֲ , ֲ Դ ָ ׸֕ , ׸֕ ֵ, ֻ ֓׮י ֟ , כև ו֮֟ Ùߙ Ù ֮, that should be on the same pattern. ָ כ There should be no discrimination. Ù ֮֯ 2 20 ָ. That State should be treated at par. Ù ָ ֮և և ߅ ֮ ֟ ֮ ֟ ִ֯ ִֵָ ׻ֵ ֵ֟ ֵ, ֟ ֺ כ-׻״֮֙ ߿֮ ָ ֲ ִ , ֲ әÙ ו֮֟ ֻ , ֮ , ֮ ֻ ٻִֵ ꌿ֮ ָ ֮ , ֯ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (TAMIL NADU): Sir, it is really a very important question on which our hon. Member, Mr. Narayanasamy has come forward with a Resolution. But, to appreciate the feelings of Mr. Narayanasamy, we have to go a bit deeper into the history and we have to find out how India or Bharat has been created. As the Constitution says, it is the Union of States. Therefore, the States are the Union united together to form India. Article 18(i) stipulates, "Subject to provisions of article 33, the House of the People shall consist of (a) not more than 530 Members chosen by direct election from territorial constituencies in the States, and (b) not more than 20 Members to represent the Union Territories chosen in such manner as Parliament by law provide."

Therefore, here, two factors are there, that is, the direct election from territorial constituencies in the State. The Constitution has come into force long ago and many times we have amended the Constitution, more specifically, the First Schedule, which says about the number of States and also the number of Union Territories. Now, we have got a number of States. Excepting Sikkim, there is no expansion of the territory of India. We are having many States. The number of States has increased.

So, the history shows that when Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru was kind enough to respect the feelings of linguistic people and the States were divided on the basis of linguistic majority, and on that basis, every language was respected and the States were also demarcated, accordingly. (Contd. by 3u)

kls/4.35/3u

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (contd.): Therefore, the basic structure is, the States, which are having the linguistic population in that territory, the linguistic majority of the people who are having a particular language in that particular territory, that is the basic unit on which India was built up. Therefore, when there is representation of that particular territory, we are allowing the territory to be occupied by a linguistic majority and that majority is represented before the House of the People. Therefore, when the constituencies within the territory are going to be demarcated, then we have to appreciate whether the linguistic majority or the linguistic ethnic group is totally represented in the House of the People. Sir, after for more than 50 years, India has found a very symbolic unification of the States in another way; The linguistic people have migrated from one place to another and started to settle in different parts of the nation, so the linguistic differentiation is gradually going backward and limitation between the people on the basis of language that demarcation is gradually becoming very much meager, almost invisible. We cannot even find out what differentiates one Indian from another Indian. We are really becoming Indian, we absorb the Indian culture, we do not have any linguistic barrier between one person and another, and we mingle with each other as true Indians. A person, who represents a Tamil Nadu's small village of Trivannamalai, is from Marwari community. He has migrated from Gujarat. And many other people who have migrated from other States contest Assembly election to represent that particular constituency. It is very bold enough to say to the public, "I represent the feelings of people who are living as neighbours to me, therefore, I can represent their caste in the Assembly. In the same way, Tamilians who have migrated from different parts of Tamil Nadu have settled in Bhopal or in Delhi or in Kolkata or even in small villages of Rajasthan or of Punjab have made themselves as part of Punjabis or they make themselves as Rajasthanis. There are many people who have migrated to Maharashtra. I know that even Subramanium, who was a Member of the Maharashtra Legislative Assembly, became the Finance Minister of that State. A person who was born in my town Sivaganga migrated and settled in Maharashtra. He has not changed his name; he actually has forgotten his language, but at the same time, he has retained his name Subramanium. He represented Maharashtra, and the biggest commercial State of India was represented by a Tamilian as the Finance Minister of that particular State. Therefore, this migration and integration of India is now coming forward. But there is a very ticklish issue. We should not forget the linguistic demarcation, the territory of the State and representatives who are living within the State. Sir, just like a family having husband, wife and a child and gradually that child has got three children and in that way when they are bigger and bigger and larger and larger enough, the same house has to be divided into three or four or five or ten rooms for their living. In the same way, India as a territory is having many small rooms, which are the States, which have to be represented properly. At the same time, population is also exploding. Population is the majority, which is the language of the democracy. The meaning of the democracy itself is the people, and the majority of people, and the majority is to be looked after. But, Sir, we are having a deficiency in one way and Tamil Nadu is one such specific example where the family planning was enforced throughout by the State the years and, therefore, the population of Tamilians was reduced in that State. Therefore, when there was delimitation at an appropriate time according to the Constitutional mandate, at that time Indiraji had come forward with notion that we can freeze it instead of losing one or two particular seats in Parliament to be represented by the Tamilians in Tamil Nadu.

(Contd 3W)

-KLS-SSS/4.40/3W

SHRI E. M. SUDARSANA NATCHAIPPAN (CONTD.): We can have a frozen figure instead of having 40 down to 39. Let us not allow that 39 to be a reduced figure and let 39 be the frozen figure for Tamil Nadu State. Therefore, we are having 39 linguistic constituencies representing the Tamilians of a particular territory. But at the same time, population is exploding in other States. Therefore, other States need some more representation in the Parliament. But, at the same time, the Tamil territory should also have an equal representation. Therefore, here is a ticklish issue. Accordingly, we have to find out a new formula. We should take the basic data, i.e. 39 constituencies representing the Tamil Nadu State but, at the same time, if you want to increase the numbers of Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh or Punjab or any other State which is having an exploded population, that population should be represented in the House of the People at the highest level of the Parliament, i.e. the Lok Sabha. But, at the same time, we have to find out a new formula by which constant numbers should be there. At the same time, there should be some multiplication by which more number of the representations should also come forward in the Parliament. It may not be a small thing like having a new construction of the Parliament, i.e. representatives of the Lok Sabha. When we are discussing about the women's representation in the legislature, we may be having the feeling that we have to widen the Rajya Sabha, the inside part of the Rajya Sabha. In the same way, we can shift it to the Lok Sahba and the Lok Sabha can be shifted to another place, having a wider space. Therefore, space is not important. The space can be built up. The building can be built up. But the thing is, the aspiration of the people for whom the State is created, for whom the sovereignty is given, for whom the development is foremost for a State of this modern nation -- all these factors have to be taken into account. Therefore, we have to calculate according to the needs of the people. The State has only to look after the welfare of the people and also the nature around them. The nation as a part consists of a territory where nature is there, natural assets are there, human beings are there and other living things are also there. Their set up is changing every time. A person who is living in a city, may not like to be there but he may be migrating to a territory, which is now classified as a hill station. A person may like to live in a hill station just like Ooty. But, at the same time, if the population goes further to Ooty, then, it is highly populated. But, in the same way, reverse is also happening. Since the villagers are not having sufficient employment opportunities, the purchasing power is very low, therefore, they are migrating towards urban areas. The urban population is increasing. Their developmental possibilities are much more rather than rural development. They are getting very well laid roads, they are having electricity, they are having water facilities, they are having security, they are having police, they are having health facilities, educational facilities, job opportunities, modern education, everything is available in urban areas. But the rural area is having certain deficiencies. Therefore, migration from one part to another part is also going on. Therefore, the population is migrating from one place to another place. Vice-versa is also happening. People are migrating from the urban area to the rural area or from the hilly areas. Therefore, the constant figure is the number, the territory and the linguistic aspect only. These three constantly should be there. At the same time, there should be proper representation in the House of the People. Sir, coming to the limitation part of it, the delimitation is having a mandate by way of the act. Sir, when I was a Member of Lok Sabha, at that time, when this enactment came and was debated in the Parliament, we could say that there was an urgency to pass this enactment because there was a Constitutional mandate; there should be a delimitation in a particular period. Already, the period was frozen and subsequently, it cannot be further frozen, only the seats can be frozen but the delimitation process had to be continued. (CONTD. BY NBR/3X)

-SSS/NBR-NB/3X/4.45

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): Therefore, there was law passed at that time taking 1971 Census as the basic data. Subsequently, that was also amended by taking 1991 Census as the basic data. On that basis, now, the delimitation of constituencies, according to Section 9, has been taken up. Section 9 says, 'All constituencies, as far as practicable...' That -- practicability -- is the main proposition that has been taken up. Sub-Clause (2) says about geographically compact areas. The third one is with regard to physical features, existing boundaries of the administrative units, facilities of the communication and public convenience. The fourth one i.e., boundaries of administrative units is variable. Many States are coming forward with new States, new districts, mandals and also Panchayats. Therefore, it is a varying process. Facilities of communication and public convenience are also varying according to the developmental pace of a particular State or particular administrative unit. So, I would like to point out another factor. When population is increasing in a particular area, we are classifying this as existing boundaries of the administrative units. The administrative units are having different categories. A person who is living in a Panchayat is having an administrative system according to the Panchayat Act or Panchayat system. But, at the same time, when a person who migrated from Panchayat to an urban area where there is more population, they are controlled by Nagar Palika Act. That means, they have their own system of management. They have got their own administrative system. Therefore, there are more opportunities to utilise more wealth of the nation for their purpose. For example, a person who is living in Delhi utilising more funds of the nation, rather than a person who is living in a nearby village. Therefore, the utility and also the partition take away more slice of the nation's wealth by urban areas. And, a system has also been created to have more representation, according to the population of a particular group of people in urban area. They have got their own ward system. They have got municipalities or corporations. Then, they have got different sectors of administration -- Chairman of their own wards, etc. Therefore, there are more opportunities for individual or a group of people or majority of people to represent in a particular system. In urban areas you have got more opportunities. But, at the same time, in villages, they have got less opportunities. When there is an increase in population, the system of representation is more when you compare with a system in a village. Sharing wealth of the nation is also proportionately larger in urban areas when compared to areas where you have Panchayats or rural areas. Therefore, we have to find out in which way the population is satisfied. People living in the urban areas wanted to grab more funds from the nation's exchequer for their utility when compared to villages. They have got more amenities. They have got more banks. They have got more schools. They have got more universities. They have got more colleges. They have got better transport facilities. They have got better medical facilities. Everything is good in urban areas. Therefore, the development part of a particular section of population in the urban areas is much more and they are utilising more funds of the nation's exchequer when compared to rural areas. To represent the people, we have created the House of People. The representation in urban areas is much more transparent. There is more possibility of representing their grievances, getting more faster development in urban areas when compared to rural areas. Therefore, the territory is a constant one. But, at the same time, the population is much larger. I can compare, for the debate sake, some constituencies. For example, a person contesting from Villivakkam in Chennai. There, about 23 lakh voters are electing one Member to the Legislative Assembly. (CONTD. BY USY "3Y")

USY/450/3y

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): At the same time, constituencies, like, Mayiladuthurai are having only 1.5 lakh people. Twenty-three times more people are living in one area. They are also electing one representative. And, the people in a less populated constituency also elect one representative. But are we going to divide those twenty-three lakhs, making 23 MLAs for that area? That means 23 representatives in one urban area will be grabbing more wealth for that constituency than a single representative who is isolated in a particular rural constituency. Therefore, we have to devise a certain formula by which the urban area people, where the population is more, are also represented properly; and, at the same time, the constituencies which have less population, but territory-wise are large, are also equally taken care of.

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)

Therefore, Sir, what I would like to suggest here is that there should be a new formula. There should be a proper approach by which delimitation is worked out. It should not be on the on the basis of a fancy for a particular person, representing a particular State. If they are having associates representing a particular Government, they should not be having the course to decide the fate of the people. I can very well say that a particular party, which represent a particular State, may find that, in future, they can win if that particular constituency is made geographically like this -- having composition of a particular caste, even though it is linear-wise. I can even cite one example of my own constituency. Nearby, there is one Tiruvadanon constituency. It is a coastal area. It is having contiguity of two panchayat unions. But, now, they want to have a delimitation, where it will be extended by more than 60 kms. from North to South, with a smaller constituency than the present one simply because a particular caste is going to be represented in a particular constituency. Therefore, they want to have majority of that caste in a particular area so that they can win the elections accordingly. This type of thing is creating a doubt on the delimitation process. That is why this resolution has been brought by hon. Member, Shri V. Narayanasamy simply because the phrase 'as far as practicable' is used, it should be scientific. It should not be made on the basis of the whims and fancies of particular Members who are sitting there. It is a very important thing. It is mentioned in the Constitution also. It is mentioned in article 82, which says, "The territorial constituencies shall be readjusted by such authority and in such a manner as Parliament may by law determine". Therefore, the Constitution has conferred total powers to fix as to what should be the criteria or as to what should be the formula to be followed by the Delimitation Commission. Here, I would like to point out the deficiency in the present law, where a blank cheque is given to the Members of the Commission to say 'as far as practicable'. What is practicable? Parliament has got the right to decide that this is the formula that we want to give the Delimitation Commission to follow so that a proper representation to the people is given at the appropriate forum. That should be the main thing. The phraseology that is used in section 9(a) should be re-looked. Accordingly, the hon. Member, Shri V. Narayanasamy, has given a proposition in his Resolution that the Government should look into the practical difficulties being experienced by various States by delimiting the constituencies. Apart from the population criteria, topography of the area, ravines, rivers, districts and communities should also be considered while delimiting the constituencies. (Contd. by 3z -- VP)

VP/4.55/3Z

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): Another point is that the elected representatives who are associate members should also be provided with voting powers so that their views are properly represented in the Delimitation Commission. Here, in the first two parts, he wants to make a proposition to formulate a new formula by which the Parliament has to give a clear pathway to indicate to the Delimitation Commission so that a proper representation can be made and a proper representative capacity can be given to that Commission. Sir, the Commission consists of members and associate members, but associate members have got certain rights according to the Delimitation Act which says that associate members can come forward with certain ideas. I am reading sub-clause (2)(a):

"The Commission shall (a) publish its proposal for the delimitation of constituencies, together with the dissenting proposals, if any, of any associate member who desires publication thereof, in the Gazette of India and in the Official Gazettes of all the States concerned and also in such other manner as it thinks fit."

 

Here, an opportunity is given to make it transparent to give the dissenting note. But what is the use of giving a dissenting note, Sir, when it is not accepted by the majority? It has to be accepted by the majority. Simply, if it is published in the Gazette, that does not serve the purpose because the enactment says that you cannot go in for appeal. When it is notified, they will be calling the objections. The objections will, again, be dealt with by the same Commission. If that verdict is given, that is the end of it. Therefore, the dissenting note should be clubbed with the voting right also; only then, will there be a majority by which a decision can be taken. That is why, our hon. Member has suggested that the associate member should have the right to vote, and also by that method, we can take a majority decision. That majority decision will enable associate members to have their views, substantiate and justify their views by convincing other members. By that method, they can get the majority vote and their decision can be the final one. That finality can be given only when a voting right is given to the associate members. The associate member cannot be a person only to give a dissenting note. He should be given an opportunity to participate in the process, to give a clear verdict in which way the Commission should come forward in the final report. Therefore, Sir, this power of the associate member should be enlarged, and for that purpose, a new clause should be added in this particular enactment which is now enforced in certain States. At the initial stage, it was told that in certain States, the delimitation process was already over, and it was gazetted. Even then, Sir, when majority of the States are going in for delimitation, a proper formula should be given by the Parliament. Therefore, it needs a full-fledged debate, by way of an official amendment being brought forward by the Government to give a position for associate members to have their views and give them a full-fledged right to vote for taking a final decision.

Sir, I would like to make one more observation regarding the formula. As, in the initial stage, I have submitted that the linguistic majority is the basic criteria on which States were demarcated, States have their own representation. They have their own assemblies and their own languages. The language which is used in that particular State is the official language of that State. (Continued by PK/4a)

PK/4A/5.00

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (CONTD.): Their literature, their scientific literatures, everything is made in that particular language. Therefore, a person who has migrated.......

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, now, it is five o'clock. There are other five speakers. Then, the Mover of the Resolution has to reply. Thereafter, the Government has to reply...(Interruptions)..

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, this Resolution being a very important legislation, which is concerning all the States and also the Members of Parliament, I request the hon. Deputy Chairman to consider that it may be carried over and taken up as a first item in the next Session.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: If the House so desires, we can carry this Resolution over to the next Session.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Okay, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you. This will be taken up as a first Resolution in the next Session. The House is adjourned to meet on Monday.

........

The House then adjourned at one minute past

five of the clock till eleven of the clock

on Monday, the 22nd May, 2006.