THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: So, whatever words are unparliamentary, including the word, * , will be expunged. Shri Abu Asim Azmi. Not present. Shri Abani Roy.


* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

׮ ֵ (׿ִ ֻ) : ֳ֬ , ׾ֻ ׾֋֮ ״׮Ù , ־ֻ ֟Դ֮ , ־ֲ , ֲ ֟ ָ-ָ ־֕ ֤ Ӥ և ִ֯ӣ ֬׮ modernisation ֱֻ ֻ֟ Ӥ ָָ ٙ ָ-ָ highlight , ֟ ֻ֟ We are not against modernisation, but we are against privatisation. We are against the sailing of the country to any other place. That is our main objective.

ָ ֟ ָ , ֨ן ָ , ד׽ ֲ ׻ , ד׽ ־ֲ ֠ ӡֵֻ ״ֻ Ϭִ֮ӡ ״ֻ , ֟ ߯ ֮֟ ָ ֤õ ֮֟ ־ֻ ָ ׸ ? ָ ׸ כ modernisation ׻֋ ̟֕ ֋, ? ָָ ã , ָ ֮֮ ׿ֿ Ӯ , , ־ֻ օ ָ-ָ ִ֯ӣ ̤֕ ֻև ׻֋ ֟ ׻֋ * , ֻ֟ ֮ ֬׮ ֣-֣ ָ ׸ כ ֬׮ , ׯ֔ ֚ ֻ פ ֵօ ׻֋ וִָ , ׻֋ ׯ֔ ָָ וִָ ָָ וִָ ָָ , ֵ ׻ֵ ... ָָ և, פ֋ ֟ ֲ ևخ , ׻֋ ָ ֤ , և ֋, ׻֋ ָ ֋, "և" ֲֻ֟ ß֟ פ ևև֮ , ָ ̟֕ ֮֟ ߅ ־ֻ ־ֻ ָ ã֋ , Ի ? , ֤õ , Ԯ ָ 㯟 ָ ִ֤ ߅ ָ ֤ ִ֤ , ִ ֻ ָ ֋ ֻ ָ ֋, ׻֋ ֬և ָ-ָ ֬׮ ֟ 㴲և ָ


* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

֬׮ ־ֿ ? ײػ ־ֿ ? ֻ ־ֿ ? ־ֿ ? ֕ פև և ֕ ֟ , և ָ ֻ ֻ ״֮֙ ֛ ״ֻ֟ ֱÙָ ֺ ָ-ָ ֲ ָ ׾ ֟ ָ ß ߮ - , ָ և, ֟ , ֜ , , ָ ֲֻ֟ ָ ֲֻ֟ և ֕ ָ ֤ և ֕ ָ , ֛ ֵ פև , ֵ ׸ٟ֟ ? ֱÙָ ? ֻ ? և ָ ׮֕ ָ, ִ ֵ֤ , ֻ֟ ָָ ָ ׸ כ ֟ וֿ , ֻ ִ ֋ ֋, ָ ֺ , , ָ ֋ ... (4 B/ASC ָ ֿ:)


׮ ֵ (֟) : ָ Ӥ ׮֕ ׮֕ ׮֕ ֤ ֻ VRS ߅ ִ ָ ׮ֻ פօ ֯ ־֕ 'ֻ' ֮֯ , NDA ָָ օ ֕ ֻ֟ ? ָ ֟ ו֋ ֯ ֟ ֻ֟ ֟ , ֯ ٻִֵ ה ֤ Ӥ ֟ ה֮ ָ ׬ָ ? ָ ׸ ֮ ָ , ֮ ָ ֻ ? ָ ֮ ֱ ָ ֮ ֱ , ֋? Ùָ ֲֻ֟ ? ֯ ֛-֛ ֟ ֻ ָ ֯ ™ ...(ִֵ ә) .. ָ-ָ , ™ ָ ָ ָ ֯ ֆ, ָ ִ ָ ..(־֮֬). וֿ ֟ ָ ֟ ָ ׸ ֱ כ Ի , , ָ וֿ ӡ ֯ ֟ ֯ և ־֕ ևև ֋ ס֯׸֤ ևև ֋߅ ָ և ֮ , ֻܵ ֯ ָ ׮֕ ֋, ֟ ߅ (ִ֯)


THE MINISTER OF STATE (INDEPENDENT CHARGE) OF THE MINISTRY OF CIVIL AVIATION (SHRI PRAFUL PATEL): Sir, it is a very interesting, informative and a very valuable discussion which has taken place today...

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: And my last speech!

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Maybe, unfortunately, for us, you will not be here. My friends, Shri Sitaram Yechury and others have not chosen to send you.

SHRI SITARAM YECHURY: It is on rotation basis.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Anyway. We value your system and we respect that. But we will be losing a friend in Parliament, not outside. Of course, we will always be friends.

Sir, the entire discussion and the debate which has been going on for the last couple of hours has also been preceded by many a debate in the media, in various forums, in various interactions not only with my esteemed colleagues who are in Parliament but also with many others outside also.

Sir, the importance of air-travel has assumed different dimensions and proportions than what it ever was in the past. That does not mean to say that what is being spoken about aviation does not apply to other sectors also. This is the phenomenon which we are seeing across our country, in sector after sector, where the fruits of development are now showing results; and the aspiration level of our people is also undergoing a sea-change. We have to match the expectations of our people in this changing scenario both in terms of our economic development and in terms of the integration of our economy from within and from outside. I feel that aviation has an importance which cannot be undermined in today's age.

Well, as far as the overall scope of aviation is concerned, the AAI has a very important role to play. There is no doubt about that. Many issues have been raised by many a Member, starting from my colleague, Shri Dipankar Mukherjee and respected Sharad Yadavji for whom I have great respect not only individually because of my old association from Argaon, Gondia and Jabalpur where he used to come and give many ojasvi bhashans -- ָ פ þ פ օ ֻ ֮֕ן ֟ , ֌ ֟ ֌ ֓ , ױ פ ôָ ׻֋, we have great admiration for his debating skills -- but also for his concern for the cause of the development of our people and the common man, as he tried to make a point here. (Contd. by 4c/tdb)


SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (CONTD.): Sir, in terms of aviation, let us accept one thing, as my colleagues, Shri Lalit Suri, Shri Arjun Kumar Sengupta, Shri Dipankar Mukherjee and many others have also raised that issue, that there is a great deal of importance which we have to attach. Sir, in a country as big as India, both in terms of population and the geography of India, India is a country as big as a continent, we must not forget that the fruits of development must be equitably spread across the country. Today, even after so much has happened, in spite of Cochin having come up, in spite of Trivandurm was made the fifth international airport after the four major Metros, and in spite of the fact that we have now international flights going and even domestic flights operating in many airports across the country, it is a fact that even today, more than 50 per cent of all the traffic of aviation is centred around Mumbai and Delhi alone. And, that is not a very healthy phenomenon, if you look at the equitable distribution of the fruits of development of a great nation as of ours. And, that is why, I think the moot point which we must try to understand, Sir, here is that the effort in this direction is mainly to see that the Airports Authority of India and the resources of the Airports Authority of India and the Government are put to the best use for equitable growth and this growth should be distributed all across the country. There is no dispute on the fact; there is no disagreement, Sir, in the minds of the Government; there is no confusion also that we are thinking in two different ways. As far as the Airports Authority of India is concerned, we respect that it is a premier institution. ֮֯ "־ָ" ֟ , "־ָ" ״ֻ , "״֮ ־ָ" ״ֻ , ֯ ֮ There is no doubt about it. It has a potential; it has a great future. I am also one of those people who feel that, yes, the Airports Authority of India will be able to become even bigger organisation than what it is today. In the changing context of aviation where unlike many a sector, where there is a shrinkage of opportunity, I think, this is a sector where there is going to be expansion and explosive growth in the days and years to come. And that will in its own way lead to more economic development, lead to more opportunities for organisations like the Airports Authority of India, for our own airlines like Air India and Indian Airlines, for many...

ָ ֤ : ӡ , ֯ ״֮֙ yield

ϱ ֙ : , ײֻօ

ָ ֤ : ֯ ׮־ ֮, ֲִ֤, ֲ֤ ߮, פ Ӳև, total revenue פ ֯ ֋, ָ ׸ ֓, ־ֻ ֕ ֲ ֛ ־ֻ ׮ ֮ ֤ ? 58 ֻ , ָ revenue earn , ֟ ֯ ֤ ָ ׸ financial position ֕ sound , ֮ , ֺ ֟և

ϱ ֙ : ֮֮ߵ ֤ ֟ ֮֯ Ͽ ã֟ , ߯ ָ ֤õ ־ֻ ֵ ײֻ ֟ ָ ֯ ֮֟ ӟ™ ׿ֿ օ ׮־ sector ֵ ָ ֣ ֜ ֤֟ ׸ Ԯ ָ 㯟 there is a new dimension. We will have to respond to the new needs of a sector. We have seen it in the past, in many a sector, not only in aviation, wherever we have seen new approach being taken, we have seen in telecom, we have seen in power, we have seen in road, we are seeing in shipping; we are seeing in ports. All these sectors where the growth has come, we have seen that a new approach has to be taken. We could not get it fixed it in the minds of the people that everything will be done by the Government. The moment we adopted openness, we have adopted a new approach, where public-private partnership became the order of the day, we have seen those sectors grow on a different trajectory. (Contd. by 4d)


SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (contd.): I respect what Dipankarji has said, what Nilotpalji in his various interactions has mentioned.

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: Mr. Minister, will you yield for a moment? I am not understanding. If you look at the sequence of events, in 1995, when this new Airports Bill came to Parliament, the main objective in the Statement of Objects stated was why international and national airports were being combined. It was to see to it that the airports have more evenly distributed development to allow international airports to actually cross-subsidise the rest of the airports. 1995 was the height of reforms. Already things had started moving. At that time, you felt that it is imperative to combine both the airports so that the whole airport sector grows. Within three years, what happened suddenly that you have no other go but to privatise these two premier airports?

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, Mr. Nilotpal Basu was not present when Mr. Dipankar Mukherjee raised identical points. What he has just brought up to my notice has already been mentioned in exact words also by Mr. Dipankar Mukherjee, that the Airport Authority of India Act was amended in 1995 and to make NAAI and IAAI, as it stood then, two different organisations were merged and brought into one entity, especially because the scenario was changing and few airports were making profits; the domestic airports were considered to be, at that time, loss-making airports, and, therefore, to cross-subsidise and to make the organisation viable and profitable, this change in legislation was brought about. That is exactly the point which was brought about.

You also mentioned about the blame game against the Airport Authority of India and all that. Sir, we are not into the blame game; this is a serious discussion which is taking place. I am not trying to insinuate or trying to say anything about the capabilities of the Airport Authority of India; there is absolutely no confusion in my mind that the Airport Authority of India is a good organisation, a sound organisation. But, the reasons for moving in this direction, what the Government has chosen are different, which I would like to make very clear.

You also mentioned about accountability of the Executive and the Empowered Group of Ministers being capable to take a decision or not, I think, Mr. Mukherjee, I would disagree with you there. In the Government, everything is a collective responsibility, and it is the Executive responsibility. If the Cabinet has decided to entrust the responsibility of looking after the transaction of Mumbai and Delhi airports to an Empowered Group of Ministers--I think, my experience is that; but, Shivrajji is here--I do not see any reason why the Cabinet cannot appoint an Empowered Group of Ministers.... (Interruptions)

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: My letter to the Prime Minister is very clear. I do not know whether it is forwarded to you. I said, the Executive, whether it is the Cabinet or anybody, they are accountable to the Parliament. I do not think there is any difference in that. The Executive is accountable to the Parliament. We have pointed out that there are certain omissions and commissions, in our opinion, and the Prime Minister should have replied to me, but it has not been replied. I have put a question: The Empowered Group of Ministers has gone beyond its terms of reference by putting its own inputs so far as the eligibility criteria is concerned. That is the second part. My first part has not been answered yet. That is what the point is. It is not your decision. It is this Government's decision. What has been done today? In 1995 they have been integrated. But the merging has taken two years. In 1997, the Airport Authority of India was formed. In 1998, you cannot be held responsible. I do not know why you are taking the blame on yourself. In 1998, this Government took a decision that Delhi and Mumbai airports should be leased. How the 1997 decision match with this? I could have asked the earlier Government if it had been in power. But I do not know, if it is your Government which took a decision to integrate it. This Government has taken a decision of separating Delhi and Mumbai airports, and you want to take both the responsibilities on your shoulder?!

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: No, no; I have never said that. You mentioned that the Prime Minister did not choose to reply to you...

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: That is on eligibility criteria. That was the first point for two Governments. Regarding eligibility criteria, I asked the Prime Minister, I also told here that so far as the Empowered Group of Ministers is concerned, they had changed the eligibility criteria and it is not within the terms of reference. Some reply should have come. I have not got the reply. Wherefrom would I get the reply? From TV channels? It will be only in the Parliament.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: It is my responsibility as a Member of the Government when you are talking about what you have written to the Prime Minister and that you are not satisfied. I being the concerned Minister, I consider it my duty to at least respond to some issue which you have raised about my Prime Minister, and being in the Government it is my duty. (Contd. by kls/4e)


SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (CONTD): Therefore, I just though it would be appropriate to respond. Sir, the whole issue here is, as I said, the Government in its wisdom has taken a decision that the Mumbai and Delhi are not just the two gateways which need to be put to the maximum, I would say, use. The redistribution of traffic must take place across the country. No doubt, having said so, Mumbai's and Delhi's positions also cannot be undermined for the fact that looking around the scenario all across the world, also in our neighbourhood, aviation has a new dimension. Just to give answer to one or two issues, which were raised, I think, by Mr. Manoj Bhattacharya and Mr. Abani Roy also, Sir, an airport is not just something, which is meant for people to come and go. An airport is also a transit hub. It is not just a destination airport. It has got its own economic dynamics which rove around it. Unfortunately, in our country, in our aviation, we have ignored the concept of an aviation hub. Look at Singapore and Dubai, on two sides of our country, they have become the hubs for India, for our airports. Nobody is denying that an airport should be made like palaces. But the fact is that there is a new energy, which has to be brought in. The dynamics of running an airport are not simply of making a terminal for people to come and go. The entire Dubai and Singapore airports, the economics of the airports run only on the basis of transit traffic and 60 per cent of all this traffic in Singapore and Dubai is transit traffic. This is not destination or originating traffic. ...(Interruptions)... My friend, will you let me speak. ...(Interruptions)... I am just explaining something what he has mentioned. ...(Interruptions)... Let me complete. Why should I keep yielding? If there is a substantive point, I will yield. ...((Interruptions)... I have no issues. ...((Interruptions)... I am explaining the rationale of what an airport in today's context is supposed to be. I will yield whenever I feel you are raising an issue and I will be happy to respond. ...((Interruptions)... I am not standing here in the way for you to make a point. ...((Interruptions)... I have never interrupted any of the speakers when they spoke. My point here is that the whole issue and the concept is, why can the Airports Authority not develop Mumbai and Delhi Airports? The issue here is, should the Airports Authority put all its investment, all its future receivables into development of Delhi and Mumbai alone. Or, should the Airports Authority equitably redistribute its resources and actually optimise by constructing airports across the length and breadth of the country? That is the issue. Yes, we can invest money here into Mumbai and Delhi and we can then say bye, bye to most of the airports in this country. That is not the objective. The objective here is that we want that other airports to develop, that is why as a first step, the Government has taken is to see that 35 non-metro airports are developed simultaneously within our limited timeframe. We are not talking open-handed, within three or fours to be built up to international standards, to be made airports, which are of world class. That is the objective. Therefore, nobody is denying that that these airports cannot be made by the Airports Authority The basic assumption which you are making is that we are against the Airports Authority and their competence to make airports, that is being questioned. I would like to refute that. On behalf of the Government and on my own behalf and, I would like to state that nobody is questioning the ability of the Airports Authority. The real issue here is, should the Airports Authority confine itself to Mumbai and Delhi or should the Airports Authority redistribute its assets, its money, and its expertise to developing another 35 airports of the country? ...((Interruptions)... That is moot issue that we are discussing. ...((Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Please. ...((Interruptions)...

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: In response to the Standing Committee's direction to the Ministry, the Airports Authority constituted a high-powered committee to come with a report, which is available with the Ministry, it says. ....((Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Minister, are you yielding? ...((Interruptions)...


THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J.KURIAN): He is not yielding. ...((Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: I had no issue with them. ...((Interruptions)...

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: As the Chairman of the Committee, it is my responsibility also to inform the Members of this House that the Government has reduced the technical criteria for one of the airports from 80 to 50, calling the bluff of this world-class airport building. ...((Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Nobody else. ...((Interruptions)... He is not yielding. ...((Interruptions)...

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: The issue here, which we are talking about today that it is not only about the 35 airports which have to be made. The country has got another, as Mr. Sharad Yadavji pointed out, 126 airports which have been developed by the Airports Authority.

(Contd by 4F)


SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (CONTD.): All these 126 airports are not in the best of condition. These airports need to be made. Across State after State, I would find MPs after MPs trying to see that their airports in their respective areas are now developed. Aviation is no more an elitist concept. Aviation is no more a concept where only a few people choose to fly. It has become essentially a mode of travel as anything else, like the Railways or like the road transport. Aviation has also acquired a new dimension. Therefore, we have to respond. I have never questioned the ability of the Airports Authority as is being insinuated. But, the fact of the matter is, you say what will happen to the Airports Authority if Mumbai and Delhi our two most profitable airports, the jewels in our crown, are going into a joint venture. 'Privatisation' is the word they use; I use the word 'joint venture.' However, that being so, if profitability is of any issue, I have got some figures. I would like to state it with authority here. The actual profit of the Airports Authority in the year 2004 and 2005 was, profit after tax, roughly about Rs. 325 crores. The Budget Estimates for the current year which is to end in a few days time -- I cannot give you the exact figure right now because it takes some time to collate -- but the Budget Estimates of this year are Rs. 361 crores approximately. We have worked out the Budget Estimates of 2006 and 2007, which is the year ahead based on the bids which we have received from Bombay and Delhi and the Budget Estimates work out to Rs. 548 crores. So, in which way after the joint venture of Mumbai and Delhi airport is the financial health of Mumbai and Delhi going to be affected? This is the Budget Estimate which prevails...(Interruptions)...

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: This is absolutely because of the land. It is non-aeronautical. (Interruptions)

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Let me respond to that.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHARJEE: It is exactly the same. What is there in that?

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: No, no, listen. Land is not the issue. (Interruptions)

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Land is the only issue.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Will you please listen to me? My friend, it is based on revenue share.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P. J. KURIAN): No, Dipankarji, you please listen to the Minister.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: In 2006 and 2007, the land in these airports is not going to be developed. Nothing is going to be developed in 2006 and 2007. This is purely based on revenue share and revenue share is based on what is the actual receivables. Revenue share is not something which is the figment of my or your imagination. Revenue share is actually what is going to come.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: What is that arithmetic, if nothing changes? If I am X now and someone else comes, it becomes X plus Y! How? What is the arithmetic? Can you explain? Someone is having X, some private player becomes Y and gives 46 per cent to X. How 46 per cent is equal to X? How? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J.KURIAN): No, no, first you listen to the Minister. Every time, don't get up like this. Mr. Dipankar, don't get up like this every time. Please listen to the Minister. You had your say. Please allow the Minister to reply.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: No, these points have been debated. Let us come to land now. My first point, after the Parliamentary Committee's recommendation, how have we gone against that? That has not been replied. Who took that decision? That has not been replied. My second question is so far as eligibility criteria are concerned, who took the decision? It has not come. (Interruptions) He is evading the replies and giving generalised statements.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Dipankar, I cannot tell you the way in which you should speak, likewise, I cannot tell the Minister how he should speak.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: No, no, he has to give a pointed reply. You cannot tell him but please ask him to give categorical replies to the questions... (Interruptions)...

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: Sir, you have to protect us in terms of getting the replies to questions that have been raised.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J.KURIAN): You made your point. You allow him to speak and in the end you speak if you have anything to say. Now listen to the reply.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, I have to complete. If in one line I have to answer all your questions, it is not humanly possible. He has raised issue after issue; I am coming to them one-by-one. This is also what Sharad Yadavji raised. ֮֯ ִ߮ ָ ִ߮ ֕ , 滵 ֮ , ֯ ִֻ ִϟ֯ , ֮֯ פ 5050 ִ߮ 㴲և 1875 , , ㆻ ִָ ָ , ֮֯ , פ ִ߮ , ִ ֮ ָֻ ߲֮ 400 ִ߮, ֟ ׾µ ִֻ֯ ֲ ֤ , ִ ׮ֻ ևԅ (4/000 ָ ֿ:)


ϱ ֙ (֟) : ָ, Ӳև ִ߮ ֤ ִ߮ ֻ ױ ָ, ִ߮ ָ ֮ ָ Ӳև 5 per cent of total land use can be put for development and that also subject to the local laws and zoning regulations of the local authorities. פ 5 ןֿ֟ Ӳև 10 ןֿ֟, 1875, ֮֯ , Again, subject to local laws and zoning regulations. ֮ ָ , ײ ׻֋ 5,000 4,000 ִ߮ ״ֻ և, ִ ִ֮֮ ֮ ִ ִֻ֯ ֮ , ִֻ֯ ֮ ָ֬ ָ ׸ ָ״ֿ֮ ߅ ׻֋ ֯ ׮־ ֱ և ִ֮֮ ֮

ָ ֤ : ֯ ߲ ָ ־ֻ ־ֲ ...(־֮֬).. ׮֋, פ 550 ִ߮ ִֻ֯ , ׻֋ ֳ ָ ֟ פ ָָ ׮ִֵ 5 ָ ֤ ֯ ׻֋ 5 ָ ָ ׮ִֵ , ֻ ִ߮ , ו ֮ ֤ ߴ֟ , ߴ֟ 150 ֋

ϱ ֙ : ָ, ִ߮ , ߅ ...(־֮֬)

ָ ֤ : ٿֵֻ ׻֋ ֈ օ ...(־֮֬)... ִ ٿֵֻ ׻֋ ֈ ֵ, օ

ϱ ֙ : ָ , ֮֯ Ͽ ִ߮ ֻ ײֻ ִ߮ ֵ֮֯֙ ֻ ? ־ ָ ֟ י ׻֋ , ׻֋ ֵ ֻ

ָ ֤ : , ?

ϱ ֙ : ֯ , ׻֋ ָ ִ߮ ״ֻ 7000, 8000 , ֮֯ ...(־֮֬)

ָ ֤ : ֱ ֯ 253

ϱ ֙ : , ֮֯ , ߯ , ...(־֮֬)

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Why did you not allow the AAI for the last so many years? Why are you allowing the private players? That is the question. It is a scam, because you did not allow the AAI to use the land for the same commercial purpose for so many years. You just look at the way the AAI has been maligned. How all this has come about?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Mr. Dipankar, you have made your point.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Today it must be known why the Government of the day, or, the Government before did not allow the AAI to use that land? All those people have connection. Why a private player should be allowed to come in? This is the question. Sir, no reply is coming from the Minister on this.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J.KURIAN): You are only repeating it. You have also said that point earlier.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: But, Sir, reply is not coming.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You have made your point...(Interruptions)...You are repeating again and again the same point. You have already said it. You made your point. Why are you repeating it?

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: If we ask questions, he has to reply. That is the essence of accountability of the Executive to Parliament.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Let him complete. Let him reply. Please allow him to complete.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, the issue here is not about any fundamental difference. Our friends are thinking that we are selling off. There is no selling off. It is on lease. And the land is going to a joint venture and the joint venture is leasing it out to a consortium which includes the AAI for a period of thirty years. This land is not being sold to anybody. Sir, this entire proposal...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, this is clear.

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: It is not clear...(Interruptions)...Sir, you go through the Report of the Standing Committee. In Bangalore, the same joint venture partners have given land to GMR...(Interruptions)...Sir, he is not replying to that. He cannot reply. There is nothing to reply. There has to be some absolute reply from the hon. Minister.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat.

SHRI NILOTPAL BASU: And, we cannot accept this kind of reply from the hon. Minister. So, in protest, we are walking out.

(At this stage, some hon. Members left the Chamber)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): The Minister has stated in this House that nothing is being sold. It should be taken on its face value.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Sir, I would like Shri Sharadji also to understand this. He was in-charge of the same Ministry. Therefore, I have nothing to add more to his knowledge of the Ministry. But, there is no move which is going to amount to sale of assets. There is no move to privatise the AAI. In fact, the AAI is a growing organisation.



ϱ ֙ (֟) : ָ, ׯ֔ ָָ ִֵ , ָָ ֙ ָ ָ , ִ ֵ ָ ׻֋ ևә ָ ֵ ֋, ִ 74 ןֿ֟ ָ ׌֙ ָ ԓ׸ ׻֋ ֻ ֤, ׾µ ָ ־֮֬ օ ָָ ֮ ֤ Ϭִ֮ӡ ָ NCMP ֮ ֋ ֣ ԓ׸ ֣ ָ ׸ ٣ ׾µ ֮ ֋ ָ ׮Ե ֕ ִ ԓ׸ ִֻ ׾ֿ ֮ ֵ ו֮֟ ԓָ , ߮ ֻ ָֻ ֮ ָ ևә ָ ֋օ ևә ָ ֙ ָ 60 ןֿ֟ 겕Ԯ ԓ׸ ֮ ꅠ ָ ׿ֿ ֤ 겕Ԯ ԓָ , ԓָ ׾µ ָ֟ ָ ֟, և, ָ ׸ ָ ָ ָ , ִ ߿ , ә߮ ָ ָ ָ ִ ״ֻօ ׻֋ ׮־ ו ָ ӿֵ ׮ִ ֵ ָ , ԓ׸ ׾µ ֋, ָ ׸ ٣ ֻ֟ ֲָ ֋, ָ Ͽ ָ ֯ ß ָָ ׮Ե ִֵ ֲ ֟ ֮

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ ־ֻ ָ ևә ָ ֤ ָָ Ù ָ ׮ֵӡ ָ ֻ֋ ו ևә ָ ֮֋ ֋ , ٟ ? ֯ ֣ ָ ߴ , ֣ և ֵ , ִ և , ֻߕ ֛ ־֮֬ פ ֋ ִ ֱ ֮ ֋ ָ ָ ٟ ִ ֮ ָ ֻ כևי from reducing those standards. ־ 'ָ ״ ׸' ֮֮ ָָ ׮Ե ׮Ե ֻ ײ֮֙ ֤ ֙ ָ ֋ ֤ ָ ֻ ߅ 'AERA' ִ֬ , ׾ֳ ׻֠ ׌֙ ׸ , ָ ִֻ ִ֬ ָָ Ù ָ ֲָָ ׮ֵӡ ֋, ָ ևә , ֵ֤ ꮛ פ ֵ , ߔ

ָ ֤ ֮֯ ׌֙ ֱ 150 ֋ , ִ ׌֙ 150 ִ ӿ֮ 150 ֱ, ֣ ߴ և , ָ ׸ ֮ և օ ׌֙ ֿ֟, ו֮֟ ׯ֙ ֯כָ , ָ֬ ָ ׌֙ ׌֙ 150 , ׻ ֤ ߅ ׻֋ ֮֯ ӿֵ 150 ׌֙ ֮ ֛ ָ ִֻ֯ ֮ ֛ ֡ ֠ ...(־֮֬)..

ָ ֤ : 380 ׸̾ օ

ϱ ֙ : ָ, ֯ ׌֙ ֮ ߅ ָ ׌֙ ֋ ָ״ֿ֮ ևә ָ دֻ֯ ָ ׌֙ ֋ ֜ ֕֟ ꅠ ׻֋ ָ ֯ ß ֲ ֮ ׌֙ ֋, ו֮֟ ֡ ״ և , ֜ ֕֟ ֋ ևә ָ ֜ օ ֯ օ ('4J/SCH' ָ ָ)


ϱ ֙ (֟): ָ ־ֻ ֋ ֋ ֮ ֵּ֓ ֻ ֋ , פ - ֮ ֋ ֮֟ פ ׬ - ֮, ֮ - ֮, ֟ , 㴲և ...(־֮֬)

ָ ֤: ֮ ֟ և 㴲և - ֮ ...(־֮֬)

ϱ ֙: , 㴲և - ֮ , ׻֋ ׻֙ߕ , ߻֮ ...(־֮֬)

ָ ֤: ֟ ֮֟ , - ֮ ...(־֮֬)

ϱ ֙: ָ , ס ִֻ ָ י , ֮ ֺ ִֻ֯ ׻֋ Ù ֮ , ִֵ ָ ֟ ִ֮ ֋߅ ֯ ֺ ֮֟ פ 㴲և ֙ , ֕ ֤õ ֮ ד֮ և ֆ ֱ ׾ִֻ ׾ֿ 㴲և פ և ָ ֬-֬ ә - ә ӛ֮ ֛ ױ ֮ ָ ֟ ß ֜ ױ ֮ ֮ օ ֯ ָ֮ ׻֋ ֮֟ The January 2005 versus January 2006 domestic figures, Sir, were very startling even for me. If you look at the month of January 2005 and compare it with January 2006, the growth in domestic aviation was 39 per cent; almost 40 per cent. And if that kind of a growth is being witnessed, I am sure, we will have to look at investing in more and more airports.

You have rightly pointed out Mr. Shunmugasundaram that we need more airports. That is why I started off with the point that why only Mumbai and Delhi, we have to develop all the airports of our country. Today, my friends have just walked out, but in Cooch Behar, in Malda and at many other places airports are now the need of the economic development. And, I am not only talking of West Bengal. I am talking of every State, whether it is Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Himachal Pradesh or Jammu and Kashmir. State after State are now looking for more airports, more air services because that is the need of aviation and that is the need of the people of the country.

I would like to submit, Sir, that many issues have been raised and many a fear has been expressed here, which I would like to put to rest. The Government is committed to world-class airports. We have never said that the Airports Authority is an organisation which cannot carry on the task of building good airports. But the question here is : Should the Airports Authority put all its eggs only in Mumbai and Delhi or should it equitably distribute the resources it has, the manpower it has and the technical expertise it has to other airports of the country? India as a country is growing. The aspirational level of our people is rising. Sir, even today the number of people who fly in a year is probably equivalent to the number of people who travel by train in one day. That cannot remain eternally the same situation for long. Even in your State, Mr. Vice Chairman, Sir, you have seen that the number of people who are wanting to fly both within the country and overseas is growing very fast. And keeping pace with these kinds of developments, keeping the aspirational level of the people in mind, I think, the Government has committed itself to something which is in the best interest of the country. And also going by the financial figures, which I have just quoted to you, and going by the financial health of the Airports Authority, I really do not see any reason why we should have any worry about the future of the Airports Authority. Both in terms of their financial health, and in terms of their employees and their future, I think, the decision taken by the Government will in the long run stand us in good stead. I would request all Members to appreciate that this is a step in the right direction, and we need to develop aviation for the economic prosperity of our country.

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA: Hon. Minister, Sir, have you thought of developing the Calcutta Airport?

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Of course, I was just trying to make a reference to that. Not only Mumbai and Delhi, I said there are other airports. I am sure you will respect that after Mumbai and Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Bhopal and many other airports are there. This is an issue that we have to address. Bangalore, Mangalore or Goa, all these airports are there. You keep naming city after city and all these cities are thirsty for development. They want connectivity. ...(Interruptions)...

ָ ֤: ֻ , ֯ ׸ ָ ׻֋ ִ , ָߤ ? ױ ֻ , , ֋ә ָ , ׮ֻ ֯ ֮ , ֮ ....(־֮֬) 4k/MCM ָ


ϱ ֙ : ָ, ן ֯ ......(־֮֬)

ָ ֤ : , ן , .....(־֮֬)

ϱ ֙ : ֯ ߓ ָ ֣ , ן

ָ ֤ : ֯ ״ֻ߱և ֛ ݻ׸ , ֲ ֮ , ֮ ֯? ׸ , ֯ ו ֯ ֮ , ו ֯ ևֵֻ ֈӛ , ֯ ևә ָ ֻ ֋ ֓ , ֻ , ֻ ָ ו֮ ָ ......(־֮֬) ?.......(־֮֬)

ϱ ֙ : ָ , ֯ ֮ ֻ פ ו ָ ִֵ 㴲և, פ ֱ , 11 և ֱ .....(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): No, no, Sharadji. You can't extend like this.

ָ ֤ : ױָ ֻ֟ ו֋......(־֮֬)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sharad Yadav, you can't extend it like this. ...(Interruptions)... You have asked so many questions. He is replying to every question. Now, let us conclude the discussion. ...(Interruptions).. Now, let us conclude the discussion.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I would, therefore, honourably...(Interruptions)...

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA: Sir, I would like to put one question which he can answer very quickly. ...(Interruptions)...


SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA: Just one point, Sir....(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Only one question, and nothing more.

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA: The question is: is there a possibility of allowing these joint ventures which are using Bombay and Delhi to cross-subsidise some of the other airports like...(Interruptions)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Now, please sit down. ...(Interruptions)..No more questions.

SHRI PRAFUL PATEL: The possibility figures which I just mentioned and have read out will itself bear testimony in the years to come when the revenues of Mumbai, Delhi will increase even further, and, not to say of the dividends also from these two airports will, in future, make Airport Authority even more healthier and a profitable organisation. I would, Sir, therefore, urge our hon. Members to see reason and to support this initiative. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Thank you, Mr. Minister. Now, hon. Members, Half-an-Hour discussion, which has been listed in today's revised List of Business will be taken up tomorrow. Now, Shri Suresh Pachouri will make a Statement regarding the Status of implementation of recommendations contained in the First and fifth Reports of the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Personnel, Public Grievances, Law and Justice.




Sir, with your permission, I beg to lay a statement on the Status of implementation of recommendations contained in the First and fifth Reports of the Department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Personnel, Public Grievances, Law and Justice, on the Table of the House.






SHRI SHARAD ANANTRAO JOSHI (MAHARASHTRA): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, this Special Mention is intended to draw the attention of the Ministry of Railways to a massive agitation by the villagers of 60 villages around Manimau. Manimau was a halt station on the Farrukhabad-Kanauj meter gauge railway line, just ahead of the bridge on the river Ganga. After broadening of the line, the halt stations at Khudaganj, Kalyanpur, Chaubepur and also Manimau were abolished. However, after the intervention of a senior national leader, all these halt stations were restored except the one at Manimau. Manimau is a centre for production and trade in potatoes and sunflower. There are 15 cold storages in this place and a large number of traders come to purchase potatoes at Manimau. There is only one Middle School here. Consequently, over 1400 children from Manimau and surrounding 50 to 60 villages used to take train from the old halt station at Manimau. The villagers in this area have been agitating by means of blocking the railway line, hunger strikes and gherao of railway and police officials since 7th December, 2005.

It appears that very shortly this agitation will take a violent turn and may result in a large number of casualties and loss of property.

I urge upon the Government to take immediate action to restore the halt at Manimau railway station on the Farrukhabad-Kanauj broad gauge line. Thank you.


(Followed by 4L/PB)


THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Shri Amar Singh; absent. Shri Motilal Vora; absent. Miss Pramila Bohidar.


MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR (ORISSA): Now, the process of delimitation of Assembly constituencies in the State of Orissa is under progress. But as it appears, there are several procedural mistakes in the method adopted by the Commission set up for this purpose.

Five MLAs and three MPs from the State have resigned from the Commission who were co-opted as Associate Members. These Members have observed that the Commission, set up to suggest delimitation of constituencies, has issued guidelines and has methodologies which are not in consonance with the provisions of the Delimitation Act.

It is necessary that the Commission adopts the methods enumerated in Section 9 of the said Act. Any deviation from these provisions will not only be unfair for the constituents, the people and the people's representatives, but also will be unconstitutional. It may so happen that, instead of smoothening the process, it may lead to avoidable complications.

In view of this, I request the Government to immediately look into this matter, and if irregularities are found, it must be corrected.

Thank you, Sir, (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Shri Vijay J. Darda; absent. Dr. Alladi P. Rajkumar.



DR. ALLADI P. RAJKUMAR (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, this is my last Special Mention as my tenure is going to end. I think, it deserves appreciation from the House.

Sir, the subject of my Special Mention is 'Need for early legislation on reservation for women in Parliament and State Legislatures'. The idea of making a legal provision for reservation of seats for women in Parliament and State Assemblies came into being when in 1993, one of the most important steps for the empowerment of women and increasing their participation in decision-making was taken by reserving 33 per cent seats for women in Panchayati Raj and local bodies. Against all apprehensions, women succeeded in overcoming heavy odds to achieve good results in these institutions. Later on, Shri H.D. Deve Gowda, in his tenure, as Prime Minister made a promise for reservation of seats for women in Parliament and the State Assemblies in 1996, and Shri I.K. Gujral gave the idea, the form of a Bill. The Bill, as was introduced in the past, envisaged reservations of 181 seats in the Parliament for women. Since then, there has been a lot of debate on the provisions of the Bill which lapsed on the dissolution of the last Lok Sabha. It is being said that some political parties are having reservations on the whole concept of reservation for women, but this cannot be the guiding fact for providing reservation to them. Do we always take decision when there is a consensus?

Women constitute 50 per cent of our population. Reserving 33 per cent seats for them will be opening the doors of opportunity for political empowerment of half of the population. It will not only serve the cause of democracy as the Panchayati Raj institutions are doing at the gross root level, but will also go a long way in ensuing political equality through active participation of women from both urban and rural areas.

I, therefore, urge upon the Government to bring forth the Women Reservation Bill in this session itself and pass it.

Thank you very much, Sir. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Shri Jai Parkash Aggarwal, ...(Interruptions)...

DR. PRABHA THAKUR (RAJASTHAN): Sir, I would like to associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR (ORISSA): Sir, I would also like to associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

SHRIMATI N.P. DURGA (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, I would like to associate myself with it.

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY (ANDHRA PRADESH): Sir, I would also like to associate myself with it.

SHRIMATI PREMA CARIAPPA (KARNATAKA): Sir, I would like to associate myself with the Special Mention made by Dr. Alladi P. Rajkumar. However, I would like to make one correction. The idea of providing 33 per cent reservation to women was the brainchild of our late Prime Minister, Shri Rajivji. ...(Interruptions)... After that only, Mr. Deve Gowda, Mr. I.K. Gujral came...(Interruptions)...

SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: Shri N.T. Rama Rao introduced it in the Andhra Pradesh Assembly. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. ALLADI P. RAJKURAR: But in Parliament, it was brought forward during Shri H.D. Deve Gowda's tenure. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Shri Jai Parkash Aggarwal; ...(Interruptions)... Okay; that is all right. ...(Interruptions)... No; please there should be no discussion on that. ...(Interruptions)... Shri Jai Parkash Aggarwal.(Followed by 4m)




SHRI JAI PRAKASH AGGARWAL (NCT OF DELHI): Sir, through you, I would draw the attention of the House and the Government towards the urgent need to protect buildings and ancient architecture that exists in and around Chandni Chowk. Branching out into narrow Katras flanked by old but elegant buildings, imposing doorways and opulent kothis, is like taking a trip to a bygone era, a journey back to our "roots and culture". Many of the freedom fighters were residents of Old Delhi and, therefore, the area witnessed innumerable events related to freedom struggle.

The buildings have an exhibition of antiques such as doors and windows that are more than a century old. The intricate bylanes, its colourful shops, its historical monuments, its magnificent mansions, everything lays bare the city's secrets through its architectural script. Through the ages, Purani Dilli, 'a city of legends and stories', has acquired a distinctive identity for its commercial and cultural activities. Its hallmark is a genteel lifestyle that has withstood the test of time and retained its unique Ganga-Yamuna tehzeeb, the best of Islamic and Hindu etiquette. The peaceful coexistence of different faiths and cultures within its walls is a lesson in syncretic living worth remembering. The name, Chandni Chowk or the 'Moonlit Square', is still evocative of the romance and glory associated with a bygone age of grandeur.

Sir, through you, I would request the Government to devise ways and means to protect the ancient heritage of this area. (ends)

DR. FAGUNI RAM (BIHAR): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.


SHRI SURENDRA LATH (ORISSA): Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Union Government on the naxalite problem in Sambalpur and Devgarh districts of Orissa, which is increasing day by day. In the past one year, naxalites have attacked many places in the district and killed ten police personnel and innocent people. They have even snatched away four SLR rifles from the police.

Now, the naxalites are threatening and kidnapping the local businessmen for extortion and demanding huge ransom. A few days back they had kidnapped three Forest Officers. Sambalpur district is the worst naxalite-affected area of Orissa and naxalite incidents are taking place almost everyday. Due to lack of employment and education, local youth are also joining the naxalite groups.

The local police is not well-equipped; they don't have modern communication system or devices and modern equipment. They are not even trained to counter or assault naxalites in the region. A large percentage of the population in Sambalpur belongs to the SCs/STs who are uneducated and undeveloped. Sambalpur is a border district of Orissa and naxalites from neighbouring States are easily entering the district and running their activities without any control.

I would, therefore, like to request the Central Government to declare Sambalpur district as a National Naxal-Affected District. Sambalpur District should be immediately included in the Rashtriya Shram Vikas Yojana. Local police should be given proper training to counter Naxalites and should be fully equipped with arms and ammunition. Additional Central Paramilitary Forces should be deployed immediately in Sambalpur district to control the naxalite problem. (ends)

SHRI KRIPAL PARMAR (HIMACHAL PRADESH): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.




SHRIMATI SHOBHANA BHARTIA (NOMINATED): Sir, I would like to draw attention to the UN World Water Development Report prepared by the UNESCO, which shows India in a very poor light as far as managing its critical water resources is concerned.

The most depressing part is that India's water and sanitation sector is among the world's most corrupt. This means that ours is not a case of lack of resources, but an example of lack of management and foresight.

Our policy-makers must grasp this UN Report, which treats India as a case study of corruption. Our leaky taps and pipelines waste huge quantities of water and the Report reveals that 30 per cent Indians have to pay bribes for repairs. Another 12 per cent people had to pay bribes for new connections and 41 per cent had to pay bribes to get underpaid bills with the help of corrupt officials.

India is among the top ten of the world's water-rich countries. We have four per cent of world's free water resources. How can we then explain human suffering from thirst, droughts and a host of avoidable causes when our ecosystem offers enough water for everyone? If we don't take urgent corrective steps, water riots may become a reality.

Sir, the UN Report has brought to light rampant corruption in the management and provision of public amenities in India. What is required is not only a systemic overhaul, but as a first step, I recommend that the Government set up a high level enquiry to assess the findings and recommend steps to eradicate corruption in the provision of this important public utility. (ends)

SHRI JESUDASU SEELAM (ANDHRA PRADESH):Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member.

SHRI KRIPAL PARMAR (HIMACHAL PRADESH): Sir, I associate myself with the Special Mention made by the hon. Member. (Followed by 4N)