PREVIOUS HOUR

MP/PK/3N/4.00

ָ ֤ (֟) : ֱ ָ ֵ ֻ֟ ֲ֤ ֻ , ֋ ֲ֤ ָ ָ ׸ , ֓ , և ֓ , ? ױ Ӥ , ֮ 㴲և פ ָ, ߯ ֵ֟, ٻִֵ , ֯ ֤ ָ ׸ߕ merge ? 65 ָ ꮵ ֋, ? 㴲և פ ꅠ ֲ ױ ֻ ָ ֯ modernisation ִ ָ և , ױ ָ ׸ ײֻ ִ ֋ ױ ֯ ֿ և, ֮֟ ָ և, ꅠ ֯ ָ ̴߮ , ֲ֤֤ ָ ̴߮ , ֻ ָ ̴߮ ꅠ և , ֲ ֮ ִ ֻ, ֿ և, և ָ ! ß-ß פօ ß , ֙ ָ פ ֻ 㴲և פ ָ ֮ ֲֻ֟ ֻ , ֲֻ֟ ֙ օ ֻ , ֙ ָ 65 ָ ꮵ ֟ 㴲և ָ ָ second run-way ֮ ֯ ֬׮ ָ ֮ , ־ 㴲և ֮֮ פ ֯ ֮ ֻ ִֵ ׻֋ , ֯ ֮֮ 㴲և ָ ִ֤ , ֮֟ , ָ ׸ ו ָ ֲ ֮ , ָ ֮ second run-way ֮ ֲ ׻֋ 㴲և ӟ, ֮ ߴ֟ ִ ֻ, ָ ֋ 95 ̴߮ ֋, ֯ ִ֗֟ , ֻ ֻ ? ׻֋ և , ו֮ ֵ֟ , ߕ , ֛ ײִ֮֕ , ֛ , , , ֱ ָ ׸, , ֓ ֻ ֮ ß֮ , 126 ָ ֮֋ ֮ ֻ ׮ֵ ׸ ׻֮ ׸ , ̺ ׾֬ ...(־֮֬)....

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Please conclude.

ָ ֤ : ֮֟ -׾֬ ״ֻ֮ ֻ ֯ ׮־ ӡ , ֟ ߅ ָ ֮֯ modernisation ..(ִֵ ә) ..֯ ֢ ׮ֻ ֋ ...(־֮֬)...

ֵ ֿ Ͼֻ : ִֻ Ӥ ֱ ָ ֋, ֯ ֲ ?

ָ ֤ : ֯ ך Ͼֻ ߅ ֯ Ӥ ֻ, ? - ִ֮

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

ָ ֤ : ֯ ִ֮ , ִ ֯ ֢ ׮ֻ֮ ִ ֯ , ָ ... (־֮֬)...

ֳ֬ : ָ , ֮֯ 16 ״֮֙ ׻֋

ָ ֤ : ֵ?

ֳ֬ : ֵ֤

ָ ֤ : ֯ ׮־ ϱ , ִ , ֻ֟ Ӥ ו֋ ִ ֯ , ֓ , ֯ ֋ ֻ ֋, ֯ Ù ֮ ָ ָ ָ ׸ ָ ߙ ׸ , ֮ ײػ ֮֮, ֮ ֮֮... 2 פ , 2 㴲և , , ֡ , 97 ֮ ָ ׻ ֵ, ׻Ù , ָָ ָָ ִ ׻֋ ֣ Ӭ פ, Ӭ פ ִ ! ֯ ֣- Ӭ ֲֻ ֙ , ? ֮֯ ױ ֯ וִ ו֋ ָ߬ ֤, ו֮ ֮և , ߮ ָ ֋ , ָ֕ borrow , , ׾ ״ ֕ ׻֋ ׮ִֵ ֯? ֱ ֮ ֮֮֠ , ֱ - ֮֮ ..(ִֵ ә).. ߕ ֯? ׻֋ ֯ ׾֮֟ ..(ִֵ ә)... ֳ֬ , ֯ ߔ ֛ ֋, ׻֋ ֯ ׾֮֟ ֯ , ׸, ֟ ל, , ֟ , ӯע ָ ߻ִ , ֣, ֮ ֟ ִ֯ , ֮־֤(ִ֯)

(3O/ASC ָ )

ASC-PB/3o/4.05

׸ ־ָ (ָ™) : ֳ֬ , ָ , ևԮ ֲ ׾֤ ָ ϴ ֟ ֲ ָ ָ ָ ָ֕ ֮ פ-פ ֮֟ , ߠ ָ ֌ ֮֟ ָ ָ ֮֮ߵ ֤õ ߯ ֕ ָ ֟ Ͽ ֋ ִ֟ ֓׸ ׮ֳև , ֤֕ , ׻֋ ָ ֤֕ ߛ ֮ ׿ֿ ֟ ֟ ָ ֌ ֤֮ ...(־֮֬)..

ָ ֤ : ׸ , ״֮֙ -֡ , ֤֕ ָ ִ ֟ , ֤֕ ָ ׻ ֱ ִ ָ ׸ ꅠ ֟ ָ , ֛ ֋ ߅ ֟ , ׮ֻ ֲ, ָ ׸ ֓ֆ ָ ֯ ֤ ֻ ָ ..(־֮֬)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Tariqji, address the Chair please.

׸ ־ָ : ֕ ָ ָ ãן ה ֲ ־ ָ ٣ ׾ , ׮ֵ ݻֻև֮ ٣ ׾ ָ ״ , ָ Ùָ , ִ , ãן ֤֮ ָ Ùָ ֯ ָ ָ ן ֣, ׾ ֮ ָ, ו ו ֵ ֿ , ָ ßָ ָ ֋ ָ ٣ ן ו ֳ ֮ , ָ ....(־֮֬)... , ֵ֮ ָ þ߸ ֻ ָ þ߸ ָ ֋, ִ ָ ֋, ־ֿ ԇ֮ ־ֻ , ֟ ָ ׌ ֟ ׾ָ ָ ׸ ִ֟ ־ֻ ִ֟ , ־ֻ ֮֬ ָ ֮֬ ֋Ӆ ß֮ ָ ֯׸ , ֟ ׮ֵ ָ ֯׸ ֲִֵ և֮֕ , ִ ׾֤ ׮־ , ָ ׾ , ן և ֮ ִ֯ӣ և և , և Ӥ ؕ ָ ֻ ֕Ù ָ ֵ֮ ֵ ָ ֮ ִִ ָ ָ  ִ ׻֙ߕ ֮֜ ִ , ֟ , ׮־ , ӕ ֮ , ׾֬ ֱ ׾֤ ִֻ , ׻ ָ ֲ UPA և ָָ և ֠ ӡ ϱ ֙ , ׾ֻ ׾ֿ֮ ӡ ֮ , ֲ ׾ֻ ׾֋֮ ӡֵֻ ֱ ׸֟Ԯ ֵ (ֿ: 3P ָ)

NB/3P/4.10

׸ ־ָ (֟) : ִ ׾ ן և ֕ ֯ և ָև և , ו֮ ֕ healthy competition ׾ִ֮ ֛ ִֵ ֛-֛ ֯ן , ֛-֛ ײִ֮֕ , ֱ և-֕ Ԯ ֟ , ֡ ֟ , ֕ ָ ֵ ן ֕ ꆸ ״֛ ׌, ֛ ֻ֟ , և-֕ ֳ ֮ ׿ֿ ֲֻ֟ ߕ isolation ֮ , ׻ ߕ ִ ֮ օ ֮֟ ׾֬֋, ٣ ׾ ן , ֣-֣ employees technicians ִ , ָ ָָ agreement , ָָ ־֮֬ , ִ employees interests ߠ watch ֵ details ֮ פ ֯ ׾ßָ details ֋, ֯ ֟ ִ employees technicians job guarantee ָ ָ ־֮֬ ֵ ֵ ß פ ֋, privatisation ֲ ֋, ֟ : ָָ ֟ ֮ ֠ , Ӳև פ ֮֬ ֮ ׿ֿ ו ו ָ ֤ ָ ׸ ֤ ֮֬ , ֮֬ ֵ ָ ָ ֻ֯ , ָ ֱ פ Ӳև ָ ֬׮ , Ӥ ִ ׾֬֋ ֲֻ ֋, ׻ ָ ָ ß֮ Ӥ ו֮֟ ָ , ׮ֵ֤ infrastructure , ִ ֮֬ , ֋ ֋Ӆ

ֳ֬ , ֟ և , ִ֟ ӡ ִִ ֟ ׾ßָ ־ֲ ֟ ײֻ ï™ ָָ ߵ֟ ֱ ֮ ָ ٣ ׾ ן , ִ ֮ ׿ֿ ֮֬ ָ پ , ӯ ֋, ֟ ׿ֿ ָָ ָ ߯ ֟ , , ֓׸ ֟ , ֓և ٣ ׾ ֤ , ֳ ׾ , ׻֋ ֮ ֤֮ ־ֿ , ֤ ֮־֤ (ִ֯)

. . ֻ֮֕ ֿ (Ӭ Ϥ) : ֳ֬ , ֕ כ֮ , ָ ׮ֵָ ߛ Civil Aviation ֯ ӡ ָ ֤ ֟, ָ ֈ ִև ָ ֟Դ֮ ӡ ϱ ֙ , ײֻ ӡ ֙ ֲ ׯ֔ 2 ֻ ӡ ֮ , ֯ ֋, Indian Airports State Transport Bus Depots ֋ 3Q/AKG ָ ֿ:

AKG/3Q/4.15

. . ֻ֮֕ ֿ (֟) : ױ ֜ ֵ, և ß ֋, ֲ ָ ׸ כ ֟ , כ֮ ָև ֟ "50 ֻ پ","50 ֻ ֯ ֣", ֲ û ֟ , ֲ, ß֮ ֻ֟ פ 㴲և ԇ֮ ֺ , ֺ , և , ? ϱ , ָ ֯ ֮ ֯ ״ֻ ד֮ ָ ֲ ևև ֵ, և ֤ ִ 300 ֵ ӾÙ օ ֲ ֮ ӾÙ , ׻ֵ֟ ׻֋, ׸ ׻֋ - , ֮ 300 ֵ ֵ, 25 ָ ׸ ״ֻ ֕ ָ ֻ֟ , ֮ ִ ׯָ֙ օ ֤ ָ ׸ כ ו֮ , ׻֋ - ױ ֜ ֲ և Ù ׮ֵ ָ և ֵ ד֮, ֵ ד֮ , ֲ և ױ ֵ֤ ֮ ִ ״ֻ , ֲ և ֤, ו֮ 300 ֵ ֵ, ֻ֟ , ֲ 5,000 ֵ ֋, ִ ֮ ֮ ߱ , ֮ օ ד֮ ָ ִ֮ ָ , ֯ ֻ - ֯ ׻ ָ և ָև ֮ ֤ ֻ֟ , ֮ ֻ ֕ ֯ ׸ ևә ו֋, ָ ѕ , և ֻ ִ ֮ 50 ֻ ֯׸ ־֕ ... (־֮֬) ... ֲ ֻ ֮ , , ֯ ִ֟ , ֵ֟ Ù ֯ Ù ֤ ֯ ִ֮ , ֯ ׸֛ , ֲ ֯ ӡ , ױ Ù ֯ ֤ פ֋߅ ׻֋ ֕ և ֤ ׻֋ ֮ ָ ׻֋, ָ ָ ׻֋ 50 ֻ ֯׸ , ֯׸ ֈә ևә ָ և ָ ָ ׸ և ևә ָ ׸ ִ Ӿֻ և և ֻ ֋ ֮֯ ֲ և և פ ֕ ԇ֮ ִ ָ ױ ֻ֟ ׻֋ ևә ָ ׻֋ ׿ֿ ֟ ָ ָ և Յ ֮ ֵָ և ִ, וֵ ׻֋ ֵָ և ִ, ֲ ߔ ֛, ֮ ִ ׸֛ ֕ ׻ֵ֟ ׻֋, ָ כ֮ י ׻֋ ֮ ֤ ֟ ָ և ֮֟ ָ ֮ ֤ ֮ ָ ָ , ֲ ֻ ֋օ ֻ ָ ֲ ֋, ָ ֻ֟ , ֻ ֋օ ׸Ù ֟ , ֲ ֻ ֕ ֮ ׻֋, ָ י ׻֋ ו֮֟ ׻ֵ֟ ״ֻ֮ , ׻ֵ֟ ״ֻ֮ ֕ և ָև ֮ ֤ ֻ ֙ ֵ ֵ֟ Ù ֯ כ ֻ֓ ָ פ (3ָ ָ ֿ:)

3R/HMS-KSK/3.20

00 ֻ֮֕ ֿ (֟) : ױ ָ ֯ ׸ ׯևֻ ֮ ֺ ױ Ù ֟ , ׻֋ ָ ׸ , ֯׸ ־ ֯ ־֮Դ ״׮Ù , ֯ , ָ ֣ ֯ ִ և ִֻ֯ ׻֋ ו֮֟ ֺ , ֯

֕ ָ ֟ և , ֯ և ײֵ֟ ֟ ־֮Դ ֯ ֕ ־֮Դ ֯ ׸ ֵ֮ , ָ ׸ ִ פ, ֻ ִ ו֮֟ ֙ , ֮ ֮߅ ־֮Դ ו֮֟ ֙ , ֮ ָ ֙ ִ ׸ ׸ 50 ֻ پ ֈә ׻ , "50 ֻ ֯ ֣" ו ֜ ײֵ֟ ֟ ׻֋ ָ ױ ֮֮֯ ֯ ו֮֟ ִ ә ָ , ָ ֣ ָ ֲ֕ ߅ ָ ֣ օ ֕ ߮ ״ֻ ֯ ִ֮ 300 ֵ ֵ, ֮ ָ֮ Ù ױ ִ ֵօ ևӤ ֟ ָ ִ֮ ߮ ִֻ ֲ 300 ֻ ֻ֟ ָ ֻ ֻ֟ ? ׻֋ ִ ֮

ֳ֬ , ֯ ә ֕ ִֵ ָ , ׻֋ ָ ױ ֮ ֟ ֟ օ ֯ ß , ״׮Ù ֻ ֯ ָ , ֿ ֯ ָ ֣ ׸ כ ֣ ֻ֮ ִ Ӥ ֲ ֣ ֮ ߸ ֟ (ִ֯)

 

 

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): There are five speakers left. I would request each one of them to be brief and not take more than five minutes each. Shri Lalit Suri.

SHRI LALIT SURI (UTTAR PRADESH): Thank you, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to speak on two airports - Mumbai and Delhi. I must say that I am a great supporter of liberalisation, modernisation and disinvestment. Our country is moving forward and it is moving at a speed that we cannot afford to put a stop to it. We have to do everything possible to accelerate and give a push so that the country keeps on moving forward. I must say that with the present trend of tourism in this country, we are going at a speed with which we need a great deal of infrastructure support and the major infrastructure support needed in this country are the airports. I must say that our airports are in a mess. We have to move forward to make them some of the most modern airports in the world. How do we do that? The best way to do that is the way the Government is moving forward. They have to get the best people available - the best technicians, the best contractors, the best of operators to see to it that you are second to none in the world. Smaller countries, our neighbours -- whether it is Thailand, whether it is Malaysia, whether it is Indonesia, whether it is China, or for that matter, even Dubai and Sri Lanka -- have airports which put us to shame. That should not happen. (followed by 3s)

GSP-PSV/3S/4.25

֮ ֮ ̴֕ : , ...(־֮֬)... ָ , ָ ָ

SHRI LALIT SURI: How do we do that? The process of modernisation started on 14th October, 2003, and, they decided that they must move forward to modernise the airports, especially, Delhi and Mumbai Airports. When the UPA Government came in June, they followed the same principle and framed the rules and those rules were to put the things in motion and move forward.

I remember, in my first speech after the UPA Government took over, I congratulated my friend, Praful Patel, because I knew his vision. We had discussed this issue earlier and we knew what he had in his mind. It was very clear that he would move forward and make sure that two things do take place -- the Open Sky Policy which we were lacking, and, the other, modernization of airports, not only these two airports but all the other airports in the country. Sir, Tourism is one sector that not only gives you revenue but also gives you maximum employment that the country needs badly. For every ten lakh of rupees spent on Tourism, you employ 80 people, and, that is bigger and almost double the size of what you get in IT. Tourism earns a meagre amount of 5.5 billion for the country whereas our neighbour China gets 95 billion. So what do we do? Unless we improve our airports, we will be nowhere.

Let me give you some statistics. In Mumbai, we are expecting 20 million people by 2010, 30 million by 2015, 54 million by 2025 and over 100 million by 2040. In Delhi, passengers are expected to exceed 17.5 million in 2010, 25 million by 2015 and 85 million by 2040, and, that is the reason we have to move forward. With respect to the revenue that the Government is earning right now, for the year 2004-05, this figure is roughly Rs. 325 crores. Sir, if I recollect correctly when they went in for the tenders, for the bids, they did not expect more than 20-25 per cent revenue sharing. What have they got in return? It is almost 46 per cent in Delhi and about 38 per cent in Mumbai. What does this mean? This means that the Government is going to make more money than they expected from these two airports. How did this happen? This happened because they moved forward; they moved forward to give the best of the airports for these two cities and to get the best of the people who can operate and do the job. Sir, in doing this, there are one or two things that must be kept in mind and these are very important for these two airports. One, you have to look after the interests of the labour. Now, if that is not done, there is going to be a serious problem with the private operators. I personally suggest and I would request the hon. Minister that before he hands over, the clarity on the labour issue should be there. If it is not there, and, if for any reason, the private operator cannot get along, cannot move with them, or, cannot accede to their demands, there will be a serious problem, that is what we don't want at a time like this.

Sir, another problem has arisen and the things are in the court, for whatever reasons. I don't know what is going to be the outcome of the case. (Contd. by 3T-SK)

SK/3t/4.30

SHRI LALIT SURI (CONTD.): Nobody can predict. We can be sure that we are going to win. But, at the end of the day, we might lose. The perception, I am not saying that I believe, but the general perception is that when this was moving forward, there were certain things which we have changed midway, and that is the reason people have gone to court. I personally feel that I hope everything becomes absolutely favourable for the Government, because if that does not happen, we are going to be in deep, deep trouble, and that is what we do not know. I would like to ask the hon. Minister take this thing for a minute, supposing the judgement goes against us, for whatever reason, do we have a fall-back plan to move forward or not? If we do not have, I think, we should have, because nothing is certain and we cannot predict the judgement. If we did predict the judgement, we would have not courts. So, my request is that, I still hope and pray that everything is fine. But, if it is not, there should be a fall-back position and a plan to move forward. That is all I have to say. Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA (WEST BENGAL): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I rise to speak on this occasion because a number of very major issues of principles have been raised. Unfortunately, Mr. Dipankar is not here. He was emotional, but he did raise some basic issues which we must discuss freely and frankly in this House. His issue about procedural problems, I don't want to talk about. I hope the Minister will take those points into account and do whatever is necessary. He is mentioning about what happened in 1972, 1975 and 1995. This is also not relevant for me because things change, people change and the decisions also change. In fact, I was looking at the 2003 Budget discussion. I was trying to find out what was the position of my friends from the Left, from the CPM, at that time. I could not find anything in website. But, these are the issues which can be debated in a political forum. But, three points that have been raised seriously should be discussed. First of all, the Airports Authority is not privatised. The assumption that this particular decision is somehow weakening the Airports Authority of India is not quite correct. The Airports Authority has decided that two of its assets will be better managed and developed by giving it to a joint venture and in that joint venture they will have some share, 26 per cent, the rest would be contributed by private sector. It does not mean Airports Authority's giving up its own function in this particular place. It is the Airports Authority's way of developing these two assets. Now, this, to my mind, is a basic principle of autonomy of public enterprises. I want to raise this because in the Common Minimum Programme, it has been categorically stated that we are trying to preserve the autonomy of the public enterprises and autonomy of the public enterprises is such that there are certain decisions that a public enterprise will take regarding its investment, regarding its formation of joint venture, regarding its operation with respect to different assets which will not be discussed or considered by anybody other than the Board or the Authority unless there is a misuse of money or waste of resources. This is a particular problem that has been raised and that should be discussed here. And, if there is any reason why you feel that the Airports Authority is not autonomous, then, we should talk about how to give it autonomy. But, we should not question the decision of the Airports Authority of how to manage its own assets. I am raising this issue because unless we consider that, the whole idea of the Government, and in the name of the Government, MPs, or anybody else, interfering in the day-do-day functioning of the public enterprises will never stop. A decision has to be taken in this regard very categorically. (Contd. by YSR- 3u)

-SK/YSR/4.35/3U

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA (CONTD.): Now, is there any misuse of resources or loss of money? I looked at the numbers. Development and expansion of these two airports, these two assets, would cost Rs.14,000 crore. And what arrangements have been made? That the Airports Authority will not spend any money; it is not obliged to spend any money for capital expenditure or revenue expenditure. The Joint Venture Companies will raise money, will operate this for a concession period -- a long concession period. After the concession period, these two airports will come back to the Airports Authority. The Airports Authority is not giving them up. It is just that they are giving it to them for the concession period.

During the concession period, 45 per cent of the gross revenue in the case of Delhi and 37 per cent in the case of Mumbai will be taken away by the Airports Authority. Numbers are very important. If I have mistaken, I hope, Mr. Minister, you should be able to point out. This is in addition to whatever dividend the Airports Authority will get from the investment they make in the Joint Venture.

I don't think there is any possibility of charging that a misappropriation of finance or authority has taken place. I am not getting into the procedural aspects, but just this arrangement would point out that this is one way the Airports Authority is building up its two assets.

Are the workers' interests fully protected? Shri Sharad Yadavji raised this point again and again. As I see from the papers, for the first three years, all the workers will remain in the Airports Authority. After that, 60 per cent of them will remain with the Joint Venture Company and 40 per cent, if they wish to stay, will remain with the Authority with the full pay and benefits. I don't see these are any evidence of workers' interests being sacrificed. I want to point this thing out because if we really are worried about the Airports Authority's decision, this should be based on what exactly are the things that they are doing, not on any kind of ideological or past arguments for the creation of this Authority.

Another fundamental question is: why should private sector be called in for this development effort of the Airports Authority? Now, having private sector involved in this does not mean that we are giving it away. It is one way of doing things. And the time has come for us to see what exactly is the role of the private sector vis-a-vis the State sector in all commercial activities. Public sector resources are limited. Itis not just financial resources. Public enterprises or public sector technological resources, managerial resources, whatever resources are there, are limited. This should not be thrown away. If a particular function can be done as well by a private sector, if not better, then there is no reason why public enterprises or public sector should go into this operation.

I would submit, through you, to my friends here to discuss this. If it is possible to show that private companies can do as good a job, if not a better job, of managing, operating and investing in different airports, then the Airports Authority should do exactly that: allow them to do that and play the role of supervision and coordination. This is a way of public enterprises functioning in this new modern economy.

There was a time when all of us felt -- I should not say all of us, those of us who talked about socialism -- that the means of production should be owned by the public and, therefore, any increase in the industrial sector was considered to be a good thing. Those days are gone. We consider it necessary to establish at every point where public sector's functioning is important and is beneficial, private sector cannot do that. There are clearly defined areas where the benefits or social benefits are such that they cannot be captured by the market. There are some things where private enterprises will not go; where the total investment is so large that private enterprises will not go. These are the areas, social sectors like education, health, etc., and also several industries, infrastructure industries where public and private sector cannot come, where public enterprises should go. (Contd. by VKK/3W)

VKK/3w/4.40

SHRI ARJUN KUMAR SENGUPTA (CONTD.): I submit to you, Sir, there should be a discussion on this subject. We had not had the discussion on disinvestment and all this. (Time-bell) But there should be an occasion to go into this basic question: What exactly is the role that the public enterprises are supposed to play? Therefore, I would like to submit to you and to the Minister, please try if this experiment succeeds. I am quite certain that this experiment will succeed, if you take care of these procedural questions with the force I am talking about. Please generalise this. Come to Kolkata, the State I represent. Please see that the Kolkata airport is also developed in the same way. Come to other areas. Only then the Airports Authority should be able to coordinate, manage and supervise all the different airports that are being functioning. This is the way you can build the public initiative in the airport building. Thank you very much. (Ends)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Thank you Mr. Sengupta. Now, Shri Manoj Bhattacharya.

SHRI MANOJ BHATTACHARYA (WEST BENGAL): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, thank you very much. I stand here in support of this Short Duration Discussion, as raised by my friend, Shri Dipankar Mukherjee and in support of the points raised by Shri Dipankar Mukherjee. I should be absolutely clear. Sir, I have specific queries. I will not go into detailed discussion because Shri Dipankar Mukherjee has done it. I need not repeat those. Sir, nowadays, I am having a very bad experience. I must submit to you that travelling by air, particularly from Kolkata to Delhi, has become a horrendous experience for me and every time, I hear that either the aircraft is not being able to be put in the parking bay or the aircraft is not available, the aircraft is not there. Yesterday, I was travelling by IC-402. It was to take off from Kolkata at 8 p.m. I was informed that it would take off at 9. Then, when I left for the airport, I was informed over my mobile phone, in a very courteous manner, that it is going to take off at 9.45. When I reached the airport, I was informed that it would take off at 10. Then, after some fifteen minutes, I was informed that it would take off at 10.15. Then, ultimately, it took off -- I am thankful to the Indian Airlines that it took off -- at 10.35 and it could reach here at 12.30. However, Sir, this is a perennial problem. Why this problem is not being taken care of? Is it the problem of the runway? Or is it the problem of the aircrafts? Or are there some other administrative problems that are, once again, being experienced by us? I am experiencing this for almost twenty years. I remember, in 1986-87, I remember exactly, when we used to experience this sort of situation, when another gentleman from Maharashtra was heading the Civil Aviation Ministry. I do not know whether there is some correlation between these two or not. But, unfortunately, the Minister must be mindful; otherwise, in this flagship company of ours, Indian Airlines, there is a tendency. And naturally, the private airlines are taking advantage of this. The primary problem is, as I hear from the people on airports, there is no aircraft; some 4-5 aircrafts have been grounded and the situation has become very bleak.

Now, Sir, when I come to this point that has been raised by Mr. Dipankar Mukherjee, I must say that it's a misconception in the House. Perhaps it has been told by Shri Dipankar Mukherjee or I shall reiterate that we are all for modernisation of airports. We are not at all against the modernisation of airports and we are also for the development of the airports across the board in the entire country. All 126 or 127 airports must be developed; infrastructural development and modernisation must take place there. Sir, it is well known that these two airports, particularly the Mumbai and the Delhi airports, they earn the revenue for the Airports Authority of India. Now, let me understand what are the total assets of the Airports Authority of India. What are the total assets of the Airports Authority of India? When was it evaluated last time? What is the commercial value as per the market rate of the land that has been possessed by the Airports Authority of India? Mr. Minister, I am putting some pointed questions. You kindly remember that you have to answer these. My friend, Kapil Sibal, will not help you then. So, let us know, what is the exact valuation of the land that is being possessed by the Airports Authority of India as per the present market value. Whether it is the runway space. It is the problem of runways, as I hear. As a layman, I hear -- and you will be in a better position to tell us -- there is a problem of runways. (Contd. by MKS/3x)

MKS/MCM/4.45/3X

SHRI MANOJ BHATTACHARYA (CONTD.): Now, in Delhi and Mumbai-- about Santa Cruz, I have got the experience--there is no additional space to develop runways. When I went to Bangkok, I was told that there are 28 runways; I do not know whether it is correct or not. There are 28 runways. Can you develop in Delhi another three or four runways? There is a problem of the runways; that is why we waste our aviation fuel while taking rounds in the sky. They do not get space to land. Could you please tell us whether additional runways would be put in place through this programme of modernisation or is it only for creating a market in the airport lounge? I have seen that in Bangkok there is a huge market. According to me, development of market by private parties at the airport cannot be modernisation. There are many markets in all the cities. I do not require a market or luxurious duty-free shops in the airport. Do the private parties modernise the airports like this? There were many votaries; a very erudite colleague of mine, Mr. Arjun Sengupta, was telling about the private parties. Shall I give an example, Sir? From the Delhi Airport to the city, from the International Airport to the city, the Delhi-Gurgaon Expressway is constructed by one G.S. Construction. As you know, a shabby condition is there. They are delaying the process of completing the project by not less than three years. My friend J.P. Aggarwal was talking about it. My friend Mr. Kapil Sibal is from Delhi; he is a very honourable Member of Parliament; he knows it very well how important it is. For G.S. Construction, there is no penalty clause, and G.S. Construction can protract the job for a very, very long time. Nobody can handle it, and this is the private organisation. Mostly, the private parties handle the situation like this. Whether it is GBK or GMR, I do not have anything personal against them. Will you ensure that they will complete the job in time, as per the schedule, and as per the necessity of the Airports Authority of India? By securing 24 or 25 per cent of the venture, you do not secure that permission. Whether it is GBK OR GMR, incidentally, GBK is also responsible for Bangalore. Bangalore Airport is being constructed by....(Time Bell) Sir, I am just concluding. Bangalore plus Mumbai - GBK; Hyderabad plus Delhi - GMR. So, private monopolies are created. However, I am not objecting; they are competent enough. But, in the process, I would urge upon the hon. Minister to go through the entire process and see to it that the purpose of the Airport modernisation really takes place. Otherwise, our explanation for having a modern airport will be simply a daydream, it will be a futile exercise to discuss it over here, and I am sure, Sir, that we will not interfere in the autonomy of the public sector undertakings. Neither are we talking in contravention of the NCMP, nor is there any contravention. We want that the private sector undertakings must be strengthened further, but this is not the way to strengthen them further when the AAI was competent enough. DMRC could have done this wonderful job. In Delhi, DMRC has not been given a chance. Why is it that private parties in collaboration with foreign companies... (Time bell)... Sir, I am concluding. Sir, with these words, since the time is not in my favour, I am concluding. Thank you, Sir. (Ends)

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (TAMIL NADU): Sir, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak. Sir, I want to have a specific answer from the hon. Minister. Does privatisation, in his view, mean development? On the contrary, the opposition to privatisation by the hon. Member, Mr. Dipankar Mukherjee, is anti-development. I was thrilled when I read a book called "Asia Raising". It predicts that in the year 2005, the Asian giants, both China and India, will be super powers. And the book says that India has an edge because it has a vibrant democracy and an independent judiciary. China, it is reported, in the year 2003, received over 53 billion dollars as Foreign Direct Investment.

(Contd. by 3Y)

TMV-GS/3Y/4.50

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (CONTD.): On the contrary, India received only 4.3 per cent. China's growth rate is more than us; their literacy rate is more than us; their Internet user rate is more than us. They have 239 telephones per thousand, whereas in India it is only 46 or 49. When this kind of growth is projected in the case of China, what is happening to India? Why is the growth rate is so low and poor, as far as India is concerned? Will privatisation solve this problem? That is my question. The hon. Minister has to answer this.

Sir, I understand that there is not 100 per cent privatisation in China also. There privatisation is extensively happening only in the case of small firms. As per the book called "Privatisation in India - Challenging Economic Orthodoxy" by one Ram Mohan, there is not 100 per cent privatisation in China. I don't know whether it is correct or not. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether privatisation is just for competing with China. The Beijing and Shanghai Airports, which have been mentioned by many hon. Members, were modernised only after privatisation. Why is this privatisation? I can't forget the whopping cost of public administration, which was reported to be Rs.1,53,000-Rs.1,54,000 crores two years ago. It may be much more than that now. What is the reason? Is it the whopping cost of public administration?

Sir, the Minister, when the employees of the airports went on agitation, promised that there would not be any retrenchment. I am very happy about it.

Sir, will privatisation of these two airports, Mumbai and Delhi, alone solve the problems in this country? I feel that decongestion of these airports is possible only by developing the other airports, both metros and non-metros. There are ailing airports. They are crying for development. As per the Airports Authority of India Report of last year, Chennai Airport has recorded a high rate of growth, both in domestic and international traffic. As per the Report, there is an increase of 23.7 per cent in the passenger traffic. The domestic passenger traffic constitutes 29.2 per cent of that. The aircraft movement is 19.5 per cent. But the expansion of Chennai Airport is not taking place. There was an announcement that 500 acres of land were to be acquired with the help of the State Government. But in The Hindu, today, I saw a report that a massive agitation was going on because the acquisition would dislocate 25,000 human settlements or houses. I don't know whether that figure is correct. What is the Minister going to do with regard to this? Decongestion of Mumbai and Delhi can take place only by developing the airports like Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and Kolkata. I understand that 90 per cent of the international travellers land in Mumbai out of sheer compulsion because they don't have proper connecting flights or direct flights to other cities in India. Is that true? I also understand that 30 per cent of the international tourists who visit this country visit southern part of India, particularly, Tamil Nadu. They don't have direct flights connecting Chennai. Madurai is nearer to Colombo and Singapore. Madurai has to be developed. It will decongest Chennai. (Contd. by 3Z/VK)

VK-SC/3Z/4.55

SHRI R. SHUNMUGASUNDARAM (CONTD): Therefore, I appeal, through you, Sir, to the hon. Minister, let him not focus on these two airports alone; let him not exhaust all his resources just on these two airports alone. Thank you. (Ends)

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, we can see nobody from the Opposition side, particularly from the BJP. It has not happened for the first time. It is the second time when it is happening. They have been obstructing the proceedings of Parliament so many times. The whole country has been observing it. What type of interest are they taking in the proceedings of the House when such an important issue is being discussed?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Shri Ram Nath Kovind has come.

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Sir, only one Member has just entered.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): At least, one has come.

THE MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND MINISTER OF

OCEAN DEVELOPMENT (SHRI KAPIL SIBAL): Sir, we want the Opposition to be both effective and participative. Therefore, we are a little concerned about this.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: But I cannot direct the Opposition to do so.

SHRI KAPIL SIBAL: I am not saying that. It is just a matter of record. It must show on the record how participative they have been because it has not happened for the first time.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Sir, this is also for the first time that when such an important debate is taking place, the major Opposition Party is not participating in the debate. This is what I was trying to explain when I said that this was their idea which has been mooted. ֕֯ ֮֯ ֯ ָ , ֮ ,

This Short Duration Discussion, which I have initiated, has nothing to do with the Opposition. The signal which is going is that here is one of the issues where Opposition and the Ruling party are on the same line.
THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Dipankarji, it is up to them whether to speak or not.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Since he has raised it, that is why I have pointed it out. It is a continuation of the policy which has been run by them.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: That is okay. But I am saying that it is up to them whether to speak or not.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: These are rare occasions where on an important issue the Opposition does not participate. Demarcation is very clear and I am happy. That is why I wanted to bring a voteable motion here. Then this whole thing would have been clear. (Interruptions). I wanted to bring a voteable motion here. When I brought it, an assurance was given. Had it been a voteable motion, this would have been clear in numbers. I would like this side and that side to vote together against this motion, in spite of our opposition. That purpose has been served.

SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Sir, here I object to his assumption. Whatever we have to say, we are saying, our party is saying. But our objection is, there is nobody from the Opposition. This is a constructive Opposition we are seeing today! Let him not link it. He may be having grievances. Sir, we are presenting our case. He has also presented his case. Now it is for the nation to see. But don't blackmail us by saying that the entire thing is going out of the way. (interruptions).

..ֻ֮֕ ֿ : ״ֻ߳֟ ..(־֮֬)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): That is all.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Sir, I am so happy. He has a very clear mind. I was trying to explain it because I found that there was no speaker form the Opposition side. That is the point which is very clear. (Interruptions).

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: I am not permitting it. (Interruptions).

..ֻ֮֕ ֿ : ߋ ָ֙ ֠ * ..(־֮֬)..

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. (Interruptions).

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THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: Please resume your seat. (Interruptions).

ָ ֤ : ָ, ֛ߋ ָ

---------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (PROF. P.J. KURIAN): Dipankarji, you can, of course, observe that many of them are absent. But you cannot draw an inference from that and make a statement here. So, that is not correct.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Sir, it is not a question of inference. It is a fact.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: That is a fact. It is on record. But nothing more than that. Why they are absent or what is the reason for their absence, these are inferences. Don't go into that.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: These are not inferences. Sir, if you go through my speech, I have said that this whole proposal was initiated by them and they had brought that amendment Bill in 1994-95. (Interruptions).

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: No discussion. Your point is over.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: Where is the inference? It is fact. It is their brainchild. It is Vajpayee's ...(Interruptions).

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN: You have made all your points. Please take your seat.

SHRI DIPANKAR MUKHERJEE: There is no inference. It is a factual position.

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