SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD): By saying that I am sorry that I was not here in the House when this matter was taken up. This matter was taken up in the Lok Sabha also and I was attending to the debate in the Lok Sabha. It is humanly impossible for an individual to be in the two Houses at one and the same time. That was my difficulty. All the same I express my regret. This House has always been kind to me, very nice to me, and I remember during last Session when I was not able to speak, they postponed all my Questions. When I am a Member of this House, when this kind of kindness is shown to me, it would not have been possible for me to deal with this House in a different manner and in an indifferent manner. So, I start with that, Sir.

Sir, I appreciate that the hon. Members have expressed their concern about what has happened in Jammu and Kashmir -- Udhampur and Doda districts. It is quite natural for all of us to feel for the lives, which have been lost, and which have been unnecessarily put an end to. We all would like to condole the deaths of these persons. One or two hon. Members in the House said that the Government did not condemn these kinds of incidents. We all condemn these kinds of incidents. I was in that area, the Defence Minister was in that area, and we condemned in that area itself by saying that these kinds of inhuman acts should not have taken place. We do condemn in the House also. We cannot appreciate what has been done by them. The innocent people have died and nobody can appreciate it. We can only condemn and we would like to condemn in this House also. In the other House the debate went on for a pretty long time. In this House also, the debate continued for nearly three to four hours. I should say that by and large the hon. Members have not politicised this issue -- by and large, I would say. They have expressed their concerns and they would certainly like to know what has been done to help the surviving members of the victims, what is the policy of the Government of India and how we are going to deal with this issue with the cooperation of our neighbouring countries also. These are some of the important issues. At a time in media certain reports appeared and because of that some of kind misapprehensions have developed in the minds of the Members and others also. And this occasion gives an opportunity to dispel these misapprehensions on redeployment or reduction of the Forces over there, demilitarisation or redrawing of the boundaries and all those things. So, this is an opportunity to deal with it, Sir. First of all, I would like to deal with what is the position today. I have given the papers, copies of which have been circulated to the hon. Members. Why I have given these papers and why I have kept these papers on the Table of House is that it may not be possible for me to read out four or five pages. They give the information. But what do these papers indicate? These papers indicate that since 2001 up to 2006 gradually the terrorist activity in Jammu and Kashmir has dwindled, has declined, has come down. (Contd by 4L)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): Now, just a glance on the graph would show whether they have come down or not. Then, there is a chart which shows how many incidents took place, how many members of the security forces were killed, how many civilians were killed, how many terrorists were killed. These figures also go to indicate that there has been a steady improvement in this situation. Nobody is claiming that terrorism is not there and it is fully, totally controlled. That is not the stand of the present Government. That was not the stand of the previous Government. But the figures shown indicate that gradually it has been possible for all of us to take steps, to control the terrorist activities over there and this question was raised, every now and then, on the floor of the House. We were asked that, 'you have been making promises. Have you fulfilled the promises you made on the floor of the House?' Very respectfully we have submitted that it has been possible for us to combat and control to some extent the terrorist activities going on in different parts of our country. In Jammu and Kashmir it has dwindled, in North-Eastern States it has dwindled and in the States which are affected by Naxalism also has dwindled. So, it shows and I said it in the other House and I would like to say it here also that if something good happens, one Government should take the credit for it. If something good happens in the period of the previous Government, the credit shouldn't go to the previous Government alone. Something was done by the Government which preceded to that Government and because of that something good happened and if something good is happening today, I am willing to say that it is happening not only because of our policies, but because of your policies also. That does not mean that we have not changed our policies. That does not mean that we have not modified our policies. We have not improved upon our policies. We are assessing the situation as the Government of India, not as the Government of a party. We are assessing the reality, which is prevailing in Jammu and Kashmir or North-Eastern States or in other States. That has to be borne in mind. Sir, I have given four pages information on the incidents, which have taken place since 1993. In Doda also many incidents have taken place. In Udhampur also, incidents have taken place, in Rajouri area also incidents have taken place -- and what do they indicate? They indicate that since 1998 up to 2004, nearly 37 incidents took place in which people belonging to a particular section of society were killed. That means that area is vulnerable. I am not saying this to point an accusing finger at the previous Government but that area is vulnerable and some people have designed to divide the society and to create a cleavage among different sections of the society and with that help the terrorist activities. Fortunately, for us, I must say, that the people have not fallen a victim, have not accepted their design. They have not fallen to this kind of design. They have risen above a particular level in India, whether it is in Banares, whether it is in Delhi. Not only here but in Doda but in Udhampur also people have risen above the ordinary level of human beings. They have said, the Muslim brothers and Hindu brothers joined hands to condemn what has happened over there. They joined the processions and when I went there they came to me and they told me that we do want to live here. Give us the strength, give us the weapons, give us the force and we will protect ourselves and we will live here. (Contd. by NBR/4M)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): They were not belonging to only one section of the society. They were belonging to all sections of the society. This indicates that majority of the people in Doda and also in Udhampur did realise that there were people who were trying to see that they quarrel between themselves and they were not allowing them to succeed in their designs. And this is one of the most important things.

I have given the papers. My intention is not to say that this has happened so this can be allowed to happen now. This cannot be our intention. But, every now-and-then, we are asked, 'What is your progress? You are making promises. Is there any improvement?' It is just to indicate that improvement is there. Maybe, this improvement is not fully satisfactory to all of us. But, to say that there is no improvement is not the correct position. We shall have to accept that there has been an improvement, a perceptible improvement. There is 22 per cent improvement, 18 per cent improvement, 50 per cent improvement and 55 per cent improvement. There is 55 per cent improvement in infiltration. There is 22 per cent in killings. There is 18 per cent, again, in killings of civilians and all those things. It is only to indicate that I have given these papers and I do think that the hon. Members will use them for whatever purpose they want to use. This is the information given to me. I have collected it, tabulated it and given to the hon. Members for their use, not to point an accusing finger at anybody.

One of the questions raised here is, 'What has been done?' Not in this House, but in the other House. But, there were certain other things which were raised.

Very rightly, a suggestion was made of the Village Defence Committees. They wanted to know whether there are Village Defence Committees, whether they were given weapons and is there any other help given to them, etc. That was the kind of caution which was raised here. But, in the other House, it was asked what kind of assistance and help given to the victims and the members of the families of victims and all that. I seek your indulgence just to readout something. It is only one or two pages. I would like to read that. It is not a part of the information circulated. It is different. Sir, nine injured persons were airlifted from Kulhand and brought to Jammu, given free treatment and all have survived and one was treated locally at Doda. This is one information. Police post with forty personnel on the spot was established. It was established there only. Formation of the Village Defence Committees, Sir, 85 Village Defence Committees have been formed with 605 members in the Tehsil of Doda where these incidents took place and an equal number of rifles have been distributed among the constituted Village Defence Committee Members after giving them on the spot training. Then, in village Kulhand, district Doda, 44 VDCs, comprising of 113 Village Defence Committee Members have been constituted, given on the spot training and the same number of rifles have been distributed. These are the new Committees which have been constituted in that area. It does not mean that there were no Committees existing before. I had a discussion with the hon. Chief Minister. He was telling me all the time, 'We have these committees. We have given them the weapons and we have some sophisticated weapons with us in our stores and we would like to give these sophisticated weapons like AK-47s also to them.' He was also telling me that he would like to give some more money to each of the volunteer who was protecting the village and the people over there. He was suggesting that nearly Rs. 500 or Rs. 1,000 should be given to them. That means, there are Committees in which there are people who are working. If something more was required to be done, the hon. Chief Minister is looking into it and he is likely to do it.

Then, a special recruitment drive of youth is being undertaken by the J&K Police so that the recruits are trained and posted in the same area to provide full security to the inhabitants and avoid such incidents in future. Now, this is a step which is being taken. Over and above this, the CRP is going to recruit 3,000 men and officers. The SSB, another paramilitary force, is going to recruit 2,500 men.



SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): ... and five India Reserve (IR) battalions are given to them. Five thousand men and officers will be recruited. In this fashion, 10,000 young men will be recruited. They would be attracted away from the terrorist groups. They would be inducted into the police force. That will help them.

(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)

So far as distribution of ex gratia compensation is concerned, rupees five thousand in cash and a cheque of rupees ninety-five thousand, that means rupees one lakh, have been given to the next of kin of the deceased in their respective residences; rupees five thousand, in cash, have been paid to each of the injured; a ration, free of cost, of 18 quintals of atta and 4.5 quintals of rice was immediately distributed to the deceased families. A list of orphan children of these areas, along with their case papers, providing Rs. 800/- per month scholarship, has been prepared and submitted to the National Foundation for Communal Harmony. They would be given this. A pension of Rs. 500/- per month to the widows of Khulkhan area has been sanctioned by the Deputy Commissioner of Police. Restoration of electricity, drinking water, constructing roads and temporary helipad, all these things have been done. But I am not going into all these details. It is not necessary for me. But the impression something created is, nothing is done; no compensation is given, no committees are set up, no medical help is given. That is not correct. That is why I read all these things to the hon. Members of this House.

Sir, what is the policy? Very rightly, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi said that let us have a clear-cut policy to deal with it. I would like to say that we do have a policy. The previous Governments had policies, the Congress Government had policies, the Governments which were formed by other parties had policies, the NDA Government had a policy, and we too have a policy. It is not that those policies are continued without any modification. Wherever it was required to be modified, the Governments had modified those policies, and they have done it. But we do have a policy. To come to the conclusion that we do not have a policy, is not very correct. Maybe, the policy, which accepted by a particular Government, may not be acceptable to other political parties. And, they would say that the policy should have been different. That kind of things they can say, but there is a policy. Now, what is the policy that is suggested? If I understood the speeches made by the hon. Members on the floor of the House, today, is: The policy is, if you have to talk, talk, but you must act also; and, the third point of the policy is that if you have to have a dialogue with the neighbouring countries, do have a dialogue with the neighbouring countries, but, then, be vigilant and don't lower your guard. It is also stated that you do obtain cooperation of the people living in that area. These are the elements of the policy. We are talking to them. We have said that anybody who abjures violence will have an opportunity to talk to the Government of India on any issue he wants to. Whatever he raises is not always not binding on the Government of India. But if he abjures violence, we will talk. Now, there are political parties, there are members of intelligentsia over there, and we have been talking to them. When I went there, I had the opportunity of talking to nearly 40-50 groups of persons.

(Contd. by 4o -- VP)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): Now, here, they came in groups and they did talk to me. At least, 30-40 groups of people came to me and talked to me. Later on the Huriyat said that they would like to talk to the Prime Minister and others also. So, they were invited here and they did talk to the Prime Minister, not once but two times. And, then, it was suggested that let there be a round table conference. A round table conference means let the people, holding different views, come together and express their views in front of each other. And when the views were expressed in front of each other, they could find that they have their own views and those views, sometimes, are identical, sometimes, they are not identical. This was realised in that meeting and again it was suggested that let us have one more round table conference. We are going to have a round table conference and the hon. Prime Minister is going to attend it. There we are inviting the people belonging to different sets of opinion and they would be able to participate in that talk and in that discussion. But when we talk, it does not mean that whatever they suggest is rejected or whatever they suggest is completely, totally, absolutely, accepted. That is not the policy. Whatever is acceptable, we accept and whatever is not acceptable, we do not accept.

Now, as far as augmenting is concerned, let us understand that as far as the international border is concerned, it is guarded by the BSF. As far as the LoC is concerned, it is guarded by the Defence Forces. As far as different areas are concerned, there is the Army, the paramilitary forces, and the State Police is also there. They are looking after all these areas and they are trying to do it. So, we are in the process of training, expanding the State Police, giving them the equipments that they need, the training that they need and making them strong to handle it. While doing it, we are not withdrawing our paramilitary forces or the Army from that area. But, we are strengthening them over there and allowing them to do it.

So, we are strengthening our intelligence collection agencies also. There was a statement made by one of the hon. Members that intelligence is very important in this. Yes, it is important. But we do not get actionable intelligence all the time. That is the difficulty. We get the intelligence, but not actionable intelligence. You do not know at what place, in what fashion the attack would be done and so you cannot be ready at that place, at that time. That is the difficulty. That intelligence has to be collected by the local people and they are trying to do it.

Now, we are trying to act, whenever it is necessary, and act effectively. If the number of incidents has come down, if the number of killings has come down, if the number of persons who are injured has come down, that is because of the action taken, because of the vigilance of the paramilitary forces, the Army, the State Police also, the policies of the State Government as well as the policy of this Government. There is no denying about that and I have given the papers in your hands, you can yourself assess whether what I am stating is correct or not.

The third thing is to negotiate. Now, the previous Government also did negotiate. Now, the leaders of the previous Government did go to Pakistan, they came back and then some incidents happened. Kargil happened and those things happened. We are not going to say that because that happened, we are not going to negotiate. They did negotiate, and we are also negotiating with the leaders of the Governments of our neighbouring countries. I am sure that they are saying that they will not allow the terrorist activities to continue. On the floor of the House, sometimes, we are asked that these kinds of statements are made, but then, the terrorist camps are not dismantled. Now, how do we take their statements on these points and accept their statements on these points? How can we rely upon them? It is very difficult to say that not relying is correct or that relying is correct. It is a fact that on other territories of the neighbouring countries, some camps are there. (Cont. by 4P/PK)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): But it is also a fact that majority of the people in India are opposed to terrorist activities, and majority of the people in our neighbouring country are also opposed to the terrorist activities. It is also a fact that in India we are realising that it is the responsibility of the Government to control and combat terrorism. In the same fashion, in the neighbouring countries also this kind of realisation has dawned and they are trying their best. It was only a few days back I was invited to attend a conference of the Home Ministers of the SAARC countries in Dhaka, and, there, the Home Ministers of our neighbouring countries were present. We did discuss this and one of the things which we arrived at was that terrorism does not recognise whether the victim belongs to one country or another country. Terrorists have their own designs and in order to see that their designs are fulfilled, they are likely to attack anybody; anybody from a neighbouring country or anybody from a country on the soil of which they are functioning, or, to which they belong. That is why it was realised and it was said by most of the Ministers who attended the conference that terrorism is a crime against humanity. It is not a crime against a citizen of a country, it is a crime against humanity, and it has to be controlled, and, in that, every country has to cooperate. Now, there was a decision taken in that conference. That decision is not going to solve the entire problem as such, but it is, certainly, going to help us to improve upon our capacity to control and combat terrorism in our country as well as in the neighbouring country. So, we are continuing with that. There were talks held bilaterally between ourselves and the neighbour on the Western side, neighbour on the Eastern side, neighbour on the Northern side, neighbour on the Southern side, and, then, this is going on. So, this is our policy. If this is not a policy, then, what is a policy? We are not saying that this is the only policy which can be adopted by us. We would be very, very happy if the hon. Members of this House suggest to us that this policy of yours, probably, is not correct; you correct this policy. We would not say that 'no, this cannot be done." Either we persuade them or they can persuade us and we would be very happy. I know that in their hearts of hearts it is not politics they are trying to do, but terrorism is a menace against humanity, and they are trying to deal with it in that manner in our country and other countries also. If that is their intention, we would be only happy to receive the suggestions from them. One of the suggestions given in the other House was to strengthen the Village Defence Committees. It is a good suggestion, and may I tell you that when I met the hon. Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, first thing he told me was, "I am going to strengthen". One doesn't know the topography of that area. There are hillocks, valleys and they do not have the inhabitations as we have in this part of our country. There are four houses at one place and, then, at a miles distance there are other four houses. Slope is there, peaks are there. You shall have to provide protection to these scattered houses which are established in the valley, on the peaks, on the slopes and all those things. That is why the hon. Chief Minister was very clear in his mind when he said that he wanted to strengthen the Village Defence Committees. And, this was exactly the suggestion given by the leaders sitting on the Opposition side. I was happy to tell them that this is what the Chief Minister thinks, and this is how he wants to deal with it and we are going to help. He said, "I have the weapons. I have the youngsters who are willing to do it, and I am going to do it." We are also allowing him to do that, and this is exactly what is being done. There are a few points which were raised. Now, what were those points? Are you going to withdraw the forces? The hon. Defence Minister was in Doda and he did say that it is not a question of withdrawing the forces when these kind of activities are going on. This is the policy of the Government of India. Now, forces need not be there if it is peaceful. (Contd. by 4Q/PB)


SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (CONTD.): If that area is peaceful and tranquil, it is not necessary to put them there. But if it is not tranquil and peaceful, and if there is a danger to the life of the people, there is no question of withdrawing the Forces without taking into account this situation also. Sometimes, Sir, these Forces are redeployed. They are moved from one place to another place, depending on the requirements of the Forces in that area. That is not withdrawal; that is a redeployment.

Now, there is a question of demilitarisation. I am happy that in this House that question was not raised extensively by the hon. Members. But it was mentioned once or twice. Is there going to be demilitarisation? Well, this question, they themselves know in their heart of hearts, that whether the demilitarisation can take place in the situations in which that area finds itself and we find ourselves or not. Let there be no doubt on this point. But if a peaceful situation is prevailing over there, tranquillity is there, well the question of having the Forces or not having the forces can be considered in those circumstances after considering those things. So, there should not be any misgiving on this point.

Now, it was also said that the Parliament passes certain kind of Resolution, and that Resolution should be binding on us. Well, it goes without saying. Whatever has been decided by the Parliament, unless it is amended, modified, it shall be binding on the Governments, and there cannot be any two opinions on that. It doesn't mean because of the Resolution, some action is going to be taken and some different kind of situation will be there. The intention and the spirit of the Special Resolution will be borne in mind, and we will stick to it. But if anything else has to be done, it cannot be done at the back of the hon. Members without informing them, and let there be no misapprehension on that point.

In my opinion, the most important thing which is happening in our country is that majority of the people are for peace and tranquillity, opposed to terrorism, opposed to violence, opposed to bloodshed, opposed to maiming and injuring the innocent persons and killing the innocent persons. That is the real strength. But there are some people in the society who have their axes to grind, who are in certain kind of trade and business of taking narcotics, weapons and all those things from place to place, and they are interested in continuing these things. And, it is the responsibility of the civilised portion of the society to oppose these kinds of people. I think all of them, they may not openly come out of their houses and say that do these things, but in their heart of hearts, they want that, and when they want it, it becomes the responsibility of the Government to do it, and we do have the wherewithal required for it. People can give us the pinpricks, people can harm us, injure us, but they cannot overpower us. And, it is not possible to be done. Now, let there be no doubt in anybody's mind that this can be done with India.

The most important thing is, what is happening in our country. People are suffering, and yet they are behaving in a wise manner. Religious places are attacked. Some section of the people killed, belonging to different sections of the society -- not one section of the society -- and yet the others are wise-enough; and they know that if they react to it and do something in response to what is being done, the terrorist has succeeded, and the wise people in our country have not allowed it. Fortunately for us, the politicians, the political parties, by and large, also have been careful in not allowing this thing to happen, and it is the real strength of ours, and we will depend on that strength. (Contd. by 4r/SKC)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): I need not say anything more than this. We have improved the situation; it is not totally under control, but it has improved, and we will continue to make our efforts and also keep the House informed about it. But if, in a country like ours that has a population of one billion, with different kinds of people living at different places, and different kinds of attitudes prevailing, some of these things happen, we definitely feel sorry. We are unhappy about it. We would not like to see these things happen. And yet, we would not be cowed down by them and we will not throw our hands up and say that we would not be able to do anything. Thank you.(Ends)

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I wish to seek clarification on some points.

Sir, the hon. Home Minister has given us an authenticated document. Here, if you just look at page 1, the estimated number of infiltrators entered between 2001 and April 2006, comes to 7386. Out of this, you say that infiltrators killed during the process of infiltration are 953. Therefore, there remained a balance of 6433. In the next page, you say that infiltrators killed are 7276. What I understand is, out of the total estimated infiltrators entered, 7276 have been eliminated. So, only 112 infiltrators remain in that area. That is the meaning of these tables. If you look at Table 1, on page 1, and count the number of estimated infiltrators, it comes to 7386. Then you say, the number of terrorists killed in bids foiled, is 953. It means that out of those 7386, 953 were killed and the remaining 6433 remained alive. On the next page....

SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: That is the actual infiltration.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: If you take the total estimated number of infiltrators, the total figure from 2001 to April 2006, comes to 7386.

SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: That is the estimated number of infiltrations, number of infiltrations foiled, and terrorists killed in the bids. Now, these are the fresh infiltrations.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: It does not matter. The number of infiltrators in 2001 was 3545 and the number of terrorists killed was 224. So, there was a balance of 3000 and odd. Similarly, if you add all these, from 2001 to 2006, the total number comes to 7386. Out of this, you say that the number of terrorists killed was 953. So, the balance is 6433. Again, on page 2, you talk about 'trends of violence in Jammu & Kashmir'. Then the number of terrorists killed is 7276. I mean to say, therefore, that there is a balance of only 112 according to you.

SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: It is not like that. I shall explain.

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Sir, I mean to say that a large number of terrorists have been killed. A large number of those terrorists who have been killed might have been living from earlier days, or, might have come now. But the figures that you give, from 2001-2006, in both these Tables, give us an impression that out of 7386, the number of people killed amount to something like 7276. There is a balance of only 112 remaining and so, it should be very easy to eliminate them. That is the first point.

Then, there is a spate of disguised terrorists, because now, entry into India is very easy. A small chit from the District Commissioner in Muzaffarabad would allow people to enter into India. How do you check whether they are terrorists or not? They can come and remain here. So, I have certain things, which I want to bring to your notice. Let us know the exact status of the terrorists present in this country according to the information received by you. There may be some others about whom information may not be available with you, but let the House know the quantum of infiltrators who are operating in that area and also those who might have sneaked into different parts of the country, where they can create the desired trouble that they want to create. That is one point. (Contd. by 4S/KSK)


DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI (CONTD): Secondly, just these figures were given about 2001, but there has been a large number of infiltrators coming and killings taking place between 1990 and 1992 to this time. That is the time when the exodus of Kashmiri Pundits was going on and a large number of violent and terrorist activities were continuing. That has also to be taken into consideration in order to know the trend and in order to know the method of operation of these terrorists.

Thirdly, how do you ensure that those terrorists, who were infiltrated in this country, have not made centres in different parts of the country? It is not only that they are not only confined now to the Doda area or to parts of Jammu and Kashmir. Many of them have gone outside that area and are creating serious trouble for the country. That has also to be taken care of. I think the Ministry would be careful in dealing with them and also keeping the House informed about it.

Then, you have said about the neighbouring countries. With all humility, do you really believe our neighbouring countries? How many times, have they said that they are doing this, they are doing that, and they are helping us? I don't think as for me, I may be excused, but whatever little I know of the history of that neighbouring country and their method of operation, I think that they should not be taken on the face value. When they say, "We are dealing with the terrorists, we also do not want terrorists to operate even in our country.", let us remember that they are the originators of terrorism, at least, in this part of the world and the terrorists, who are now free from their other activities, are now being easily transported to this country to continue with those activities. So, I must say that the Government does honestly believe in what those neighbouring countries are saying. I think it is good to say, "Yes, hello, hello", but the Government should be clear in the mind that these countries have a dual policy. They may say, "Yes, we do not want to allow terrorism to grow." But, they continue to do it. And, that is the point that I would like the Government to ensure the House and the nation that you take care of this and do not fall an easy prey to their tactics.

Then, as I said, this killing of Suryanarayan now it has been the second by the Taliban in Afghanistan. It has been now said that it was at the behest of ISI. Now, this is again a point which means that even the Indian nationals outside India are now targets and the ISI is operative. So, how do you take care and reconcile this statement of our neighbouring countries that they are not promoting terrorism and still entering into killings of Indian citizens outside India and also within India?

ֳ֯ן : ִ ֵ

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: Then, about Siachen area, you have said it, but I would say that you should be very specific and categorical about it because that is sending a very strong message to the Armed Forces as well as to the rest of the country about the ambivalence of the Government; that we want to be very clear. And, as regards the Parliament, I am sure that you will abide by that Resolution. I don't say that take action according to the Resolution, but the spirit of the Resolution is to remind the Government, successive Governments, and the country that we believe that the entire Kashmir...(Interruptions) India

ֳ֯ן : כ֮ ֵ

DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI: And, you said that you would be informing the House if you go there. No, I say, you must take the concurrence of the House because it is a Resolution of the House; even an amendment to the spirit of it should not be done by informing the House; it should be done by taking the concurrence of the House.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has not said it.

SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL: I am giving the information to indicate how many infiltrations took place and how many bids were foiled. These are the pieces of information about what is actually happening in a year's time. So, the number indicates that the number of incidents taking place from 2001 to 2006 is going down steadily. The number of security forces killed is also going down. (continued by 4t)


SHRI SHIVRAJ VISHWANATH PATIL (CONTD.): Now, when the number of civilians killed is going down, the number of terrorists killed is also going down. Intention of giving this information was that look the situation is improving. I am giving you in writing the information to indicate different figures to establish that the situation is not deteriorating, but it is improving. It is not the claim of the Government that the situation is totally under control. This is not our stand. So, this has to be in clear terms understood.

The second thing is the question asked by hon. Member Shri Murali Manohar Joshiji was, "Have they spread to other parts of the country"? Well, if they have come inside the country or they are concentrating in certain areas and our information is they want to use improved varieties of explosives and at different places also. So, the different State Governments are also sensitised. But I am not going to make any authentic statement on this. I was on these incidents only in Jammu and Kashmir. Now, about what has happened in Afghanistan and all those things, on the basis of the report in the newspaper, you please don't expect me to give that. Let the External Affairs Ministry get authentic information and talk about it. I do not have any authentic information. I do not want to respond to that kind of information. Sir, as far as the activities of the terrorists are concerned, they are going down in numbers. But, what they are doing is, they are adopting sophisticated weapons; they are adopting grenades; they are adopting car bombs and things like that and that is causing us difficulty. But we shall have to deal with that and we will deal with that. Thank you, Sir.


MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, the discussion on Doda is over. There are messages from Lok Sabha.


(I) The Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2006

(II) Motion for Election to the Joint Committee on Offices of Profit.

SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to report to the House the following messages received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary-General of Lok Sabha.


"In accordance with the provisions of rule 120 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am directed to inform you that Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on the 15th May, 2006, which was passed by Rajya Sabha at its sitting held on the 21st March, 2006."


"I am directed to inform you that Lok Sabha, at its sitting held on Monday, the 15th May, 2006, adopted the following motion:-

"That this House do recommend to Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do elect four members of Rajya Sabha, in accordance with the system of proportional representation by means of single transferable vote, to the Joint Committee on Offices of Profit in the vacancies caused by the retirement of Sarvashri Ram Nath Kovind, Manoj Bhattacharya, K. Rama Mohana Rao from Rajya Sabha and resignation of Prof. Sai-uf-Din Soz, from the membership of the Committee on his appointment as a Minister and do communicate to this House the names of the members so elected by Rajya Sabha to the Joint Committee."


2. I am to request that the concurrence of Rajya Sabha in the said motion, and also the names of the members of Rajya Sabha appointed to the Joint Committee, may be communicated to this House." (Ends)

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up the Spirituous Preparations (Inter-State Trade and Commerce) Control (Repeal) Bill, 2006.





That the Bill to repeal the Spirituous Preparations (Inter-State Trade and Commerce) Control Act, 1955, be taken into consideration.


The question was put and the motion was adopted

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now, we shall take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

Clause 2 was added to the Bill.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: In clause 1, there is one amendment (No. 2) by the Minister.

Clause 1 - Short Title

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Sir, I beg to move:

2. That at page 1, line 3, for the figure "2005", the figure "2006" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

Clause 1, as amended, was added to the Bill.


MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: There is one amendment (No. 1) by the Minister in the Enacting Formula.

Enacting Formula


SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Sir, I beg to move:

1. That at page 1, line 1, for the word "Fifty-sixty", the word "Fifty-seventh" be substituted.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.

The Enacting Formula, as amended, was added to the Bill.

The Title was added to the Bill.

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR: Sir, I beg to move:

That the Bill, as amended, be passed.

The question was put and the motion was adopted.



SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ: It is to be discussed, Sir. The other one was to be passed without discussion, that is why we took it up.

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House adjourns to meet tomorrow at 11.00 a.m.


The House then adjourned at forty-nine minutes past

eight of the clock till eleven of the clock on

Tuesday, the 16th May 2006.